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So what do you think of Lance Armstrong now.

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  • Posted By Maureen Paone on 18 Jan 2013 07:44 AM

    Like someone else said, he seemed more sorry that he got caught.



    I think he pretty much said that later in the interview.  Which was refreshing to hear.

  • I think it just reinforced the issue of perspective ... after all, this is about people riding bicycles fast for entertainment. There are much bigger things in the world.

    Keeping that in mind, (1) I'll keep watching, and (2) Opa's expression when Lance clarified "I did NOT call her fat" was priceless.
  • I will be watching it this weekend as 9:20PM is basically my bedtime (even if my beloved Steelers are playing)... But in the first 20 minutes he totally lied about something simple and obvious when he said he didn't read Tyler's book. It would have been utterly irresponsible of him not to have read that book. I'm sure he would want to know exactly what others were saying about him while he was facing this USADA investigation. If he's gonna continue to lie about the little things, basically means he's not ready to tell the truth about the big things yet (if ever). So any of the other things in the interview that he admitted or denied should also rightfully be in question.

    "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinski..." --Bill Clinton, January 26th, 1998
  • Since I work in the evening and get home around 12ish I wasn't able to watch the interview / confession.
    I did catch quite a lot of his interview on late night news play back. He is quite stone faced matter of fact kind of guy. He didn't cry crocodile tears either, glad he didn't then it would have turned pathetic in my view. Even on the news before they showed clips of his interview the commentator hammered Lance and his character setting up the clip to be displayed.

    Part 2, to follow....
  • Posted By John Withrow on 18 Jan 2013 08:44 AM

    I will be watching it this weekend as 9:20PM is basically my bedtime (even if my beloved Steelers are playing)...



    Yay another Steelers fan!

     

  • He was more candid than I expected and far less contrite than I would have imagined. Yes, he's only sorry he got caught. More importantly, I think he's still lying, especially about not using PEDs in his comback tours. His new story seems to be that he did drugs from the time he was a kid through 2005 but then stopped. And why not? If he can get his lifetime ban reduced to 8 years and started at 2005 when he ostensibly saw the light, then bingo, he's free to compete again starting this summer.
  • Who cares!!!!! Between job, kids and fitting in workouts who has time to focus on Lance Amstrong
  • @ John, soooo how do you really feel image
  • I was unable to watch it on TV as I don't get that channel. Overall it sucks.
  • Do you think he'll announce intention to race in Kona on the Pt II broadcast?
  • What did you want or expect Lance to do in the interview? (and what did you want Oprah to ask that she didn't?)....Making judgements about wether he "meant it" or not is ridiculous...Nobody knows what is in his heart or mind... and to believe the worst only make you cynical...I continue to be a Lance supporter and he did everything I need or wanted him to do thus far in the interview....He apologized, he accepted responsibility for his actions...he cast no dispersions or blame on anyone else....and he has personally begun to reach out to those he has personally harmed....

    Simply put I do not judge Lance so harshly and feel that there are many many many people who are taking a self-righteous stance (nobody in this group) ..and I don't like it I believe they are unrealistic, naive, and certainly not very spiritual...Walk a mile in a mans shoes etc......I am willing to allow a person to make mistakes, repent and try to make good...I'm sorry but without condoning cheating - I have no problem with what Lance did- can see how he did it in the context that he did it in ...and I am willing to accept that he wants to repair that...I believe he has done as much positive and believe he can do more good...only the weak continue to kick a person when they are down....sorry but this is my view....I respect all of you who disagree...but i will continue to support Lances rehabilitation.

     

    ....and I'm certain noone in this group believes his assertion that he raced clean in his comeback attempt?  Do you think he raced clean in his IM debut? (Awesome Debut btw for a guy his age just coming back into the sport...don't forget!)

  • http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/16/cyclist-nicole-cooke-say-exactly-how-is

    Gotta say, this lady has a point:

    Throughout our talk, Armstrong's shadow looms large. She has nothing but contempt for him. I suggest his apology could help clean up the sport, and the world might forgive him. She looks appalled. "He's a criminal. He has stolen people's livelihoods. There must be thousands of clean athletes scrabbling around on the bottom end of the employment structure because that's all that's possible, and he's taken away their career."

    Should he be in jail? "Of course, Lance Armstrong should go to jail. At the moment his punishment is not in line with the crimes he has committed. For the sport to genuinely clean itself up, the punishment has to be severe so not one would even think of doping." Does she think he ever will be? "If he's lied under oath, there should be legal consequences." The worst thing is, she says, he'll be back on the millionaire's merry-go-round, post-Oprah. "They win races, they get paid, they get the fortune. Then if they get caught they admit it, they cry, then they write a book about it and make another fortune. So they win when they take drugs and they win after they're caught. And that is horrendous."
  • At this point, I find it interesting that people are upset that he's not naming names or talking about other people. Isn't this what should happen when someone tries to take responsibility? When one confesses, makes amends, etc., they should be using "I" statements rather than we/they statements. I think pulling other peoples names in just creates a distraction to take the focus off of them. All these other frauds named Armstrong and now we're looking for him to name Ferrari, Bruyneel, etc.

    As far as jail time---are people serious? Why do we want to spend more taxpayer money on Lance by paying for him to eat and sleep? Isn't the entire point of jail to keep people physically safe from those who are dangerous to us? and by dangerous, I mean those that will physically harm us or threaten us with bodily harm/our sense of physical safety. Lance was brutal in his attack on a person's character, but you don't need to go to jail for that. Wouldn't it be much better to make him repay what he owes people by actually getting a job and working? I'm sorry if he hurt the Andreau's feelings and made negative womanly comments about a massage therapist, but if people went to jail for that we better start building a lot more jails. Going to jail for lying to Congress (Marian Jones)---really, politicians are sending people to jail for lying...you've got to be F*%##*ing kidding me. I can see if there was some military secret that threatened our country, but the last I checked EPO and steroids had nothing to do with our countries borders.

    my rant is partially over, but I may return.
  • I wanna know why I could watch the high quality streaming interview on Oprah.com without so much as a hiccup. But WTC can't broadcast any coverage worth a #%^}{#!!!!!!

    There musta been 1000's times the traffic on that network!
  • pro-cyclings-transformation-and-what-the-sport-can-learn-from-tyler-hamilton

    http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderreport/2...-hamilton/

  • Posted By Joseph Lombardi on 18 Jan 2013 03:13 PM

    What did you want or expect Lance to do in the interview? (and what did you want Oprah to ask that she didn't?)....Making judgements about wether he "meant it" or not is ridiculous...Nobody knows what is in his heart or mind... and to believe the worst only make you cynical...I continue to be a Lance supporter and he did everything I need or wanted him to do thus far in the interview....He apologized, he accepted responsibility for his actions...he cast no dispersions or blame on anyone else....and he has personally begun to reach out to those he has personally harmed....

    Simply put I do not judge Lance so harshly and feel that there are many many many people who are taking a self-righteous stance (nobody in this group) ..and I don't like it I believe they are unrealistic, naive, and certainly not very spiritual...Walk a mile in a mans shoes etc......I am willing to allow a person to make mistakes, repent and try to make good...I'm sorry but without condoning cheating - I have no problem with what Lance did- can see how he did it in the context that he did it in ...and I am willing to accept that he wants to repair that...I believe he has done as much positive and believe he can do more good...only the weak continue to kick a person when they are down....sorry but this is my view....I respect all of you who disagree...but i will continue to support Lances rehabilitation.

     

    ....and I'm certain noone in this group believes his assertion that he raced clean in his comeback attempt?  Do you think he raced clean in his IM debut? (Awesome Debut btw for a guy his age just coming back into the sport...don't forget!)

    Since you are asking about our expectations, i expected him to come 100% clean but i don't think he has. The whole thing about donating money to the UCI just stinks. And it was clear when he talked to Betsy Andreu part of the discussion was to keep Nichols out of the press - which I'm sure must piss her offreally bad, here's the guy that called her all kinds of names in the media, then calls her up becasue he's gonna confess things with Oprah, and immediately wants her to keep her mouth shut about certain things? That to me is just disgusting.

  • I dont need to walk in his shoes to understand one thing: personal integrity. Lance Armstrong had choices, unfortunately he made the wrong choices, not once but many times. Could he have stopped at some point? Yes. He didn't and now he is labeled a cheater and a liar amongst other things. HE made those choices and now HE has to live with them. And I'm also not sure about the "spiritual" comment made above. I am a very spiritual person but I'm not sure what that has to do with anything we are talking about here.

    The bottom line is he made lots of mistakes and hopefully the people that matter the most to him have forgiven him and will stand by him.
  •  Suggesting jail time is going off the deep end, just a bit. Jail??? That's nuts. Just don't let him in any of my triathlons and I'll be happy.

    That being said, what do you think Lance, Tyler and Floyd are going to talk about when they are damned to Hell together for all eternity????

  • I don't think jail time would be something because of his doping but because of the bullying. There have been people that received death threats, or who had their reputation or careers destroyed. There's perjury. There is fraud with government money. There is abuse of the legal system. There is bribery. Add it all up, and a jail sentence would not be that unreasonable.
  • Posted By Keith Wick on 18 Jan 2013 04:05 PM

    At this point, I find it interesting that people are upset that he's not naming names or talking about other people. Isn't this what should happen when someone tries to take responsibility? When one confesses, makes amends, etc., they should be using "I" statements rather than we/they statements. I think pulling other peoples names in just creates a distraction to take the focus off of them. All these other frauds named Armstrong and now we're looking for him to name Ferrari, Bruyneel, etc.



    As far as jail time---are people serious? Why do we want to spend more taxpayer money on Lance by paying for him to eat and sleep? Isn't the entire point of jail to keep people physically safe from those who are dangerous to us? and by dangerous, I mean those that will physically harm us or threaten us with bodily harm/our sense of physical safety. Lance was brutal in his attack on a person's character, but you don't need to go to jail for that. Wouldn't it be much better to make him repay what he owes people by actually getting a job and working? I'm sorry if he hurt the Andreau's feelings and made negative womanly comments about a massage therapist, but if people went to jail for that we better start building a lot more jails. Going to jail for lying to Congress (Marian Jones)---really, politicians are sending people to jail for lying...you've got to be F*%##*ing kidding me. I can see if there was some military secret that threatened our country, but the last I checked EPO and steroids had nothing to do with our countries borders.



    my rant is partially over, but I may return.



    Keith, a couple of points...

    Think about it rationally for a second.  What reason, what good, what whatever comes from Lance naming names and all that on Oprah???  As I stated previously, the naming names and all that will come once he goes before the WADA or other "regulators." Nobody gains anything from him being super detailed and specific on Oprah because it doesn't mean anything on Oprah.  It can and will mean something when probably done behind closed doors with WADA or whoever.  Lance has a few aces up his sleeve that he certainly wasn't going to play with Oprah.  It's naive to think otherwise.  As I said, the Lance Confessional Tour is just getting started.

    The going to jail thing is a non-issue which I'll explain more in a response to another poster.

    Marion Jones did not go to prison because she lied (perjured) herself before Congress.  She went to jail because she lied to federal agents (then IRS Agent Jeff Novitsky in CA about the drug use and ICE Agents in NY about a money laundering & counterfeit check scheme involving her shithead ex-boyfriend Tim Montgomery).

  • Posted By Ben Vanmarcke on 18 Jan 2013 08:36 PM

    Add it all up, and a jail sentence would not be that unreasonable.



    Actually, it is completely unreasonable.  There's that whole statute of limitations thing.  So unless Lance killed somebody he isn't getting charged with anything.

  •  A couple more of my own observations concerning the continuing dialogue in here, an excellent one I believe and for the most part, one in which the majority of people are being respectful of other people’s opinions without going on the attack.

    -Part 1 of the interview:  I watched it and was glad that he kept the focus on himself.  When people make mistakes, I am willing to be ‘more’ forgiving if they don’t try to make a whole lot of excuses and don’t try to pull other people down with them.  I did this.  I was wrong.  It was my decision.  So at the end of the day, if LA started at a -100 on Roy’s respect scale, he probably moved back to a -99.  (Didn’t watch part 2 of the interview, while LA may delay the viewing of Gray’s Anatomy with the wife; it is not allowed to impact Friday night family movie night in my house in any way).

    -Is jail appropriate?  Discounting any discussion of whether jail is even possible right now, but from a more philosophical place of, “Is jail an appropriate punishment for the crime?”:  For LA’s personal decision to dope and break the rules of sport, no, I don’t think jail would be appropriate for that.  However, for his lifetime of ruthlessly attacking and trying to destroy the lives of anyone who tried to merely speak the truth?  I wouldn’t mind a jail term in that case.  As an American taxpayer, do I think the only people that should be in prison should be people that pose me physical harm?  No, I don’t.  Does Bernie Maddoff deserve to be in jail?  Yes.  Am I afraid that Bernie Maddoff is going to cause me physical harm?  Not at all.  In large part, I believe the current legal system and its available punishments are appropriate.  Am I pushing/eager for a jail term for LA? No.  But I would like to see appropriate reparations made to all those that LA attacked.  And for me, words are not enough.

    @John, it’s really hard for me to take such an obviously (and admittedly) skewed hypothetical and logically apply it to the real world.  Yes, I understand how someone could reach the decision they did over the course of that very narrowly defined set of circumstances and I totally understand how LA came to the decisions that he made in his career.  Understanding how someone comes to a decision and agreeing with that decision are vastly different things though.  The most far reaching and hardest for me to apply variable in your hypothetical is the “you and your family cease to exist if you can’t succeed in Ironman”.   Living in the real world, I know it’s much harder to succeed in any professional sport than it is to work a ‘real job’, like the majority of us have.  So the position of the athlete having to do this or he and his family don’t live is a fact I have the hardest time putting into the ‘assumptions’ column.  There’s always work, it may not be what you WANT to do, but it is what you CAN do until another opportunity presents itself.  But again, I totally understand the ‘how’ of the decision tree; I just believe that all of the athletes in that scenario are cheaters.  As I asserted in my previous post, mob mentality doesn’t give a person a bye in morality.

    -@Joe, I agree with Maureen.  Personally, I don’t feel I need to walk in a professional athlete’s shoes in order to say that breaking the rules of his chosen profession and spending a lifetime attacking other people that are telling the truth is wrong.

    -Moving forward, I hope that LA assists the “man” in cleaning up cycling.  I hope he comes at it from a process/testing/techniques perspective and not a ‘here’s a list of evil doer’s’ place.  I certainly don’t wish LA and his family any personal misfortune; I merely believe he should be held accountable for the pain and suffering, both emotional and financial, that he inflicted over the course of his career on those people trying to do the right thing.  I was in his corner, was a believer, and defended him right up until George Hincapie told the truth.  It was at that point that I gave into my cynical side.  Do I think LA deserves a LIFETIME ban?  If he truly helps clean up the sport….?  Maybe, maybe not.  Our reigning Olympic road cycling champion is a doper (a fact that I am very unhappy about), but he served his time and came back in accordance with the rules of the game.   I do know that I don’t personally look forward to seeing LA in a race like I once did earlier in 2012.

  • I forgot about the perjury - he did lie in that videotaped deposition, didn't he. I guess Johnny Law will get him on that if so inclined. Me? I would get a kick out of some Team Campagnolo-style justice (remember what they did to Dave in "Breaking Away") out on the bike course. 

    One thing that confuses me is this: how does Floyd Landis get to enrich himself in a federal whistleblower suit, and how on earth does Lance stand to join in on that??????? It strikes me that they kinda lost the chance to be considered whistleblowers when they lied the first or second or billionth time. 

  • Posted By Andrew Morrison on 19 Jan 2013 07:10 AM

    I forgot about the perjury - he did lie in that videotaped deposition, didn't he. I guess Johnny Law will get him on that if so inclined.



    Not possible.  Statute of Limitations ran 2+ years ago.

  •  I need to add nothing to this considered commentary by someone who knows Lance better than most....

     

    www.bicycling.com/news/pro-cycling/frankie-speaks

  • Couple of thoughts here, in the scheme of things WE ALL "cheat", aren't you taking a supplement that states something like "improves lactate removal" or "improve oxygen uptake" or "reduces fatigue" ? how about caffeine? It is actually a banned substance over some amount so I hope you are counting cups of coffee prior to racing. What about 5 Hour Energy - not banned yet, but who knows? Even G2 is putting in stuff that you need replenished artificially so let's ban that also.

    Point here is we are all trying to extend our abilities and we feel great because it is not on a list and now we point to someone like Lance and call him a cheat, at some point most of what he is accused of was not on the list. What I think you cannot take away from this guy is the following: worked harder than anyone else to be prepared, brilliant strategist for the team effort, when faced with comparable athletes (El Pirata, Leipheimer, Landis, Contador, Ullrich) he showed that he was more than prepared.

    Let's face it sports is a job and these guys are no different than anyone. What if you had the opportunity to make $10M/yr if you could just beat you main rival. What would you do? Would you be able to just walk away and say I will not try the "magic"? We can only know the answer when we are faced with the real situation. As far as I am concerned I think all sports are using substances to go to the ultimate level. I accept it, that's it.
  • Butch, now that you have justified cheating how about justifying suing people (and taking the money) when they were telling the truth. Justify firing people for refusing to cheat with you. Justify calling women drunken whores and vindictive liars for telling the truth. Justify destroying reputations and careers when folks refused to support the Big Lie. Lance's athletic ability is entirely beside the point. It is his character that has been tried and found wanting. That is why his interview was a massive failure and he represents the absolute worst in sports. And by the way, I could easily walk away from that $10M.

  • Paul, strong words and feelings sorry to rub you raw.  I sure see your side of things and for sure the legal side says he broke the rules. On your point about ruining folks (i.e. the women comment) Andrieu's wife seems to forget that Frank was there doing it before Lance and in fact was one of the folks there when Lance arrived so I really don't see that Frank has anything to say other than his wife threatened to leave him and so he turned himself in. All the others were also caught in the act and once caught started to deflect to others involved as an escape. 

    That said you points are made and I respect them. PS your comment on $10M is quite interesting hope to meet you someday.

  • Butch, I think Lance is not only a pathological liar, I believe his lawsuit under false pretenses should be considered felony theft. I worry that any defense of him based on the notion that everyone was doing it, is a slippery slope justifying age group cheating. I wonder how many people would sell their wife for $10M ... some for sure, but crossing the line for money is crossing the line whether it is cheating or prostitution. Anyway, we will see how it turns out for Lance over the next 10 years.
  • Based on a few names like Bill Clinton, Kobe Bryant, Ben Roethlisberger, Tiger Woods, Alex Rodriguez, etc, etc, etc I'm guessing Lance Armstrong will be just fine over the next 10 yrs.
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