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John Katsoudas Official Coach Thread

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    Sorry to hear about the challenges on all fronts! I agree, the best thing to do would be for you to regroup, listen to your body, and point towards CDA. You could easily defer. Even in a good year, for a great athletes, Oceanside is a very challenging ask.

    I recommend dropping back to something like the run durability program to stay active for a few weeks as your guide, manage your time to the holidays to produce any damage to your body composition, and then we hit the outseason in January.

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    edited September 24, 2019 3:55PM

    Hi @Coach Patrick . I've been in maintenance mode for several months now due a persistent lower back injury that did not want to go away. I feel like I'm finally getting on top of it so I wanted to check in and re-engage with you and the team. My lower back problems took a LOT longer than I'd hoped to get on top off, and I've ended up taking this entire season off to give it a chance to heal on its own timeline. I've been able to 'train' again with some consistency for the last couple of months and feel like I'm at the point where I'm able to rejoin the team and get back into some sort of structured training plan. I'd love your help in building a season plan targeting 70.3 Santa Rosa on May 9, 2020.

    Thank you so much!

    -John

    Edit: I could also use some admin help with my account. I tried to re-activate my account yesterday and could not find the option for the Team EN membership. I was messaging with Matt but my menu is missing the last option in the list, which is the membership I had before I went Into maintenance mode, and he wasn't sure why. I accidentally re-activated in Coach EN mode, so if you could help get me back into the membership I was in before I went in to maintenance mode that would be awesome!

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    OK, so great to have you back and more than happy to help you out. First, I want to let you know that I fixed your subscription and turned it back to what you were paying before. You will see a series of credits and charges and everything but the system will net itself out so we are good.

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    edited October 26, 2019 2:48PM

    Hey @Coach Patrick quick question... I know you're buried with folks seeking input on training plans right now, so I"ll keep it brief. My "A" race is Santa Rosa 70.3 on May 9, 2020. Do I start the OS in Nov? I'm coming off an extended layoff and am now in RDP2. Things are going great so far and I feel strong and healthy. I'm wondering if I jump into OS or do another month of RDP and then jump into Dec. OS?

    Thanks,

    John

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    Here's your updated Season Plan, as promised. This is where you'll return to post all your "coach" questions as responses; I'll see them and reply. This first post is my best outline of how to proceed with your races, but you can ask any / all questions you want. So post away, know that I reply here usually Monday & Friday each week.


    Power User Tip: Click the Star icon by the Title of this thread to subscribe, and you'll get email updates when I do reply.


    Coach Notes


    Your Races

    • Ironman 70.3 Santa Rosa (2020-05-09) #70.3SR_20   


    Season Update

    These are your recommended training plans, including the date you should start each one (sometimes you won’t complete a full plan but transition to another one). You can change your plans on within Final Surge by clicking on the Training Plans > View My Plans. If you need help manipulating your plans in Final Surge, be sure to check out our Help Site. Remember, you can learn more about each plan and find related plan resources on the Plan Descriptions and Resources page.


    •   Last updated by Coach on October 30, 2019
    • On 9/23/2019  Load the  -- Durability for Triathletes 1 (9 months out) -- 4 weeks to end on  10/20/2019
    • On 10/21/2019 Load the  -- Durability for Triathletes 2 (8 months out) -- 4 weeks to end on  11/17/2019
    • On 11/18/2019 Load the    Durability for Triathletes 3 (7 months out) -- 4 weeks to end on  12/15/2019
    • On 12/16/2019 Load the    Durability for Triathletes 3 (7 months out) -- 4 weeks to end on  1/12/2020
    • On 1/6/2020  Load the    OutSeason (Bike Focus) Plan, 14wks to end on  4/12/2020
    • On 3/9/2020  Load the    EN Half Bike Focused  to end on  05/10/2020
    • On 5/11/2020  Load the    Post Half Iron Transition Plan, All Levels (2wks)  to end on  05/24/202


    Your Notes

    I trained through 2018 and raced 70.3 Coeur d'Alena in June 2018. I then successfully completed RDP 1/2/3 through Dec. 2018, at which time I injured my back and trained only spradically for the next several months. I started training again 'informally in July 2019 and rejoined the team in late September. My back is finally doing much better but much fitness has been lost.I 'trained' for 5-6 hrs/week informally (not following. a set plan but just doing whatever cycling/running I felt like doing) in July - Sep. I'm currently in week 3 of the 12 week RDP plan and I feel that the volume and intensity is totally manageable. I'm layering some core and strength work on top of the RDP plan, and thinking of adding one more cycling day and one more swim day if the next couple of weeks go well. I"m targeting 70.3 Santa Rosa in May 2020 as my next 'A' race. I'm realizing that THE key to my success at the moment is injury avoidance, which mainly consists of doing as much core work as I can squeeze in to keep my lower back happy, as well as smart volume for running (i.e., no consecutive run day streaks) to keep old running injuries from coming back (tendonitis in left foot).


    Let's get to work!


    ~ Coach P

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    Hey @Coach Patrick just a quick check-in from me. everything is going awesome!

    I got through RDP1-3 (and 3 again) in Oct-Dec, and was really happy with the run improvements. My previous PTT injury was just starting to flare up as I hit 6 runs per week at the very end, so I took a one week mental/physical break from training between Christmas and New Years, and then hit the Jan OS hard, feeling fresh and ready to go.

    Jan OS weeks 1-10 went awesome. I just did a bike FTP ramp test yesterday and matched my all-time best of 286. I've also been able to get more or less down to target weight, so at 154# that puts me at ~4.08W/Kg. Super stoked about that. That's road bike FTP, so it's likely ~10W lower on the tri bike (for now).

    I ran the Santa Cruz half marathon last weekend and had a good run, negative-splitting it while pacing with Stryd power, My new CP according to Stryd Powercenter is 264 so now I have a good handle on run power heading into the HIM plan.

    All in all, everything seems to be going along very nicely. I've so far managed to avoid any major injuries, which is the biggest piece of the puzzle for me. I'm looking forward to the next several weeks of training and race day.

    -John

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    @John Katsoudas ZOOM ZOOM! That's awesome...nicely done my friend!

    ~ Coach P

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    Hey @Coach Patrick I'm sure you're inundated with these sorts of questions at the moment, so I apologize for piling on and totally understand that it may take a bit to get back to me. My "A" race for the year (70.3 Santa Rosa) was postponed from May 9 to some undetermined point in the future. We're also on lockdown here in the SF Bay Area for at least several weeks. So I'm trying to come up with a training plan that makes sense and is doable. My best guess for when the race will be rescheduled to would be some time in mid-September. 70.3 Santa Cruz is Sep. 13, so I'll throw a dart and say they'll put 70.3 Santa Rosa on Sep. 20th. That puts it ~26 weeks away, so the obvious answer would be to start over and do a full 14 week OS and then a full 12 week HIM plan. Does that sounds reasonable, or would you recommend something else? I did the Jan OS weeks 1-10 at level 2 for both bike and run before jumping into the HIM plan in March, so I'm thinking this time I'd do the OS at level 3 for both bike and run. Thoughts?

    Of course, this could all change if they announce some other date for the race that's wildly off from this (like doing it on the same day as IMSR on July 25, but I think that also runs the risk of having to be postponed).

    Thanks,

    John

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    @John Katsoudas -- no worries brother, I totally get it. And honestly, it's what I'm here for. On a personal level, it's been really interesting to see how individual athletes are handling the current situation. You definitely learn a great deal about peoples personalities when they face adversity. Of course, adversity on this kind of scale is fairly unprecedented, but still.

    Like the idea of building on the old season that you did earlier, which will allow you to train safely during the lockdown and keep your hours to a minimum. You can flex in two particular ways:

    • Keep one weekend day open for outside stuff. This could be a hike or a bike ride or whatever...just outside and maybe with family. Call this "active recovery" time; it's as much for the mental side of you as the physical.
    • Let's turn the TEST weeks into more aerobic volume weeks. So no tests in Weeks 5 or 10, but you can load up on the bike. If your AVG OS week as 5h biking, the volume weeks would have closer to 8 or 10. Less running on those weeks.

    How does that sound?

    ~ Coach P

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    Hey Coach P. Quick check in:

    I'm going to vent a little bit - but that's what coaches are for, right?!

    I went from being ready to race Santa Rosa 70.3, to re-tooling my training plan for a possibly rescheduled SR 70.3 to... out with another back injury for the last 4 months. Sigh.

    So I find myself trying to get back on the wagon (again) but more than a little frustrated at being back at square 1. I've started Run Durabilty 1 this week, and so far my back seems to be tolerating it OK. It's not pain-free but it's not getting worse so I'll take that as a small win.

    Thanks for listening. I'm assuming RDP1 + core work is what you would prescribe at the moment? If not, I'd love to hear any and all suggestions.

    Thanks,

    John

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    @John Katsoudas UGG. So sorry to hear about your back situation. Was it a freak thing, or did you do something that you shouldn’t have done? Well I don’t have any personal experience with back injuries, for the folks on the team who have them speak to me about the daily rituals they need to follow to stay back healthy.

    if you have a chance, could you share out what it is that you do?

    yes to RDP but depending what you tell me on the back, maybe we can get a little more specific and effective for you.

    Coach P

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    Thanks Coach. The short answer is that no, I can't really put my finger on any one thing I did that triggered this. I'm happy to share thoughts on what I do, but the last 4 months really have me doubting what (if anything) makes a difference. I'd love to hear thoughts from the team so I'll start a forum thread.

    Thanks,

    John

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    @John Katsoudas - saw your post, thanks for sharing it out. Honestly I wish that more people have participated, but folks are not as active online without Races. I know there are a few other people on the team who experienced complications with their back, so I'm hopeful that you can learn more.

    Here are some historical threads that could help...read on!



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    Hi Coach P. Thanks for that. I really appreciate it. Just wanted to give you a quick update. I did meet with an orthopedic/spine specialist last week. We did some x-rays, which revealed what I suspected - moderate/severe degeneration of the L5/S1 disc, which is impinging on the nerves. He ordered an MRI, which is scheduled for next Wednesday. In the meantime, I'm on Alleve twice a day and he also ordered some PT for me to try. His thought is that the likely course of treatment will be that the MRI will confirm the x-ray findings and then he will recommend an epidural injection of cortizone to try to reduce the inflammation and help with the pain. Fingers crossed that this will help. It's been 4 months of near constant pain ranging from annoying to exhausting. At the moment it's closer to annoying so I've been able to execute the first couple of weeks of RDP1 with the only change being to not do the tempo intervals and instead just do a steady TRP run. The Sunday long runs have resulted in a pretty sore back on Mondays but other than that things are OK. I'll give you another update in a week or two, after I have the MRI results and hopefully some relief from the epidural. In the meantime, I'll keep plugging away at RDP1 with core work 3-4x/wk thrown in.

    Thanks,

    John

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    @John Katsoudas - I know that's tough news, but also having some clarity on the situation will help you define what the next steps are. I know of people who had great success with those Cortizone injections, and I am confident you will as well. Often times, just getting things to calm down is the first part of the healing process. Once we get beyond that, you can start doing physical therapy and strengthening or if that will actually make a difference.

    I am standing by to hear more!!!

    ~ Coach P

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    Hey @Coach Patrick I thought I'd check in with an update and a question. I posted an update about my back on the forum here a few weeks ago. Since then I've completed 6 weeks of PT and wrapped up RDP2. I think my PT and I got a little overzealous with the Nordic curls last week and my lower back was really sore for a few days, so I took a break and let it relax for a few days and it's much better now. I reset the training calendar and re-started week 1 of RDP3 this week. I'm planning to do another 6 weeks of PT and see how my back feels at that point. Still not 100% pain-free but it's not really preventing me from doing anything at this point.

    I wanted to check in with you to see what guidance you have on what comes next. It seems funny to be talking about races at this point. The only race I have on the calendar is 70.3 Memphis 2021 (deferral from this year's 70.3 Santa Rosa), which is on Oct. 2, 2021. 50 weeks away.

    So the big question is,.. what do I do for the next 50 weeks? It seems like there are a lot of opportunities... for example, one crazy idea is that I could do a full 14 week OS + 12 week HIM plan, then do an early season DIY 70.3 then do another 12 week HIM plan to prep for Memphis. This would still leave me with enough time to throw in a swim camp and/or bike focus block. RDP3 takes me through Nov. 6, and then I'm a blank sheet of paper from there - yours to do with as you see fit. 😀

    Thanks,

    John

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    Hey @Coach Patrick,

    Quick update - I'm now a couple of weeks into RDP3 and it's going really well so far. I'm able to hit all the time goals, though I'm still not doing much intensity (doing a TRP run instead of tempo, for example). All in all, the running is coming along nicely. Here's a snapshot of the last couple of weeks of training, in case that's helpful:

    I'm now 8 weeks into physical therapy for my back, and it's sort of plateaued in terms of improvement. The pain is a bit better but not really improving and still there most of the time. I had another visit with my doctor today and he recommended doing an epidural injection, which is now scheduled for this Wednesday (10/28). Recovery from that is basically no exercise for 7-10 days post-injection to give the shot the best chance at reducing the inflammation and helping with the pain. I may be able to start some easy swimming and light core work before that, but the easier I go, the better chance I have of getting the best possible outcome from the injection.

    So, in terms of plans... I don't expect to have any limitations on training once I'm past that 7-10 day window. I'd love your input on how to move forward, beginning the week of Nov. 9.

    I'm happy to do a quick call, if you feel that might be helpful.

    Thanks,

    John

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    @John Katsoudas -- Great to talk with you today. Thanks so much for sharing out all that information, as well as for your time. I like to make the most of each of these opportunities to connect so I appreciate you indulging me.

    I've gone ahead and added to run durability blocks to your program through the first week of January. This is when you would start the OutSeason®. I have outlined a very conservative return to running program that I've carried all the way through the entire thing weeks. As tempting as it is to get right back at it, I think there is some value in adding a deliberate build to our schedule.

    Please feel free to give me feedback or if you want to add another session in somewhere you can do it. Please note this follow the traditional weekday versus weekend build that all of our plans do, so you'll need to drag and drop as required. You can go ahead and modify as you see fit and send over to me.

    While I have your attention, here's some good reading on posture and running!

    https://www.runnersworld.com/advanced/a20847674/its-all-in-the-hips/

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