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JOS 2018 Bike Week 1 - How to ride with SWAGger!

scott dinhoferscott dinhofer
in General Training Discussions

sorry for the odd paste, had gotten locked out while writing this ten minutes ago

the best thing of being the bike thread captain this year is getting to write "RIDE ON!!!" every week :smiley:

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  • Edwin CroucherEdwin Croucher
    @Scott Dinhofer, Thanks for taking the lead on the bike forum. I am excited and looking forward to the JOS. You touch on a great point. The Bike WKO's in the OS are set up to make us stronger. We only get stronger by pushing ourselves to an uncomfortable place. The really exciting thing is that what is uncomfortable this week is not quite so much in the following week. So, we raise the bar and keep pushing every week to that same feeling of discomfort. I hope everyone has a health and strong JOS.
  • Gordon CherwoniakGordon Cherwoniak
    edited January 8, 2018 3:44AM
    Apparently I was chomping at the bit to get the JOS started so I did a ride today.  Rather than mess things up I just did with first FTP ride.

    Last week I did two Zwift races and got a 217 and 220 FTP from around 55 minutes of a 3 lap race.  I figure that number is slightly bigger given I held back to get to the finish line and did a sprint for the last 500M or so. 

    Did Tuesday's 3X10 tonight @1.03 (226 & 2 @227 watts).  I'll do a swim tomorrow and then continue to work a day ahead until I think I need a rest day.  

    https://www.strava.com/activities/1346247708/overview 

    Looking forward to pushing it with everyone over the next 14 weeks.
  • Francis PicardFrancis Picard
    Thanks @Scott Dinhofer for starting this ! if we can all ride at least 50% of your power, we are all going to stronger !

    I tested 5-6 weeks ago and my FTP is now 272, last year when I entered JOS I had a FTP of 212. I know power is there, I need to be able to hold it longer and smoother.

    "ride on" ? =)
  • Jeff HornJeff Horn
    The zwift races have already done numbers for my fitness.  Had some bumps in the ole FTP but also can sustain higher heart rates without feeling like Im gonna die. 
  • John CulbersonJohn Culberson
    Glad to have a great crew here in JOS. I just defected to Bike-Focus due to injury. Need to feel my way through the first few weeks... but Zwift has me relatively fit, and I know that my true goal is to raise my FTP slowly for the full 14 weeks. 
  • Leslie SedlakLeslie Sedlak
    If I don't have Power (or Zwift - what the heck is Zwift?) and haven't tested in years, should I just do the ride tomorrow with a heart rate monitor on and start pushing that?  Or do a test tomorrow for my ride?  Full discloser, I haven't been on a bike since my last race last summer and I only got on the bike a handful of time over the summer :(  I have two little kiddos and bike rides (I'm scared of riding in the dark :) ) have just been too hard to come by when I can get a quick run in.  
  • Alicia ChaseAlicia Chase
    edited January 8, 2018 1:08PM
    @Leslie Sedlak Do you have a trainer for your bike? If not, I would highly suggest getting one. Yes, Zwift and powermeters are fun/techie ways to get motivated to ride, but really, a good fluid trainer is all you need, especially if you have young kids and not many opportunities to get outside in daylight for a ride. The Kurt Kinetic Road Machine is a very good trainer—I’m sure others can weigh in with their thoughts. I got mine on eBay (used, new condition) for $200. Start there and just get consistent with riding for the first couple of weeks. Try to just do the time in the saddle if the actual workout looks to be too much. Remember, Level 1 athletes can cut that 150 min weekend ride to 90 min. Keep us posted on your progress.
  • Cheryl TurpinCheryl Turpin
    Where do I find the plan for intermediate bike level for OS...I’m a bit of a techknob
  • Leslie SedlakLeslie Sedlak
    @Alicia Chase I do have a fluid trainer - The Kurt one actually!.  I just hate riding inside - I did 12 weeks of training inside for IM NZ in 2015.....and I've never looked at my trainer the same since :)  I'm good with being on the trainer for OS - esp since my Bike needs the most work.  Isn't it funny how we skimp on the disciplines we need the most help with?!

    I'll find my heart rate monitor and get it working so I can at least start to gauge what my HRs look like.  I was a tech knob for years and then stopped it all, as all I ever did was look at numbers and stopped asking my body how it FELT.  But I'm getting back slowly :)

    Thanks all!
  • JoJo ThirasilpaJoJo Thirasilpa
    @Cheryl Turpin
    All levels are either in a run or bike focussed OS plan.  Once you select either a run or bike focussed plan (see below), you will see that there are three levels of workouts shown - choose the appropriate level. 

    On the Dashboard page, navigate as follows:  Training Plan -> My Plan -> Move/Change Plan -> 2018 Outseason Bike Focused (All Levels) or 2018 Outseason Run Focused (All Levels)

    Have fun!
  • scott dinhoferscott dinhofer
    @Francis Picard & @Jeff Horn - I see lots of interesting Zwift FTP results, I am curious to see what happens when you take those FTPs out for a ride on straightforward uninterrupted steady trainer intervals. I hope you and Francis will curtail some Zwift races for a few weeks and do some of the harder FTP interval sessions at the # that zwift is proclaiming and see how the intervals work out. 

    I am NOT trying to be critical, I am actually very curious to see how those #s hold up against straightforward intervals.. 
  • Cheryl TurpinCheryl Turpin
    JoJo Thirasilpa said:
    @Cheryl Turpin
    All levels are either in a run or bike focussed OS plan.  Once you select either a run or bike focussed plan (see below), you will see that there are three levels of workouts shown - choose the appropriate level. 

    On the Dashboard page, navigate as follows:  Training Plan -> My Plan -> Move/Change Plan -> 2018 Outseason Bike Focused (All Levels) or 2018 Outseason Run Focused (All Levels)

    Have fun!
    Thanks Jojo
  • Gordon CherwoniakGordon Cherwoniak
    edited January 8, 2018 5:02PM
    For those new to EN please follow the plan the OS as written will give you great results on both the bike and run.  Others that are looking for a breakthrough season  have to hack the plans a little. 

    @Scott Dinhofer Not sure how others are doing it @Francis Picard @Jeff Horn but last week I did two 3 lap hill races around 54-56 minutes for both.  Within the race I actually did an old 2X20(2') FTP test.  While I did push the power a little at times to stay with individuals or chase those ahead of me.  I also had a big push (for me) at the end for the line otherwise there were very little surges to stick with a pack.  

    I also had to hold back a little so I believe the FTP number from Zwift is a little bit under reflected for me as I did not use the start of the race as a warm up and I wanted to finish the race with some consistent power which I achieved.  So if I would have pushed that 2' I would have almost had a true 60' FTP number assuming I could have hung on for another 4-6'.  This was totally doable until I sprinted for the line, particularly in the first race. 

    My plan is if I can get in a race then I'll try to keep to the intervals within a race holding the surges.  For me it was great to have someone in front of you to chase.  I had a guy in race one who I chased for almost the whole race and nipped him at the line.  The trouble was actually holding back for the 2' rest period and letting his lead extend.

    The down side for races for me was that I don't think I could sustain that kind of effort and get in the rest of the OS workouts particularly early on as a 2X20 @FTP is a later OS workout.  Yesterday's 3X10 was mentally very easy, I don't believe I worked hard enough.  

    Race 1 AVG HR 158 Max 181 = missed the start of the race on my garmin about an hour of riding so this avg is skewed.  Zwift FTP estimate 217
    Race 2 Avg HR 149 max 172 - Zwift FTP estimate 220
    3X10' avg HR 142 max 158.   I rode 226, 226, 227 for an IF of 1.03 on all intervals.  So I'm thinking I'll need to push this number up more if I want big gains this OS as my HR was relatively low compared to the races.

    So if I had a better engine I'd be doing more Zwift races and as it stands I will sprinkle them in over the OS with the caveats or little surging, push the intervals a little  and perhaps extend the length of the intervals should I be able to get in the down stream run workouts.  I would be particularly aggressive if I was in a bike focus OS and not looking to get a whole lot out of the run side of the OS equation.  I need both so will most likely use the races for a testing situation and may move back to the 2X20'(2') for a little extra work.  

    I know from experience that I can bury myself in the OS particularly with too much ZN5 work or pushing the Zn4 stuff too aggressively multiple days in a row.  

    race 1 https://www.strava.com/activities/1337974243 
    race 2 https://www.strava.com/activities/1337971287 
    3X10' https://www.strava.com/activities/1346247708
  • Jeff HornJeff Horn
    No @Scott DinhoferI think you are exactly right.  As a new ENer and a new Outseasoner I plan to follow the workouts for the first 4-5 weeks and see how they go.  I will then try to incorporate maybe a Tuesday race in place of the FTP sessions.  Probably won't try to interrupt the VO2 sessions as I've never put those into a training plan before.  
  • Al TruscottAl Truscott
    Jeff Horn said:
    No @Scott DinhoferI think you are exactly right.  As a new ENer and a new Outseasoner I plan to follow the workouts for the first 4-5 weeks and see how they go.  I will then try to incorporate maybe a Tuesday race in place of the FTP sessions.  Probably won't try to interrupt the VO2 sessions as I've never put those into a training plan before.  
    Wise plan. Don't be tempted by the antics of the Zwifters on the EN GroupMe thread until you've got this OS thing figured out. Let them be the guinea pigs...
  • Mark StahlkopfMark Stahlkopf

      - As far as I can tell Zwift calculates 95% of your best 20 minute segment to determine your FTP. Training Peaks does the same.

    The program I question is Strava. Calculated FTP is always higher than Zwift & TP. 

  • JohnStarkJohnStark
  • scott dinhoferscott dinhofer
    Mark Stahlkopf said:

      - As far as I can tell Zwift calculates 95% of your best 20 minute segment to determine your FTP. Training Peaks does the same.

    The program I question is Strava. Calculated FTP is always higher than Zwift & TP. 

    funny, as mine is usually pretty close, I also think the Strava 5 hr power is reasonably accurate. I don't trust any "calculated" FTP, the only way to do it is with one of the 2 accepted tests 5/20 or 2x20
    I prefer the 2x20. Every year after AL camp, I've done my thursday FTP wko as 2x20(2) and gotten 3-5 weeks of solidly consistent data to know my FTP... the devil is in the details (and the suffering) 
  • Sabra GonzalezSabra Gonzalez
    Got the JOS started today with FTP test and core work. 

    This week has started a bit "off" because of the threat of ice so they cancelled school today (it just rained). :s    I'll swim tomorrow and then run. Hope to be back on the plan by Wednesday.  Until then, Atlanta is going NUTS for the National Championships.  GO DAWGS!!  
  • Francis PicardFrancis Picard
    Scott Dinhofer said:
    @Francis Picard & @Jeff Horn - I see lots of interesting Zwift FTP results, I am curious to see what happens when you take those FTPs out for a ride on straightforward uninterrupted steady trainer intervals. I hope you and Francis will curtail some Zwift races for a few weeks and do some of the harder FTP interval sessions at the # that zwift is proclaiming and see how the intervals work out. 

    I am NOT trying to be critical, I am actually very curious to see how those #s hold up against straightforward intervals.. 
    @Scott Dinhofer

    I am noway too strong cyclist to hack the bike plan. I'll stick to all the OS wkouts. My only zwift races will be at the beginning or at the end of the weekly long ride.

    I will use Zwift to do the wkouts as I cancelled Trainerroad and dont feel the need for 2 platforms. My last FTP test was a real 20' interval on Zwift. This year I need to try an outside 20' straight interval on the F1 track, I am curious to see the delta between the 2 figures.


  • scott dinhoferscott dinhofer
    @Francis Picard - PLEASE let us know how your FTP that Zwift says you are holds up on the intervals, truly interested in this as I am sure others are as well. I also cancelled trainerRoad...

    Pro tip for those of you trying to get the everest challenge in Zwift and then the Tron bike: do all your WKOs on a hill, use the down arrow to turn around at the top & bottom and do "repeats." remember that you will always be doing the effort chosen by the loaded workout, but you will accumulate huge climbing towards your goal!
  • JoJo ThirasilpaJoJo Thirasilpa
    First OS workouts of the year.  Foolishly underestimated what it was going to be like coming back to the bike after only casual riding since late November...

    3 x 6' at Z4 (1.01, 1.01, 1.02) had me gasping at the end.

    https://www.strava.com/activities/1347917519

    Followed up with 20' TRP run with a few strides.

    https://www.strava.com/activities/1347943821


  • Alicia ChaseAlicia Chase
    @Scott Dinhofer You’re reading my mind! I’m Level 21 and already on the Trek, which is a fast bike. I’m over 1/2 way to the Tron bike, and was thinking I’d do exactly as you described. I’m on a dumb trainer, so my effort is my effort.
  • scott dinhoferscott dinhofer
    edited January 9, 2018 4:05PM
    Rule #10//
    It never gets easier, you just go faster.

    “Training is like fighting with a gorilla. You don’t stop when you’re tired. You stop when the gorilla is tired.” 

    One of the hardest sets I've ever done, no joke. I usually peak at 164ish HR, I was there at the end of the first 10' interval. Interval 3 was a bit choppy as I changed gears for cadence adjustments, but executed in the 164-169 range. 

    I wasn't expecting the gorilla to show his face in WKO #1 of the OS, but he was there and he came to fight, not to watch.. Round 3 was a match, but I won out, I know he'll be back on Thursday!

    3x 10 @ 245, 245, 246. 
    Last year's FTP at end of OS was 248, same as the year before, If I can hold these numbers for a few weeks, It looks like I am starting at a higher point..


    RIDE ON!
  • Leslie SedlakLeslie Sedlak
    edited January 9, 2018 1:39PM
    Are we supposed to be 'accountable' for our bikes during OS?  I see the running and core spreadsheets, but not the bike, which makes sense, just checking.  Trying to jump back in full force so I can take full advantage of all EN has to offer!  I'm getting lost in all of the info!

    First trainer ride in almost three years - DONE!!  and I lasted 60 minutes!
  • Mary RussoMary Russo
    Going to have to find the spreadsheets. Feeling like it’s a new semester and I can’t find my way to classes. Deep breaths and be grateful that we are doing the work, the details will work themselves out. Congrats on the bike work. I am hitting it after work today 
  • Paul CurtinPaul Curtin
    There are two main tracking spreadsheets for the OutSeason.  One is the Heads/Tails tracker.  It's for tracking weight, FTP, and VDOT across the OS.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16O0v9VK7CK7xHALKXS9pA1nClCDBVZ1ocXO7Okb46r0/edit#gid=0

    The second sheet is the run, body comp, and core accountability tracker here:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aVJ2JFnsR3xVMU5GfpwD180bVunfdthad7AcS1vOdqE/edit#gid=0

    I'm tracking with the first sheet, but not the second.  Too much data to enter beyond what I put in TrainingPeaks
  • scott dinhoferscott dinhofer
    Leslie Sedlak said:
    Are we supposed to be 'accountable' for our bikes during OS?  I see the running and core spreadsheets, but not the bike, which makes sense, just checking.  Trying to jump back in full force so I can take full advantage of all EN has to offer!  I'm getting lost in all of the info!

    First trainer ride in almost three years - DONE!!  and I lasted 60 minutes!
    self accountability... or post here in the bike forum, the bike forum is all about sharing the pain, learning how to SWAG, weekly adjustments, getting the advice of MANY Wicket Smaht members that are hanging in the JOS!
  • Mark LaneMark Lane
    Thanks for leading us Scott and Paul!

    Excited for the JOS to get started with the new Outseason Plan.

    3X10' this morning all at .97. Haven't done much threshold work in a while, so I'll need these first couple weeks to get back in the groove. Workout felt pretty hard, HR to 154.

    Didn't get the run in, very icy here this morning.
  • JohnStarkJohnStark
    Bike dun!

    Totally smooth intervals:

    #1 - Hit goal
    #2 - +1 watt
    #3 - +1 watt

    Upwards and onwards.
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