@Markstahlkopf - no better way to set a true FTP, than during a race setting. By the way >300 watts is considered bada$$ territory. When I looked that up in the online Wikipedia, all that is there is a pic of the above......
Your 54' race obviously has a much higher NormPower than your 75' V02 session such that the higher NP was high enough to more that offset the extra 20' of work done in the OS session. For this reason I always like to observe my total TSS at the end of each work out to understand how much total work I really did.
I'm thinking of doing the Tuesday FTP sets as a Zwift race. So for today's 3 x 10 set I will sub in a WBR 4 flat lap race. I could get a 10 minute set in each of the laps.
Anybody else going to try this?
Mark, Zwift racing is a great substitute for FTP work although it may be difficult to get in a 10 minute set each lap in an organized way. The races are more like, as hard as you can go for 5-7 minutes, then as close to FTP as you can ride for the entire rest of the race or until you pop. Makes you faster though, and its amazing how hard you can work you can do chasing those computer guys which you know are fast dudes killing themselves and dishing out the pain from their basements.
Had a great bike last night. Have been doing a bunch in the Zwift leading up to this OS. 3 x 8' @ 240. Was it hard? Yeah, but I wasn't dying. Highest HR was around 155. Hardest part was ERG mode weirdness coming out of my second set...like it was stuck at 240W. Had to stop pedaling for it to get out of ERG mode, then spin back into it. Was very pleased that the WO wasn't worse than anything I've raced in recently.
I have been to lazy since my last HIM to SWAG it. SO I tested last week. For my fourth OS I am starting 8 watts higher then ever. Not too bad.
Battling a UTI and a fever so I am playing it safe this week. Did spin class with moderate effort. Then tried to brick with a short run on the TM. That sucked. HR was sky high. I was a good girl and fueled/hydrated well. Oh well. #dontbeaherothenazero#CPR.
Hardest part was ERG mode weirdness coming out of my second set...like it was stuck at 240W. Had to stop pedaling for it to get out of ERG mode, then spin back into it.
I've noticed a few seconds of extra pain that is noticeably longer (3-8seconds) at the end of every interval. it only seems to be when going from harder to easier perhaps that's what is going on?
I'm dreading the VO2 intervals tonight for this very reason Scott. If you burn up 8 sec of your 20 sec rest interval getting the power down, that does not give you much chance to get set for next one. Can't imagine doing 9 min at 300W. But I guess it'll make me stronger LOL.
One question I have. Does anyone do the 30/30 using ERG mode?? I would think that the smart trainer would take too long to increase/decrease resistance and would really skew the Avg watts for the 30 seconds. I tried it without ERG mode this time. It think next week I may try it with ERG enabled and see how it goes.
Without ERG, it was interesting trying to go from 120% FTP down to 50% FTP. It felt like the bottom dropped out and I was spinning as fast as I could and the Avg Watts just dropped until I could catch up. Not sure if ERG would help with this or not.
Bike #2 done. Mama was SORE from Tuesdays ride! and legs were heavy - but I got it done. I only have a HRM for technology - getting my bike computer (basic cadence, HR, speed). I am willing to 'upgrade' with one new piece of technology this out season - suggestions? I have a Mac computer (can connect to TV), iPad, fluid trainer, hubs has a fancy three sport watch and a GPS bike computer.
I don't have a ton of time to 'learn' so would prefer something with a short learning curve. Most likely, will have to spend workout time fiddling. I only have 75-90 min in the morning to train, and a couple 15 minute chunks during the day. (Home with kids during day, work from home when hubs comes home until I rest my head)
@Shaughn Simmons and @Jason Veith - I've seen folks really struggle with their power taps working on race day - thoughts? I'm not sure I can ask for a $600 price tag (especially since the pedals on my bike currently were a present from hubs a couple years ago......) - but I can ask the hubs - never hurts to ask right? Then use that with Trainer Road?
Going to ease into the OS, and then re-test at Wk5.
@Jorge Duque - I wrote the very first TR workouts for OS many years back. I had a few "just plain wrong" sections. :-) Thank YOU for getting these in place this year. So nice to copy and paste and have them done!
Hi all...William here coming back from the dead. Last year was one of my funnest and most frustrating years in a while. Family obligations kept me out of the ironman game, but I learned to do some bike racing...but I crashed at 35 mph in July and left a fair amount of skin on the ground. Take home lessons: (1) MIPS helmets rock; (2) If you are going to have road rash, choose some place kind of flat that doesn't bend much. Like your side. Or your thigh. Do not choose to lose hunks of skin from your knees. Very bad idea. That injury took way longer to come back from than it should have because I wasn't allowed to bend my knees repeatedly for quite a while. I was doing pretty well again in Fall until late fall I fell ill with something that gave me bronchitis. After fighting that for a month unsuccessfully on my own, I got some medical help and was told I had to go cold turkey no workouts which helped, but I'm still dealing some coughing and recovery. Long and short of it is that I have a pretty good attitude to start, but I'm out of shape, heavier than I should be, and older than I've ever been before. :-)
Reasonable goal for OS: probably ~240 FTP. Dream goal for OS: 250 W. The sad place that I tested at on Monday: 215 W.
As they say, when you're down, there's nowhere to go but up. :-)
@William Jenks - Glad you made it back. Were you racing a crit?
After watching Coach P’s new “Injury Course,” I’m dialing down my intervals to 80% FTP and maintaining consistency while whatever is causing my sciatica comes under control. Hit all 3x10’ at 180w. Every day is an opportunity to make wise decisions to limit recovery time.
2018 Rattle and Hum
Good job! You put on your #BigBoyPants and were smart!
@John Stark Ironically, it was a road race on a straight flat with the wind at our back. Narrow road and a guy next to me didn't know I was there I think...I got caught up as the ping-pong ball between two other riders trying to fight off falling from contact when he tried to move away from the edge of the road. All things considered, I was very lucky. No serious injuries at all except the road rash, and what kept me out of the saddle for longer than a week or two was lost skin on my knees.
Fresh out of maintenance mode and eager to get back to work.
Tuesday's trip to the dentist and subsequent crown and liquid diet for the day pushed my workout to Wednesday. Back is still not 100% and I didn't feel an ftp test would be the best option. This would make the first OS without a starting metric to base my progress on. I swagged my starting ftp down to 235 to see how things would shake out.
3x8' @ 1.05 with a whole lotta work left in the legs. I used the EN workout in Zwift and found it quite different than the usual ERG mode I'm used to. Getting that little gold star in Zwift was the only thing keeping me from swagging up higher during the w/o. 250 may be the sweet spot.
My plan is to push the bike hard this OS. My run is just coming back on line this week from PF, so I won't have the usual run fatigue compounding that from the bike.
Jason Veith - yes. I use ERG mode on the Kickr for all 30/30 VO2 intervals with success. Though I eventually moved them to 60/60 during last year's OS. I haven't tried them on the Doreto yet, but will know this afternoon how it handles them.
30/30 done, but *super* inconsistent. Managed to hit 120% of FTP if I take the average of the average power (no normalised power available - maybe because intervals too short?) across the "on" phases, but range of average power across the "on" phases was from 110% - 138% (!)
Looking forward to opportunities to get more consistent.
Going to ease into the OS, and then re-test at Wk5.
@Jorge Duque - I wrote the very first TR workouts for OS many years back. I had a few "just plain wrong" sections. :-) Thank YOU for getting these in place this year. So nice to copy and paste and have them done!
@JohnStark not following what you are trying to say here. I just said "OS workouts on Zwift are amazing! Thanks to the one who took the time and created the workouts for all"
Don't get your comment "Thank YOU for getting these in place this year. So nice to copy and paste and have them done!". Please explain
First ever OS ride with Zwift. Jury is still out but not sure I like it. WAY too much happening on the screen that is distracting. There is something about the Trainer Road blue bar and yellow squiggly line that makes me feel more focused and in control.
Going to ease into the OS, and then re-test at Wk5.
@Jorge Duque - I wrote the very first TR workouts for OS many years back. I had a few "just plain wrong" sections. :-) Thank YOU for getting these in place this year. So nice to copy and paste and have them done!
@JohnStark not following what you are trying to say here. I just said "OS workouts on Zwift are amazing! Thanks to the one who took the time and created the workouts for all"
Don't get your comment "Thank YOU for getting these in place this year. So nice to copy and paste and have them done!". Please explain
I SWAG'd my FTP because I have not ridden my bike over 10 miles in like 3 years. I picked an FTP from 2012 when I very first started to train with power and plugged it in - tried the Tuesday ride Monday night just to test out the FTP and it seemed too easy - like no real work to hit the threshold, in fact I was over them a bit without trying. I did the full ride Tuesday per plan and was able to again easily overachieve the threshold intervals, and could not get my power down low enough on some of the recovery intervals.
I am thinking of just keeping it here or bumping it up about 5 watts or so and just seeing how the next 4 weeks go then test per plan in week 5 and enjoy the new numbers after a month of consistency.
Since I have not ridden in years - I am feeling the hour workouts this week in my hoo-haa like crazy and am not sure how on earth I am to do 1.5 hours this weekend without major discomfort. Really at 30 minutes I am in a lot of pain and just work my way through it.
What would you do for the long ride if you were starting over again from a base of pretty much nill?
A - Do the 30 minute MS1 and then half of level 1 MS2 (so 30' instead of the Rx'd 60') for a total of an hour then Aim for a little more time next week and build up to non-modified Rx'd workout, or
B - Just suck it up buttercup and do the 1.5 hours
My resolution for 2018 is PATIENCE because I am joining in the OS in the literal worst condition I have been in my triathlon career... and I know that I need to be slow and patient with myself and experience the body and ability I have TODAY - not what I had back when I was last training.
@Jenniferlyn KryvickyIf you have not done any preparatory work for the OS, as a lot of folks are doing now, I think it is very wise to really ease into it. Be as conservative as you feel comfortable with for the bike, then in week 4, hit the test and go from there. As to protecting yourself on longer rides - if you are indoors on the trainer, or even outdoors, why not take periodic butt breaks of 1-5 minutes every 20-40 minutes. And you are using chamois cream, right? Also check the height of your saddle, and emphasize putting more weight on your arms instead even to the point of doing the work on a TT bike?
@Jenniferlyn Kryvicky Do you have new shorts? If you pulled a pair out of the drawer that were a few years old the padding might be a bit disintegrated. Also making sure you have shorts intended for a road bike. I almost bought a pair that were on sale without paying too close attention recently, and the clerk noted that the pair I picked up were more for upright riding on hybrid bikes and that I'd probably be uncomfortable in them in the more forward road bike position. I also went to my trusty local bike shop and tried out a bunch of saddles before settling on the one I have now. It's a very, ahem, personal fit, and what works great for some people might be awful for others.
Great to see everyone's sweet workouts here, some big numbers being thrown down. I'm hacking the bike this season and doing a local cycling class twice a week between now and March, but I'll be with you all for the longer weekend ride!
2 x 9 (-1) 30/30's done
in Zwift on the Doreto. Down one interval from a dropped chain. 1st set - 1.15 -1.30 start to finish
2nd set - 1.18 - 1.32 start to finish
The averages were higher
than I was shooting for, but below the intensity VO2 work should feel for
me. So wishing I could have tested last
week.
I have to agree with @JohnStark that there is a lot going on in Zwift for VO2
work. After the first two sets I had to ignore playing the game and just
focus on hitting the ON intervals. The Doreto has a 4ish second ramp up
period before it stabilizes at the set wattage.
While EN’s VO2 sets can
work in Zwift, I feel ERG mode is much cleaner way to get through them.
@Jenniferlyn KryvickyIf you have not done any preparatory work for the OS, as a lot of folks are doing now, I think it is very wise to really ease into it. Be as conservative as you feel comfortable with for the bike, then in week 4, hit the test and go from there. As to protecting yourself on longer rides - if you are indoors on the trainer, or even outdoors, why not take periodic butt breaks of 1-5 minutes every 20-40 minutes. And you are using chamois cream, right? Also check the height of your saddle, and emphasize putting more weight on your arms instead even to the point of doing the work on a TT bike?
@Jenniferlyn Kryvicky +1 for easing back into it. Be smart. This is 14 weeks. Plenty of time. Believe me, you will be feeling it by week 7 once your FTP is inline. :-)
As far as your "hoo-ha"....I work for a large bike shop in Central Oregon. The hoo-ha issue is real at the beginning but 90+% of our customers get acclimated after a few rides. Since I assume the bike fit hasn't changed since you last rode it and your body comp is roughly the same, the key is the short chamois and if needed, chamois butt'r. Other than that, may be your seat if it has broken down? If so, check you local bike shop and see if they have demo seats you can try out.
@jason_veith I'm doing 30/20s in ERG mode in TrainerRoad on the KICKR. There's a ramp up lag to get to max watts, then ramp down (which is quicker). I was 6-10 watts below the target for the 30s of work, but I don't think I'd be more accurate doing it on my own not in ERG mode...especially toward the end when I was gassed.
Comments
Fantastic group here. Hope to chime in from time to time .....need all your mojo/leadership.
SS
I have a good comparison of a Zwift race vs. OS Week 1 Tuesday ride.
First chart is from a race on Saturday. This race set my FTP in Zwift & Training Peaks at 301 watts based on a 20 minute average x .95.
Second chart shows Week 1 OS Tuesday bike (Zones set at 301FTP):
Some observations:
As the OS progresses & the "on" time gets longer you will need to choose a longer race OR do a "Sullivan".
Your 54' race obviously has a much higher NormPower than your 75' V02 session such that the higher NP was high enough to more that offset the extra 20' of work done in the OS session. For this reason I always like to observe my total TSS at the end of each work out to understand how much total work I really did.
Keep Leading...........
SS
Makes you faster though, and its amazing how hard you can work you can do chasing those computer guys which you know are fast dudes killing themselves and dishing out the pain from their basements.
Battling a UTI and a fever so I am playing it safe this week. Did spin class with moderate effort. Then tried to brick with a short run on the TM. That sucked. HR was sky high. I was a good girl and fueled/hydrated well. Oh well.
#dontbeaherothenazero#CPR.
https://www.strava.com/activities/1351511401
One question I have. Does anyone do the 30/30 using ERG mode?? I would think that the smart trainer would take too long to increase/decrease resistance and would really skew the Avg watts for the 30 seconds. I tried it without ERG mode this time. It think next week I may try it with ERG enabled and see how it goes.
Without ERG, it was interesting trying to go from 120% FTP down to 50% FTP. It felt like the bottom dropped out and I was spinning as fast as I could and the Avg Watts just dropped until I could catch up. Not sure if ERG would help with this or not.
Any suggestions?
- Jason
I don't have a ton of time to 'learn' so would prefer something with a short learning curve. Most likely, will have to spend workout time fiddling. I only have 75-90 min in the morning to train, and a couple 15 minute chunks during the day. (Home with kids during day, work from home when hubs comes home until I rest my head)
Power Meter (suggest PowerTap pedals) will be your highest ROI by far......
SS
If your not opposed to "Factory Reconditioned", PowerTap has one heck of a deal on their P1 pedals.
$629.99
https://www.powertap.com/product/powertap-p1-pedals-reconditioned
Brand new is currently $999.99 for P1 and $599.99 for P1s (single-sided power)
@William Jenks - Glad you made it back. Were you racing a crit?
Good job! You put on your #BigBoyPants and were smart!
@Patrick Large - Welcome, brotha! Now get busy!
Tuesday's trip to the dentist and subsequent crown and liquid diet for the day pushed my workout to Wednesday.
Back is still not 100% and I didn't feel an ftp test would be the best option. This would make the first OS without a starting metric to base my progress on. I swagged my starting ftp down to 235 to see how things would shake out.
3x8' @ 1.05 with a whole lotta work left in the legs.
I used the EN workout in Zwift and found it quite different than the usual ERG mode I'm used to. Getting that little gold star in Zwift was the only thing keeping me from swagging up higher during the w/o. 250 may be the sweet spot.
My plan is to push the bike hard this OS. My run is just coming back on line this week from PF, so I won't have the usual run fatigue compounding that from the bike.
Jason Veith - yes. I use ERG mode on the Kickr for all 30/30 VO2 intervals with success. Though I eventually moved them to 60/60 during last year's OS. I haven't tried them on the Doreto yet, but will know this afternoon how it handles them.
Looking forward to opportunities to get more consistent.
https://www.strava.com/activities/1351220296
2X10X30"(15") 1st set 284-304w, 2nd set 288-317w
Short 20' brick run.
Don't get your comment "Thank YOU for getting these in place this year. So nice to copy and paste and have them done!". Please explain
Maybe I am just old. Who know's?
Would love anyone else's opinion/thoughts.
8x(30/30)
OK JOS Squad I need some help!
I SWAG'd my FTP because I have not ridden my bike over 10 miles in like 3 years. I picked an FTP from 2012 when I very first started to train with power and plugged it in - tried the Tuesday ride Monday night just to test out the FTP and it seemed too easy - like no real work to hit the threshold, in fact I was over them a bit without trying. I did the full ride Tuesday per plan and was able to again easily overachieve the threshold intervals, and could not get my power down low enough on some of the recovery intervals.
I am thinking of just keeping it here or bumping it up about 5 watts or so and just seeing how the next 4 weeks go then test per plan in week 5 and enjoy the new numbers after a month of consistency.
Since I have not ridden in years - I am feeling the hour workouts this week in my hoo-haa like crazy and am not sure how on earth I am to do 1.5 hours this weekend without major discomfort. Really at 30 minutes I am in a lot of pain and just work my way through it.
What would you do for the long ride if you were starting over again from a base of pretty much nill?
A - Do the 30 minute MS1 and then half of level 1 MS2 (so 30' instead of the Rx'd 60') for a total of an hour then Aim for a little more time next week and build up to non-modified Rx'd workout, or
B - Just suck it up buttercup and do the 1.5 hours
My resolution for 2018 is PATIENCE because I am joining in the OS in the literal worst condition I have been in my triathlon career... and I know that I need to be slow and patient with myself and experience the body and ability I have TODAY - not what I had back when I was last training.
Thank you!
Great to see everyone's sweet workouts here, some big numbers being thrown down. I'm hacking the bike this season and doing a local cycling class twice a week between now and March, but I'll be with you all for the longer weekend ride!
2 x 9 (-1) 30/30's done in Zwift on the Doreto. Down one interval from a dropped chain.
1st set - 1.15 -1.30 start to finish
2nd set - 1.18 - 1.32 start to finish
The averages were higher than I was shooting for, but below the intensity VO2 work should feel for me. So wishing I could have tested last week.
I have to agree with @JohnStark that there is a lot going on in Zwift for VO2 work. After the first two sets I had to ignore playing the game and just focus on hitting the ON intervals. The Doreto has a 4ish second ramp up period before it stabilizes at the set wattage.
While EN’s VO2 sets can work in Zwift, I feel ERG mode is much cleaner way to get through them.
As far as your "hoo-ha"....I work for a large bike shop in Central Oregon. The hoo-ha issue is real at the beginning but 90+% of our customers get acclimated after a few rides. Since I assume the bike fit hasn't changed since you last rode it and your body comp is roughly the same, the key is the short chamois and if needed, chamois butt'r. Other than that, may be your seat if it has broken down? If so, check you local bike shop and see if they have demo seats you can try out.
But @Carole Harbison already noted this. :-)
Rock on!