I'll join the fun....have not swum on a regular basis for 18 months (didn't race at all last year). Its going to be ugly......really ugly....but we have to start somewhere and I guess this is the place!!!
This was a scary and interesting test for me. My cycling accident included a spinal cord injury which affected the muscles in my arms only. So my right hand position is altered, and the "snap" at the end of my stroke is about half what it used to be (based on triceps stength measurements). This morning, I went 18:52 for 1000 yds, compared to 17:55 for 1000 METERS last August. The result: I'm about 15% slower than I was before the accident, with minimal swimming in the last six months. For comparison, I was about 10% slower biking and running when I started training 3 months after the accident; after 2 months OS training, that's back to where it was last year this time. A 15% loss will lose me 10 minutes in the IM swim; 5% will lose me 4 minutes. Those 4-10 minutes are a big deal to me, and I'm going to start doing some interval efforts 2x a week to see how much comes back in two months.
At the end of the test, I was not tired at all (that is, not panting for breath), nor were my arms fatigued. But I simply could not swim any faster; some of the neural connections to the muscles are gone, so there are fewer fibers recruited to do the work. More "effort" does not produce any discernible difference; I can't work hard enough to get tired, it seems. I hope a lot of that is just from the lack of work, but I suspect some of it is my "new normal".
I'm in the pool for the first time tomorrow. It's been well over a year since I've really done any swim training. If I don't drown, I'll report in a time or a DNF.
I did the 1000 yd TT after my OS Week 12 run today. I have swam once since IMFL and did a 16:02 (pull) @1:36/100. My last test was 9/8/10 and I did 16:20 @1:38/100. Thanks for the motivation CoachR.
I'm in. Did 2200 yards today, so that makes.. well let's see... 3, carry the 1... yeah..2200 yards since September.
My tracking of swim workouts was pretty spotty last year, but did find a 500y (I think my pool is yards, don't even know that for sure) effort at 8:18 for a shade under 1:40/100y pace on 3/16/2010 and a 1000y at 16:01 for a 1:36 pace on 5/6/2010. Doing IMCDA again this year so this exercise will be a pretty solid comparable vis-a-vis training cycle. At IMCDA last year I was 1:19:XX with 42/37min splits on the two laps. Negative split wasn't due to me burning more matches, was due to starting way wide and too far back... and what I think was more than my fair share of flailing (and zig-zagging like a spazz) in the beginning (1st time). So I think the 1:45 pace on the second lap is probably the appropriate bogey for the 4224y on June 26th
For giggles I just did the math on what the extra 5 minutes meant distance-wise assuming same pace for first lap as second lap at IMCDA... an extra 285 yards... maybe knock 85 or so of those yards for slower pace in the washing machine in the beginning... Must have swam in S-patterns to get from way wide into the buoys (which I didn't get to until haolfway back to the beach)...
I'll give it a shot. I also have to find the suit and goggles :-)
HA HA HA! Yeah, me too! I gotta put an order in to Swim Outlet for a new suit first. I hopped in the water just once after IMWI in September and realized the straps had pretty much dry rotted in the months they hung on that hook on the back of the closet door.
I'm in, it will be interesting to see how my 1000TT goes compared to the one I did just before IMWI. Just let me get the suit ordered or I'll be kicked out of the YMCA for pulling a Mardi Gras bead flashing routine for the boyz in the next lane
I think I'm going to get this done at the Rose Bowl at lunch tomorrow: easy spin there, swim TT, do my interval run, ride home. Just like I'm a real triathlete and stuff!!
More importantly...I can buy a suit and goggles at the store in the lobby
Dang, dude!!!! That was a tough 1000m TT. I was so tired towards the end, my stroke was completely falling apart and had to really insert some kicking so I could make it the whole way. 2nd swim since September.....we'll see what time I'll bring in April and May.
Okay, I'm in. I haven't swam since September, but it may be the only opportunity during the outseason where I feel (relatively) competent. Some pretty solid times on the board already, this "no swim" swim training must be working.
OK, didn't make the 1000k. Ended up stopping at 7:26 as I was tired, starting to have really bad form and getting sick to my stomach. I thought I had done 500 yds, but that would put me at 1:30/100, which is too fast I think. So maybe it was 450 yds. Either way, I'll be interested to see if I can do a 1000 next week after a few more days in the pool.
Ok, decided to play this morning. First swim in over 6 months was last Friday. Second was today. 400 yard warm up and then the 1000 yard TT. Didn't push as hard as I will in a few weeks time as didn't want to risk ripping apart my previously surgically rebuilt shoulder. Bored out of my mind, thought drifted and thought I may have lost count of laps. 18' flat. Not sure if I did 1000 (1:48/100 pace) or 1050 (1:42/100 pace) as when I lost count I went with the distance I last remebered (conservative number). Guessing that after 6 months out of water it was 1:48/100. No worries here. Having done the "no swim in the O/S" thing twice now I'm confident that over the next month the pace will drop like a rock. Will never be as speedy as many of you but should be able to get it down toward 1:40.
Ok, decided to play this morning. First swim in over 6 months was last Friday. Second was today. 400 yard warm up and then the 1000 yard TT. Didn't push as hard as I will in a few weeks time as didn't want to risk ripping apart my previously surgically rebuilt shoulder. Bored out of my mind, thought drifted and thought I may have lost count of laps. 18' flat. Not sure if I did 1000 (1:48/100 pace) or 1050 (1:42/100 pace) as when I lost count I went with the distance I last remebered (conservative number). Guessing that after 6 months out of water it was 1:48/100. No worries here. Having done the "no swim in the O/S" thing twice now I'm confident that over the next month the pace will drop like a rock. Will never be as speedy as many of you but should be able to get it down toward 1:40.
Hey Aaron- just curious, how does the 1:48 pace compare to your pace 6 months ago? Any idea?
I'm in...1050 yards (sort of lost count...lady moved my rings when she got in the lane next to me) in 18 minutes flat...so somewhere between 1:42-1:48/100 I will have to look, but I think that is faster than I swam when I got out of the water at my last race...I love this plan!!!
Great to see so many people playing! Be sure to enter your results in the spreadsheet (see first post in this thread) so we can collect these and add some hard data to the actual results/effects/whatever of little to no-swimming in the OS. Thanks!
Ok, decided to play this morning. First swim in over 6 months was last Friday. Second was today. 400 yard warm up and then the 1000 yard TT. Didn't push as hard as I will in a few weeks time as didn't want to risk ripping apart my previously surgically rebuilt shoulder. Bored out of my mind, thought drifted and thought I may have lost count of laps. 18' flat. Not sure if I did 1000 (1:48/100 pace) or 1050 (1:42/100 pace) as when I lost count I went with the distance I last remebered (conservative number). Guessing that after 6 months out of water it was 1:48/100. No worries here. Having done the "no swim in the O/S" thing twice now I'm confident that over the next month the pace will drop like a rock. Will never be as speedy as many of you but should be able to get it down toward 1:40.
Hey Aaron- just curious, how does the 1:48 pace compare to your pace 6 months ago? Any idea?
Took some digging. My log isn't very easy to search for this stuff. I don't have many TT type efforts last year due to the car accident messing up my summer's training and racing. Pre-car accident it looks like I was swimming 1:43/100 for ~2200 yard endurance type swims. Post car accident I raced a sprint and swam 880 yards @ 1:43/100 pace.
FWIW, as a testimonial. I was sold on this approach back in 2009. In my build up to IMLP 2007 I swam all O/S, 3x a week, at a volume of 7000-8000 yards a week. IMLP swim time that year 1:15:55 (1:48/100 pace). 2009 I took O/S off of all swimming, resuming in Feb. IMLP swim that year 1:14:22 (1:46/100). Obviously, some of improvement could've been execution but I certainly wasn't any slower from not swimming in the O/S. Plus saved my shoulder / rotator cuff which had been previously trashed in 2007.
Just updated the spreadsheet...Did an Oly in August of 2010 with a time of 35:34. I had only been swimming laps since March of that year. Just did a 1,000M TT with a time of 17:13. T-Pace of 1:43Y
A couple of observations.
1. Since I am such a new swimmer I have lots of gains to be made. I honestly think I gained some time per 100yards just by reading the swim eBook. I also did several of the drills that Patrick shows in the book.
2. I got good at taking tests this winter on the bike and for the run during my OS...As a result, I know my swim time will improve by me getting better and pushing hard for the entire 20 lap effort.
Overall, I am pretty excited about my results...This was my third time in the pool since October. I feel like my form is way better due to hand entry at 10 and 2. Took lots of stress away from my shoulders..
Question: Can someone give me an idea of what a 1:43 T pace means. Is this like running a 10 min mile, 9min mile, etc...Does a T Pace of x usually result in a Ironman time of Y?
Just updated the spreadsheet...Did an Oly in August of 2010 with a time of 35:34. I had only been swimming laps since March of that year. Just did a 1,000M TT with a time of 17:13. T-Pace of 1:43Y
A couple of observations.
1. Since I am such a new swimmer I have lots of gains to be made. I honestly think I gained some time per 100yards just by reading the swim eBook. I also did several of the drills that Patrick shows in the book.
2. I got good at taking tests this winter on the bike and for the run during my OS...As a result, I know my swim time will improve by me getting better and pushing hard for the entire 20 lap effort.
Overall, I am pretty excited about my results...This was my third time in the pool since October. I feel like my form is way better due to hand entry at 10 and 2. Took lots of stress away from my shoulders..
Question: Can someone give me an idea of what a 1:43 T pace means. Is this like running a 10 min mile, 9min mile, etc...Does a T Pace of x usually result in a Ironman time of Y?
Nate, using my handy TriCalc for my iPhone that would equate to 1:12:30 for an IM. That would be pretty good especially for a new swimmer IMHO.
@Al, my mistake...the oly was in 1500 meters so as you said, it should be 2:22/100 meters, time was 35:34. Last night TT was 1,000 yards in 17:13. Data tool says that's a T-pace of 1:43/100 Yards or 1:53/100 M. My swim coach has been RnP...the good thing about not being good at something is that gains come pretty easy. I think that I'm also in much better shape now then I was back in August training on my own without EN. @Tucker, thanks for the info. 1:12 Seems a little fast but maybe i'm a better swimmer than I give myself credit for.
I haven't had a chance to get to the pool yet and I'll probably have to use Mapquest to find it, been so long . And the RBAC is ~$15 per swim, can't justify monthly....new suit is about $25, goggles for ~$15, and I'd need to put gas in my truck to make it there, and the water might be cold and I don't have a tan so I might blind someone, and the dog ate my homework, and, and....
I haven't had a chance to get to the pool yet and I'll probably have to use Mapquest to find it, been so long . And the RBAC is ~$15 per swim, can't justify monthly....new suit is about $25, goggles for ~$15, and I'd need to put gas in my truck to make it there, and the water might be cold and I don't have a tan so I might blind someone, and the dog ate my homework, and, and....
I know what it is; you just don't want to embarrass us. Go ahead and post up your 12:50. We can handle it.
I haven't had a chance to get to the pool yet and I'll probably have to use Mapquest to find it, been so long . And the RBAC is ~$15 per swim, can't justify monthly....new suit is about $25, goggles for ~$15, and I'd need to put gas in my truck to make it there, and the water might be cold and I don't have a tan so I might blind someone, and the dog ate my homework, and, and....
I know what it is; you just don't want to embarrass us. Go ahead and post up your 12:50. We can handle it.
Actually, I kinda laugh when y'all post up that you haven't swim since October or something . My recent history:
IMCDA'08, 2.4mi swim
I think I did a swim clinic in August '08 and demo'd maybe 200yds of drills.
2009: zero. Showers or a bath once a month, whether I needed it or not, etc
2010: swam maybe 4x in March, I think, when I was getting my P90X on in preparation for the Pink Speedo Debacle in Sept...I stopped swimming
Comments
This was a scary and interesting test for me. My cycling accident included a spinal cord injury which affected the muscles in my arms only. So my right hand position is altered, and the "snap" at the end of my stroke is about half what it used to be (based on triceps stength measurements). This morning, I went 18:52 for 1000 yds, compared to 17:55 for 1000 METERS last August. The result: I'm about 15% slower than I was before the accident, with minimal swimming in the last six months. For comparison, I was about 10% slower biking and running when I started training 3 months after the accident; after 2 months OS training, that's back to where it was last year this time. A 15% loss will lose me 10 minutes in the IM swim; 5% will lose me 4 minutes. Those 4-10 minutes are a big deal to me, and I'm going to start doing some interval efforts 2x a week to see how much comes back in two months.
At the end of the test, I was not tired at all (that is, not panting for breath), nor were my arms fatigued. But I simply could not swim any faster; some of the neural connections to the muscles are gone, so there are fewer fibers recruited to do the work. More "effort" does not produce any discernible difference; I can't work hard enough to get tired, it seems. I hope a lot of that is just from the lack of work, but I suspect some of it is my "new normal".
I did the 1000 yd TT after my OS Week 12 run today. I have swam once since IMFL and did a 16:02 (pull) @1:36/100. My last test was 9/8/10 and I did 16:20 @1:38/100. Thanks for the motivation CoachR.
Cheater.
My tracking of swim workouts was pretty spotty last year, but did find a 500y (I think my pool is yards, don't even know that for sure) effort at 8:18 for a shade under 1:40/100y pace on 3/16/2010 and a 1000y at 16:01 for a 1:36 pace on 5/6/2010. Doing IMCDA again this year so this exercise will be a pretty solid comparable vis-a-vis training cycle. At IMCDA last year I was 1:19:XX with 42/37min splits on the two laps. Negative split wasn't due to me burning more matches, was due to starting way wide and too far back... and what I think was more than my fair share of flailing (and zig-zagging like a spazz) in the beginning (1st time). So I think the 1:45 pace on the second lap is probably the appropriate bogey for the 4224y on June 26th
For giggles I just did the math on what the extra 5 minutes meant distance-wise assuming same pace for first lap as second lap at IMCDA... an extra 285 yards... maybe knock 85 or so of those yards for slower pace in the washing machine in the beginning... Must have swam in S-patterns to get from way wide into the buoys (which I didn't get to until haolfway back to the beach)...
Did a 1000 yd TT yesterday - 1:46 / 100 yd!! SLOW!!
HA HA HA! Yeah, me too! I gotta put an order in to Swim Outlet for a new suit first. I hopped in the water just once after IMWI in September and realized the straps had pretty much dry rotted in the months they hung on that hook on the back of the closet door.
I'm in, it will be interesting to see how my 1000TT goes compared to the one I did just before IMWI. Just let me get the suit ordered or I'll be kicked out of the YMCA for pulling a Mardi Gras bead flashing routine for the boyz in the next lane
around here that will put you father up in the pack than you would think...look at the IM times spreadsheets.
I think I'm going to get this done at the Rose Bowl at lunch tomorrow: easy spin there, swim TT, do my interval run, ride home. Just like I'm a real triathlete and stuff!!
More importantly...I can buy a suit and goggles at the store in the lobby
Okay, I'm in. I haven't swam since September, but it may be the only opportunity during the outseason where I feel (relatively) competent. Some pretty solid times on the board already, this "no swim" swim training must be working.
Starbux reload for you under 13:00!
Will be meters. I'm betting I can pull...1:32 pace = 15:20. I'd be happy to go under 15:30. 16:00+ will suck.
Hey Aaron- just curious, how does the 1:48 pace compare to your pace 6 months ago? Any idea?
OK, coach -- you're on. Reload under 15:00!! Now go get it.
I will have to look, but I think that is faster than I swam when I got out of the water at my last race...I love this plan!!!
14:27 and despite my reluctance, I have stayed with the OS no-swimming protocol.
I think my 2010 PR was 13:57.
Great to see so many people playing! Be sure to enter your results in the spreadsheet (see first post in this thread) so we can collect these and add some hard data to the actual results/effects/whatever of little to no-swimming in the OS. Thanks!
Took some digging. My log isn't very easy to search for this stuff. I don't have many TT type efforts last year due to the car accident messing up my summer's training and racing. Pre-car accident it looks like I was swimming 1:43/100 for ~2200 yard endurance type swims. Post car accident I raced a sprint and swam 880 yards @ 1:43/100 pace.
FWIW, as a testimonial. I was sold on this approach back in 2009. In my build up to IMLP 2007 I swam all O/S, 3x a week, at a volume of 7000-8000 yards a week. IMLP swim time that year 1:15:55 (1:48/100 pace). 2009 I took O/S off of all swimming, resuming in Feb. IMLP swim that year 1:14:22 (1:46/100). Obviously, some of improvement could've been execution but I certainly wasn't any slower from not swimming in the O/S. Plus saved my shoulder / rotator cuff which had been previously trashed in 2007.
Just updated the spreadsheet...Did an Oly in August of 2010 with a time of 35:34. I had only been swimming laps since March of that year. Just did a 1,000M TT with a time of 17:13. T-Pace of 1:43Y
A couple of observations.
1. Since I am such a new swimmer I have lots of gains to be made. I honestly think I gained some time per 100yards just by reading the swim eBook. I also did several of the drills that Patrick shows in the book.
2. I got good at taking tests this winter on the bike and for the run during my OS...As a result, I know my swim time will improve by me getting better and pushing hard for the entire 20 lap effort.
Overall, I am pretty excited about my results...This was my third time in the pool since October. I feel like my form is way better due to hand entry at 10 and 2. Took lots of stress away from my shoulders..
Question: Can someone give me an idea of what a 1:43 T pace means. Is this like running a 10 min mile, 9min mile, etc...Does a T Pace of x usually result in a Ironman time of Y?
Nate, using my handy TriCalc for my iPhone that would equate to 1:12:30 for an IM. That would be pretty good especially for a new swimmer IMHO.
@Nate - something doesn't compute across the three numbers you gave:
35:34 for 1500 meters >> 2:09/100 yds or 2:22/100 meters.
17:12 for 1000 meters >> 1:43/100 meters; or was this for 100 yds?
1:43/100 yds pace Did you mean meters?
If your time last year was for an HIM (1900 meters at a 1:52/100 meters) and your TT this month was in meters, that would make some sense OR
If your time for the Oly in August was actually 25:34 (1:42/100 meters), and you just did 1000 meters in 17:12, that would also make sense.
Otherwise, I want to fly your swim coach into my pool for a quick session so I can drop 40 seconds/100 meters without training.
My swim coach has been RnP...the good thing about not being good at something is that gains come pretty easy. I think that I'm also in much better shape now then I was back in August training on my own without EN.
@Tucker, thanks for the info. 1:12 Seems a little fast but maybe i'm a better swimmer than I give myself credit for.
I haven't had a chance to get to the pool yet and I'll probably have to use Mapquest to find it, been so long
. And the RBAC is ~$15 per swim, can't justify monthly....new suit is about $25, goggles for ~$15, and I'd need to put gas in my truck to make it there, and the water might be cold and I don't have a tan so I might blind someone, and the dog ate my homework, and, and....
I know what it is; you just don't want to embarrass us. Go ahead and post up your 12:50. We can handle it.
Actually, I kinda laugh when y'all post up that you haven't swim since October or something
. My recent history:
Gonna suck though and I will be sore, fo' sho'