the end of the OutSeason® is in sight! So exciting! Congratulations on another year done...
I personally prefer to test with your same out season set up. I would rather that you capture the games of the winter; before you head outside and make a transition. There will absolutely be some friction there and you'll probably lose a few watts as you reorient yourself to the tribike. To keep things fair, I say that you would test the outdoor tribike after about four weeks of consistent writing on it. That will give you enough time to settle in and internally determine an appropriate effort which you can ride… And that will yield the right FTP number. Make sense?
It was great seeing you at Quassy! Thanks for the support. Two things. First, to follow up on my last Micro post. I followed your advice and tested at the end of OS on the road bike on the trainer...FTP was 260; about a 13% increase. Then I switched to riding my tri bike and several weeks later (last week) I tested outside on my tri bike, FTP is 250.
Second, I'm in week 9 of advance IM training for IM Chattanooga and want to boost my bike fitness. I was thinking about adding a VO2 type workout (4-5x5'@110%) on Tuesdays for the next four weeks. My run is solid (just ran a 5K PR/19:31 today) and think I can afford to replace the Tuesday 2x1 miles with a 45'-60' TRP run. I'd do my Thurs LR on Wed and the Wed bike/run wko on Thursday. After 4 weeks I'd revert back to the normal schedule. Another thought is to do a 4-day big bike week next Thursday thru Sunday as 60/80/80/100 miles. Are there other options to gain bike fitness? Sticking with the plan is always an option but I feel I have the mental and physical capacity to do more work these next few weeks. I'll continue monitoring my fatigue and back off if needed. What are your thoughts? Thanks.
DS, same, always good to see you crushing it!!! I think your FTP zones are great (tri bike is always a bit lower)...and I like your "hack" proposal. My concern is I don't know know how much you'll have in your legs after the wednesday long run. It will be split, which is better, but still not ideal.
Just thinking outside the box here...what if you split the Wed long run as Tues PM / Wed AM. So..
Tue = planned FTP in AM (but no brick run). Then PM is part 1 of long run. Wed = AM of second half of long run, option to swim on Wed PM (making that up!). Thu = VO2 Ride, optional brick
That sounds great! I like the idea of splitting the long run over Tues PM & Wed AM and I'm already doing OWS Wednesdays evenings. This is very doable and still allows 6 days of running and 3 swimming.
Can I get your input of altering my training week? This past Friday/Saturday (Week 16 EN IM Adv plan for IM Chatt) I had to go out of town so I moved Saturday's 4400 yd swim to Friday and completed Friday's run. On Saturday, I could only run while out of town and did 6 miles. Sunday I did the 5 hr bike (actually 5:50) and 40 min brick run. Essentially, I only missed the Sunday ABP ride. Should I do the ABP ride Monday or some other bike workout or just stick to the plan, which is a swim.
Also, since I might have to go out of town again this coming Friday/Saturday, is there a better way to adjust the training from what I did this past weekend?
One last question, over this past week it felt like I've had a boost in my bike fitness. This is based on last Wednesday's FTP workout on tired legs (2x20') at .94 and .97 (this was after Camp week). Then today's 5:50 ride, 8x25'(5), was done between .84 and .87, which is a first! Then 60' at .75. Felt really good the entire ride, which had ~5,400 feet elevation. I'm usually at .80 and the last 2-3 are at .75. on these 5 hr rides. Should I work in a FTP test? (again, I'm going into week 17) or base my goal race day watts on my 6x 100+ mile rides and upcoming RR? I do realize the FTP test could be less than accurate due to cumulative fatigue, so it might be best to stick with 250.
Derrick, way to get it done! No need to do the ABP..onwards with the rest of your training. If you are doing this all over, my edits would be:
Mon - As Planned Tue - Bike/run from Wed Wed - Swim/run from Tues Thu - ABP ride up to 90' Fri - Long Run Sat - Recover / yoga / stretch Sun - Long Ride (From Sat)
That's great news on the bike. I'd rather you use your 5hr power as a target vs an FTP test for race zones. Let's pick a number to target soon (power and HR) so you can start training too it and seeing if you think it's right!!
Regarding 5 hr power and HR, TP only gives me 3 hr power and my HR varies by 10-15 bpm based on temps and humidity. So far my HR plan is to start in the mid to low 120 bpm and build to mid 130s and avoid 140+ but if it's a hot day I'll add 5-8 bpm to these numbers. I'm thinking for power, first 30' at .65 IF, first loop at .70 and build to .75 on the second loop, if I'm feeling it; otherwise stay at .70. Is there guidance on how to know if these watts are too low? Thanks, Derrek
Derrek, the only relevant guidance for those watts (now) is your 5 hour rides...if your NP over a 5 hour ride is 70%, then go for it!!!! Side note we don't recommend aiming for lower than 68% all day...(cumulative, starting smarting is ok).
Your early goal is the HR. Should take you 15 to 25' to get it down, and you need to get it down before the false flat section. Once your HR flashes a 12X number, then you can get to work at your 70%....yes to an HR cap on those hills...gotta be smart. And eat drink well please!
No need to go 75% in lap two..your body craves steady...so prove a full ride at 70% with a good run and then we can talk!
I need some guidance for OS and no running. ?? After 7 years of triathlon, I have my first significant injury. Totally out of the blue, I strained my left lower hamstring while on the treadmill last Friday. I took off from running for 6 days and this morning tried a slow jog, but it's still strained/pulled. Fortunately, biking and swimming doesn't impact it. I'm wondering how should I structure my OS weeks (I'm in NOS Wk 8) with no running. Is this a good time to focus more on the bike? Get in a bike or workout on Sundays and/or Wednesdays. My bike fitness/FTP needs the most improvement.
I just read the OutSeason Run Jail page in the Wiki and believe that answered my questions. Bike Tu/Th/Sa/Su with Su being a repeat of Thursday or 60'-70' ABP. I'll also swim on Wednesday and 1 or 2 other days. Let me know if you have other thoughts. Thanks!
That's it! You are my hero...in the meantime you need to rest it and get back to health. What's your plan for that?
Note the treadmill is really not hamstring friendly, especially at incline. So let's be careful to try more "real" running (LIGHTLY!) as you start your return injury.
Coach, I totally blame the treadmill! That was my 3rd TM run of the week (T,Th,F) with Wednesday's long run being outside. In years past I would only do 3-5 TM runs the entire winter. I'm stretching my hamstrings 1-3 times a day and foam rolling once a day and using a lacrosse ball to massage it. After the initial pull, I didn't run for 6 days and when I tried a slow jog, it slightly pulled again after .5 miles. Now I'm at day 6 again (from the second pull) and haven't felt any tightness for 3 days. I don't know how to tell if it's ready for a light run or not. Any suggestions on how to tell if it's ready and how to ease back into running?
I am not sure where you are right now, but I generally recommend that you try and intermediary modality before you return to straight running. So this will be something like the elliptical or the stair climber. Something to give you the aerobicWorkload and new mix the running motion. We want to put your hamstring under some light strain but without the dynamic elements of true running.
I just watched your webcast on the Big Bike Week...great stuff. I'm doing an organized ride May 5 and 6, which is 109 miles/6,000+ ft elevation each day and after watching the webcast I'm thinking why not make this a big bike week. My details: I completed Nov OS with a 52 VDOT and 276 FTP. Currently, I'm in week 6 of the Get Faster Advance Plan; on April 24 I'll load up the HIM plan (starting at week 14) ending on Jun 11 for Eagleman 70.3. My BBW would happen in Week 15. I'm also planning (not signed up yet) a sprint and/or olympic ("C" race) the following weekend, May 13/14).
I was thinking of the below BBW schedule:
Monday: Bike 40-50 miles (swim before bike) Tuesday: Swim and Easy Run 40' - 50' at Z1-TRP Wednesday: Bike 50-60 miles / Run 40' - 50' at Z1-TRP Friday: Bike 109 miles / 30 min Run at TRP Sat: Bike 109 miles Sunday: Swim or Complete Rest Monday: ?? Swim/Rest Tuesday: ?? Run 30' - 40' at Z1-TRP Wednesday: ?? Bike 30' - 60' easy spin or EN workout at reduced intensity Thursday: Back on HIM plan
Please let me your thoughts...recommended S/B/R schedule. I'm not sure if this is too much/little with my 70.3 five weeks after the BBW. Friday and Saturday rides are set, other days of the week are flexible.
@Derrek Sanks - please tell the Team about your weekend rides...someone might want to join you (maybe on the dashboard?). I really like how you're using this event to reverse engineer a big bike week. It's fantastic. Here are my thoughts:
Monday: Swim, then Bike 40 miles Tuesday: Swim and Easy Run 40' at Z1-TRP Wednesday: Bike 60 miles / Run 40' at Z1-TRP Thursday: OFF / Stretch, etc. (or move run from Wednesday here) Friday: Bike 109 miles / 30 min Run at TRP Sat: Bike 109 miles Sunday: Swim / Pull to facilitate recovery. Monday: OFF / REST Tuesday: Run 40' at Z1-TRP, no real goals. Wednesday: Bike 60' easy spin / aerobic. Thursday: Long Run as planned, back on the plan.
That gets you 318 miles in a week (note Thursday to make it manageable) with three swims and just under two hours of running, epic!
Just remember that we want you to paste those rides appropriately so you're always strong finish. There's no such thing as starting with a pacing goal right at the start.... Easy and build from there.
@Derrek Sanks - you got it! These blocks are sneaky...you think you've "got it" until Day Three when you find yourself uncontrollably sobbing after hour one. Note, that has never happened to me!
@Derrek Sanks - new year, new workouts! I'm glad someone noticed!!! Yes, after your "work" portion, all that extra time is TRP. Nothing flashy there, just extending "the burn" you started in the first 90. And it will burn.
Dang! That is going to burn...more mentally than physically...I hate you!! Just kidding...I'll be thanking you after race day. :-)
On another topic... Looking a couple weeks ahead, again HIM Advance Week 17, I'm going to be out of town that weekend Saturday and Sunday with only access to running. How can I best restructure that week? Thanks.
@Derrek Sanks - I think you'll find a way to not only survive, but to thrive there as well!
Re week 17, I am not too worried about it as the focus of that week is your RR Run. So you can either do the week as planned...and chill on the weekend.... OR....
Since I'm leaving Friday and returning Saturday, I decided to stick with the original EN schedule for this week. So the RR Run will be Thursday and RR Swim Friday AM, before leaving. Then Sunday I plan to ride the Eagleman course doing the ABP ride. How does that sound.
Secondly, I'm concerned about my bike fitness going into Eagleman (my A race) and wanted to get your take/advice. Recent background. NOS Adv was very successful; FTP went from 234 to 276. Then 3 days after the last FTP test, I did the Sufferfest 9 day tour. Then swim camp for 2 weeks, then GF Adv, 10 weeks. For GF I switched to my TT bike and lowered my FTP to 266. A few weeks later I did a FTP test resulting in 258. After GF I started HIM Adv at week 14, then the following week (wk15/May 5-6 ) I did that crazy 2 day 210 mile, 20,000 elevation ride which killed my legs, specifically my quads and tendons around the knee. I had knee pain for 4 days. They're much better now but I still feel slight pain just above my knees. Last week I recovered with a light spin on Wed. This past weekend I raced an Olympic tri (came in 2nd AG!!). So here's my concern...My goal was to ride at .85 IF but only managed .75 IF. The knee pain didn't really bother me but I felt like I was working harder than the watts I was putting out. I'm not sure if I'm carrying a lot of muscular fatigue and should go easy/reduce intensity on the bike for a week or keep pressing on as long as the knee pain doesn't reappear and have a good taper. My TSB Chart says I'm good to go and my resting HR is normal. In case you want to see my TP, derreksanks/2678505s
Any thoughts/advice? I'd be happy to schedule a call to discuss now that you have the background. Thanks!
Comments
the end of the OutSeason® is in sight! So exciting! Congratulations on another year done...
I personally prefer to test with your same out season set up. I would rather that you capture the games of the winter; before you head outside and make a transition. There will absolutely be some friction there and you'll probably lose a few watts as you reorient yourself to the tribike. To keep things fair, I say that you would test the outdoor tribike after about four weeks of consistent writing on it. That will give you enough time to settle in and internally determine an appropriate effort which you can ride… And that will yield the right FTP number. Make sense?
It was great seeing you at Quassy! Thanks for the support. Two things. First, to follow up on my last Micro post. I followed your advice and tested at the end of OS on the road bike on the trainer...FTP was 260; about a 13% increase. Then I switched to riding my tri bike and several weeks later (last week) I tested outside on my tri bike, FTP is 250.
Second, I'm in week 9 of advance IM training for IM Chattanooga and want to boost my bike fitness. I was thinking about adding a VO2 type workout (4-5x5'@110%) on Tuesdays for the next four weeks. My run is solid (just ran a 5K PR/19:31 today) and think I can afford to replace the Tuesday 2x1 miles with a 45'-60' TRP run. I'd do my Thurs LR on Wed and the Wed bike/run wko on Thursday. After 4 weeks I'd revert back to the normal schedule. Another thought is to do a 4-day big bike week next Thursday thru Sunday as 60/80/80/100 miles. Are there other options to gain bike fitness? Sticking with the plan is always an option but I feel I have the mental and physical capacity to do more work these next few weeks. I'll continue monitoring my fatigue and back off if needed. What are your thoughts? Thanks.
Just thinking outside the box here...what if you split the Wed long run as Tues PM / Wed AM. So..
Tue = planned FTP in AM (but no brick run). Then PM is part 1 of long run.
Wed = AM of second half of long run, option to swim on Wed PM (making that up!).
Thu = VO2 Ride, optional brick
Thoughts?
Coach P
That sounds great! I like the idea of splitting the long run over Tues PM & Wed AM and I'm already doing OWS Wednesdays evenings. This is very doable and still allows 6 days of running and 3 swimming.
Thanks for your guidance!
Derrek
Have a great weekend,
~ Coach P
Hey Coach P,
Can I get your input of altering my training week? This past Friday/Saturday (Week 16 EN IM Adv plan for IM Chatt) I had to go out of town so I moved Saturday's 4400 yd swim to Friday and completed Friday's run. On Saturday, I could only run while out of town and did 6 miles. Sunday I did the 5 hr bike (actually 5:50) and 40 min brick run. Essentially, I only missed the Sunday ABP ride. Should I do the ABP ride Monday or some other bike workout or just stick to the plan, which is a swim.
Also, since I might have to go out of town again this coming Friday/Saturday, is there a better way to adjust the training from what I did this past weekend?
One last question, over this past week it felt like I've had a boost in my bike fitness. This is based on last Wednesday's FTP workout on tired legs (2x20') at .94 and .97 (this was after Camp week). Then today's 5:50 ride, 8x25'(5), was done between .84 and .87, which is a first! Then 60' at .75. Felt really good the entire ride, which had ~5,400 feet elevation. I'm usually at .80 and the last 2-3 are at .75. on these 5 hr rides. Should I work in a FTP test? (again, I'm going into week 17) or base my goal race day watts on my 6x 100+ mile rides and upcoming RR? I do realize the FTP test could be less than accurate due to cumulative fatigue, so it might be best to stick with 250.
Thanks,
Derrek
Mon - As Planned
Tue - Bike/run from Wed
Wed - Swim/run from Tues
Thu - ABP ride up to 90'
Fri - Long Run
Sat - Recover / yoga / stretch
Sun - Long Ride (From Sat)
That's great news on the bike. I'd rather you use your 5hr power as a target vs an FTP test for race zones. Let's pick a number to target soon (power and HR) so you can start training too it and seeing if you think it's right!!
~ Coach P
That plan will work...thanks.
Regarding 5 hr power and HR, TP only gives me 3 hr power and my HR varies by 10-15 bpm based on temps and humidity. So far my HR plan is to start in the mid to low 120 bpm and build to mid 130s and avoid 140+ but if it's a hot day I'll add 5-8 bpm to these numbers. I'm thinking for power, first 30' at .65 IF, first loop at .70 and build to .75 on the second loop, if I'm feeling it; otherwise stay at .70. Is there guidance on how to know if these watts are too low?
Thanks,
Derrek
Your early goal is the HR. Should take you 15 to 25' to get it down, and you need to get it down before the false flat section. Once your HR flashes a 12X number, then you can get to work at your 70%....yes to an HR cap on those hills...gotta be smart. And eat drink well please!
No need to go 75% in lap two..your body craves steady...so prove a full ride at 70% with a good run and then we can talk!
~ Coach P
Happy Holidays!
I need some guidance for OS and no running. ?? After 7 years of triathlon, I have my first significant injury. Totally out of the blue, I strained my left lower hamstring while on the treadmill last Friday. I took off from running for 6 days and this morning tried a slow jog, but it's still strained/pulled. Fortunately, biking and swimming doesn't impact it.
I'm wondering how should I structure my OS weeks (I'm in NOS Wk 8) with no running. Is this a good time to focus more on the bike? Get in a bike or workout on Sundays and/or Wednesdays. My bike fitness/FTP needs the most improvement.
Thanks!
Coach,
I just read the OutSeason Run Jail page in the Wiki and believe that answered my questions. Bike Tu/Th/Sa/Su with Su being a repeat of Thursday or 60'-70' ABP. I'll also swim on Wednesday and 1 or 2 other days. Let me know if you have other thoughts. Thanks!
Note the treadmill is really not hamstring friendly, especially at incline. So let's be careful to try more "real" running (LIGHTLY!) as you start your return injury.
~ Coach P
I am not sure where you are right now, but I generally recommend that you try and intermediary modality before you return to straight running. So this will be something like the elliptical or the stair climber. Something to give you the aerobicWorkload and new mix the running motion. We want to put your hamstring under some light strain but without the dynamic elements of true running.
Regardless of your current state, I strongly recommend you check out our pre-run dynamic warm-up guidance. It's a simple video you can keep open on your phone in a browser window. and do the exercises before your next run. It's under the technique section: http://members.endurancenation.us/Resources/Wiki/tabid/91/Default.aspx?topic=Running+Master
https://calendly.com/pmccrann/15min
Have a great weekend,
~ Coach P
Hey Coach P!
I just watched your webcast on the Big Bike Week...great stuff. I'm doing an organized ride May 5 and 6, which is 109 miles/6,000+ ft elevation each day and after watching the webcast I'm thinking why not make this a big bike week. My details: I completed Nov OS with a 52 VDOT and 276 FTP. Currently, I'm in week 6 of the Get Faster Advance Plan; on April 24 I'll load up the HIM plan (starting at week 14) ending on Jun 11 for Eagleman 70.3. My BBW would happen in Week 15. I'm also planning (not signed up yet) a sprint and/or olympic ("C" race) the following weekend, May 13/14).
I was thinking of the below BBW schedule:
Monday: Bike 40-50 miles (swim before bike)
Tuesday: Swim and Easy Run 40' - 50' at Z1-TRP
Wednesday: Bike 50-60 miles / Run 40' - 50' at Z1-TRP
Friday: Bike 109 miles / 30 min Run at TRP
Sat: Bike 109 miles
Sunday: Swim or Complete Rest
Monday: ?? Swim/Rest
Tuesday: ?? Run 30' - 40' at Z1-TRP
Wednesday: ?? Bike 30' - 60' easy spin or EN workout at reduced intensity
Thursday: Back on HIM plan
Please let me your thoughts...recommended S/B/R schedule. I'm not sure if this is too much/little with my 70.3 five weeks after the BBW. Friday and Saturday rides are set, other days of the week are flexible.
Thanks!
Monday: Swim, then Bike 40 miles
Tuesday: Swim and Easy Run 40' at Z1-TRP
Wednesday: Bike 60 miles / Run 40' at Z1-TRP
Thursday: OFF / Stretch, etc. (or move run from Wednesday here)
Friday: Bike 109 miles / 30 min Run at TRP
Sat: Bike 109 miles
Sunday: Swim / Pull to facilitate recovery.
Monday: OFF / REST
Tuesday: Run 40' at Z1-TRP, no real goals.
Wednesday: Bike 60' easy spin / aerobic.
Thursday: Long Run as planned, back on the plan.
That gets you 318 miles in a week (note Thursday to make it manageable) with three swims and just under two hours of running, epic!
Just remember that we want you to paste those rides appropriately so you're always strong finish. There's no such thing as starting with a pacing goal right at the start.... Easy and build from there.
Can't wait to follow on Strava!
I have a quick question. I'm in week 14 of HIM Adv plan and the Thursday long run is
Main Set: 70' @ Zone 2, 15' @ Zone 3, 5' final push at best possible effort. Remainder of time @ TRP.
Does this mean after 90' of work, end with 30' at TRP?
Just making sure as this seems different than the 2016 plan.
Thanks!
Have a great run!
~ Coach P
@Coach Patrick
Dang! That is going to burn...more mentally than physically...I hate you!! Just kidding...I'll be thanking you after race day. :-)
On another topic... Looking a couple weeks ahead, again HIM Advance Week 17, I'm going to be out of town that weekend Saturday and Sunday with only access to running. How can I best restructure that week? Thanks.
Re week 17, I am not too worried about it as the focus of that week is your RR Run. So you can either do the week as planned...and chill on the weekend.... OR....
Move the week a bit:
Let me know what you decide!
~ Coach P
Since I'm leaving Friday and returning Saturday, I decided to stick with the original EN schedule for this week. So the RR Run will be Thursday and RR Swim Friday AM, before leaving. Then Sunday I plan to ride the Eagleman course doing the ABP ride. How does that sound.
Secondly, I'm concerned about my bike fitness going into Eagleman (my A race) and wanted to get your take/advice. Recent background. NOS Adv was very successful; FTP went from 234 to 276. Then 3 days after the last FTP test, I did the Sufferfest 9 day tour. Then swim camp for 2 weeks, then GF Adv, 10 weeks. For GF I switched to my TT bike and lowered my FTP to 266. A few weeks later I did a FTP test resulting in 258. After GF I started HIM Adv at week 14, then the following week (wk15/May 5-6 ) I did that crazy 2 day 210 mile, 20,000 elevation ride which killed my legs, specifically my quads and tendons around the knee. I had knee pain for 4 days. They're much better now but I still feel slight pain just above my knees. Last week I recovered with a light spin on Wed. This past weekend I raced an Olympic tri (came in 2nd AG!!). So here's my concern...My goal was to ride at .85 IF but only managed .75 IF. The knee pain didn't really bother me but I felt like I was working harder than the watts I was putting out. I'm not sure if I'm carrying a lot of muscular fatigue and should go easy/reduce intensity on the bike for a week or keep pressing on as long as the knee pain doesn't reappear and have a good taper. My TSB Chart says I'm good to go and my resting HR is normal. In case you want to see my TP, derreksanks/2678505s
Any thoughts/advice? I'd be happy to schedule a call to discuss now that you have the background. Thanks!