Things are going well with IM Minimalist Plan. I'm going to have several schedule shuffle issues over the next 2 months and would like your guidance on moving things around to get the best training. The first is in week 5 of 12 (Aug 21). I'm driving to Buffalo leaving Tuesday, Aug 22 and returning Sunday, Aug 27. I should be able to do the FTP Bike before leaving Tuesday and I will be able to run and swim while in Buffalo. See below for what's in the IM Plan and what I can do. Should I make any changes/additions to the runs/swims due to not being able to bike. Should I look into doing a couple spin classes? Thanks.
Tuesday - FTP Bike per IM Plan; run the PM after arriving Buffalo Wednesday - Per IM Plan: Swim in the AM; Interval Run in the afternoon Thursday - No VO2 Bike, Run in the AM Friday - No 120' Bike, Swim in the AM Saturday - No 300' Bike, Run Sunday - Run in the AM; run in the PM after returning from Buffalo
@Derrek Sanks - thanks for checking in, I am always here to help!
I don't think from a macro level that this week matters very much. After this week is only so I getting into some more bigger cycling work, so my suggestions are as follows:
* extend the bike workouts in week four so you get a little extra ride again. I can't remember if there's a ride on Sunday but maybe you add 90 minutes to 2 hours into the schedule to just like in that bike time.
* The schedule you have outlined looks pretty good to me although it's not clear which day will be your "long" run. Just make sure you stay hydrated and loose with the driving /Travel.
* peek ahead to the following week to see if you want to make any adjustments!!
The Minimalist Plan has the LR on Sunday and we're in the split LR phase, so Sunday of week 5 I would Run 75' in the AM and 75' in the PM, per the Plan.
I like your suggestion to add bike time to week 4 workouts. With my split LR on Sunday, adding an ABP ride would be physically challenging. How about I follow the regular IM Plan for week 4 instead of the Minimalist Plan. That would put the LR on Thursday and allow a 2-3 hr ABP ride Sunday. Also, I can add 30' of Z2 time to Saturday's ride making it 300'. No change to Wednesday'w FTP bike. How does that sound? Thanks.
@Coach Patrick - Checking in! Congrats again on a suburb race and even stronger come back! It was exciting tracking throughout the day. Recover well and I hope your Kona build goes perfectly.
*Minimalist Plan Adv, currently in week 6 of 12* Training has been going well and the above schedule hack worked out well. Being out of town also gave me some quality sleep. However, I did have an issue with my right inner thigh muscle while doing the 2nd run of my split long run on Friday (cut it short by 15 mins). PT said it wasn't a pulled muscle and gave it a "good" massage. I'm planning to start back running tomorrow or Wednesday with short easy runs, unless you advise otherwise. I've been averaging ~ 35-41 miles per week since week 1 and I must admit with the cooler temps in Buffalo, I was running ~30" per mile faster (with lower HR) than the past several weeks in N. VA.
Question: I have a HIM race the weekend of race rehearsal #1 (next weekend). I know...bad planning! Should I completely skip the RR or try to move it a week earlier or a week later? This is basically tune up race as my last race was in June. Thanks!
@Derrek Sanks - thanks for the kind words! I'm not surprised to hear about your Charlie horse, remember you've been caring a lot of fatigue. Rather than getting carried away with the paces just run the heart rate. That way we can make sure that your overachieving is within the limits of what we expect on race day. Sometimes pace becomes too easy to overachieve on.
I think you should totally reach the half iron and skip the rehearsal. If you feel like spending it out on the day before or day after the half to stay loose and keep the bike miles up that's fine but I wouldn't do more than two hours and I would keep it super easy. Cumulative ride time will be race simulation distance-like!
@Coach Patrick - Thanks. I'll try switching to running by HR...makes sense.
I adjusted my nutrition to 3 bottles/hour (2 GE/1 water) and 1 gel/hour (470 Cal/hr). I also switched to drinking every 15' vice 20'. It worked great on my last two long rides. I peed 3 times! I/my stomach has to get used to drinking a lot every 15 mins. I can tell when my stomach is full (burping) and when the liquid leaves my stomach. Is that normal?
@Derrek Sanks - remember I'm not a huge fan of the water. Especially at the outset of your race. Your gut is very picky coming out of the swim and it's not going to handle that water or something with low-sodium very well.
If anything, preparing for a hot race means that you should plan on three bottles of Gatorade in the first hour and then go back down to two for the remainder.
Yes you should be prepared that stuff back up, but once you get through the first our things will taper off and you'll be fine. As you go through the gels, I recommend you switch from regular to caffeinated in the second half of your ride to start building up of the "MoJo" as we head in to the run.
@Coach Patrick - Copy on the importance 3 bottles of GE in the first hour. I forgot about the calorie deficit from the swim. I'll back off on the water too. Thanks for the tip on saving the caffeinated gels for the second half. I'm already feeling better about nutrition and this will help further dial it in.
@Coach Patrick - Wanted to give you some feedback from the last couple weeks. First, two weekends ago my 5 hr ride went very well with nutrition adjustments as noted above. Still getting used to drinking half a bottle every 15 mins. I had 2.5 bottles the first hour and ~2 bottles/hour the next 4 hours. Plus 1 powerbar gel per hour. https://www.strava.com/activities/1167047080
Second, had a great race last Saturday at the Patriot's Half (bike was 58 miles). Captured 1st AG and 14th overall. Great swim (PR) and bike. NP - 192, VI - 1.02, IF - .77 Goal IF was .75-.80 Best run ever, 1:37 which included a 2-3 min potty break. I peed once on the bike and again in T2. This is the first time in 6 HIMs that my run wasn't limited by muscle cramps. I had 2 gels and about 2 bottles/hr. Temps started in the upper 60s and ended around 77.
WOW!!!!! Sounds like your focus on nutrition this year has unleashed the beast! I know that stuff is not easy to work on, but I'm very pleased at how diligent you have been. The very least, and the matter what happens on race day you will have the skills and self-knowledge to make the most of the situation.
but I think everything will be pretty darn smooth.
The fact that you were able to turn around after six less than stellar attempts is also very impressive. Let's keep up the great nutritional focus even as you recover this week.
Perhaps the most impressive thing is that you're doing this on the minimalist program! Could be some good lessons are in for us regarding recovery and excellence!
@Coach Patrick - I finally listened to EN members. Feedback from my last few race plans/reports were that my fluid in-take was low. I've finally learned how important it really is and how it impacts the run. I guess my wife is right that I'm stubborn. This IM build is definitely different than last year, particularly my CTL is about 15-20 points lower 4 weeks from race day. I'll see how it builds.
Recovery is going very well. Legs are feeling great today and I plan to do an easy trainer spin tonight; Wednesday will be a swim and FTP bike, Thursday will be an Z1/TRP run and Friday-Sun per the plan.
Question: Since I didn't do Camp/RR#1 last weekend, should I plan to add some volume to this weekend's long ride? Should I look at doing and Saturday and Sunday long ride? Thanks.
Are you be fixing that fluid is the most important thing you've done all year. Nothing wrong with having a lower CTL by any means. You've absolutely done great work this year.
Rather than focus on longer rides this weekend, I would focus more on the quality.
In other words after getting into your warm-up maybe dial it up to .75 for some 20 minute intervals. Keep the time down but use your rested state to push the Watts a little bit higher for the time you have allotted to the work out. All the more to prepare you for the work you will do on race day such that it will feel like you're falling asleep!
A couple questions, I wanted to check to make sure the Advance Minimalist Plan was correct for Week 18/RR #2. - Both Tuesday and Sunday Runs show 60 min total time but the workout description adds up to 120 mins. - RR Swim, Bike and Run is on Saturday and not Friday with another RR Bike/ 30' run on Saturday, is that correct?
Finally, on a bike course like IM Louisville with a ton of rollers, what's the best way to hit your power targets. When climbing, it's easy to go 10-30 watts over your target watts while descending, it's hard to maintain goal watts. Is there a good percentage range above and below goal watts we should aim for? Maybe you can address this during the pre race webinar?
@Derrek Sanks - Clearly the fatigue is starting to set in! That is pretty typical for this time of year, and there’s only so much you can do. Which is why your “big“ weekend for this weekend isn’t that big.
I fix those runs for you so you can see. It’s a race rehearsal on Saturday with an ABP ride and an hour run on Sunday. I am not sure why those plans are so jacked up, I look forward to fixing them for next season in one fell swoop!
Nouvel does have a fair amount of rollers, but it’s important to still pace it properly. The first 30 minutes out of transition are an opportunity to get your heart rate down what is required. Then you are welcome to push the Watts 10% higher on the rollers, 15% higher on the shorter hills, and then just get back to normal race Watts on the down hills. You have to make a decision as to whether not you can maintain your momentum over a hill, or if you were just playing defense.
I don’t want you to hammer up a hill that is actually five minutes long and has a false flag afterwards. If it something where you can see the other side then go for it because your speed will stay the same. But if it’s a pretty significant climb, set up and use your best judgment to spin through it so that you can have more energy for the last 32 miles of that ride and of course, the marathon.
Given your focus the season on nutrition, I am very excited to see what you are capable of doing on the run there.
@Coach Patrick, sounds great in regards to the Big, not so Big, weekend.
Regarding this week (week 18) in the Minimalist Plan, since the 18 mile race sim run was this past Sunday, I'm going to do the 120' run on Thursday. Tuesday I did a 50 min run. I thought a 120' run 2 days after the 18 miler would be too much.
Thanks for the advice on riding the Louisville rollers/hills. I needed the caps on watts for going uphill because it's so easy to spike watts on hills, especially in the first have half of the bike.
@Coach Patrick - Congratulations on another great Kona race. I hope your recovery process is going well. It was great tracking you and the team...very motivating for my race the next day. Speaking of my race...I had a very good day! Really surprised myself. Results: 10:37 (1:06/5:46/3:32). You obviously had me on the right plan and my hydration changes proved to be spot on. I felt great the entire day...well until mile 20. Thank you for your support, guidance and encouragement!
@Derrek Sanks - Holy cow that’s incredible race! Look at that run at the end of the Iron Man… No wonder everyone else was saying that you were a runaway freight train!
I can’t think of a better way to close out your year… You had the second fastest ones put on the date for your age group… Which means a lot of my focus can be on the bike next year without trying to make you materially faster on the run. What a great place to be.
Load up that recovery plan and please chill out for a few weeks before we get back to work, you have earned it!
@Coach Patrick, Thanks! I think I had the perfect taper and body/muscles felt great race week. CTL only decreased 10% and TSB was at 30 on race day. I really felt fresh coming off the bike. I think my hydration changes and the minimalist plan made a huge difference. As you said, need to focus on bike this OS as I want to podium at IM Lake Placid next year. Would love to hear your thoughts. Recovery is going well. I could barely lift my legs Monday and Tuesday and by Thursday legs felt great. I'm following your protocol of no running for 2 weeks. I'll schedule a call in the next week to discuss ^^^^^ and next steps.
@Derrek Sanks - please continue with the recovery, it’s the most important thing you can do. Use your downtime this month to analyze race performances in your age group at Lake Placid. There is a great website called theobsessedtriathlete.com where are you can look up performances by races and individual. Don’t use it to go ahead and predict what other folks will do, but go look at it to see what your age group typically does.
This will give us a sense of how we want to frame your training goals for next year.
You will be a January I’ll season start, so when you are ready, can you put you in the run durability program and start chipping away at that goal run pace that you determine from your analysis. Very excited for 2018!
Recovery has been going well. I've eased back into running (2-4 miles Z1 to TRP) but my HR/pace/RPE indicators are still slightly off from one another. Meaning HR is several beats higher for my pace and RPE, or RPE is higher than actual pace. I'm going to keep the runs easy and short until these indicators start matching again. I've been biking 2x a week and recently joined Zwift. As you suggested I looked at past IMLP results in the 50-54 AG. Looks like a lot of fast folks showed up this year as 6 of the top 8 finishers had sub 5:20 bike splits. 2nd place had 5:22 and 7th had 5:36.
In 2016, 1st place had 5:11 and 2nd-8th ranged between 5:39 and 6:03 (5:39, 5:40, 5:43, 6:03, 5:47, 6:03, 5:58)
In 2015, 1st - 8th ranged between 5:32 and 5:56, except 4th had 5:19 (5:32, 5:34, 5:29, 5:19, 5:35, 5:41, 5:56, 5:56)
As for the runs, the average for 1st, 2nd and 3rd finishers were 2017: 3:34; 2016: 3:29; 2015: 3:50. Averages (top 3) for the bike, 2017: 5:16; 2016: 5:30; 2015: 5:31.
So, I'm thinking a great swim 1:05 - 1:09, based on my last swim RR (with Sim Shorts) was 1:09. Bike target would be sub 5:30 and run 3:30. Using BBS on the LP course with FTP at 280 (currently at 250), weight 160 (currently 165) and .73 IF would put me at 5:29 bike split and 287 TSS.
What are your thought?
It's a lofty goal but I like having goals that keep you up at night and seem impossible at the time.
I'll list out my 2018 races in my next posting. Thanks.
Wow! Way to crush IMLC! It was amazing tracking and cheering for you! Congratulations. I hope you're enjoying some well earned down time, at least for a few days.
Based on BBS, a 280 FTP and .70 IF would put me at 275 TSS and 5:35 bike split.
A 285 FTP would be a 5:30 bike with all else the same.
Here are my committed races/events for the first half of 2018. I'm seriously thinking about a second IM in late Sep or Oct/Nov. Should I submit these using the TSR?
Dec or Jan OS ? April 8 - 70.3 Florida (not signed up. Might be too much with OS and the Mallorca Camp? Thoughts?) April 14-21 - Mallorca Camp Jun 3 - 70.3 Raleigh July 22 - IMLP
Sounds like somewhere between 280 and 285 is best. Well, now we have our work cut out for us!
I personally think Florida is a bit too much given everything else. I know you are motivated enough to do good work without the pressure of a race. Plus, that level of threshold improvement requires enough space to let it happen. When you do finalize your races , Please submit them using the survey!
Comments
@Coach Patrick
Things are going well with IM Minimalist Plan. I'm going to have several schedule shuffle issues over the next 2 months and would like your guidance on moving things around to get the best training. The first is in week 5 of 12 (Aug 21). I'm driving to Buffalo leaving Tuesday, Aug 22 and returning Sunday, Aug 27. I should be able to do the FTP Bike before leaving Tuesday and I will be able to run and swim while in Buffalo. See below for what's in the IM Plan and what I can do. Should I make any changes/additions to the runs/swims due to not being able to bike. Should I look into doing a couple spin classes? Thanks.
Tuesday - FTP Bike per IM Plan; run the PM after arriving Buffalo
Wednesday - Per IM Plan: Swim in the AM; Interval Run in the afternoon
Thursday - No VO2 Bike, Run in the AM
Friday - No 120' Bike, Swim in the AM
Saturday - No 300' Bike, Run
Sunday - Run in the AM; run in the PM after returning from Buffalo
* peek ahead to the following week to see if you want to make any adjustments!!
The Minimalist Plan has the LR on Sunday and we're in the split LR phase, so Sunday of week 5 I would Run 75' in the AM and 75' in the PM, per the Plan.
I like your suggestion to add bike time to week 4 workouts. With my split LR on Sunday, adding an ABP ride would be physically challenging. How about I follow the regular IM Plan for week 4 instead of the Minimalist Plan. That would put the LR on Thursday and allow a 2-3 hr ABP ride Sunday. Also, I can add 30' of Z2 time to Saturday's ride making it 300'. No change to Wednesday'w FTP bike. How does that sound? Thanks.
*Minimalist Plan Adv, currently in week 6 of 12*
Training has been going well and the above schedule hack worked out well. Being out of town also gave me some quality sleep. However, I did have an issue with my right inner thigh muscle while doing the 2nd run of my split long run on Friday (cut it short by 15 mins). PT said it wasn't a pulled muscle and gave it a "good" massage. I'm planning to start back running tomorrow or Wednesday with short easy runs, unless you advise otherwise. I've been averaging ~ 35-41 miles per week since week 1 and I must admit with the cooler temps in Buffalo, I was running ~30" per mile faster (with lower HR) than the past several weeks in N. VA.
Question: I have a HIM race the weekend of race rehearsal #1 (next weekend). I know...bad planning! Should I completely skip the RR or try to move it a week earlier or a week later? This is basically tune up race as my last race was in June. Thanks!
how is your workout nutrition treating you!?
@Coach Patrick - Thanks. I'll try switching to running by HR...makes sense.
I adjusted my nutrition to 3 bottles/hour (2 GE/1 water) and 1 gel/hour (470 Cal/hr). I also switched to drinking every 15' vice 20'. It worked great on my last two long rides. I peed 3 times! I/my stomach has to get used to drinking a lot every 15 mins. I can tell when my stomach is full (burping) and when the liquid leaves my stomach. Is that normal?
If anything, preparing for a hot race means that you should plan on three bottles of Gatorade in the first hour and then go back down to two for the remainder.
Second, had a great race last Saturday at the Patriot's Half (bike was 58 miles). Captured 1st AG and 14th overall. Great swim (PR) and bike. NP - 192, VI - 1.02, IF - .77 Goal IF was .75-.80
Best run ever, 1:37 which included a 2-3 min potty break. I peed once on the bike and again in T2. This is the first time in 6 HIMs that my run wasn't limited by muscle cramps. I had 2 gels and about 2 bottles/hr. Temps started in the upper 60s and ended around 77.
https://www.strava.com/activities/1175995275
https://www.strava.com/activities/1176123980
https://www.strava.com/activities/1176035247
Feeling good about my nutrition/hydration plan. Thanks!
but I think everything will be pretty darn smooth.
This IM build is definitely different than last year, particularly my CTL is about 15-20 points lower 4 weeks from race day. I'll see how it builds.
Recovery is going very well. Legs are feeling great today and I plan to do an easy trainer spin tonight; Wednesday will be a swim and FTP bike, Thursday will be an Z1/TRP run and Friday-Sun per the plan.
Question: Since I didn't do Camp/RR#1 last weekend, should I plan to add some volume to this weekend's long ride? Should I look at doing and Saturday and Sunday long ride? Thanks.
In other words after getting into your warm-up maybe dial it up to .75 for some 20 minute intervals. Keep the time down but use your rested state to push the Watts a little bit higher for the time you have allotted to the work out. All the more to prepare you for the work you will do on race day such that it will feel like you're falling asleep!
https://www.strava.com/activities/1187286110
https://www.strava.com/activities/1198020381
And I had a good 18 mile race sim run today...better than I expected in 86% humidity
https://www.strava.com/activities/1199400753
A couple questions, I wanted to check to make sure the Advance Minimalist Plan was correct for Week 18/RR #2.
- Both Tuesday and Sunday Runs show 60 min total time but the workout description adds up to 120 mins.
- RR Swim, Bike and Run is on Saturday and not Friday with another RR Bike/ 30' run on Saturday, is that correct?
Finally, on a bike course like IM Louisville with a ton of rollers, what's the best way to hit your power targets. When climbing, it's easy to go 10-30 watts over your target watts while descending, it's hard to maintain goal watts. Is there a good percentage range above and below goal watts we should aim for? Maybe you can address this during the pre race webinar?
Thanks.
Regarding this week (week 18) in the Minimalist Plan, since the 18 mile race sim run was this past Sunday, I'm going to do the 120' run on Thursday. Tuesday I did a 50 min run. I thought a 120' run 2 days after the 18 miler would be too much.
Thanks for the advice on riding the Louisville rollers/hills. I needed the caps on watts for going uphill because it's so easy to spike watts on hills, especially in the first have half of the bike.
Thanks for your help.
Here's my race report: https://endurancenation.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/24043/derreks-breakout-race-ironman-louisville-race-report#latest
I can’t think of a better way to close out your year… You had the second fastest ones put on the date for your age group… Which means a lot of my focus can be on the bike next year without trying to make you materially faster on the run. What a great place to be.
Recovery is going well. I could barely lift my legs Monday and Tuesday and by Thursday legs felt great. I'm following your protocol of no running for 2 weeks.
I'll schedule a call in the next week to discuss ^^^^^ and next steps.
Thanks.
You will be a January I’ll season start, so when you are ready, can you put you in the run durability program and start chipping away at that goal run pace that you determine from your analysis. Very excited for 2018!
Recovery has been going well. I've eased back into running (2-4 miles Z1 to TRP) but my HR/pace/RPE indicators are still slightly off from one another. Meaning HR is several beats higher for my pace and RPE, or RPE is higher than actual pace. I'm going to keep the runs easy and short until these indicators start matching again. I've been biking 2x a week and recently joined Zwift.
As you suggested I looked at past IMLP results in the 50-54 AG. Looks like a lot of fast folks showed up this year as 6 of the top 8 finishers had sub 5:20 bike splits. 2nd place had 5:22 and 7th had 5:36.
In 2016, 1st place had 5:11 and 2nd-8th ranged between 5:39 and 6:03 (5:39, 5:40, 5:43, 6:03, 5:47, 6:03, 5:58)
In 2015, 1st - 8th ranged between 5:32 and 5:56, except 4th had 5:19 (5:32, 5:34, 5:29, 5:19, 5:35, 5:41, 5:56, 5:56)
As for the runs, the average for 1st, 2nd and 3rd finishers were 2017: 3:34; 2016: 3:29; 2015: 3:50. Averages (top 3) for the bike, 2017: 5:16; 2016: 5:30; 2015: 5:31.
So, I'm thinking a great swim 1:05 - 1:09, based on my last swim RR (with Sim Shorts) was 1:09. Bike target would be sub 5:30 and run 3:30. Using BBS on the LP course with FTP at 280 (currently at 250), weight 160 (currently 165) and .73 IF would put me at 5:29 bike split and 287 TSS.
What are your thought?
It's a lofty goal but I like having goals that keep you up at night and seem impossible at the time.
I'll list out my 2018 races in my next posting. Thanks.
I think a 287 TSS is too high of.a.demamd.on your body to be able to run at your peak. That said, I think you can do well on the run there.
Also this year the wind was insanely favorable - I would add 6 to 10' to all of those splits.
Do the math on what FTP would generate a 274 TSS for you and we can go from there!!
Wow! Way to crush IMLC! It was amazing tracking and cheering for you! Congratulations. I hope you're enjoying some well earned down time, at least for a few days.
Based on BBS, a 280 FTP and .70 IF would put me at 275 TSS and 5:35 bike split.
A 285 FTP would be a 5:30 bike with all else the same.
Here are my committed races/events for the first half of 2018. I'm seriously thinking about a second IM in late Sep or Oct/Nov. Should I submit these using the TSR?
Dec or Jan OS ?
April 8 - 70.3 Florida (not signed up. Might be too much with OS and the Mallorca Camp? Thoughts?)
April 14-21 - Mallorca Camp
Jun 3 - 70.3 Raleigh
July 22 - IMLP
Thanks!