Current thoughts/plan incase you don't get back to me today on the above note.
Flip-flop Saturday and Friday. Friday, do 64 to 100 miles on the bike at slightly less than race pace effort to a maximum of race pace effort. 30 to 40 minute HR based run off the bike.
Saturday, full on race rehearsal. 4,200 yard open water swim, 112 bike, 6 mile run.
Sunday, easy spin not to exceed low zone 2 of likely 100 miles, but maybe less.
Also, it is starting to look like there is a chance that Choo may be wet suit legal. Water temp has dropped, rain coming, and lots of cold nights. Doesn't really matter to me either way. But if it is, I'll be wearing it I suspect. I'm going to try to take the lake temp tomorrow and if its below 80 should I consider wearing the wet suit? I haven't swam in it since April! Nothing new on race day!
Weather is currently looking good this weekend. But several running races at and closer to the coast have been cancelled this weekend. Mostly so emergency services can prep incase Irma hits us in some way. But if the weather does suddenly turn, I'll knock out the bikes on Zwift and run in the rain. Swim will depend on conditions and it would be in an outdoor pool.
Thoughts? Advice? Ideas?
Starting to freak a little. Putting in tons and tons of hard work. But seem to be getting slower and slower. Training load fatigue has surely set in. Hopefully the taper works magic. But seeing speeds on the bike similar to IMMD in 2015 when I was far weaker is concerning. Though I crushed 110 miles on Zwift Saturday in 5:10. Though Zwift isn't exactly real. Even my swims are slowing down! And swimming is my thing!
Brian, Tim, now I see why you wanted to talk to me. When you discuss the plan with me you told me that the swim was listed for Friday but it should be done on Saturday before the bike and run. I had no idea that there was also a bike and run scheduled for Friday as well.
Since I don't have your training plan in front of me when we talk it's hard for me to be able to give you 100% answers.
Intermediate people and beginner people sometimes don't have that bike ride on the Friday, just a Swim with instructions to do it on Saturday as a full day of SBR if possible.
The most important thing about the weekend is the back to back 112 rides. You can swim either day whichever one is easier but you do not need to do swims on both. Very sorry for the confusion.
Since I am on Team Idiot what you think of doing IMMD on Oct 7th? Ha ha ha ha. Who do I think I am doing 2 full in 2 weeks, Susan Haag?
Have a group of friends doing it and its so damn tempting. I have no doubt I would crush the swim and bike but worry the marathon would turn into a zombie like disaster.
So short of that, I'm heavily leaning toward IMNC 70.3 for fun, but also giving it a serious effort. Its on Oct 21st. Semi local race for me. And super flat. So the BS Choo Hills will not come into play again. Thoughts? What training plan should I load up if I decide in the next day or two to do NC?
I'll be punching up my Choo race report shortly and will will be putting my known races for next year on the calendar and getting a new road map shortly. The 100% knowns are Dec out season and ending it with the Myrtle Beach Half Marathon the first weekend of March, just like this year. May do Raleigh 70.3 again, but thats iffy. Will almost certainly be doing an unbranded 70.3 early in September. Hoping to do a good number of Olympic and sprint distance races in 2018 with an eyeball on a early to mid winter marathon to end 2018. But probably not.
Is there a way to structure the out season to end with a marathon instead of a half? I can easily change my Myrtle Beach half registration to the full for a couple dollars. But here is my other thought on doing a full next year. The Peak to Creek Marathon here in NC is crazy with 3,000 feet of elevation LOSS. Its super fast. Generally the last weekend in October. Would crushing a Half Iron distance the 2nd Saturday in September then turning around and doing a 100% all out effort at a full marathon like that be a doable? I generally recover very well and I don't think the half iron would require much down time if any before switching to 100% running to prep for the marathon. I'm sure the half iron training plan could be augmented to increase the run frequency and distances to prep for such an effort.
I know the one thing I want to focus on in 2018 over all other things is building my bike fitness and getting my FTP up as high as possible. Its the one thing I am 100% certain I can really grow and improve on. While I'm sure a lot of people would be happy with an FTP of 258, I am not. I want it over 300 and well over if possible. I love destroying myself on the trainer and having trouble unclipping when I am done because I am so thrashed.
@Brian Terwilliger - congratulations on your race. It was awesome following your progress in seeing you get it done. Nice to have that run PR in your back pocket as well!
You can raise whatever you want, but you are right the second marathon will crush you. Be sure to check out @Ian Kurth race report from Wisconsin after having done tremblant two weeks prior. It’s not pretty.
I recommend dropping into the half as while it will hurt, you can get it out on the run. The only differences you will likely need to bring your iron and nutrition game to the half so you have enough glycogen/calories to go as fast as you want. Otherwise I say light it up.
Moving beyond this year, it’s Rhonda or ability for the remainder of the fall and then the Outseason. Yes we can totally structure of the OS it into a marathon, I do it quite often for people heading into Boston. It does impact your bike workouts a little bit, but we can focus on raising your FTP across the whole year not just in the OS.
Let me know about your short term decision, you would load up the advanced half plan, and we can go from there.
Emails/process tells me to schedule a post race call with you so I grabbed the first available spot on your "meetme.so" calendar. Oct 24th at 10:30. Not sure 15 minutes is really enough to go over the season, race day, future, etc... If you wanted to do a longer one let me know some options that work for you.
Decided against IMMD. While it would be fun until the run, I do think the run would get me. Full IMs deserve and command ones respect and best prepared effort. I doubt I would have it once we got to the run. Still undecided on the NC 70.3. May do it, may not. Have a bunch of friends doing it and may just do walk up registration and race it for fun. Or just go down and cheer.
Here are my immediate plans. 1 hour runs on Monday, Tuesday, and Friday as that's when I have to take my kids to Cross Country practice from 5:30 to 6:45 PM. Might was well run while I'm there. This will continue through mid Nov. I'll do a trainer ride on Wednesday most likely and possibly swap Friday for a Thursday run. Hope to hit some longer rides on Zwift on one of the weekend days or both.
Alternate thoughts. Local half marathon put on by my run club on Nov 18th. Load up the 2017 out season advanced plan to end on Nov 19th. Move Wed run to Tuesday, Tuesday bike to Wednesday and rock it best I can.
My thoughts are this will keep me strong going into the 2018 Out Season and not lose a lot of fitness over the next couple months. Especially on the bike.
Thoughts on 2018 Out Season. My Out Season test race will once again be the Myrtle Beach Half Marathon. Its on Saturday March 3rd. With the Nov out season starting too early for this, I need to do the Dec out season. However, this has me test/race at week 12 and not 14. I'd really like to start the Dec OS a couple weeks early to get the full 14 weeks in before race day. Any issues there as I know you like all out season people to be on the same schedule and training as a group.
Edit: Decided to not do the Nov Half Marathon and instead will volunteer. Gonna just run and bike with some intensity and distance until the OS starts. Looking forward to the OS and hopefully a new Half Marathon PR come March.
Thanks for the follow up! I like the basic stuff of where you’re headed but want to make sure we’re on the same page.
All my calls or 15 minutes for the team. If you want to do a longer call those are consults, so you’re welcome to ride up your notes about your lessons learned and we can discuss those on the call I hope you understand that the scale of the team prevents me from doing significantly extended calls at the end of the year with everyone.
The start of the Outseason is dependent upon when you’re racing season begins in 2018. So when is that first half or full etc. The half marathon is a nice benchmark but certainly should not dictate when you start the Outseason . Generally speaking after a big year I prefer a more “relaxed“ fall for the run and bike focus before starting the out season in January. Starting the out season in December means that you will be functionally alone in your training in if that’s OK with you, we can do that.
I think we can use your time at cross country meets to dial-in an effective run durability week that includes time for two quality bike workouts as well. I would be curious to know what your weekly mileage average was last year for 2016 as compared to 2017. There’s likely some low hanging fruit there that a consistent fall program will address. Let me know!
I do all my training alone on a real life basis, so being a lone wolf isn't of concern to me. I thrive on the isolation a lot of the time. All my run club and tri club friends are out there doing group runs and the such, training together, screwing around and goofing off together. They are taking more selfies than miles ran. Me, I'm in the garage on the trainer or treadmill busting ass. Then race day comes and I destroy them.
PRing and really having my best possible performance at the Myrtle Beach Half Marathon on March 3, 2018 is important to me. Its a big race that a lot of friends and run club members run. And its really going to be my one stand alone running race for the year. Last year I shocked myself and everyone else with a 1:29:38 for a near 3 minute PR. I'd like to hit 1:27:XX if possible next time.
And I can hit the gym pretty hard as well between now and out season. Or during out season as well. Now that I am not swimming my Y membership isn't getting used. So...
Last year there were the Nov, Dec, Jan, and Feb OS crews. Will it not be a similar set up this year?
I've got a pretty good picture of what I will have on the calendar next season. March 3rd half marathon, late April an Olympic distance and sprint, June 3rd Raleigh IM 70.3 (most likely), mid July sprint tri, early Sept half iron and sprint. Another Olympic and sprint will be thrown in there somewhere and leaning heavily toward doing an end of October Marathon with a course that has 3,000 feet of elevation loss! Nearly all of it in the first 20 miles then a flat 6 miles to the finish. Tough race to get into though. 400 slots and that's it. Online feeding frenzy to get one of em.
Here are the running numbers you requested. From Nov 2016 through Sept 2017, total miles ran was 1,210.65 which is an avg of 110.05 per month for the 11 months. Here is shot of the monthly distribution. First weekend of March half marathon (end of OS), first weekend of June Half Iron, and IM Choo Sept 24th were the races for the year.
Prior year, Nov 2015 - Oct 2016, miles ran was 1,335, or 111.25 miles per month. A mile from 2016/17 time frame avg. Had a early April marathon, then half iron beginning of September. They were the only races done all year.
My 2018 goals are to get much stronger on the bike. Would like an FTP above 300. (258 at Choo). Then we can build on that to get it well above 300 for 2019 Full Iron racing and a course(s) picked to best suit my body type and strong points. Want to PR the half marathon in March, PR IM Raleigh 70.3, then crush that time with a PR at the White Lake Half Iron 70.3 at the beginning of Sept. as it is very flat bike and run so faster than Raleigh, though still hot.
Thanks! As an addendum to the above suggested/planned race schedule rolling around in my head, what are your thoughts on racing an unbranded HIM the 3rd weekend in April with also likely doing Raleigh IM 70.3 on June 3rd? The April HIM is a super flat, unchallenging course and a local race. Would likely follow it up with a sprint at the same location the next day. Or would scaling it back to the Olympic on Saturday, Sprint on Sunday be most advisable?
Here's your updated Season Plan, as promised. This is where you'll return to post all your "coach" questions as responses; I'll see them and reply. This first post is my best outline of how to proceed with your races, but you can ask any / all questions you want. So post away, know that I reply here usually M/W/F each week.
Power User Tip: Click the Star icon by the Title of this thread to subscribe, and you'll get email updates when I do reply.
Your Notes
My 2018 goals are to get much stronger on the bike. Would like an FTP above 300. (258 at Choo). Then we can build on that to get it well above 300 for 2019 Full Iron racing and a course(s) picked to best suit my body type and strong points. Want to PR the half marathon in March, PR IM Raleigh 70.3, then crush that time with a PR at the White Lake Half Iron 70.3 at the beginning of Sept. as it is very flat bike and run so faster than Raleigh, though still hot.
Your Races
March 3rd: half marathon
April 21/22: Olympic on Saturday, Sprint on Sunday
June 3rd Raleigh IM 70.3 (most likely)
mid July sprint tri
early Sept half iron and sprint.
end of October Marathon
Season Update
These are your recommended training plans, including the date you should start each one (sometimes you won’t complete a full plan but transition to another one). You can change your plans on the Training Plan page by clicking the Move / Change button. Learn more about each plan on the Training Plan Central Page.
Last updated by Coach on 10/06/2017
On 10/9/2017 Load the -- Run Durability 1 (9 months out) -- 4 weeks to end on 11/5/2017
On 11/6/2017 Load the -- Run Durability 2 (8 months out) -- 4 weeks to end on 12/3/2017
On 12/4/2017 Load the Advanced OutSeason / Run Durability Plan, 14wks to end on 3/11/2018
On 3/12/2018 Load the -- Swim Camp to end on 3/25/2018
On 3/26/2018 Load the Advanced EN*Half to end on 06/03/2018
On 6/4/2018 Load the Advanced Big Bike Week to end on 06/10/2018
On 6/11/2018 Load the -- Bike Focus Block, 6 Weeks to end on 7/22/2018
On 7/8/2018 Load the Advanced Big Bike Week to end on 07/14/2018
On 7/15/2018 Load the Advanced EN*Half to end on 9/9/2018
On 9/10/2018 Load the -- Post Half Iron Transition Plan, All Levels (2wks) to end on 9/23/2018
Coach Notes
So here you go my friend. RDP (GroupMe Chat for RDP) into the DEC OS. We modify that for a slightly early HM race, recover in Swim Camp and then abbreviated Half into Raleigh 70.3®. Then we leverage two Big Bike Weeks and a Bike Focus plan to really hammer in the bike fitness before returning to the Half Plan into White Lake.
Your focus is on getting 30 miles a week avg in Oct, 35 avg in Nov. One FTP ride and one ABP ride, no need to swim.
Then we set some targets for the OS on the Bike Focused plan...I think it's going to be a great year.
Thanks. I've loaded up the first part. Will shoot you some questions if I have them. I will.
Right off the bat I see only 1 bike on Saturday in the RD program. Obviously gut the swim. Initial thought is to move Wednesday run to Thursday to run with my run club and sub a bike of some sort on Wednesday. Saturday looks like the ABP ride, so maybe snag an FTP workout from big bike week, half, or OS plan and plug it in on Wednesday.
Hit the gym on Monday and Friday for strength training and core work?
Brian - while Coach P is on Hawaii, he's asked some of us to look in on the Coach threads and offer our response to any queries.
So, two questions about Run Durability tweaks:
Add another bike, and if so, what and when? Given your desire to significantly improve your FTP this coming season, throwing an FTP session on Wednesdays is a good plan. The specifics of that can certainly come from the OS workouts, or you could design your own progression, starting with about 24 minutes of total work time (say, 3 x 8') and building to 40-45' total time over a four week cycle. IMO, we probably need to frequently switch up the package every 4-6 weeks, so what I would do the second 4 week cycle is change over to VO2 work, and then you'd be tuned up to start the OS in a good place.
Switching the run around to accommodate the Wed bikes? I would keep the Wed run in, maybe reducing to 20 minutes the first few weeks, either early in the day, or as a brick.
And yup, Mon and Fri are the traditional days for strength and core work.
@Brian Terwilliger - Great to talk with you and hear not only about your race, but the future as well. I see lots of good stuff on the horizon for you...you and I just have to agree on the methods...
Race Note: Would have gone to pace later in the run. <-- Save that info as you'll want it next time...it's a great reminder of the power of "the whip" and we can get after it in your next triathlon.
Future Races
No Full in 2018.
OS myrtle beach half marathon test
June 3rd IM NC Raleigh (TBD)
09/08/2018 White Lake Fall Half Iron
September: Peak to Creek Marathon
2019 another full. What is the best race? <-- for this one I am on the fence. I think as a good swimmer you should choose a race that requires real swimming so other folks are 10-15 minutes behind you and have to work harder. That's really my only requirement!
GOALS:
Wants to crack 1:30 by pushing pace beyond mile 3, sub 1:28 pace.
White Lake Dominate
Peak To Creek as sub-3:05.
Suggestions:
I recommend that you dial things back a little bit this fall in terms of high-intensity and start with our Run Durability Program (RDP). Considering how fast you want to be next fall this to be a great investment for you. You can use the running portion of the plan as a canvas in on top of that work in some bike intensity just need something to stay sane.
Then it's December OutSeason® (start on 12/4) for you into your half marathon and a quick turnaround for Raleigh if that works.
Once you are through Raleigh, it's some unstructured training / recovery for the rest of June / into early July.
Then you can load up the Adv Half plan (we can modify a bit) into your next block for White Lake. Depending on your marathon we can talk about what it means to modify the Half Plan to get you all set up.
We will know more about the long-term plan in the next two months, but you can get started with the run right durability project right away and start building the engine.
Also doing unbranded half iron beginning of September. White Lake Fall Half Iron.
I started the RD program earlier in the month and am currently on week 3 of the '9 months out' plan. Will then do the 8 months out plan. Was looking to start out season at Beginning of December to get in 12 weeks of work prior to Myrtle Beach half marathon and build FTP before stating half iron plan for the Raleigh 70.3. Taking an easy week after the half mary gives me a solid 12 weeks of training for Raleigh. And really, not that much recovery is needed from the OS and a half marathon. 13.1 is just going to be a really hard training run from a physical stress stand point. Get the swimming kick start plan going and we are off and rocking.
I don't think waiting till January to start the OS will prepare me for Myrtle to my satisfaction and goals. Its a big time race for my run club and sizeable wagers are laid. And more than bragging rights are on the line.
@Brian Terwilliger - OK, let’s go with the December start then. If anyone can handle the workload and intense focus of the winter that you have outlined, it is you. I will make those other adjustments to your schedule above later this week and.
Here is where my head is at. Tell me if I am wrong and why. Or if I am right.
Continue Run Durability (currently on 9 month out plan, load up 8 months out on Monday) through Nov., ending it on Dec 3rd. Load up the 2018 Out Season Bike Focus (Advanced, Level 3) to end on 03/04/2018. Myrtle Beach Half Marathon is on 03/03 (Saturday). This should drop me into week 3 of the OS on Monday Dec 4th.
My reasoning is this will provide the natural flow of the OS and ending it as written with a race as planned for an OS Test. Thus week 3-14, vs. 2-12, then 14 as taper week and race week. You had it written above as loading it up on 12/4 with scheduling it to end on 03/11. This would have me do weeks 2-13, race, then week 14 (or 2-12, 14 and race, then a week off). If you think that will provide better results on race day in Myrtle, I'm all ears.
But I think it may be a typo. I don't think you'd have me do the final week of the OS after the OS Test race. Or maybe you would. Season road map has me loading Swim Camp on 03/12. If not doing week 14 of the OS after the MB Half Marathon, that gives me a week of nothing. I'm pretty lazy, but not that lazy. Though a binge week will be welcome. Again, all ears.
Plan on doing the OS core routine and a strength training plan on Monday and Friday at the gym. If I don't go to the gym, the core routine won't get done. Sure, its easy to just knock it out in the living room. But its easier to sit on the couch or find another distraction. But, since I am going to the gym, even though I am a competent and fairly good swimmer, would swimming be better than lifting weights? I'm already there. I can do either. Swimming neither adds nor subtracts from admin time or really changes up my daily/life schedule. What say you?
A lot of the OS running will be done on the treadmill. Especially the runs off the bike. No need to go out into cold dark all sweaty from the bike. Likely a recipe for disaster/illness as it will soon be cold out there. Any suggested alterations to the runs being on a treadmill? Other than playing with the incline to have it regularly changing. I also try to run a tick faster on the treadmill than the zone paces. Generally .1 to .3 MPH faster (my mill does mph not min/mi and I have a conversion chart to make sure I'm going the right speed)
The below items can be addressed as time gets closer. But wanted to get them out there.
From a shear rested, tapered, and ready performance perspective on race day for the Myrtle Beach Half, skip the FTP test on Wednesday and move to after the race (Tues or Wed)? Or move to Tuesday from Wednesday before race as race is a Saturday, not a Sunday?
Thought: Move swim camp up a week and move loading the EN Half Advanced up a week for Raleigh 70.3? This will give me weeks 10-20 (aka 2-12) vs. weeks 11-20 (3-12). Assuming I'm not doing Week 14 of the OS after the OS Test Race.
White Lake Olympic 04/21 White Lake Sprint 04/22 IM Raleigh 70.3 06/03 (still unknown) Triangle Sprint 07/14 White Lake Half Iron 09/08 White Lake Sprint 09/09
@Brian Terwilliger - if those are the official race this, then I can assume those are all the races that you were doing? Let me know.
I’m never concerned with the exit of the plan as much as I am the storm. For example, and we can nine, 10, 11 or even 12, we could talk about how you want to exit. But I don’t start a plan based off of how you want to exit in 3 1/2 months. Typically too much goes on between now and March to really make that decision mission critical right now. I agree with what you’re saying, so if that’s what you want to go with let’s do it.
I think you have a very detailed sense of order and if the MasterPlan is synced with what you want, you will be much happier.
Given the expectations you have around Myrtle Beach half, yes I recommend you do that FTP test the week after the race. Of course, you could do it Tuesday the week of the race and be more than enough rest to five days later. But if there’s even an inkling of concern we can have you do it after although you likely would need to rest several days still at the half marathon get out of your body.
The core work and strength is important, for you this one is not. I understand you don’t want to be at the gym for just half an hour so you can fill that time with whatever you want whether it’s stretching or swimming or lifting etc. I guess as long as you’re burning calories and not interrupting your other important workouts and I am OK with it.
Yep. Those are the official dates. Half of them are too far out to worry about and the Triangle Sprint in July is really just a fun race in my backyard for the hell of it and to test out a 100% effort on the bike for 18 miles basically to see how I can run off it on a trail. In blistering North Carolina July Heat. Oh joy. And there is all you can eat pizza at the finish, so I got that going for me. I took 3rd last year with a broken shifter cable and 1 gear on the bike. And not a good gear. Like the 24 tooth. Ugh. Maybe get the win this time.
So here is the season set up through IM Raleigh on June 3rd, which I am now 90% on.
Start OS Bike Focus Level 3 Dec 4th.
Krispy Kreme Challenge Feb 3. Run 2.5 miles to Krispy Kreme. Eat a dozen doughnuts. Run 2.5 miles back to start.
March 3rd Myrtle Beach Half Marathon (OS Test Race)
March 19th Tobacco Road Half Marathon (Not racing, pacing my 11 year old)
April 21 White Lake Olympic, would really like to crush this
April 22 White Lake Sprint, would also like to crush
June 3rd IM Raleigh 70.3. This is my A- race. But will train and race as if it were my A race. The White Lake Half in September is my A++ race.
So here is my plan.
OS Bike Focus Level 3, but do the optional swim workouts on Monday and Friday, along with core work. Swimming sucks. I hate swimming. But I'm decent at it. And would like to be able to easily ramp up at a fast pace once swim camp and then HIM training kicks in. I may decide to drop swimming and sleep in. Who knows. I'm a bit torn. I think swimming will be helpful and I'm going to the damn gym anyway. But I honestly think that swimming will help me better on weight management and dropping weight than lifting. But, getting older (45 next year), strength training becomes more important. I'm really torn. Coin toss.
Then we will drop into the HIM plan
I'm really looking forward to the OS and destroying myself. I love to suffer. I chew on suffer. I chew on agony.
Also, for fun, like the Ben & Jerry's challenge, I suggest we do an EN Beer Mile challenge. Drop one mid winter. Have people film their attempt and post.
@Brian Terwilligerlooks great!! I'd be curious to know which is better for your Body Comp - swim or weights. The key with the weight stuff is to not go too heavy. But I defer to you on that choice...maybe 6 weeks of strength and then hit the pool?
Ps - like the EN Beer Mile challenge. Is there any.weather.consideration? Beer Treadmill Challenge could get fully.
@Brian Terwilligerlooks great!! I'd be curious to know which is better for your Body Comp - swim or weights. The key with the weight stuff is to not go too heavy. But I defer to you on that choice...maybe 6 weeks of strength and then hit the pool?
Ps - like the EN Beer Mile challenge. Is there any.weather.consideration? Beer Treadmill Challenge could get fully.
I like the idea of 6 then 6 for strength training / swimming. And going heavy is my problem with weights. I just can't bring myself to lift little weights. And I pack on muscle pretty quickly. That's what has me leaning toward adding the swim to the OS. Keep the activity level high, calorie burn up, but not add muscle mass beyond what the cycling and running will do to my legs. Already have trouble finding jeans. But sleep may win out and just stick with the core routine as a stand alone.
Could always move the beer mile to the spring. The problem with doing it on a treadmill, at least as far as the "time" for the mile goes is the stopping the belt to drink the beer, then starting it up again. Will cause ones time to be longer than it would be in reality. And can't just step off to the side and let the belt keep spinning, cause then you don't actually run the mile. But now I want to do one at the gym like this. There is no sign saying I can't drink beer while working out.
But our Canadian friends and northern states members would probably have a good bit of fun doing it in the snow.
Brian - it's official you are online more than me. I might hire you as my coach.
It's the eccentric stuff that builds the muscle so don't go slow if you go big. But honestly the light stuff is more sport specific regardless. Maybe make it more functional --!like dumbells and standing on one leg for curls and dumbell press...or even on a wobble board / foam pad.
I live on-line. My entire day is spent on the phone and scouring the internet. Ahhh, the fabulous and glamorous life life of a skip trace and recovery specialist.
Also broke down and got a Kickr Snap today with REI's 20% off sale. Figured worth a try, if I don't like it, easy return.
Now it is all starting to make sense! Let me know how the snap works… I am sure other people on the team will be considering it this winter.
Picked it up on Friday. Set it up Saturday afternoon and just randomly picked a workout in the Zwift menu that had a lot of shorter internvals so I could see how the ERG mode operated, what it was like, etc..
Big mistake. The workout had 750 watt 1 minute sprints. Ha! Needless to say I immediately went into the spiral of death and my cranks locked up. I made it 3 miles and quit.
But today, I built up a nice 90 minute workout with 1 to 15 minute intervals of 165 to 330 watts and really liked it. (FTP is 258) Its a bit weird and will surely take some getting used to. I think I will miss the ability to really push a little extra hard on some intervals, especially when I am feeling good. But I suspect it will get balanced out by the inability to go below the target watts. And I like that I can turn my brain off and just pedal and not have to focus on watts and holding em. Though I can see that possibly translating into an issue out on the road when I do have to do that. But so far so good. The full blown Kickr is probably better for me with how much time I will put on the trainer between now and April (100% of riding), but $1,000 for a trainer is a bit much for me to justify. And my wife is sick of me taking over the garage so she hired a contractor to build me a pain cave. The extra money is better spent pimping that out.
I am so looking forward to the OS starting in a couple weeks. And am already excited about the half marathon test race. Bunch of friends ran 1:22 yesterday. I gotta step up my game. And my wife roped me into a Diva run in May. Will be nice to run sub 1:30 in a pink tutu if its not to hot in May for such a pace.
When we created the concept of SAU, I never thought of abusing the privilege so much that my wife would build me a pain cave out of anger. You, sir, are clearly next level!
I agree, the transition has been different. I personally like how it changes with the terrain making for a much more challenging ride. No more easy rides for me!
Regardless, change is good and I see us both benefiting. Raising a sweaty water bottle and toasting you to 2018!!
Should I control it via ANT+ from my power meter or just use its internal power system or whatever it would be called?
Not sure if my unit is defective or I'm doing something wrong. But its consistently reading 40-50 watts less than my PM.
I was struggling mightily to hit numbers on the workouts this week, even having to abandon the 2nd set of 10x30 on Thursday. My FTP is 258 and I was getting totally gassed after 10 minutes in low Zone 3 (205). I know I'm not at peak cycling shape, but man, I'm not that outta shape. So I started using my Edge 520 to see what my PM was saying vs what Zwift was saying I was pushing via the Kickr.
On todays workout I was pretty worn out, HR was 20+ BPM higher than normal and I was getting frustrated near the end of the 12 minutes in Z3 at the end of the warm up. So I turned on the 520 during a reduced effort interval. Zwift was saying 170. 520 was saying 218! And my legs were telling me that 218 was the right number. Got out my phone, launched the Wahoo app and turned on the "control by power meter" option and then everything seemed to smooth out, power felt correct to my legs, and finished out the 2 and half hours strong.
Flash back to the Thursday 10x30 max effort I had to abandon. Target watts to hold were 305. If this thing is off as I suspect, it was demanding I hold 350+. Likely why i had to skip the bulk of the 2nd set. I can normally hold 300+ for a good period of time, 350+, ahhh, no.
Am I missing something in setting the Kickr up? I did the spin down calibration after 10 minutes before starting the ride. Or does this sound like a bad unit?
Added question on edit:
When I ride outside I never have any saddle or saddle sore issues. I can ride for days and weeks without a single hint of a hot spot or other problems. And honestly, I don't even need to use any lube for outdoor riding. But now that we are in trainer season, and 100% of my rides will be indoors I've got a recurring problem I need to get fixed.
After a couple trainer rides I get a very painful spot on the right side that turns into what looks like a cyst. Its right where my leg meets my ass on the inner under side if you can picture that location. But this only occurs on the trainer. Any ideas on combating this and correcting the situation? I can and likely will be come a serious problem that will greatly impact my ability to do bike training.
Edit #2.
I had to quit todays 14 x 30" max effort. 4 intervals in. PM reading over 400 watts, Zwift reading 310. To angry and frustrated to put bike on dumb trainer and start over. Its going back tomorrow unless I can figure out what the hell I am doing wrong.
Thanks for the update. Yes, that your power meter control it that way you have synchronicity between your indoor and outdoor Watts.
On the fatigue thing, remember you are opting to do a ton of work at the end of the year. So yes, there’s an issue with the snap but you are also asking a lot of yourself. Don’t be afraid to break the glass and pull the handle once a week and just swim.
That issue arises because outside your break free movies. Indoors, it does not. That is definitely a saddlesore, I have had one myself. You always need to wear clean shorts, lots of lube, and immediately get out of the wet clothes as soon as you finish the work out. I repeat, do not stay in the wet clothes.
That happened to me at a training camp in Arizona once and after two days of riding only standing up I eventually had to last the thing. It remains the most disgusting thing I’ve ever seen.
Comments
Current thoughts/plan incase you don't get back to me today on the above note.
Since I don't have your training plan in front of me when we talk it's hard for me to be able to give you 100% answers.
The most important thing about the weekend is the back to back 112 rides. You can swim either day whichever one is easier but you do not need to do swims on both. Very sorry for the confusion.
Moving beyond this year, it’s Rhonda or ability for the remainder of the fall and then the Outseason. Yes we can totally structure of the OS it into a marathon, I do it quite often for people heading into Boston. It does impact your bike workouts a little bit, but we can focus on raising your FTP across the whole year not just in the OS.
Let me know about your short term decision, you would load up the advanced half plan, and we can go from there.
Emails/process tells me to schedule a post race call with you so I grabbed the first available spot on your "meetme.so" calendar. Oct 24th at 10:30. Not sure 15 minutes is really enough to go over the season, race day, future, etc... If you wanted to do a longer one let me know some options that work for you.
Decided against IMMD. While it would be fun until the run, I do think the run would get me. Full IMs deserve and command ones respect and best prepared effort. I doubt I would have it once we got to the run. Still undecided on the NC 70.3. May do it, may not. Have a bunch of friends doing it and may just do walk up registration and race it for fun. Or just go down and cheer.
Here are my immediate plans. 1 hour runs on Monday, Tuesday, and Friday as that's when I have to take my kids to Cross Country practice from 5:30 to 6:45 PM. Might was well run while I'm there. This will continue through mid Nov. I'll do a trainer ride on Wednesday most likely and possibly swap Friday for a Thursday run. Hope to hit some longer rides on Zwift on one of the weekend days or both.
Alternate thoughts. Local half marathon put on by my run club on Nov 18th. Load up the 2017 out season advanced plan to end on Nov 19th. Move Wed run to Tuesday, Tuesday bike to Wednesday and rock it best I can.
My thoughts are this will keep me strong going into the 2018 Out Season and not lose a lot of fitness over the next couple months. Especially on the bike.
Thoughts on 2018 Out Season. My Out Season test race will once again be the Myrtle Beach Half Marathon. Its on Saturday March 3rd. With the Nov out season starting too early for this, I need to do the Dec out season. However, this has me test/race at week 12 and not 14. I'd really like to start the Dec OS a couple weeks early to get the full 14 weeks in before race day. Any issues there as I know you like all out season people to be on the same schedule and training as a group.
Edit: Decided to not do the Nov Half Marathon and instead will volunteer. Gonna just run and bike with some intensity and distance until the OS starts. Looking forward to the OS and hopefully a new Half Marathon PR come March.
I think we can use your time at cross country meets to dial-in an effective run durability week that includes time for two quality bike workouts as well. I would be curious to know what your weekly mileage average was last year for 2016 as compared to 2017. There’s likely some low hanging fruit there that a consistent fall program will address. Let me know!
I do all my training alone on a real life basis, so being a lone wolf isn't of concern to me. I thrive on the isolation a lot of the time. All my run club and tri club friends are out there doing group runs and the such, training together, screwing around and goofing off together. They are taking more selfies than miles ran. Me, I'm in the garage on the trainer or treadmill busting ass. Then race day comes and I destroy them.
PRing and really having my best possible performance at the Myrtle Beach Half Marathon on March 3, 2018 is important to me. Its a big race that a lot of friends and run club members run. And its really going to be my one stand alone running race for the year. Last year I shocked myself and everyone else with a 1:29:38 for a near 3 minute PR. I'd like to hit 1:27:XX if possible next time.
And I can hit the gym pretty hard as well between now and out season. Or during out season as well. Now that I am not swimming my Y membership isn't getting used. So...
Last year there were the Nov, Dec, Jan, and Feb OS crews. Will it not be a similar set up this year?
I've got a pretty good picture of what I will have on the calendar next season. March 3rd half marathon, late April an Olympic distance and sprint, June 3rd Raleigh IM 70.3 (most likely), mid July sprint tri, early Sept half iron and sprint. Another Olympic and sprint will be thrown in there somewhere and leaning heavily toward doing an end of October Marathon with a course that has 3,000 feet of elevation loss! Nearly all of it in the first 20 miles then a flat 6 miles to the finish. Tough race to get into though. 400 slots and that's it. Online feeding frenzy to get one of em.
Here are the running numbers you requested. From Nov 2016 through Sept 2017, total miles ran was 1,210.65 which is an avg of 110.05 per month for the 11 months. Here is shot of the monthly distribution. First weekend of March half marathon (end of OS), first weekend of June Half Iron, and IM Choo Sept 24th were the races for the year.
Prior year, Nov 2015 - Oct 2016, miles ran was 1,335, or 111.25 miles per month. A mile from 2016/17 time frame avg. Had a early April marathon, then half iron beginning of September. They were the only races done all year.
My 2018 goals are to get much stronger on the bike. Would like an FTP above 300. (258 at Choo). Then we can build on that to get it well above 300 for 2019 Full Iron racing and a course(s) picked to best suit my body type and strong points. Want to PR the half marathon in March, PR IM Raleigh 70.3, then crush that time with a PR at the White Lake Half Iron 70.3 at the beginning of Sept. as it is very flat bike and run so faster than Raleigh, though still hot.
Thanks! As an addendum to the above suggested/planned race schedule rolling around in my head, what are your thoughts on racing an unbranded HIM the 3rd weekend in April with also likely doing Raleigh IM 70.3 on June 3rd? The April HIM is a super flat, unchallenging course and a local race. Would likely follow it up with a sprint at the same location the next day. Or would scaling it back to the Olympic on Saturday, Sprint on Sunday be most advisable?
@Brian Terwilliger -
Here's your updated Season Plan, as promised. This is where you'll return to post all your "coach" questions as responses; I'll see them and reply. This first post is my best outline of how to proceed with your races, but you can ask any / all questions you want. So post away, know that I reply here usually M/W/F each week.
Power User Tip: Click the Star icon by the Title of this thread to subscribe, and you'll get email updates when I do reply.
Your Notes
My 2018 goals are to get much stronger on the bike. Would like an FTP above 300. (258 at Choo). Then we can build on that to get it well above 300 for 2019 Full Iron racing and a course(s) picked to best suit my body type and strong points. Want to PR the half marathon in March, PR IM Raleigh 70.3, then crush that time with a PR at the White Lake Half Iron 70.3 at the beginning of Sept. as it is very flat bike and run so faster than Raleigh, though still hot.
Your Races
Season Update
These are your recommended training plans, including the date you should start each one (sometimes you won’t complete a full plan but transition to another one). You can change your plans on the Training Plan page by clicking the Move / Change button. Learn more about each plan on the Training Plan Central Page.
Coach Notes
So here you go my friend. RDP (GroupMe Chat for RDP) into the DEC OS. We modify that for a slightly early HM race, recover in Swim Camp and then abbreviated Half into Raleigh 70.3®. Then we leverage two Big Bike Weeks and a Bike Focus plan to really hammer in the bike fitness before returning to the Half Plan into White Lake.
Your focus is on getting 30 miles a week avg in Oct, 35 avg in Nov. One FTP ride and one ABP ride, no need to swim.
Then we set some targets for the OS on the Bike Focused plan...I think it's going to be a great year.
Let's get to work!
~ Coach P
Thanks. I've loaded up the first part. Will shoot you some questions if I have them. I will.
Right off the bat I see only 1 bike on Saturday in the RD program. Obviously gut the swim. Initial thought is to move Wednesday run to Thursday to run with my run club and sub a bike of some sort on Wednesday. Saturday looks like the ABP ride, so maybe snag an FTP workout from big bike week, half, or OS plan and plug it in on Wednesday.
Hit the gym on Monday and Friday for strength training and core work?
So, two questions about Run Durability tweaks:
- Add another bike, and if so, what and when? Given your desire to significantly improve your FTP this coming season, throwing an FTP session on Wednesdays is a good plan. The specifics of that can certainly come from the OS workouts, or you could design your own progression, starting with about 24 minutes of total work time (say, 3 x 8') and building to 40-45' total time over a four week cycle. IMO, we probably need to frequently switch up the package every 4-6 weeks, so what I would do the second 4 week cycle is change over to VO2 work, and then you'd be tuned up to start the OS in a good place.
- Switching the run around to accommodate the Wed bikes? I would keep the Wed run in, maybe reducing to 20 minutes the first few weeks, either early in the day, or as a brick.
And yup, Mon and Fri are the traditional days for strength and core work.Race Note: Would have gone to pace later in the run. <-- Save that info as you'll want it next time...it's a great reminder of the power of "the whip" and we can get after it in your next triathlon.
Future Races
GOALS:
Suggestions:
I recommend that you dial things back a little bit this fall in terms of high-intensity and start with our Run Durability Program (RDP). Considering how fast you want to be next fall this to be a great investment for you. You can use the running portion of the plan as a canvas in on top of that work in some bike intensity just need something to stay sane.
Then it's December OutSeason® (start on 12/4) for you into your half marathon and a quick turnaround for Raleigh if that works.
Once you are through Raleigh, it's some unstructured training / recovery for the rest of June / into early July.
Then you can load up the Adv Half plan (we can modify a bit) into your next block for White Lake. Depending on your marathon we can talk about what it means to modify the Half Plan to get you all set up.
We will know more about the long-term plan in the next two months, but you can get started with the run right durability project right away and start building the engine.
Let me know what you think!
~ Patrick
@Coach Patrick
Initial thoughts, may/will add more later.
Also doing unbranded half iron beginning of September. White Lake Fall Half Iron.
I started the RD program earlier in the month and am currently on week 3 of the '9 months out' plan. Will then do the 8 months out plan. Was looking to start out season at Beginning of December to get in 12 weeks of work prior to Myrtle Beach half marathon and build FTP before stating half iron plan for the Raleigh 70.3. Taking an easy week after the half mary gives me a solid 12 weeks of training for Raleigh. And really, not that much recovery is needed from the OS and a half marathon. 13.1 is just going to be a really hard training run from a physical stress stand point. Get the swimming kick start plan going and we are off and rocking.
I don't think waiting till January to start the OS will prepare me for Myrtle to my satisfaction and goals. Its a big time race for my run club and sizeable wagers are laid. And more than bragging rights are on the line.
Thanks.
Here is where my head is at. Tell me if I am wrong and why. Or if I am right.
Continue Run Durability (currently on 9 month out plan, load up 8 months out on Monday) through Nov., ending it on Dec 3rd. Load up the 2018 Out Season Bike Focus (Advanced, Level 3) to end on 03/04/2018. Myrtle Beach Half Marathon is on 03/03 (Saturday). This should drop me into week 3 of the OS on Monday Dec 4th.
My reasoning is this will provide the natural flow of the OS and ending it as written with a race as planned for an OS Test. Thus week 3-14, vs. 2-12, then 14 as taper week and race week. You had it written above as loading it up on 12/4 with scheduling it to end on 03/11. This would have me do weeks 2-13, race, then week 14 (or 2-12, 14 and race, then a week off). If you think that will provide better results on race day in Myrtle, I'm all ears.
But I think it may be a typo. I don't think you'd have me do the final week of the OS after the OS Test race. Or maybe you would. Season road map has me loading Swim Camp on 03/12. If not doing week 14 of the OS after the MB Half Marathon, that gives me a week of nothing. I'm pretty lazy, but not that lazy. Though a binge week will be welcome. Again, all ears.
Plan on doing the OS core routine and a strength training plan on Monday and Friday at the gym. If I don't go to the gym, the core routine won't get done. Sure, its easy to just knock it out in the living room. But its easier to sit on the couch or find another distraction. But, since I am going to the gym, even though I am a competent and fairly good swimmer, would swimming be better than lifting weights? I'm already there. I can do either. Swimming neither adds nor subtracts from admin time or really changes up my daily/life schedule. What say you?
A lot of the OS running will be done on the treadmill. Especially the runs off the bike. No need to go out into cold dark all sweaty from the bike. Likely a recipe for disaster/illness as it will soon be cold out there. Any suggested alterations to the runs being on a treadmill? Other than playing with the incline to have it regularly changing. I also try to run a tick faster on the treadmill than the zone paces. Generally .1 to .3 MPH faster (my mill does mph not min/mi and I have a conversion chart to make sure I'm going the right speed)
The below items can be addressed as time gets closer. But wanted to get them out there.
From a shear rested, tapered, and ready performance perspective on race day for the Myrtle Beach Half, skip the FTP test on Wednesday and move to after the race (Tues or Wed)? Or move to Tuesday from Wednesday before race as race is a Saturday, not a Sunday?
Thought: Move swim camp up a week and move loading the EN Half Advanced up a week for Raleigh 70.3? This will give me weeks 10-20 (aka 2-12) vs. weeks 11-20 (3-12). Assuming I'm not doing Week 14 of the OS after the OS Test Race.
Official race dates have been posted.
White Lake Olympic 04/21
White Lake Sprint 04/22
IM Raleigh 70.3 06/03 (still unknown)
Triangle Sprint 07/14
White Lake Half Iron 09/08
White Lake Sprint 09/09
I think you have a very detailed sense of order and if the MasterPlan is synced with what you want, you will be much happier.
Please confirm those races and go from there.
Yep. Those are the official dates. Half of them are too far out to worry about and the Triangle Sprint in July is really just a fun race in my backyard for the hell of it and to test out a 100% effort on the bike for 18 miles basically to see how I can run off it on a trail. In blistering North Carolina July Heat. Oh joy. And there is all you can eat pizza at the finish, so I got that going for me. I took 3rd last year with a broken shifter cable and 1 gear on the bike. And not a good gear. Like the 24 tooth. Ugh. Maybe get the win this time.
Ps - like the EN Beer Mile challenge. Is there any.weather.consideration? Beer Treadmill Challenge could get fully.
I like the idea of 6 then 6 for strength training / swimming. And going heavy is my problem with weights. I just can't bring myself to lift little weights. And I pack on muscle pretty quickly. That's what has me leaning toward adding the swim to the OS. Keep the activity level high, calorie burn up, but not add muscle mass beyond what the cycling and running will do to my legs. Already have trouble finding jeans. But sleep may win out and just stick with the core routine as a stand alone.
Could always move the beer mile to the spring. The problem with doing it on a treadmill, at least as far as the "time" for the mile goes is the stopping the belt to drink the beer, then starting it up again. Will cause ones time to be longer than it would be in reality. And can't just step off to the side and let the belt keep spinning, cause then you don't actually run the mile. But now I want to do one at the gym like this. There is no sign saying I can't drink beer while working out.
But our Canadian friends and northern states members would probably have a good bit of fun doing it in the snow.
It's the eccentric stuff that builds the muscle so don't go slow if you go big. But honestly the light stuff is more sport specific regardless. Maybe make it more functional --!like dumbells and standing on one leg for curls and dumbell press...or even on a wobble board / foam pad.
@Coach Patrick
I live on-line. My entire day is spent on the phone and scouring the internet. Ahhh, the fabulous and glamorous life life of a skip trace and recovery specialist.
Also broke down and got a Kickr Snap today with REI's 20% off sale. Figured worth a try, if I don't like it, easy return.
Kickr Snap question.