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Brian Terwilliger Micro Thread...

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  • @Coach Patrick

    I've run 3 bikes on the Kickr Snap.  All 3 using different brand power meters, and in 3 different places on the bike.

    None of them will even come close to saying I'm pushing the watts that the Kickr says I am.  When the Kickr is saying 205 and not 1, not 2, but 3 bikes/PMs are saying 280+ there is a problem.  I'm taking it back today and telling REI to ship me a new one.  I even tried controlling it via my Garmin Edge 520.  That was even worse.  Spiral of death and lock up occurred at 200 watts.  I don't care how fatigued I am, 200 watts is a calk walk, not a grind to a halt number.  Its frustrating to miss the VO2 workout two weeks in a row.

    To sorta make up for it, I may do a nice Z3 steady ride for an hour plus tomorrow, then attempt a Zwift race around an hours length as a sub for the 2.5 hour workout in plan if I can get my schedule to mesh up with such. 

  •  I agree on taking a bath, I had no idea you had gone to such deaths to figure this out!

    I agree on the zone three right that should be perfect. There’s a great 6 AM right on Swift if you want to join in, it’s got a hard start but it’s a great tempo ride. I believe it starts at 6:05 AM EST. 

    You're invited to my new group 'EN Zwift Event Node (ZEN)' on GroupMe. Click here to join: https://groupme.com/join_group/36550297/V9ei3G

    If you join that group about, click on the icon and do the calendar you’ll see the schedule for the ride.
  • edited December 9, 2017 7:32PM
    @Coach Patrick


    Saturdays long ride is done.  Not that you need any of this info, nor do I need any validation, but here are my thoughts that I had during and after todays ride.

    I took the Snap back yesterday and had REI order me a new one.  It won't be delivered until around the 20th likely.  So had to ride my Kurt Kinetic dumb trainer today and use my PM  to communicate with Zwift.  I'm on week 2 of Bike Focus OS.  Thus the long ride.  2:40.  My legs were feeling strong today, so raised the levels a little.

    On the 12 min at 205 at end of warm up, held 211. 30' at 180 held 191. Knew I had some hard intervals and a long steady Z3 block coming up, so kept those easy.  Then the meat of the workout came.  2 x 10' at 230, held 245 / 242.  I couldn't do that with the Snap.  And on the 60' at 205, held 220.  Couldn't do that with the Snap either.  I think I prefer to have freedom to go above and beyond what is called for in a workout, where the Snap would have held me down at the lower watts the workout called for.  My mind reads this as robbing me of potential gains.  Am I wrong?  

    So I'm pretty sure I'm just going to tell them to cancel the order.  I'm hard pressed to think of why the $500+ for the Snap is a worthy investment.  Thats nearly half a year of EN.  Or a handful of the registration fees for races on my calendar.  Plus I don't really have an interest in worry about riding the 'actual course' in the virtual world for various races like a lot of people do. I just want to hammer the bike and put out big watts.  Actual race day on the actual course is what counts.  Not some virtual ride around my computer screen on a fake version of the course.  
  • Ah crap.  Clicked register for the Kiawah Island Marathon on Dec 8th, 2018.  $41.  Couldn't pass it up.  I think 30 people from my run club ran it yesterday and as many or more will be there again.  I figure it can be my A marathon or I just go and half ass it for fun with friends.  No way to know a year in advance.  Still looking at Peak to Creak Marathon, but they haven't posted the date nor when registration opens.  

    For $91 total, I'm registered for the marathon, wife and both kids are registered for the 5K.  $91 for a full marathon and 3 5Ks.  Can't beat that.  
  • Stryd power meter.  Convince me.  I've hovered over the purchase button a few times but worry it may just be a new device to feed me tons of data that I don't understand or will just overload my brain with data vs just looking at my pace when I run. 

    Will it be easy for me to adapt to it in my runs and will it make me faster.  That's all I really care about. 

    I know with the PM on the bike, I look at 2 numbers when I ride.  Power and Cadence.  That's it.  Will glance at NP which is set to lap every 5 miles, but outside of race day or race rehearsal, I'm not very concerned with a low VI.  I don't even have my MPH on my Edge 520's screen. 

    Will the Stryd act in a similar fashion?  $190 with the 5% EN discount is a chunk of change for a little pod to go on my foot if it turns into a random number generator.

    Are there some really good videos on how to properly train and race with the Stryd?  I'm far more a visual learner than a reading learner.  And yes, I listened to the Stryd podcast from Kona.
  • @Brian Terwilliger -  every time I read your forum posts, I need to bring my a game. I appreciate how much you challenge me and I hope I continue to hold up my half of the bargain.

    About the snap… Any trainer you use in workout mode and Swift is going to “hold you back“ or to put it another way, any Trainer were you dial then predetermine work out targets that you ride towards will hold you back. I honestly think that you would do much better Racing on Zwift. I think it totally fits your personality to go beast mode twice during the week and see what happens with your bike fitness. You do  not necessarily need a smart trainer to do that, although do it it does make it a lot more interesting. I was racing for quite some time there on my dog trainer and just had to do a better job of anticipating the terrain changes. So I support whatever bike decision you make as long as it has you racing or at least trying to race on Zwift! 
     
    No problem on that marathon. We’ve got a long sweet time until we need to make a decision about how we’re going to train for it. Right now our focus is just on the consistency and getting your strength up on the bike while you continue to run frequently. I know you are running quite fast right now but that certainly not mandatory. We can always discuss later in the year, for now revel in that incredible bargain you got.

    I think the Stryd is a great tool for people who need to push themselves to run faster and can use the number to make that happen. In your case, you are already very very good at that. In many ways, you and I are very similar in that regard. I didn’t need the widget to run faster in training, but I did use it on race day to make sure that I didn’t slow down when my week body was trying to trick me. I say save the money.

  • edited December 14, 2017 5:24PM
    @Coach Patrick

    On Edit: Sorry for length, no rush.  And I'm not even sure there is a question in there for you to answer.

    Thanks.  And I appreciate you telling me not to purchase something from a sponsor.  A lot of people would say to buy it out of self interest to get a sponsor as many sales as possible. 

    I honestly think my fast running right now is a fluke.  I hope not.  But I think it is.  With the issues I had with the Snap my bike volume and stress was way down leaving my legs fresh.  I suspect that with switching back to the dumb trainer, or even keeping the Snap when it comes and utilizing it more often than not in 'dumb' mode, my fatigue will bring my running paces back to reality.  And I honestly have no idea where that 10 miler came from over the weekend.  I literally felt I was floating on air the entire run and barely broke a sweat.  I felt I could run forever without effort.  I do not expect this to continue. 

    I really enjoy and thrive on the structured format of the interval workouts.  But damn, those Zwift races are fun and the ones I have done have left me totally destroyed at the end.  Just rolling thoughts in my little brain, I think I will keep the Thursday high intensity VO2 repeats workout as is.  Tuesday, if a good race lines up with the window I have to get my workout in, be it before work or after, I'll give those a shot, if not, hey, regular workout.  And Saturdays long ride, if race schedule meshes up, knock out the first hour of the structured work out, then switch over to one of the 20 to 30 mile races and hammer vs the steady state Z3 on plan.  And if I crash and burn with a few miles to go, so what.  Now to make my Zwift weight 100 pounds...  Funny story on that.  My 11 year old wants to race cyclocross so I got him a nice bike and throw him on my Zwift account a couple times a week.  The other day I hear him out in the garage screaming like he is being attacked.  I go out, he is soaking wet, sweating, crying, and yelling.  I ask whats wrong?  His reply?  I Can't get up the hill!  My guy won't move!  I forgot to drop my weight down to the minimum and his little 65 watt FTP legs are trying to push my 175 pound Zwift guy up a 10% grade.  But he didn't quit and he put it in the little cog, got out of the saddle and blasted a 200+ watt burst to get him going and up the hill.  The kids a little beast.  He is racing the Tobacco Road Half Marathon in mid March.  I should have him do the run focus out season plan.  Crush Tobacco Road and have his little cycling legs all ready to go when he attempts cyclocross come spring.  Brenda Ross's friend Cheryl Turpin was kind enough to send him a couple cycling kits when I posted in a tri group on FB about having trouble finding kids kits that weren't crazy expensive and with questionable sizing.  He'd love an EN kit if one showed up one day...  He likes getting decked out in the EN gear Mariah gave away at Chattanooga. 

    The Kiawah marathon honestly wasn't on my radar, but for $41 dollars I figured why not.  If I'm not feeling it I can just bail, or half ass it for fun, or pace a friend and not feel bad with such a small investment.  But its timing lines up perfect for a dedicated training effort.  Will be coming off the White Lake Half Iron in early Sept.  Take a down week, then ramp it up to go and crush it.  A December marathon and associated recovery if it is actually raced 100% will cause a shift in next years OS and early season schedule, but its so far in the future that it doesn't need to be thought about. 
  • @Coach Patrick

    Do some Zwift races Coach Patrick says.  

    Damn near ripped my legs off.  And that climbing simulation with the Kickr is brutal.

  •  Epic! You might want to consider darling the trainer sensitivity down when you load up swift. There’s a slider where you can determine just how “hard“ you want and she’ll to be. Standard Gaiden seems to be to put it at about 10 percent so say a centimeter away from the left-hand side of the bar. That get you some feel but not so overwhelming that you need to shift all the time when racing.

    Also curious if you have seen people posting on the group me about rocker boards for the trainer? It’s possible that make you want to bees could give you enough movement such that your undercarriage remains happy. 

    2 pieces of 2x2 plywood 3/4
    3 pieces of 1x2 to go in between 2 plywood pieces
    6 holes 2 1/2 inches 
    Tennis balls just push into the holes 
    Trainer zip tied to top. Wood screwed together with about 6 screws


  • I still can't decide if this is genius or a possible death trap.  I also think a smaller version of it, maybe with 4 or no tennis balls could be needed for under the riser block to not throw the angle of the bike off.  Don't need to have the rear raised up high.


  • edited December 28, 2017 12:07AM

    I'm just gonna leave this here.  Week 5 Dec OS.  #TeamVodka


  • edited December 31, 2017 10:01PM

    I have no idea where this came from.  Dec OS Week 5 5K TT.  Big time PR.  Previous was 19:59 doing half mile repeats in marathon training 2 years ago.  #Boom #TeamVodka 

    I almost bailed on the run and just did an hour at TRP instead.  My zones were set last March at the Myrtle Beach Half Marathon.  Didn't do another 5K test as the zones were good for Raleigh 70.3 training and then summer rolled around and I'll be damned if I'm running a 5K time trial when its 105 degrees out.  Was playing with the zone calculator prior to the run and saw I needed to go Sub 19 to get a drop in times.  I figured I'd run mid 20:XX at best and I wasn't resetting my zones slower as I was hitting them pretty good.  But sucked it up, raced it with everything I had and crushed it totally surprising myself.  Never ever did I think a sub 19 5K would ever be within possibility.  But at the next test in week 10, I'm going after it and if I die I die.  


  • @Brian Terwilliger  look at you with a simultaneous improvements! Clearly all the hard work you’re putting in is really paying off. I am super impressed with both your focus and your mental toughness.

    Those pictures I posted were from @Tim Sullivan  he could be a resource for exactly how we made it work, but he swears by it. Just thinking of your undercarriage like any good coach would! 

    I hope you did rest of little bit during the test week...it's going to be critical with your season!

    ~ Coach P
  • edited January 9, 2018 12:32AM
    Coach Patrick said: 

    I hope you did rest of little bit during the test week...it's going to be critical with your season!

    ~ Coach P

    Rest?  What's rest?

    Week 6 of the Dec OS completed.  Some notes, thoughts, ideas.

    Run volume was 42.2 miles.  Ran every day.  With a suggested target of 6 runs, why not.  Will try to keep this up as best I can.  I figure an 5K to 4 miles on Monday and Friday on top of plan at TRP or slightly faster is acceptable.  From a physical stress standpoint, I believe the hard bike work leaves me more beaten down than the runs as the runs truly aren't all that physically taxing.  I started with the Bike Focus OS but decided to switch to the Run Focus, sort of.  Really just doing a mash-up of them both with Zwift racing mixed in. 

    Here is what I am doing, followed by a couple questions.

    As noted, running 6 or 7 times a week as proscribed in the OS plan. 

    Bike.  On Tuesday, doing the workout as written unless a 17-26 mile Zwift Race is available in my workout window. Don't really need to be doing anything longer I don't believe.

    On Thursday, doing the VO2 workout on the bike as written.  Now that my Kickr Snap is working correctly, these are pretty taxing and I like that.  Though I think going forward I am increasing the rest from 30 to 45 seconds.  By the time the damn kickr ramps down the resistance and I do get an easy spin there's only like 15 seconds before the next interval. 

    On Saturday/Sunday (I flip flop days as life schedule dictates) I am doing the bike workout as written in the Bike Focus OS through the intervals.  Then stopping and doing a Zwift race of 17 to 26 miles as a substitute for the 'steady' Z3 section of the workout if one lines up in my workout window.

    Would totally ditching the Saturday OS plan ride and subbing one of the longer 45 mile to 100K races be a better use of my time to build FTP and endurance?  Or sticking with how I'm doing it now be better?  Those 17-26 mile races are pretty brutal after the 90+ minutes of steady riding and Z4 intervals.  But probably not any more brutal than just racing right out the gate for 2+ hours.  Which method produces better results on race day is what matters.  What say you?

    Are there some areas I can increase the running intensity without overdoing it?  There is a ton of TRP running in there.  Yesterday had the 2 x 1 mile Z4, then TRP to 10 miles.  Decided to do 3 x 1 as I was feeling good. 

    I may be shooting myself in the foot here over all, but with a multi minute half marathon PR goal on March 3rd at the end of the OS while simultaneously trying to push up my FTP as high as possible I am probably cooking a recipe for disaster.  But willing to take the risk. 

    From a time perspective, Wednesday and the weekend long run are within a few minutes of each other on length.  Would doing the Z4 intervals on both days be advisable?  Or mix in like 4 to 6 Z4/Z5 half mile intervals on Wednesday work and leave the longer intervals on the weekend?  I think I like that.  The other angle I was looking at this is to do the Bike Focus plan Sunday run (progressive pace, negative split) on Wednesday and the the Run Focus plan Saturday run (Z4 mile repeats) on the weekend.  My half marathon goal pace is faster than Z4 by a few seconds.  I did 6:50 for a 1:29:38 last year and would like to do 6:40 or better this year.  But as stated prior to the beginning of the OS, I am prepared to fail.  Go out at a 6:50 pace for the first 5K then start dropping the pace and do systems checks at 10K and 10 miles.  If the tank is empty and I die, so be it. 

    Just looking for a way to beat myself up some more and hopefully have it result in a faster half marathon on March 3rd.  I like to push myself to the extreme and punish myself in training as much as I can.  And I'm not sure so much TRP running will get me there.  And with running the additional Monday and Friday runs at TRP to log miles and durability, I think some increased intensity will provide benefits.

    Am I way off base and like I said, possibly brewing up a disaster?  

    Bike question.  I have 3 bikes.  The Felt B14 and the P5 for my triathlon needs.  I swing back and forth between them on the trainer to mix it up a little and to spread the abuse.  I have a Scott Speedster road bike.  I've neglected it as far as the trainer because it doesn't have  a power meter on it.  But now with the Kickr Snap, that isn't an issue.  Should I, and if so, how often should I mix it into the schedule?  I know you did pretty much all of your training on a road bike prior to IMMT if memory serves me right because your P5 bit the dust.  Then you went and destroyed the bike course.  Though you are a far stronger cyclist.

    Would mixing the roadie in for a change of position and muscle use be advantageous?  Or Meh, don't make a difference?








  • @Brian Terwilliger -  The results are coming from your incredible work ethic which surpasses almost every single human being I know. Let me answer your questions in reverse and I certainly hope that I capture them all.

    In terms of bikes selection,  I am generally a fan of the road bike in the winter. I personally do a lot better with diversity in my training and it’s nice to get a break from being so far over the front of the saddle each time. Maybe we can try and mix it in for a week or two and just see how you feel.. I personally seem to be able to get a lot more work done in a more upright position.

     In terms of total failure, it’s hard to say. At some point in time you will notice that your training stress balance he has you in a position where you simply can’t work at the high-end of levels you want to create the change in looking for. That’s usually where the fatigue it just becomes insurmountable.

    I think my biggest point to you is that you don’t always have to run fast to be fast. You could do a fair amount of running at 6:55 to seven minute pace that will still prepare you for 740 per mile half marathon.  Consider that sweet spot run training versus interval training.  So I would prefer that you do the interval running on Wednesday and then on Sunday you can get creative and do something a little different. I have had a great deal of success doing “interval running“ with Walker breaks. In your case that would mean running  on Sunday with a 15 minute warm-up and then 10 minutes at 6:40 pace with a one minute walk break and then repeat. This allows you to stack time at that pace but shed the heart rate and other fatigue That would prevent you from sustaining that piece and keeping it “easy” towards the end of the run. Try it and see what you think.

    I don’t know how hard those long races are as I’ve never done one. My preferred Saturday training is a hard session followed by steady state because that just makes the steady-state so much harder. For example you could do a 30 to 40 minute race and then jump into a steady-state efforts. Like the Ottawa ride that is 2.5. 

    Another option will be to try the ODZ rides, which start steady and then finish with a 5 to 12 minute effort.   That is a sneaky way to get in some good quality work but also a small bit of intensity which is more than sufficient at the end of the ride!  That is a sneaky way to get in some good quality work but also a small bit of intensity which is more than sufficient at the end of the road! 

    Definitely add in more rest on the video two sessions so that the kicker maps to the effort you’re supposed to be doing for the training. That’ll make a big difference.

    Finally, yes to run frequency. Time and TRP is almost negligible so I totally endorse that. What we want to avoid his time at a temple piece that’s just too hard to prevent recovery but not hard enough to create adaptation. 
  • edited January 16, 2018 10:08PM
    @Coach Patrick


    Thanks!  This is pretty much exactly what I was expecting you to say.

    Here is a funny/odd thing about biking on the trainer.

    I can not, no matter what sustain aero for any length of time.  Period.  A couple minutes, max.  I just can't do it.  No idea why.  But even after months in the garage on the trainer out of aero, I can go do a 3 hour ride on the road and stay in aero the entire time right out the gate.  Likely has something to do with the rigidity of the trainer and being locked like a statute in position vs the subtle and continual changes, no matter how small that are constantly happening on the road.  So I'm riding upright most of the time.

    I'll throw my road bike on the trainer tonight and see how the session goes.   

    The steady state stuff on the Saturday ride is what drives me nuts.  Locking in and holding at X Watts for 60 or 70 minutes is difficult for me.  I'm very scatterbrained and my ADD/OCD kicks in pretty quick.  I like the intervals that precede the steady state.  My mind is engaged and I have bigger watt targets to hit and hold, then recover and repeat.  Then I hop into a 45 minute to little over an hour race for the steady state as it ends up being a steady state ride as I'm trying to hold watts.  But my mind is engaged and that provides a distraction from the effort being employed. 

    I wouldn't say I have a great work ethic or that I am different than anyone else.  I'm actually pretty damn lazy.  Ask my wife.  LOL.  But one thing that motivates me a great deal is money.  If I'm laying out money for a product or service (EN, race entry, Zwift, smart trainer, etc...), I'm going to do my best to get the most out of the product, and to perform as best I can on race day.  I don't sign up for a race to 'finish' or to have fun.  I sign up to race.  And honestly, I love training more than racing.  Ya, racing is awesome.  But the day in day out activity and hopefully progress is what drives me more than showing up on race day and killing it.  Like IM Raleigh last year. Missed my goal by 27 seconds.  For a lot of people that would be devastating and they would endlessly beat themselves up over it and get really down on themselves.  Didn't bother me.  Had a great day.  But more importantly, I had a great journey leading up to race day. 

    A few years ago when I signed up for my first Ironman, my college roommate posted on my FB wall to enjoy the journey because sometimes the destination isn't as great as getting there.  He was right. 
  • @Brian Terwilliger -  I hear you on the aero position thing indoors. I can do a better job of it in season, but it’s very clear to me that when I drop in the bars I simply can’t hold a decent number of Watts and that really annoys the shit out of me.  B)

     The trick I use for the steady-state is to time my animals so that I’m done in time to join us Debbie Wright. So on Saturday for example, there are two good study rides… One at 8 AM and one at 8:35 AM. So I make sure my intervals are done and then I join that ride and all I’m trying to do a stick a wheel and pay attention to what’s going on around me and the time seems to fly by.  Until, of course, I get dropped out of that group because my legs won’t turn in circles anymore. 

    I hear you on the Training vs Racing thing. I do love the process… I think that’s part of excellence in our space. If you don’t love the inputs and what you do every day, you’re not going to be able to generate what you want on race day. It’s been a fun reminder for me watching your progress and approach to our training style. Onward!
  • @Coach Patrick

    Well, its test week.  Today was FTP test.  I bailed.  Having stomach issues and I knew the evil of the test was not a good idea.  So just did a relaxed TRP 5 miles.  185 miles for the month so far!  I haven't ran that many miles since marathon training in Early 2016.  Tomorrow is 5K TT if I am feeling good and stomach better.  If not, another lazy 5 at TRP or more.  Though weather might force a cancellation of test.  Supposed to be low 30s with double digit wind.  I think a time trial into such a headwind repeatedly on a slightly less than .5 mile oval is a futile effort.  I don't think even on a miracle day my zones will drop more than a few seconds.  I just really want to attack one and see if I can break 19.  Will do the FTP test on Thursday if all systems are back to normal.  If not, will do a Zwift race, or interval ride as best I can.  

    If I'm not able to get in an FTP test, I'm just gonna bump my FTP in Zwift and the zone calculator by 10/15 watts to make sure I'm doing harder work than the past 5 weeks.  

    While initially this OS I was pumped and really wanting to destroy myself on the bike and get my FTP up as much as possible, I've mentally abandoned that and really dialed in on run durability.  I think the bike will come along nearly as much by doing the work, even with slightly less focus, but the run durability will pay bigger dividends down the road this season.  And once the heat of summer kicks in, the "fast" running will be fastish, but the volume can remain up.  But the bike can really be hammered, both on the trainer and the road.  Reality is, once its in the 90/100s with 90% humidity, tank emptying, fast running isn't on the table like it is now.  But all out bike work is. 

    Krispy Kreme Challenge on Saturday!  Run 2.5 miles, eat a dozen doughnuts (2,400 calories), Run 2.5 miles.  Unfortunately going to be 25 degrees!  Doughnuts are gonna be a bit hard. Gonna have to do a big bike session after that to burn off the sugar and calories.  

  • @Brian Terwilliger - Thanks for the update. I think you take the great workouts when you have the opportunity. Between juggling the weather and fatigue, it’s not really possible to hit every session full gas.

    And honestly, hitting every session full gas isn’t necessarily the best way to be better. Just like you’re doing now with your testing, bide your time… That one or two days a week when you feel awesome then go light it up. Otherwise, nice and study on the run is going to pay huge dividends this year I promise.

     We definitely need to see some pictures from this challenge, it sounds epic! I expect nothing but your best possible effort. 

     :p 
  • edited February 5, 2018 8:48PM

    Well, did my first swim this morning since Chattanooga.  Took it easy, but still got sore.  Long way to go to get back into swim shape.  #SwimmingSucks

    https://www.strava.com/activities/1392691917

    Finally got around to starting a rocker board for the trainer.  Going with the Pillow Rockers with a center pivot and those little yoga balance pod things.  Will see how it goes.  Following Doug's design I saw on the Zwift thread. 

    Last year I was able to knock out 100+ milers on Zwift with zero saddle issues.  So much so that I rarely ever even used any lube!   This year I can't go even a short ride without some discomfort, and sometimes it gets pretty extreme.  Don't get it. 

  • You are an evil evil man.  Week 11 OS Bike, 4 x 4' Z5.  Damn near ripped my legs off.  Was everything I had to not go into the spiral of death the last minute of the 4th one.  

    But on the bright side, ran a 5K at TRP off the bike and it was effortless and I really had to force myself to not go faster.
  • Swimming sucks. 

    I'm a pool swimmer far more than an open water swimmer.  My speed is far greater in a pool, flip turns and acceleration off the wall aside.  I was always a 100 and 200 yard specialist.   I'm also more of a glider with a longer stroke vs a higher turnover, and what I call a "power stroke".  And open water is clearly more of a turnover game than a power/glide game.  I cover great distance per stroke and really attack the water on the pull.  I'm not a big fan of SWOLF and really don't pay any attention to it, nor know what it really means in reality.  Swims this week had it at 29.  As I get back into swim shape and more efficient, it isn't unusual to see it down around 26.  In the real world and not the 'theory' world on swimming, what does this actually mean and is it good, bad, or indifferent?  

    I also float very well.  Have a very high hip and leg position in the water.  So much so that I don't even bother with a buoy when doing pull drills.  So where am I going with this?

    As triathletes we are always told to do an easy 2 or 4 beat kick to keep our ass and legs high and "in the tube" but not so much for propulsion purposes.  And also to "save our legs" for the bike, which is in reality a bit of a myth in my opinion.  However, here is my conundrum.  When I am in a wet suit, my ass and legs are literally so high in the water from the added buoyancy that I can't kick much at all as my feet are basically out of the water.  Hey, no problem, I'm floating and gliding along nicely.  But outside of my Olympic and Sprint race the 3rd weekend in April, the chances of any of my other races being wetsuit legal are hovering around zero at best.

    So again, where am I going?  Being that I was a short distance specialist I have a very powerful kick.  Like stupid powerful.  When I get into the swing of things with swim training, I can easily knock out a 10 x 100 kick set and have them all come in under 1:20 without much effort, and likely push them all close to or under 1:15. 

    I find that less kicking and more propulsion from my stroke leaves me more stressed cardio wise.  Should I ignore basically the entire history of triathlon training advice and race the swim via a powerful kick and thus drop some of the swim sets and replace them with kick sets?  And how much will the increased training and work the legs will put in doing so translate over to bike and run power?  Or is the standard advice of an easy kick truly gospel and I'm just looking at setting myself up for a very sad bike from utilizing a strong kick?

  • Got a Milestone foot pod.  Gonna give this Zwift Running thing a try.  And why not.  I love the treadmill.
  • @Brian Terwilliger - lots o' updates!!!  Good to hear the VO2 is crushing you...and that your run is just dialed in. Although it could be all those donuts kicking in too. :lol:

    As for the swim, I think you are in a unique zip code being a life-long swimmer, in that you (1) know how to kick (2) are already in a good body position in the water (3) know your swim "rhythm" and how to get into it. 

    The warnings about kicking are for folks who know none of that stuff. Period. They kick but don't float. They kick but don't pull. You get the idea. 

    I think as long as you aren't kicking for propulsion purposes but rather to maintain your personal happy stroke pace, then go for it!

    ~ Coach P
  • edited March 15, 2018 3:30PM


    Alright, OS done.  Swim camp coming to a close with 1,000 TT tomorrow.  Monday starts training for IM Raleigh 70.3 June 3rd.  Not my A+ race, but an A race none the less that I want to perform well at. A+ race is the White Lake Half Iron in early Sept.

    When my season roadmap was built way back in ancient times, none of the new 70.3 plans had been released.  Still only had the 3 level plans from 2017 and you had picked EN Advanced Half. 

    Between the 2018 Bike and Run focus options, whats your suggestion?  I'll probably end up mashing them together to fit whatever that week/days schedule has time for.  But which do you suggest/prefer to be the base plan I work off of?  Or stick with the original 2017 advanced half?

    And file this away for the not so distant future discussion.

    My wife is a ultra/mega planner, and the family CFO.  Her nickname is The Keeper of the Calendar and Controller of the Currency.  Thus 2019 believe it or not will soon need to be planned, booked, and budgeted.   

    The year will be starting out with this Decembers marathon on Dec 8th at Kiawah Island South Carolina.    Thus ample recovery before diving into the OS.  My initial thoughts were to do the January OS and finish it with the Rock N Roll Half Marathon in Raleigh that is usually the first weekend in April (its the 8th this year).  Skip IM Raleigh 70.3 in 2019 and volunteer.  Find a fall or mid/late summer IM within reasonable driving distance of Raleigh that will best suit my build, skills, and race style.  Maryland is tempting.  I've done it before.  As long as there isn't huge wind (which there will be), the course really lays out nice for someone like me that can just get in the bars, stay there, and crank out watts.  And that flat run, oh that flat run.  Plus the swim can be a nightmare for non-superstar swimmers like myself.  Advantage, me. 

    But who knows, maybe another race would be better suited for me.  Not sure I can buck up for BestBikeSplit to keep running various scenarios through it to pick a race. 

    Outside option I've tried to get her to consider.  IM Cozumel.  Go race, then take a vacation to recover afterward.  Good race?  Well suited to me?  TriBike Transport or other company to get my bike there and back?  I'm not a mechanic and the P5 is not simple to work on so need to buck up for the pros to do it.  Or race it as a 2nd IM for revenge if the first one goes south.  Or just as a 2nd one to try and crush if the first one goes awesome!  Budgeting 2 IMs may pose an issue, but one of them as a 'vacation' would make it more sellable if we wanted to go with the 2 IM season.
  • Thought about bailing on the 1,000 yard TT this morning.  Didn't.  Destroyed myself on a 25 mile Zwift race last night.  Nearly vomited.  Then ate a mountain of fried cheese as a recovery snack. 

    1:22/100 for the TT.  Could have gone faster.  I'll take it since I was wiped out from Zwift and poor eating and the 4:30 AM alarm clock.  Been averaging 1:16/100 for those 50 yard drills the past two weeks.  So only a 6 second increase when extending to 1,000 yards and not giving it 110% effort. 

  • Trainer/Saddle sore tip that some may find useful if anyone comes to you with issues.

    As a long time ultralight backpacker, one of the tried and true blister prevention methods is to put an immoveable layer between the skin and whatever is/will be rubbing up against it.  Duct Tape has always been the hikers go to material for a ton of reasons.

    So I started thinking.  Why wouldn't this work for the bike?  And no, I didn't wrap myself in duct tape.  What I did was put short strips of KT Tape over the areas that were being affected.  I knew KT tape was likely to stand up to the punishment and conditions.  If people can wear this stuff for days on end without it peeling, surely I can get it to stay in place for a hour or 3.  And BOOM!  Fixed.
  •  As always, thank you for the update. Please do not send me any pictures of your taping application! I’m super happy that you found something that works, at least that way we can keep up the good work.

    I’m really pumped with how hard you’re able to continue pushing on the bike I’m glad that we saw that Traynor thinks even continue playing yourself there. Believe it or not, I think you’re going to be more ready for your early-season half and you believe, but I understand it will take time for you to go outside and see if the numbers will translate to the open road. 
     I think I’d like to see you go with the bike focused plan since you do have a long season and you are really ripping up the bike. In other words, I think you are already running at such a high level that extra running is not going to make a meaningful difference for you.

    I am both intimidated and jealous of what happens from a financial perspective in your house! For me, I really like the idea of you doing something like Maryland. The X factor is the weather, which could be fine or simply awful.  The wind will only ruin your bike split, you are aero enough and strong enough that it’s not going to ruin your day.

     I also like the flexibility that gives you earlier in the year related to shorter events that you seem to always come up with after you finalize a fixed schedule with me! :-) 

    You could set Cozumel up as a fallback race, and do the quick transition piece like I did last year. It works surprisingly well and was mentally harder than it was physically. Fortunately for you you have the mental toughness of about 600 people so I don’t think that will be an issue. If you’re happy with Maryland you can always just go and have a great vacation!

  • edited April 7, 2018 10:33AM

    I'm back!  Sorta.  Been out of it for a while.  I've decided to throw in the towel on the White Lake Olympic and Sprint races April 21st and 22nd.  Oh, I'll still be doing them, I'm just not "racing" them.  Have had a lengthy string of bad luck and freak accidents that have cause some bad injuries, including a broken big toe.  While I could sorta ride the bike and swim, running just wasn't possible and had to take a little time off.  I've broken this toe a few times previous and honestly, it never truly heals.  And anything short of surgery to immobilize and fuze the bones in place and it won't heal, and I'm not willing to do that.  Had a crazy calf issue and went for therapy and dry needling.   Then the flu ravaged the house.  So I've lost a ton of training ground, fitness, and body comp.  So I'm just gonna go try to have fun and get some points toward the series championship at White Lake.

    Did a run Wed in Z1 to see if the foot could take it and how the calf was doing.  Went well.  So did another short run yesterday in Z2.  Went good.  Didn't die.  Pain minimal.  So I'm hoping to be back in the saddle for a full menu of training starting Monday after I try to put in some time on the bike this weekend.

    Any advice on jump starting and getting the training and confidence level back up?

    IM Raleigh coming up on June 3rd.  I'm miles behind on my fitness compared to where I was last year at this time prior to Raleigh.  While Raleigh is not my A race for the year, its an important race to me that I'd like to not embarrass myself at.

    And when we doing an organized Team EN race up ADZ?
  • I was wondering where you went to. Sorry to hear about all that misfortune. Hopefully you’re able to get it all out-of-the-way and wonderful soup!

    June 3 sounds close but it’s not terrible. The fastest path back is low intensity and lots of frequency. If you can do it two or 3 mile run a day for 8 to 10 days in a row here and Fitness will come back quite quickly. Nothing fast just get out and run recover and repeat.

    We can do a little more on the bike especially going longer but again no intensity for the first week. If we can get you through three rides for a total of 41/2 hours, the next week you’ll be able to hit intensity in at least one of those sessions. 

    Honestly, another reason to stay away from the intensity is just making sure that your calf stays happy. Are you able to swim without issues? Let me know!
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