that loop oops Execution is my favorite, and well done on your part. Be nice to your friends this weekend!!
I'm wholly disorganized. My slave driving wife is the Keeper of the Calendar and Schedule Master and plans crap down to the minute 6 months out and forces me to let her know what my "training" is so she can put it on her google calendar, iCal, the family google calendar, and in her 3 hard copy notebook calendars.
My friends bailed on me! One forgot she is the lead bike for 5K on Saturday morning. So it will be a normalish training ride. Though there are a couple segments I have wanted the crown on for a couple years. Got 4th overall (8 seconds from crown) a couple weeks ago on the one I really want. So I'll probably do some segment chasing in loop 1 and just ride steady upper Z2 loop 2.
An alternate option I am looking at is to do the warm-up and 4 x 10' Z4 on the trainer as there is just no way I can get 10 minutes of uninterrupted power at 275 watts out on the road, let alone for 4 repeats. Then going out onto the road for a 34 mile loop from my driveway. I really want the hardcore interval work, but know I need more actual time in the sun and on pavement. Tough balance. Though it will probably end up being heavy rain and I'm stuck on the trainer. Which is fine by me.
Tires. I run GP 4000 II. Put a new set on last year a little prior to IM Choo. The race wheels then sat in their storage/travel bags until White Lake in April. Then back in bag, and back on bike for Raleigh 70.3 in June and Triangle Sprint in July.
Would putting new tires on for the Half Iron on Sept 8th be beneficial? Or not make any bit of difference?
Had a surprisingly good ride on Saturday after absolutely destroying myself attacking Alp du Zwift on Thursday night and up early for Friday's swim. I think cloud cover and lower temps helped, though the dew point was still in the 70s and sweat rate was very high. But more surprisingly, a great run off the bike. 4.25 miles at 7:45 pace keeping HR in check.
Race rehearsal next weekend. Will set up bike as if race day and attack the day like its a race. Easy pace swim as lake is warm warm warm. Bike, probably 5 miles low Z2 to get moving, then try to hold Z3 as best I can given traffic, red lights, intersection caution, controlling climbs, and free riding some of the down hills. Its a far hillier route than race day. Then hop off, get bike secured in car and take off for a 10K and see how it goes.
Think I have nutrition pretty dialed in. Infinit Go Far with the strength based on conditions. If its hot like suspected, mix it a little thin to get in more liquid without overloading on calories, add base salt to the bottles to up sodium, and a couple gels the last hour to load up a few extra calories to fuel the beginning of the run.
You are firing on all cylinders my friend. The fact you can bounce back after a tough Thursday session like that is really promising.
No need to change those tires at all, they are fine but I would get new ones for next year so you can demote them to your training tires after the half.
Time to start thinking on your taper and what’s the right plan for you.
For taper, just planning on following plan as written (2017 EN*Half, Minimalist, 12 Weeks, Advanced). Will continue to do the Tue and Thurs rides on Zwift and hitting them hard, and the Saturday ride on the road as close to the workout as written as I can. Though after this week there is only 1 Saturday ride, and the Thursday ride is 2 days before race day, so go a touch easy on that. Get more sleep. I never get enough. And attempting to control my diet as best I can. Always a struggle. I think those last two items are the most important.
For the Sunday long run I think I will continue to ignore proscribed zones and intervals as they are often not doable and just continue to run steady and hold various HR targets ignoring pace as best I can. The humidity makes anything else exceptionally difficult. As an example, this morning the dew point was 74. Attempting to run long and fast in such is asking for trouble. I may delay this Sunday's long run until afternoon as the dew point will be much lower, though the temp will be higher. Plus then I will be able to sleep in a bit, rest up, have a big breakfast and just lounge around like a bum for a while. Doing 64 miles in a race rehearsal on Saturday morning then attending to mandatory family things the rest of the day and evening will not make for a good run at the crack of dawn Sunday. So later in day will provide better benefits.
Great swim Monday morning. Destroyed yesterdays bike (4 x 12' Z4) and had a good 2 mile run off the bike. Pretty good 3,600 yards this morning as well. Kinda just worked on maintaining my reach and catch with a good finish past my hip and didn't worry about my pace. Long and strong is how I describe my stroke/form. Much like my run, cadence is not all that high, particularly for the paces I can produce. Upper 80's with dew point in the 70s forecasted for when I do tonights run. 5 x 3' Z5 is likely not going to happen. Will probably just smooth 45 minutes to an hour, or throw in a some Z3 intervals if its not too oppressive out. 90' bike tomorrow on the trainer. Just gonna tool around London on Zwift and not hurt myself too bad. Want to set myself up for a good day Saturday.
Now to just stay healthy, not do anything stupid, and feed the machine.
Regardless of how the race rehearsal goes on Saturday, here is my race plan for White Lake Half Iron on Saturday Sept 8th.
Wake up 4:30ish. Coffee, breakfast, sit on my butt. 6:00ish, go rack bike (not done night before at this race) and lay out my stuff. Back to room to relax. Its 100 yards from start line. 6:40, go turn on bike computer, hit quick swim (maybe), sneak to front of line at start (hopefully).
Gun time: 7:00 AM. Time Trial Start. Will delay my arrival to the start line as long as possible. Get in a short warm up swim if I feel like it. Then try to sneak my butt up to the very front of the line and try to be one of the very first people off the dock. White Lake is a very shallow lake. I believe its 9' at its deepest. Will test out the water entry off the dock on Friday to determine if its a jump in or dive in start. Hopefully dive in. I am expecting water temps in the mid 80's at best. Goal is to swim it slow and steady, take just over 31 minutes likely. If I come in faster than that I will be a bit concerned. If I come in closer to 33 I will have taken it too easy, but won't have gassed myself so will be ready for the bike right at the mount line. But 31-32 is the target to keep the HR down and not get all heated up in the bath water.
T1: 300 yard run from water exit to entrance. Then about another 100 yards to the bike and bike exit. Under 2:30 will make me very happy. Plan is throw cap and goggles on ground, clean feet a little (transition is grass and dirt), shoes on, helmet on, flip visor down, head out.
Bike: Going off a lowered FTP of 280 to not shoot for too high of a watts target, but going over planned watts won't be a big problem. Advertised as pancake flat. This is a lie. Its a long continuous false flat, particularly the first 20 miles. First 5 miles I plan on holding @200 and let the animals go. And they will. After that, try to hold between 220 and 230 and monitor HR. Its been climbing a bit lately on outdoor rides. But then they have been in a sauna. Will try to keep it under 135, but am comfortable with a drift above it a little if needed to hold watts. If HR stays in check and I feel good, at mile 40 try to maintain watts above 230 until the finish. Course is known for heavy winds. If they have stayed in check, will really push the last 5 miles, get the HR up a little and the legs angry. I tend to start a run off the bike really well when this is the case. I'd love to go sub 2:30. If the wind is down, that's the goal. Feet out of shoes about a mile to go.
Fuel plan is simple. Slightly thin Infinit Go Far with added Base Salt, 3 bottles. Will probably not finish them. 1st bottle is normal. Bottle 2 and 3 will have caffeine added. Plan to suck down at least 2 GU the last hour.
T2: Throw bike on rack, helmet on towel, socks on, shoes on, grab hydration belt and go bag and head out. Under 1:30 will be a miracle. Under 2 and I am happy.
Run: First 1.5 miles is a false flat / actual uphill, slightly. Target 135 HR, get hydration belt on, then worry about race belt with bib, headband, sunglasses, race saver bags, and stuffing GU and Base in my kits pockets. I have a little over a mile to the first aid station to do this before I need to ditch the bag in the garbage. So no rush. Just settle in and get it done.
On course hydration is off brand garbage and water and coke. Don't believe there is any Redbull. Will have GE mixed slightly strong, but not too much and will carry 4 9oz bottles. This, on a normal day, will safely get me through a half. Supplementing with Coke should get me to the finish. If not, well, that's that. Shouldn't be an issue though. Hope to have the stomach to eat a GU at 2, 4, and 6 to preload for the last 5K when its too late for fuel to actually hit the system. If the stomach stays good, will try another at 10.
Goal is sub 1:45. Start run at 135 HR for the first 2 miles, then allow a bump to 140 for a mile or 2, then its 145ish till 10, and then its game on.
Alternate run plan. After the first couple miles throw HR out the window and just go.
Overall goal is sub 5. Win 45-49 AG.
I figure a 32 swim, 2:35 bike, and sub 1:45 run and I've got it with good transitions.
Thoughts? Ideas?
Anything I should focus the 2 weeks following tomorrow rehearsal this Saturday leading into the race? What should I avoid the temptation to do? Besides eat all the things.
That is a textbook race plan, I love it! I like all of the considerations for temperature and conditions. I think that will be your saving grace on race day.
At this point, I don’t but you need to push anything hard on the weekends. I would keep the mid week sessions hard to stay sharp
Maybe practice a transition or two this weekend? To speed up that portion of your day? Otherwise stay hydrated and do your best to sleep!
I have no idea how it happened, but had the best race rehearsal and likely best training day ever. I almost wish it would have been a total collapse disaster of a day. But it was perfection start to finish. That scares me.
Up 4:15, breakfast, half a pot of coffee, lounge around. Head out to the lake and get there at 6:30. Blow up my pull buoy, put on goggles and cap and get in the water. Take a piss, let GPS lock on, ask myself why the hell I do this, and off I go. Watch dings every 500 yards so I know where I'm at. Just smoothing it. Water is warm. Not racing, not really trying. Just getting in the yards. Hit 1,100 and turn around. Continue just smoothing it and trying to site a bit on the gap in the trees at the boat ramp I swim from. Stroke stroke stroke. Hit the ramp, hit stop. 2,201 yards, 33:31. Damn thats slow I think. But wasn't going for time. Just a little fatigue before the bike.
Go get bike out of car, and get ready to go. Head on out, and I can't see. Visor is all dirty and shit, turn around, back to car, clean it, and get back to rolling. Oh great, my shifting is garbage and its jumping cogs, won't go into the biggest cog, this is gonna suck but it is what it is. 2 miles in I hear my break pad rubbing on my front wheel, hard. Good lord. Am I going to get this ride in? Think about bailing, doing the Sunday run and coming back tomorrow for another attempt. Hop off, adjust brakes, back at it.
Long story short, with tons of issues, like the above, bottle launches, etc... and the time that slow rolling numerous train tracks, intersections, traffic issues, and having a lot of climbing that was done really slow in the little ring cause I couldn't get into my 28, I freaking crushed it and was less than a minute from my 56 mile PR at IM Raleigh last year with near identical climbing.
224 avg watts, 231 NP, IF .82, TSS 177 (based off lowered 280 FTP). And I honestly felt like I was out for a joy ride. Did not feel like work. Avg HR 129. 21.6 MPH avg. And there are a lot of long slow sections on this route.
I really set out to evenly pace and keep steady. Being that I looped the course twice, I can compare segments from loop 1 to 2. Some are dead on exact to the second, many others are just a couple seconds apart. When I got off the bike I really felt like I hadn't rode. Only went through about 50 ounces of liquid (Infinit, mixed a little thin, and 2 GU packs in the last 45 minutes). It wasn't a sauna today.
The run, OMG the run! My HR was all over the place. I blame the optical sensor. It just wouldn't settle and stick to a number or even a close range. So I just ran at what felt super easy, like going for a Sunday jog. Running off the bike is not my specialty. I kept looking at my watch to see if the HR would settle, it wouldn't, but kept noticing the pace. I was in shock. I was literally just jogging along, my breathing felt like I was on the couch, not sweating, couldn't even feel my heart beating. 7:28 pace for 10K. Unreal. To the best of my memory, this is by far the best run off the bike of 6 miles I have ever had. There may be 1 or 2 last year that were faster, but no doubt my RPE was far far far higher on those and I was really having to work hard to do it. This run was a breeze. Which concerns me.
As stated earlier, all of this concerns the hell out of me. Did I blow my wad and now race day I'm gonna crumble? I don't think so, but the thought nags at me.
But it also posses a conundrum that I will need to wrestle with.
The White Lake bike, while there are a lot of long false flats, has zero actual climbing. There really isn't a single "hill". Am I aiming too low on watts? Should I just throw caution to the wind, bike the could and not the should (to some extent, not like a time trial) and gamble on the run?
Of course, if its 95 degrees (which it might be, or the winds are high as the course is known for) everything goes out the window and it becomes a day of not blowing up, and a war of attrition with those who go to hard and die.
I don’t think we change room much for you on the bike. You are strong and ready to execute. With other riders around you, you will simply be faster. I would prefer that you save your mojo for that run when you will need to be a little more dynamic.
That said, you almost need to run the run the same way. The challenge on race day is taking out that first one or 2 miles to hot. You need to be patient here so you could be excellent in the second half.
Weeks plan. Did the swim yesterday as written on plan (EN Half Minimalist, 12 weeks, Advanced). Doing tonights bike as written and run as best as possible in the sauna that is the weather. Will do the same for tomorrows run. With a Saturday race (vs Plan written to a Sunday race), doing Thursdays swim as written, but dialing Thursday nights bike back a few watts to not impart too much stress but still require a decent effort. Friday is sleep in, pack car, and travel to race site. About 2 hour drive or a little less. Get checked in, unpack car and set up my room. Knock out a little swim to gauge temp and how it feels. They will post water temp sometime Thursday. Will be warm. How warm is the question. Will check out the water entry from the dock to see if its a dive in or jump in. Hopefully dive. Shower up, mix bottles, snack, and hydrate with vodka.
Race plan still seems to be unchanged from what I wrote before. But it will all come down to how I 'feel' and how my body is responding to the days conditions. And while the weatherman is often a filthy liar, current forecast is for hot with thunderstorms. Hopefully just rain if there are storms. Lightning would probably lead to cancellation.
Any goals, targets, metrics, benchmarks, or things I should shoot for and hit that will make coach proud?
I can’t think of any specific metrics that matter. At the end of the day I’m just looking to see if you can build your effort on the bike and the run. So I want to make sure that I see smart starts and strong finishes. The last thing you want to have is that you go big early and then feet across the rest of the day. Even if you aren’t fast by the clock standards, you can at least stack the deck in your favor and have a very well executed race.
remember, there’s very little correlation between how good you feel and how fast you were going on race day. I think you’re going to be in a new ZIP Code in terms of fitness in race performance as they intersect on the day. So don’t focus too much on the outcomes just do your best with where you are at that given time, make the best possible decision about pacing and Nutrition. All we need is for things to come together for the last 5 miles of that race on the run. We can get to that point, it’s lights out for the competition because no one is mentally tougher than you!
There are no real goals regarding work out this week. All the workouts are designed to just keep it loose and fresh, so if you need to take a day off or two there’s no harm in it. Nobody ever showed up to raceday too rested!
Lets skip all the pre-race nonsense and get right to race day.
4 AM Wake up, breakfast, lay down and relax. My room is literally less than 50 yards from the swim start and no more than 200 yards from Transition. 6 AM I go and rack bike and lay my stuff out. Go back to room and relax. 6:40 I get in the water, swim for a minute or two and then just hang out. Climb the ladder out of the water and get in line for the time trial start. About 10th in line. It’s a jump start as the water is less than 3 feet deep, no diving.
The Swim: Water temp, 90 freaking degrees! Yes, you read that right. 90 degrees. Its gonna be a hot, slow swim. Any effort above easy will result in being cooked. So just smoothed it but could tell even at the relaxed pace I was feeling the effects of the hot water. Climb up the ladder to the dock and cross the timing mat, look at watch, 33:XX. Slooooow. But in reality, maybe a touch faster than I should have gone. I could tell on the 300 yard run to T1 my HR was up, and I was feeling it. Official swim time 33:27
T1: Bing bang boom, cap and googles down, glasses on, helmet on, wipe feet a little with towel as transition is grass and sand, shoes on, and off I go. 2:19. That’s fast for me.
The Bike: Goals/Targets. Break 2:30. 220ish watts. HR no higher than 135 avg.
I hit the mount like, get on, clip in, and off I go. PM turns on, connects, HR connects, all systems go. My HR is 149! Holy Shit! I’ve never seen it this high at the start of a bike. Alright, it will drop. It doesn’t. Slow down, slow down. It was over a mile before it dropped below 140, and it remained in the upper 130s until mile 10. I’m thinking this is not good. My HR is generally really low and below bike target when I get on the bike. Worst case, within a mile or two max its below and now I can work on raising it to target. Never have I had such a high HR and had to work on dropping it. Finally got below 135 after 10 miles. Avg watts is reading 215. And it stays at that number until mile 40+ It doesn’t budge. My NP is set to lap every 5. Goal is to keep NP in the low to mid 220s. Able to do it 5 mile lap after 5 mile lap. HR flat lining at 130 and stays there till mile 50. Bike is unexciting. Just hold my cadence at 90 in the gear giving me my target watts and keep on keeping on. Nothing fancy. I was 4th onto the bike initially. I got passed by 2 people total on the bike. But I repassed both of them and never saw them again. I never saw any other cyclist in front of me. I knew I wasn’t in the lead. But the 3 ahead of me were so much faster that I never caught site of them. They put up a 2:13, 2:15, and 2:16 bike split.
Bike remained uninteresting till mile 40. That’s when you take the final turn and it’s a straight 16 mile shot to the bike dismount. It’s a never ending false flat, and it’s a headwind. This is where things went a little south. My goal again was cadence of 90 and watts @220. Up until this point, my avg watts for the ride have not budged once from 215 and NP lap has remained perfect in the low 220s. That’s about to change. The combination of the false flat and headwind put me in a situation where I was between gears. The gear I can hold 90 puts my watts too low and to get the watts where I want them I have to spin too fast. The next cog down, my target watts put my cadence in the low 80s, and if I spin 90, I’m pushing 260+ watts! I can’t do that for 45 minutes and expect to have a shot at the run. So I go to the easier gear and basically flip flop back and forth between the two gears with like shot intervals at the higher power, put most of the time I’m in the easier gear despite it costing me great speed. Avg power as fallen to 213. But really, there was nothing I could do at this point. The grade/wind combo just put me into no mans land on the rear cogs.
Results: Avg Speed 23.2 MPH (was 23.4 through 40 miles till the issue above). Pwr 213. Cadence 90. Avg HR 133. Time… 2:24!!! (including a launched bottle that I turned around and picked up, easily costing me 1 minute.
T2: Dismount, go rack bike, helmet off, socks on, shoes on, go bag, and go. Time, 1:49. Fast for me again. Happy with the number.
The Run: Goal: Sub 1:45, that is the only goal.
F*ck this shit. Seriously, why do I do this? I need to find a winter sport. The temp is over 100. Its evil. There is no shade anywhere on the entire run. I’m 4th onto the run but know the other ones are way ahead of me. But maybe they got cooked and I can reel them in. Ha. That’s a joke. But you never know. Mile 1 – 3. My HR instantly shoots up when I start running. Into the 140s. Pace is 8:30 and falling. My watch often reads falsely high on the very start of the run then drops fast so I don’t worry. Keep watching it, it stays there. Pace still hovering around 8. HR still won’t budge from 140+. I decide that I’m just not going to let it climb. Avg 8:05 for first 3 miles. Mile 4 more of the same. Then the heat factor kicked in. 100+, no shade, and no amount of ice, race saver bags, ice water soaked towels, or pouring water on myself is cooling me off. I’m cooking out here. Was able to hold pace in mile 5 but the HR is climbing into mid 140s. The pace slows each mile 6, 7, and 8 as I combat heat and a climbing HR. The time at the aid stations increases trying to cool off. I’m trying to do math in my head to figure out just how slow I can run and still break 5. Math is hard. I’ve come up with a dozen answers and none of them are good. I tell myself, look jackass, you have 4 miles left, a legit shot at breaking 5 if your bad math is even close to accurate (or its so far gone that you can't run fast enough to break 5), get moving. I suck it up and mile 9 through finish line each mile was faster than the previous.
Run time: 1:52. Disappointing and a far cry from goal. I am highly disappointed.
BUT, final time 4:55:05!!! 1st in AG, 7th overall. Got passed by 3 people on the run and they were flying. There was no hanging with them.
Post race analysis and learning my slow run was actually pretty darn fast.
Overall stats.
Swim 6th fastest. Bike 6th fastest. Run 8th fastest!
Age Group stats.
Swim 1st by 2:24. Bike 2nd fastest, lost by 17 seconds, and the run… 1st by 10:18!!! This made me realize that while it was slow on the clock, stacked up against the rest of the field and against my age group, the time was actually pretty good for the days conditions.
Don’t think I would have approached anything different or executed different. Pretty much all went to plan other than the run in an oven. Could have maybe ran harder, but doing so may have caused a huge blow up in the last few miles instead of an accelerating pace.
Sub 5 goal was met. Winning AG was met. Oh, and won my AG by over 26 minutes. A successful day in every way. Other than that stupid run. One shouldn't run when its 100+ degrees out.
Next morning sprint race report.
Ha! Kidding. Got 1st in AG. End of report.
But looking at peoples numbers, it further shows that I am much better suited to long vs short and fast. The top 6 finishers all broke 19 for the 5K, including 2 sub 17 and a 15 year old kid who ripped off a 17 and change run. I can't compete against stuff like that.
Going forward. Taking this week easy. Will get in sessions starting tomorrow. Hurricane will determine if anything happens over the weekend and when I can start marathon training. But hopefully it turns into a nothing burger and I can start up next week training for Kiawah Island Marathon on Dec 8th. Now to pick a plan.
What say you and why?
Also, I see all these posts about 5K plans and new running plans and running this and running that. Do we not have access to those as I can't find them anywhere. Wondering if one of them may be better suited for my marathon than the standard ones in my menu.
I can’t tell what I’m more happy about, you’re a complete race performance or the fact that you saw you didn’t have to be world-class at each individual leg to be fast. Super pumped for you. 75 on the chorus on that day is legit. And you can’t argue with how smart you were to balance your effort against the conditions in the terrain. You may be strong but your mental acuity is the real secret weapon as far as I’m concerned.
Now is the time of year that we get more into the running, and I am a huge fan of the run durability program. No reason why we can’t target something for you like a half marathon or, if you are so inclined, something longer to keep you motivated. The key is I just don’t want to much intensity over distance for a little while. Can you do some research for me?
MD will be opening shortly as the race is next weekend. Florida still a month and a half out. Looking to lock in which IM to do next year.
MD is closer and an easier drive, but Florida has that ocean swim that gives me a bit of an advantage over others. Though I won't get any actual ocean swimming in prior to the race. The bikes and runs, flat flat flat from what I see so there really isn't a difference there. But leaning toward MD.
Unless you have a suggestion that you think would suit me better and is within reasonable driving distance.
Also, how many weeks prior to a full would be the latest one should do a half? With Raleigh no longer existing, looking at options and want to schedule appropriately.
@Brian Terwilliger - i vote you load the regular marathon plan (not balanced) to end on your marathon. lemmeno when it’s up in Final Surge and i can edit.
Note: Remember to load the weeks properly so you don’t backfill your calendar, info on help site here: www.endurancenation.us/help
i personally like FL better, i think the weather is more consistent there but it is later. you will do well at both as MD has a current as well. i think the timing is more important of a consideration.
6 weeks out or more is best. we could do four, it just means shuffling things about...
Unfortunately I don't use final surge. Maybe I should. May research. May not. I'm lazy.
Here is my plan. Run 7 days a week. Even if its just 2 miles at Z1 or slower on the "rest days". Then do the scheduled runs as best as possible. I'm still gonna Zwift. Even if its just 30 - 60 minutes twice a week Particularly on Sunday where there is just a 35' Z1 run on schedule. Knock out run, Zwift, then breakfast.
Both the balanced and 'un'balanced plan mesh up well with my schedule, so I'll give the un-balanced one a shot. I think 12 weeks is a bit on the short side to really attack a marathon, but the 70.3 training leading in should at least have me in a good spot. So I'm planning on using the training to really build a big running base and increase durability, while still shooting for a big PR on race day.
IMMD meshes up with my family life and schedule better than Fl. Plus then Florida can always be a revenge race if stuff goes wrong in MD. Or even better, Cancun for a revenge race.
So from today on out through early May here is my plan. Attack marathon training, race on Dec 8th. Take the rest of Dec to recover with continued running and add in more and more cycling. Continue this through January and start Out Season January 28th for a May 5th half marathon test race. Though "test" is being used lightly as it will likely be 90 with 100% humidity. Then we will figure out what to do between May 6th and official start of dedicated 12-16 weeks of IMMD training .
I really think a strong focus on the bike after the marathon and all the way through to IMMD is going to be my key to success. Hitting 2:24 for the bike at White Lake on what was honestly probably training at 80% of what was called for on plan was a pleasant surprise. I think with getting closer to 90% and a small bump in FTP with training to hold higher %s for long uninterrupted periods, pending the IMMD winds, going well under 5 hours could be a realistic goal and still leave me the ability to run a 3:30 to 3:45 marathon, or better with the right conditions and successful training season.
At the end of the day, IMMD is truly the singular and only focus from here on out. All things will lead to it. But a year out, even thinking like this is a bad idea, so a lot of fun stuff will be thrown in from here until July. Such as plenty of beer miles. I still say we need to have an EN Beer Mile Championship, much like the Ben & Jerrys challenge.
I already regret signing up for this marathon and I'm only 6 days into training. Kidding. Sorta.
How big of a difference is there in reality between the beginner, intermediate, and advanced levels for the marathon (un-balanced) plan? The Saturday long run seems to be identical, the Sunday short run the same. Just seems to be Wed and Thursday that are really different. Is the beginner level enough volume and fast running to realistically run a marathon at Z2 or better?
The heat and humidity is still too high to run Z3 and Z4 for any period of time. Today was the 12 miler, 2 Z1, 6 Z2, 2 Z4, and 2 Z2. Was able to do a few at Z2, but quickly HR popped well into Z5 because of conditions. I suspect they will stick around for a while. So just held upper Z5 HR until mile 11, the dropped pace to TRP/Z1 for the last mile to bring HR down a little before finishing. Thinking maybe do beginner for a few weeks then move to advanced once temps drop and can hold faster paces longer at a lower HR. Or maybe just stick with beginner and lower goals from sub 3:05 to sub 3:10 and really use this more as a durability program to set the stage. But if I show up at a race, I really want to race. I don't run races for fun. I run races to do my best.
@Brian Terwilliger I like the singular focus on Maryland, as challenging as that could be. I think your thought process for how to improve works just fine especially with the seven days of running. Hopefully your white lake experience showed you that you don’t have to be perfect for awesome every day in order to be really good on race day.
As for the marathon, if you’re looking to run a personal best then the adVance plan is the way to go. Being successful at a marathon distance run it’s just a different kettle of fish. It’s not so much the plan as it is the 12 to 18 we could build up to it. Very hard to just pack a marathon and be awesome at it.
I I think the X factor for you is the Fitness that you bring to the table from your training already. Let’s see how some of the long runs go in terms of pacing before we pass judgment.
Temps dropping a little, now only in the 80s in the evening when I run during the week. Humidity still oppressive. Especially when it rains before you run and the steam is coming off the black top. Horrible. But hit my numbers on the 2 x 1 mile and 2 by half mile repeats tonight. Saturdays long run, humidity cooperating hopefully will be a good test to see where I am at with 3 x 1.5 mile repeats at Z4 starting at mile 6. If humidity is way up, HR will be jacked and I'll just run at the highest HR I am comfortable maintaining. Hoping this heat/humidity punishment really pays off with a nice pop in pace and HR drop when the temps finally fall in a few weeks.
Questions. On the "off" days on the advanced marathon plan, how much running is too much and how fast is too fast? I've been running 2-4 and usually at Z1 or slightly slower.
Created a Final Surge account. How do I link EN to it or whatever it is we are supposed to do?
Broke down and ordered a Stryd. While I like numbers, looking at numbers, and knowing numbers, I am NOT in any way a data geek. Hell, I don't even know how to use Excel. So what and how is the best 'idiot proof' way to use this thing and derive maximum benefit? The concept and idea intrigues me. But I'm not sure that it will be exactly like a PM on the bike. Or will it? And I can tell you this. I won't be doing a 5K time trial anytime soon, if at all before the Dec 8th marathon. Realistically, to drop my zones I need to run about 30 or more seconds faster than my last test and I honestly don't know that I could ever do that. Maybe mid Nov if one is on plan, but until then, not happening. If I want to push faster paces on days I am feeling good I will do so. But an 18:40 5K to get any kind of drop in my pace zones is highly unlikely except on a day of absolute perfection. I don't need to do one to set power zones with Stryd do I?
Semi update. 14 straight days of running. 38 total miles last week. 47 this week. Now to drink beer and brew an IPA test batch. I'll have 6 kegs on tap and 4 other styles in bottles. Gotta stay hydrated!
Question: Wednesdays run (marathon , advanced) seems to be a 10 mile run, dropping to 8 until the end of the plan with a couple week exception following the next 5K test (that I won't be doing). Mostly a Z1 warming up, that varying lengths of Z4 intervals (1 and 2 miles usually).
Run club has a 2 mile loop on Wednesday nights. 1 mile down hill then 1 mile up hill. Would attacking the up and recovering on the down over and over be acceptable? While I am a total solo dog in tri training and really like being alone, when I'm knocking out 50 miles a week I like to include a few runs a week with the club to hang out and have fun afterward. And I don't get in enough hills. There is really no way to run this hill at Z4. TRP would be great.
Of course, once the Stryd comes and I figure out how to use it, I can push power on the hill. I just run on flat to small hills too much. Need to increase actual hill running. Think it will pay dividends on race day even though the race is pancake flat.
Stryd. Still trying to figure it out. Not sure its for me. But hoping. Did the 3/9 test today at the same location I do my 5K tests so there wasn't any terrain differences messing with the results. The 3 minute test came in at 281 watts and the 9 minute test came in at 275 watts (and took a strava crown on the segment). That seems really too damn close to each other. Granted, I am not a sprinter, and I am mostly a 2 speed guy. Easy and hard. But when I take the average of the two, take 90% and plug it into EN Run Power zone calculator, the values I see, if I ran those, I firmly believe I will be way way slower than my pace zones. From the runs I've done, my Z2 MP pace zone of 213-220 watts would have me running slower than my Z1 run pace.
Am I doing something wrong? Do I need to change anything? Or is power just not made for how I run?
I know you're in Kona and all. So not really expecting much unless you're using down time to reply to us peons. LOL.
Stryd has me more confused than ever. How big of a difference does the sneaker make? Not placement, cause thats the same. But the sneaker itself? Did the 3/9 test in my minimalist super fast 4 ounce track shoes (that I do run marathons in). As stated before, 3minutes came in at 281. 9 minute at 275.
Tonight, had 3 x (5' Z2 / 5' Z4 / 5' Z1) Was pushing 280 for Z2 (7:10) and over 300 for Z4 (6:44). Thats a minute SLOWER per mile pace than the 3 minute test, and 25+ watts MORE. Leads me to believe either the shoe is a huge factor as I ran in the much heavier and softer Reebok Float Ride tonight. The test was a totally screwed up by something, or the device is defective. I gonna redo the test in the same shoe I wore before. Have the beer mile championship Saturday night and am likely to party hard. So Sunday will be easy 3 or 4 miler just to log miles. Same Monday. Tuesday on plan has a 5K test. NOT doing it. Sorry. Will redo the 3/9 test to see what happens.
On the bright side, the three 5 minute segments at Z4, nailed em. My Z4 pace is 6:44. Avg. 6:43, 6:42, 6:41. Not bad. Could have ran harder, but stuck to pace and didn't push myself as I have long hill repeats tomorrow for 8 to 10 miles. Ugh.
@Brian Terwilliger - I did reply for a while until things got too overwhelming! Thanks for your patience. It is my understanding that the Stryd power meter is shoe dependent, but I’m surprised that the variances that high.
I will say that the numbers you report with your regular shoes are consistent with what I would expect for the speed and your size (you are similar to me).
I think it’s important to use the device for a couple of weeks and get a variety of data points before we go too crazy. I do recommend running in the same pair of shoes for a while and then we can see what things look like then when your test again in the future.
Also, remember that there might be other factors at play other than just power. For example, your power over three minutes maybe close to nine minutes but your cadence could be significantly higher. That’s one of the benefits of having the device is to be able to examine all the different data points not just the power to learn more about who you are as a runner.
Comments
I'm wholly disorganized. My slave driving wife is the Keeper of the Calendar and Schedule Master and plans crap down to the minute 6 months out and forces me to let her know what my "training" is so she can put it on her google calendar, iCal, the family google calendar, and in her 3 hard copy notebook calendars.
My friends bailed on me! One forgot she is the lead bike for 5K on Saturday morning. So it will be a normalish training ride. Though there are a couple segments I have wanted the crown on for a couple years. Got 4th overall (8 seconds from crown) a couple weeks ago on the one I really want. So I'll probably do some segment chasing in loop 1 and just ride steady upper Z2 loop 2.
An alternate option I am looking at is to do the warm-up and 4 x 10' Z4 on the trainer as there is just no way I can get 10 minutes of uninterrupted power at 275 watts out on the road, let alone for 4 repeats. Then going out onto the road for a 34 mile loop from my driveway. I really want the hardcore interval work, but know I need more actual time in the sun and on pavement. Tough balance. Though it will probably end up being heavy rain and I'm stuck on the trainer. Which is fine by me.
For the Sunday long run I think I will continue to ignore proscribed zones and intervals as they are often not doable and just continue to run steady and hold various HR targets ignoring pace as best I can. The humidity makes anything else exceptionally difficult. As an example, this morning the dew point was 74. Attempting to run long and fast in such is asking for trouble. I may delay this Sunday's long run until afternoon as the dew point will be much lower, though the temp will be higher. Plus then I will be able to sleep in a bit, rest up, have a big breakfast and just lounge around like a bum for a while. Doing 64 miles in a race rehearsal on Saturday morning then attending to mandatory family things the rest of the day and evening will not make for a good run at the crack of dawn Sunday. So later in day will provide better benefits.
Now to just stay healthy, not do anything stupid, and feed the machine.
Wake up 4:30ish. Coffee, breakfast, sit on my butt. 6:00ish, go rack bike (not done night before at this race) and lay out my stuff. Back to room to relax. Its 100 yards from start line. 6:40, go turn on bike computer, hit quick swim (maybe), sneak to front of line at start (hopefully).
Gun time: 7:00 AM. Time Trial Start.
Will delay my arrival to the start line as long as possible. Get in a short warm up swim if I feel like it. Then try to sneak my butt up to the very front of the line and try to be one of the very first people off the dock. White Lake is a very shallow lake. I believe its 9' at its deepest. Will test out the water entry off the dock on Friday to determine if its a jump in or dive in start. Hopefully dive in. I am expecting water temps in the mid 80's at best. Goal is to swim it slow and steady, take just over 31 minutes likely. If I come in faster than that I will be a bit concerned. If I come in closer to 33 I will have taken it too easy, but won't have gassed myself so will be ready for the bike right at the mount line. But 31-32 is the target to keep the HR down and not get all heated up in the bath water.
T1: 300 yard run from water exit to entrance. Then about another 100 yards to the bike and bike exit. Under 2:30 will make me very happy. Plan is throw cap and goggles on ground, clean feet a little (transition is grass and dirt), shoes on, helmet on, flip visor down, head out.
Bike: Going off a lowered FTP of 280 to not shoot for too high of a watts target, but going over planned watts won't be a big problem. Advertised as pancake flat. This is a lie. Its a long continuous false flat, particularly the first 20 miles. First 5 miles I plan on holding @200 and let the animals go. And they will. After that, try to hold between 220 and 230 and monitor HR. Its been climbing a bit lately on outdoor rides. But then they have been in a sauna. Will try to keep it under 135, but am comfortable with a drift above it a little if needed to hold watts. If HR stays in check and I feel good, at mile 40 try to maintain watts above 230 until the finish. Course is known for heavy winds. If they have stayed in check, will really push the last 5 miles, get the HR up a little and the legs angry. I tend to start a run off the bike really well when this is the case. I'd love to go sub 2:30. If the wind is down, that's the goal. Feet out of shoes about a mile to go.
Fuel plan is simple. Slightly thin Infinit Go Far with added Base Salt, 3 bottles. Will probably not finish them. 1st bottle is normal. Bottle 2 and 3 will have caffeine added. Plan to suck down at least 2 GU the last hour.
T2: Throw bike on rack, helmet on towel, socks on, shoes on, grab hydration belt and go bag and head out. Under 1:30 will be a miracle. Under 2 and I am happy.
Run: First 1.5 miles is a false flat / actual uphill, slightly. Target 135 HR, get hydration belt on, then worry about race belt with bib, headband, sunglasses, race saver bags, and stuffing GU and Base in my kits pockets. I have a little over a mile to the first aid station to do this before I need to ditch the bag in the garbage. So no rush. Just settle in and get it done.
On course hydration is off brand garbage and water and coke. Don't believe there is any Redbull. Will have GE mixed slightly strong, but not too much and will carry 4 9oz bottles. This, on a normal day, will safely get me through a half. Supplementing with Coke should get me to the finish. If not, well, that's that. Shouldn't be an issue though. Hope to have the stomach to eat a GU at 2, 4, and 6 to preload for the last 5K when its too late for fuel to actually hit the system. If the stomach stays good, will try another at 10.
Goal is sub 1:45. Start run at 135 HR for the first 2 miles, then allow a bump to 140 for a mile or 2, then its 145ish till 10, and then its game on.
Alternate run plan. After the first couple miles throw HR out the window and just go.
Overall goal is sub 5. Win 45-49 AG.
I figure a 32 swim, 2:35 bike, and sub 1:45 run and I've got it with good transitions.
Thoughts? Ideas?
Anything I should focus the 2 weeks following tomorrow rehearsal this Saturday leading into the race? What should I avoid the temptation to do? Besides eat all the things.
Maybe practice a transition or two this weekend? To speed up that portion of your day? Otherwise stay hydrated and do your best to sleep!
@Coach Patrick
I have no idea how it happened, but had the best race rehearsal and likely best training day ever. I almost wish it would have been a total collapse disaster of a day. But it was perfection start to finish. That scares me.
Up 4:15, breakfast, half a pot of coffee, lounge around. Head out to the lake and get there at 6:30. Blow up my pull buoy, put on goggles and cap and get in the water. Take a piss, let GPS lock on, ask myself why the hell I do this, and off I go. Watch dings every 500 yards so I know where I'm at. Just smoothing it. Water is warm. Not racing, not really trying. Just getting in the yards. Hit 1,100 and turn around. Continue just smoothing it and trying to site a bit on the gap in the trees at the boat ramp I swim from. Stroke stroke stroke. Hit the ramp, hit stop. 2,201 yards, 33:31. Damn thats slow I think. But wasn't going for time. Just a little fatigue before the bike.
Go get bike out of car, and get ready to go. Head on out, and I can't see. Visor is all dirty and shit, turn around, back to car, clean it, and get back to rolling. Oh great, my shifting is garbage and its jumping cogs, won't go into the biggest cog, this is gonna suck but it is what it is. 2 miles in I hear my break pad rubbing on my front wheel, hard. Good lord. Am I going to get this ride in? Think about bailing, doing the Sunday run and coming back tomorrow for another attempt. Hop off, adjust brakes, back at it.
Long story short, with tons of issues, like the above, bottle launches, etc... and the time that slow rolling numerous train tracks, intersections, traffic issues, and having a lot of climbing that was done really slow in the little ring cause I couldn't get into my 28, I freaking crushed it and was less than a minute from my 56 mile PR at IM Raleigh last year with near identical climbing.
224 avg watts, 231 NP, IF .82, TSS 177 (based off lowered 280 FTP). And I honestly felt like I was out for a joy ride. Did not feel like work. Avg HR 129. 21.6 MPH avg. And there are a lot of long slow sections on this route.
I really set out to evenly pace and keep steady. Being that I looped the course twice, I can compare segments from loop 1 to 2. Some are dead on exact to the second, many others are just a couple seconds apart. When I got off the bike I really felt like I hadn't rode. Only went through about 50 ounces of liquid (Infinit, mixed a little thin, and 2 GU packs in the last 45 minutes). It wasn't a sauna today.
The run, OMG the run! My HR was all over the place. I blame the optical sensor. It just wouldn't settle and stick to a number or even a close range. So I just ran at what felt super easy, like going for a Sunday jog. Running off the bike is not my specialty. I kept looking at my watch to see if the HR would settle, it wouldn't, but kept noticing the pace. I was in shock. I was literally just jogging along, my breathing felt like I was on the couch, not sweating, couldn't even feel my heart beating. 7:28 pace for 10K. Unreal. To the best of my memory, this is by far the best run off the bike of 6 miles I have ever had. There may be 1 or 2 last year that were faster, but no doubt my RPE was far far far higher on those and I was really having to work hard to do it. This run was a breeze. Which concerns me.
As stated earlier, all of this concerns the hell out of me. Did I blow my wad and now race day I'm gonna crumble? I don't think so, but the thought nags at me.
But it also posses a conundrum that I will need to wrestle with.
The White Lake bike, while there are a lot of long false flats, has zero actual climbing. There really isn't a single "hill". Am I aiming too low on watts? Should I just throw caution to the wind, bike the could and not the should (to some extent, not like a time trial) and gamble on the run?
Of course, if its 95 degrees (which it might be, or the winds are high as the course is known for) everything goes out the window and it becomes a day of not blowing up, and a war of attrition with those who go to hard and die.
It’s always something isn’t it! :-)
I don’t think we change room much for you on the bike. You are strong and ready to execute. With other riders around you, you will simply be faster. I would prefer that you save your mojo for that run when you will need to be a little more dynamic.
That said, you almost need to run the run the same way. The challenge on race day is taking out that first one or 2 miles to hot. You need to be patient here so you could be excellent in the second half.
I am very excited to see you race
.
Swim skin. Worth the money?
Never mind, decided to pass.
not for you!!!
Its race week!
I'm tired, so tired.
Weeks plan. Did the swim yesterday as written on plan (EN Half Minimalist, 12 weeks, Advanced). Doing tonights bike as written and run as best as possible in the sauna that is the weather. Will do the same for tomorrows run. With a Saturday race (vs Plan written to a Sunday race), doing Thursdays swim as written, but dialing Thursday nights bike back a few watts to not impart too much stress but still require a decent effort. Friday is sleep in, pack car, and travel to race site. About 2 hour drive or a little less. Get checked in, unpack car and set up my room. Knock out a little swim to gauge temp and how it feels. They will post water temp sometime Thursday. Will be warm. How warm is the question. Will check out the water entry from the dock to see if its a dive in or jump in. Hopefully dive. Shower up, mix bottles, snack, and hydrate with vodka.
Race plan still seems to be unchanged from what I wrote before. But it will all come down to how I 'feel' and how my body is responding to the days conditions. And while the weatherman is often a filthy liar, current forecast is for hot with thunderstorms. Hopefully just rain if there are storms. Lightning would probably lead to cancellation.
Any goals, targets, metrics, benchmarks, or things I should shoot for and hit that will make coach proud?
I can’t think of any specific metrics that matter. At the end of the day I’m just looking to see if you can build your effort on the bike and the run. So I want to make sure that I see smart starts and strong finishes. The last thing you want to have is that you go big early and then feet across the rest of the day. Even if you aren’t fast by the clock standards, you can at least stack the deck in your favor and have a very well executed race.
remember, there’s very little correlation between how good you feel and how fast you were going on race day. I think you’re going to be in a new ZIP Code in terms of fitness in race performance as they intersect on the day. So don’t focus too much on the outcomes just do your best with where you are at that given time, make the best possible decision about pacing and Nutrition. All we need is for things to come together for the last 5 miles of that race on the run. We can get to that point, it’s lights out for the competition because no one is mentally tougher than you!
There are no real goals regarding work out this week. All the workouts are designed to just keep it loose and fresh, so if you need to take a day off or two there’s no harm in it. Nobody ever showed up to raceday too rested!
@Coach Patrick
White Lake Half Iron. 4:55:05! That is all. 1st in AG. Race report sooner or later.
Then came back Sunday morning and got 1st in AG for the Sprint.
2018 White Lake Fall Half Iron Race Report.
Lets skip all the pre-race nonsense and get right to race day.
4 AM Wake up, breakfast, lay down and relax. My room is literally less than 50 yards from the swim start and no more than 200 yards from Transition. 6 AM I go and rack bike and lay my stuff out. Go back to room and relax. 6:40 I get in the water, swim for a minute or two and then just hang out. Climb the ladder out of the water and get in line for the time trial start. About 10th in line. It’s a jump start as the water is less than 3 feet deep, no diving.
The Swim: Water temp, 90 freaking degrees! Yes, you read that right. 90 degrees. Its gonna be a hot, slow swim. Any effort above easy will result in being cooked. So just smoothed it but could tell even at the relaxed pace I was feeling the effects of the hot water. Climb up the ladder to the dock and cross the timing mat, look at watch, 33:XX. Slooooow. But in reality, maybe a touch faster than I should have gone. I could tell on the 300 yard run to T1 my HR was up, and I was feeling it. Official swim time 33:27
T1: Bing bang boom, cap and googles down, glasses on, helmet on, wipe feet a little with towel as transition is grass and sand, shoes on, and off I go. 2:19. That’s fast for me.
The Bike: Goals/Targets. Break 2:30. 220ish watts. HR no higher than 135 avg.
I hit the mount like, get on, clip in, and off I go. PM turns on, connects, HR connects, all systems go. My HR is 149! Holy Shit! I’ve never seen it this high at the start of a bike. Alright, it will drop. It doesn’t. Slow down, slow down. It was over a mile before it dropped below 140, and it remained in the upper 130s until mile 10. I’m thinking this is not good. My HR is generally really low and below bike target when I get on the bike. Worst case, within a mile or two max its below and now I can work on raising it to target. Never have I had such a high HR and had to work on dropping it. Finally got below 135 after 10 miles. Avg watts is reading 215. And it stays at that number until mile 40+ It doesn’t budge. My NP is set to lap every 5. Goal is to keep NP in the low to mid 220s. Able to do it 5 mile lap after 5 mile lap. HR flat lining at 130 and stays there till mile 50. Bike is unexciting. Just hold my cadence at 90 in the gear giving me my target watts and keep on keeping on. Nothing fancy. I was 4th onto the bike initially. I got passed by 2 people total on the bike. But I repassed both of them and never saw them again. I never saw any other cyclist in front of me. I knew I wasn’t in the lead. But the 3 ahead of me were so much faster that I never caught site of them. They put up a 2:13, 2:15, and 2:16 bike split.
Bike remained uninteresting till mile 40. That’s when you take the final turn and it’s a straight 16 mile shot to the bike dismount. It’s a never ending false flat, and it’s a headwind. This is where things went a little south. My goal again was cadence of 90 and watts @220. Up until this point, my avg watts for the ride have not budged once from 215 and NP lap has remained perfect in the low 220s. That’s about to change. The combination of the false flat and headwind put me in a situation where I was between gears. The gear I can hold 90 puts my watts too low and to get the watts where I want them I have to spin too fast. The next cog down, my target watts put my cadence in the low 80s, and if I spin 90, I’m pushing 260+ watts! I can’t do that for 45 minutes and expect to have a shot at the run. So I go to the easier gear and basically flip flop back and forth between the two gears with like shot intervals at the higher power, put most of the time I’m in the easier gear despite it costing me great speed. Avg power as fallen to 213. But really, there was nothing I could do at this point. The grade/wind combo just put me into no mans land on the rear cogs.
Results: Avg Speed 23.2 MPH (was 23.4 through 40 miles till the issue above). Pwr 213. Cadence 90. Avg HR 133. Time… 2:24!!! (including a launched bottle that I turned around and picked up, easily costing me 1 minute.
T2: Dismount, go rack bike, helmet off, socks on, shoes on, go bag, and go. Time, 1:49. Fast for me again. Happy with the number.
The Run: Goal: Sub 1:45, that is the only goal.
F*ck this shit. Seriously, why do I do this? I need to find a winter sport. The temp is over 100. Its evil. There is no shade anywhere on the entire run. I’m 4th onto the run but know the other ones are way ahead of me. But maybe they got cooked and I can reel them in. Ha. That’s a joke. But you never know. Mile 1 – 3. My HR instantly shoots up when I start running. Into the 140s. Pace is 8:30 and falling. My watch often reads falsely high on the very start of the run then drops fast so I don’t worry. Keep watching it, it stays there. Pace still hovering around 8. HR still won’t budge from 140+. I decide that I’m just not going to let it climb. Avg 8:05 for first 3 miles. Mile 4 more of the same. Then the heat factor kicked in. 100+, no shade, and no amount of ice, race saver bags, ice water soaked towels, or pouring water on myself is cooling me off. I’m cooking out here. Was able to hold pace in mile 5 but the HR is climbing into mid 140s. The pace slows each mile 6, 7, and 8 as I combat heat and a climbing HR. The time at the aid stations increases trying to cool off. I’m trying to do math in my head to figure out just how slow I can run and still break 5. Math is hard. I’ve come up with a dozen answers and none of them are good. I tell myself, look jackass, you have 4 miles left, a legit shot at breaking 5 if your bad math is even close to accurate (or its so far gone that you can't run fast enough to break 5), get moving. I suck it up and mile 9 through finish line each mile was faster than the previous.
Run time: 1:52. Disappointing and a far cry from goal. I am highly disappointed.
BUT, final time 4:55:05!!! 1st in AG, 7th overall. Got passed by 3 people on the run and they were flying. There was no hanging with them.
Post race analysis and learning my slow run was actually pretty darn fast.
Overall stats.
Swim 6th fastest. Bike 6th fastest. Run 8th fastest!
Age Group stats.
Swim 1st by 2:24. Bike 2nd fastest, lost by 17 seconds, and the run… 1st by 10:18!!! This made me realize that while it was slow on the clock, stacked up against the rest of the field and against my age group, the time was actually pretty good for the days conditions.
Don’t think I would have approached anything different or executed different. Pretty much all went to plan other than the run in an oven. Could have maybe ran harder, but doing so may have caused a huge blow up in the last few miles instead of an accelerating pace.
Sub 5 goal was met. Winning AG was met. Oh, and won my AG by over 26 minutes. A successful day in every way. Other than that stupid run. One shouldn't run when its 100+ degrees out.
Next morning sprint race report.
Ha! Kidding. Got 1st in AG. End of report.
But looking at peoples numbers, it further shows that I am much better suited to long vs short and fast. The top 6 finishers all broke 19 for the 5K, including 2 sub 17 and a 15 year old kid who ripped off a 17 and change run. I can't compete against stuff like that.
Going forward. Taking this week easy. Will get in sessions starting tomorrow. Hurricane will determine if anything happens over the weekend and when I can start marathon training. But hopefully it turns into a nothing burger and I can start up next week training for Kiawah Island Marathon on Dec 8th. Now to pick a plan.
What say you and why?
Also, I see all these posts about 5K plans and new running plans and running this and running that. Do we not have access to those as I can't find them anywhere. Wondering if one of them may be better suited for my marathon than the standard ones in my menu.
I can’t tell what I’m more happy about, you’re a complete race performance or the fact that you saw you didn’t have to be world-class at each individual leg to be fast. Super pumped for you. 75 on the chorus on that day is legit. And you can’t argue with how smart you were to balance your effort against the conditions in the terrain. You may be strong but your mental acuity is the real secret weapon as far as I’m concerned.
Now is the time of year that we get more into the running, and I am a huge fan of the run durability program. No reason why we can’t target something for you like a half marathon or, if you are so inclined, something longer to keep you motivated. The key is I just don’t want to much intensity over distance for a little while. Can you do some research for me?
@Coach Patrick
I can do research as long as I have electricity!
And we are going long. Marathon Dec 8th. Need plan.
IM Maryland vs IM Florida next year.
MD will be opening shortly as the race is next weekend. Florida still a month and a half out. Looking to lock in which IM to do next year.
MD is closer and an easier drive, but Florida has that ocean swim that gives me a bit of an advantage over others. Though I won't get any actual ocean swimming in prior to the race. The bikes and runs, flat flat flat from what I see so there really isn't a difference there. But leaning toward MD.
Unless you have a suggestion that you think would suit me better and is within reasonable driving distance.
Also, how many weeks prior to a full would be the latest one should do a half? With Raleigh no longer existing, looking at options and want to schedule appropriately.
@Brian Terwilliger - i vote you load the regular marathon plan (not balanced) to end on your marathon. lemmeno when it’s up in Final Surge and i can edit.
Note: Remember to load the weeks properly so you don’t backfill your calendar, info on help site here: www.endurancenation.us/help
i personally like FL better, i think the weather is more consistent there but it is later. you will do well at both as MD has a current as well. i think the timing is more important of a consideration.
6 weeks out or more is best. we could do four, it just means shuffling things about...
Hmmmm, not balanced. But muh bike gains!
Unfortunately I don't use final surge. Maybe I should. May research. May not. I'm lazy.
Here is my plan. Run 7 days a week. Even if its just 2 miles at Z1 or slower on the "rest days". Then do the scheduled runs as best as possible. I'm still gonna Zwift. Even if its just 30 - 60 minutes twice a week Particularly on Sunday where there is just a 35' Z1 run on schedule. Knock out run, Zwift, then breakfast.
Both the balanced and 'un'balanced plan mesh up well with my schedule, so I'll give the un-balanced one a shot. I think 12 weeks is a bit on the short side to really attack a marathon, but the 70.3 training leading in should at least have me in a good spot. So I'm planning on using the training to really build a big running base and increase durability, while still shooting for a big PR on race day.
IMMD meshes up with my family life and schedule better than Fl. Plus then Florida can always be a revenge race if stuff goes wrong in MD. Or even better, Cancun for a revenge race.
So from today on out through early May here is my plan. Attack marathon training, race on Dec 8th. Take the rest of Dec to recover with continued running and add in more and more cycling. Continue this through January and start Out Season January 28th for a May 5th half marathon test race. Though "test" is being used lightly as it will likely be 90 with 100% humidity. Then we will figure out what to do between May 6th and official start of dedicated 12-16 weeks of IMMD training .
I really think a strong focus on the bike after the marathon and all the way through to IMMD is going to be my key to success. Hitting 2:24 for the bike at White Lake on what was honestly probably training at 80% of what was called for on plan was a pleasant surprise. I think with getting closer to 90% and a small bump in FTP with training to hold higher %s for long uninterrupted periods, pending the IMMD winds, going well under 5 hours could be a realistic goal and still leave me the ability to run a 3:30 to 3:45 marathon, or better with the right conditions and successful training season.
At the end of the day, IMMD is truly the singular and only focus from here on out. All things will lead to it. But a year out, even thinking like this is a bad idea, so a lot of fun stuff will be thrown in from here until July. Such as plenty of beer miles. I still say we need to have an EN Beer Mile Championship, much like the Ben & Jerrys challenge.
@Coach Patrick
I already regret signing up for this marathon and I'm only 6 days into training. Kidding. Sorta.
How big of a difference is there in reality between the beginner, intermediate, and advanced levels for the marathon (un-balanced) plan? The Saturday long run seems to be identical, the Sunday short run the same. Just seems to be Wed and Thursday that are really different. Is the beginner level enough volume and fast running to realistically run a marathon at Z2 or better?
The heat and humidity is still too high to run Z3 and Z4 for any period of time. Today was the 12 miler, 2 Z1, 6 Z2, 2 Z4, and 2 Z2. Was able to do a few at Z2, but quickly HR popped well into Z5 because of conditions. I suspect they will stick around for a while. So just held upper Z5 HR until mile 11, the dropped pace to TRP/Z1 for the last mile to bring HR down a little before finishing. Thinking maybe do beginner for a few weeks then move to advanced once temps drop and can hold faster paces longer at a lower HR. Or maybe just stick with beginner and lower goals from sub 3:05 to sub 3:10 and really use this more as a durability program to set the stage. But if I show up at a race, I really want to race. I don't run races for fun. I run races to do my best.
@Brian Terwilliger I like the singular focus on Maryland, as challenging as that could be. I think your thought process for how to improve works just fine especially with the seven days of running. Hopefully your white lake experience showed you that you don’t have to be perfect for awesome every day in order to be really good on race day.
As for the marathon, if you’re looking to run a personal best then the adVance plan is the way to go. Being successful at a marathon distance run it’s just a different kettle of fish. It’s not so much the plan as it is the 12 to 18 we could build up to it. Very hard to just pack a marathon and be awesome at it.
I I think the X factor for you is the Fitness that you bring to the table from your training already. Let’s see how some of the long runs go in terms of pacing before we pass judgment.
@Coach Patrick
Temps dropping a little, now only in the 80s in the evening when I run during the week. Humidity still oppressive. Especially when it rains before you run and the steam is coming off the black top. Horrible. But hit my numbers on the 2 x 1 mile and 2 by half mile repeats tonight. Saturdays long run, humidity cooperating hopefully will be a good test to see where I am at with 3 x 1.5 mile repeats at Z4 starting at mile 6. If humidity is way up, HR will be jacked and I'll just run at the highest HR I am comfortable maintaining. Hoping this heat/humidity punishment really pays off with a nice pop in pace and HR drop when the temps finally fall in a few weeks.
Questions. On the "off" days on the advanced marathon plan, how much running is too much and how fast is too fast? I've been running 2-4 and usually at Z1 or slightly slower.
Created a Final Surge account. How do I link EN to it or whatever it is we are supposed to do?
Broke down and ordered a Stryd. While I like numbers, looking at numbers, and knowing numbers, I am NOT in any way a data geek. Hell, I don't even know how to use Excel. So what and how is the best 'idiot proof' way to use this thing and derive maximum benefit? The concept and idea intrigues me. But I'm not sure that it will be exactly like a PM on the bike. Or will it? And I can tell you this. I won't be doing a 5K time trial anytime soon, if at all before the Dec 8th marathon. Realistically, to drop my zones I need to run about 30 or more seconds faster than my last test and I honestly don't know that I could ever do that. Maybe mid Nov if one is on plan, but until then, not happening. If I want to push faster paces on days I am feeling good I will do so. But an 18:40 5K to get any kind of drop in my pace zones is highly unlikely except on a day of absolute perfection. I don't need to do one to set power zones with Stryd do I?
Semi update. 14 straight days of running. 38 total miles last week. 47 this week. Now to drink beer and brew an IPA test batch. I'll have 6 kegs on tap and 4 other styles in bottles. Gotta stay hydrated!
Question: Wednesdays run (marathon , advanced) seems to be a 10 mile run, dropping to 8 until the end of the plan with a couple week exception following the next 5K test (that I won't be doing). Mostly a Z1 warming up, that varying lengths of Z4 intervals (1 and 2 miles usually).
Run club has a 2 mile loop on Wednesday nights. 1 mile down hill then 1 mile up hill. Would attacking the up and recovering on the down over and over be acceptable? While I am a total solo dog in tri training and really like being alone, when I'm knocking out 50 miles a week I like to include a few runs a week with the club to hang out and have fun afterward. And I don't get in enough hills. There is really no way to run this hill at Z4. TRP would be great.
Of course, once the Stryd comes and I figure out how to use it, I can push power on the hill. I just run on flat to small hills too much. Need to increase actual hill running. Think it will pay dividends on race day even though the race is pancake flat.
Yes I love that approach. Maybe gradually build the number of repeats as you go?
@Coach Patrick
Stryd. Still trying to figure it out. Not sure its for me. But hoping. Did the 3/9 test today at the same location I do my 5K tests so there wasn't any terrain differences messing with the results. The 3 minute test came in at 281 watts and the 9 minute test came in at 275 watts (and took a strava crown on the segment). That seems really too damn close to each other. Granted, I am not a sprinter, and I am mostly a 2 speed guy. Easy and hard. But when I take the average of the two, take 90% and plug it into EN Run Power zone calculator, the values I see, if I ran those, I firmly believe I will be way way slower than my pace zones. From the runs I've done, my Z2 MP pace zone of 213-220 watts would have me running slower than my Z1 run pace.
Am I doing something wrong? Do I need to change anything? Or is power just not made for how I run?
@Coach Patrick
I know you're in Kona and all. So not really expecting much unless you're using down time to reply to us peons. LOL.
Stryd has me more confused than ever. How big of a difference does the sneaker make? Not placement, cause thats the same. But the sneaker itself? Did the 3/9 test in my minimalist super fast 4 ounce track shoes (that I do run marathons in). As stated before, 3minutes came in at 281. 9 minute at 275.
Tonight, had 3 x (5' Z2 / 5' Z4 / 5' Z1) Was pushing 280 for Z2 (7:10) and over 300 for Z4 (6:44). Thats a minute SLOWER per mile pace than the 3 minute test, and 25+ watts MORE. Leads me to believe either the shoe is a huge factor as I ran in the much heavier and softer Reebok Float Ride tonight. The test was a totally screwed up by something, or the device is defective. I gonna redo the test in the same shoe I wore before. Have the beer mile championship Saturday night and am likely to party hard. So Sunday will be easy 3 or 4 miler just to log miles. Same Monday. Tuesday on plan has a 5K test. NOT doing it. Sorry. Will redo the 3/9 test to see what happens.
On the bright side, the three 5 minute segments at Z4, nailed em. My Z4 pace is 6:44. Avg. 6:43, 6:42, 6:41. Not bad. Could have ran harder, but stuck to pace and didn't push myself as I have long hill repeats tomorrow for 8 to 10 miles. Ugh.
@Brian Terwilliger - I did reply for a while until things got too overwhelming! Thanks for your patience. It is my understanding that the Stryd power meter is shoe dependent, but I’m surprised that the variances that high.
I will say that the numbers you report with your regular shoes are consistent with what I would expect for the speed and your size (you are similar to me).
I think it’s important to use the device for a couple of weeks and get a variety of data points before we go too crazy. I do recommend running in the same pair of shoes for a while and then we can see what things look like then when your test again in the future.
Also, remember that there might be other factors at play other than just power. For example, your power over three minutes maybe close to nine minutes but your cadence could be significantly higher. That’s one of the benefits of having the device is to be able to examine all the different data points not just the power to learn more about who you are as a runner.