I did @PaulCurtin crusher workout today instead of JOS VO2 wko. 8 x 1' at 1.5 IF. I think I will switch every other week between the crusher(with goal of getting those up to 1.7) and the regular VO2. The last few hurt. I will also be hurting tomorrow too.
I am going to tackle wk2 Thursday ride at home tonight.. QQ for those who use Zwift - to ERG mode or not on these? For 30 seconds... wouldn't it take the trainer longer than afew seconds to adjust for the increased effort? I apologize if this has been covered I am just getting into the nuts and bolts of working out in Zwift vs. just riding along. I am thinking of dropping out of ERG mode for the Thursday rides.
I disabled ERG mode on my ride last night and realized that I failed EVERY SINGLE BLOCK because I could not stay in the power range - typically overachieving. If I see that I am overachieving but giving an effort that I feel is appropriate - i.e. we are supposed to be working and my HR is too low at the given watts, so I increase my perceived effort - do I use the arrows to bump it up and down during the workout? I have never adjusted the targets "on the fly" before. @Jason Veith am I correct that this is how I adjust? Through the arrows in game?
I hit the Discomfort Zone on today's workout ... did 10 x 30" Crush with @matt limbert on Zwift. I would have stopped after 6 intervals so having a buddy to ride with really helped. Thanks Matt! https://www.strava.com/activities/1363254065
I used ERG mode this time (Week 1 I didn't). In ERG, it took my Kickr Snap about 3 seconds to get me to the right power. However, I seemed to either "Fail" or "OK" the bottom ends of the 30/30. I had to play with my cadence a bit when the resistance fell off, to get a "perfect" on them.
I think I'll be using ERG on them from now on. I found it easier than trying to shift gears every 30 seconds.
@Jenniferlyn Kryvicky -- ERG mode seems to be a personal preference. I find that the power I can push varies a lot based on fatigue and other factors. So I prefer normal ride mode and push as much as I can for that day. Also, the spin-up time to get to full power means the interval is really 35 seconds or so
To your question: the up/down arrows in the game are a great way to adjust the effort; it has to be in workout mode and makes a 5 or 10% adjustment with each click
@"Jenniferlyn Kryvicky" - Yes, it takes 2-4 seconds for turbo trainers to adjust wattage. Additionally, I just re-read DCRainmaker's review of my trainer and he noted that,
Zwift will set ERG mode, but it’s not as strict as TrainerRoad is on holding the wattage. So with Zwift, you end up wobbling a bit more at the target wattage than TrainerRoad. Their idea being that it teaches you to hold power more accurately out on the road.
Kind of a double whammy on short 30" intervals. I thought the issue was with my new trainer, but it's really Zwift. While I prefer the TR approach, I found I can work around Zwift by spiking my cadence/wattage at the start of the interval and then holding just above the targeted wattage.
Thank you all for the input on ERG mode. I wondered why I could flux so much on power compared to TR - now that makes more sense! Since I really did not notice a difference I will move back to ERG mode and see how it feels. I am amazed at how consistent I have been in this OS compared to years past. The gameification has had a big difference in training appeal in the winter!
@scott Renick Not sure if you are joking around but the new OS Level 2 protocol is for 30/20 just be glad you are not doing level 3 30/15's. For me I like the change as I find the 30"rest is too long for me and the HR does not get up high enough. That as the new sustainable effort max has me pushing beyond 1.2 as lest for week 1. I still have to get these in the books later tonight.
One thing I forgot about ERG is when you take a micro break and the flywheel stops on the Kickr.....starting back up is hard! Note to self: Easy spin is better.
Since we judge our progress based on numbers(Watts), we tend to focus a lot on them even during a workout. When you are riding these very short intervals, your PLE will tell you if your are putting out the same effort even if the computer has fallen behind. If the computer loses connection for only a few seconds in a 30 second interval the average for the interval is shot. Today, one interval was 50 watts lower than the average of all the rest, but my HR was still right with all the others. When you reach the end of an interval set, if you are close to losing your previous meal then you have ridden correctly.
Moved my Thurs 30/20s to Fri this week due to work today. Did an extra race in Zwift last night for fun. ATV was screwy again...I was the only avatar on the island in my Watopia. Raced anyway as a "ghost." Had no idea how I was doing until race was over...finished pretty well.
Intervals in the books using erg mode. First time doing them like that. There is no mercy at all... you have two options: do them or please dismount your bike. That said I really loved it.
Disappointed with today's Zwift results. 2x 12 (30/30) @ 1.16 & 1.15 Average. Wattage was 10 and 13 watts below target on the two interval sets. The ramp up cost me about 90" or three intervals of VO2 work.
I tried ramping my cadence up on the first set and then holding my cadence steady on the second. I'll need to find a different solution for next week's VO2 wko.
Good to see everyone crushing it! I am, however, being crushed by my cold. Took yesterday and today off. Did some core work yesterday along with my hip myrtles. Just stretching today. Fingers crossed I feel better tomorrow and have enough energy to attempt a workout!!!
On Wk2 with the 30/30's. Still trying to figure out Zwift. Kept losing wifi so I switched to my mobile hot spot. I need to purchase a long cable for internet. My cable box is on the first floor and the trainer is in the basement. Can anyone help with what cable to run from one floor to next?
Ok need some help. I failed my 30/30’s on zwift because my watts on the down time would not drop low enough. So I’m thinking the fix is using my bikes power meter instead of the wahoo. It this right? But how would ego work then? Would it?
Another issue, the workout was not that hard. Not saying my bike was not dripping sweat, but I could have left more on the field. Thoughts?
@Jonathan Brown, I ride my workout on Zwift but I only use the data from my power meter. Your trainer/Zwift are not as accurate as your power meter. My power on Zwift is usually pretty close to my power meter. Today, Zwift recorded my weighted average power for the entire workout at 239W. My garmin recorded my Normailzed power at 232W. I think its great posting on Strava but I really only care about what my workout looks like in Training Peaks on my WKO4. https://www.strava.com/activities/1363150856 https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/2442388527
As far as leaving some on the field, move up to the next level for the VO2 workouts. Taking 15" out of your rest is huge.I do the 30"/15" and had to modify my sets from 2 X 16 to 4 X 8.
I did @PaulCurtin crusher workout today instead of JOS VO2 wko. 8 x 1' at 1.5 IF. I think I will switch every other week between the crusher(with goal of getting those up to 1.7) and the regular VO2. The last few hurt. I will also be hurting tomorrow too.
in the words of coach R (can't believe I am quoting HIM) that's Fookin Strong!! totally legit wko!!! i am at it tomorrow and the bar has been set! (mean time I did get a 2nd day in a row of a short run in #recovering)
@Derrek Sanks - might want to repost the link on the dashboard or use google link shortener, it got truncated there. wireline is the best! but my laptop has no cat 5 connection!
first one is "easy" but the real work happens in the 2nd set. I ordered a new HRM, unfortunately no HR data to see if the I got a good HR graph.. but I know I really work harder on the 2nd set.
next week I will replace the vo2 and try the crush one and alternate
I just completed the Thursday workout, 2 times 14x30/15 and it kick my butt! Definitely in the discomfort zone. I had to take a 2-3 min break mid way through each set to let my HR recover. These are much different than the 30" @Paul Curtin crush intervals and seem to be training a different "system" with a different training goal. I found the 28x30/15 to be just as hard as 10x30"@max effort (2x FTP) with 2' recoveries. Does anyone know the different between doing 30"@1.5x FTP with 15" recovery and 30"@2x FTP with 2-3' recovery? What's the training effect of each?
Thursday 30/15's done. Tried it on Zwift this time & seem to like it better then Trainer Road. Something about seeing that finish line arch at the end of the interval makes the time go faster. I need to try this Paul Curtin crusher workout, sounds like "fun".
Checking later in the week than i should, but hey...I'm here. :-)
The 2 x 12 on Tuesday were what they are supposed to be: challenging but doable right at FTP (215 W). Unfortunately, that tells me that the relatively low FTP test I did was pretty spot on. But that's why we're here...to get better, right?
Thursday's 2 x (12 x 30/30) were all done in the range of 303-325 W with no particular pattern. The last handful were pretty challenging, but again, that seems healthy.
I've been at this game long enough to know that you only get a few truly death-defying workouts, and if you're doing them now, it doesn't bode well for the future. Coach Rich used to say something to the effect of "Think about what today's workout is doing as far as being able to do tomorrow's workout." I think that's particularly good advice in the OS.
I ride a Cycleops Phantom 5, so I have to use Rouvy. I set up the wko with a predicted TSS of 74 and 0.86 IF. Actual 88.6 TSS and 0.94 IF. Rouvy is just OK. I did not make the wko public, but I can if anyone needs it. So much easier than manual 30/15's.
got the VO2 done as Crush intervals... all intervals attempted to hold 405-415ish watts which is 1.65-1.7xFTP first 6 intervals were 50" and the last two at 30+" HR dropped to mid 120s between intervals 6' @ 75% to finish it up. there was a 10' warmup executed prior to this displayed set as well
Easing into VO2 for the season with 2 times thru (10 x 30:20), but pushed the power aiming for just under 1.5x FTP for a crusher-hybrid workout. For this early in the season and being my first VO2 wko, I'll take it. Was only moderately vomity at the end.
I couldn’t sustain the 1.5 x FTP as it made my max as 256W for the intervals.....I have never ridden that ever....the 2nd set was awful....just no time to recover trying pushing that many Watts for 30 sec intervals. I was on TR....
@Cheryl Turpin - for these VO2 workouts, you'll have to figure out your max effort that you can sustain through both sets. There is no prescribed watts. Now that you now 1.5xFTP is too high, adjust to 1.3 or 1.2xFTP. In TR you can adjust the intensity from 100% until you're at your target watts. By my calculations if you want your intervals at 1.2xFTP(205), dial the intensity down to 80%. The math: 80% of 171 is 137. 137x1.5 is 205.
Comments
I am going to tackle wk2 Thursday ride at home tonight.. QQ for those who use Zwift - to ERG mode or not on these? For 30 seconds... wouldn't it take the trainer longer than afew seconds to adjust for the increased effort? I apologize if this has been covered I am just getting into the nuts and bolts of working out in Zwift vs. just riding along. I am thinking of dropping out of ERG mode for the Thursday rides.
I disabled ERG mode on my ride last night and realized that I failed EVERY SINGLE BLOCK because I could not stay in the power range - typically overachieving. If I see that I am overachieving but giving an effort that I feel is appropriate - i.e. we are supposed to be working and my HR is too low at the given watts, so I increase my perceived effort - do I use the arrows to bump it up and down during the workout? I have never adjusted the targets "on the fly" before. @Jason Veith am I correct that this is how I adjust? Through the arrows in game?
https://www.strava.com/activities/1363254065
Here's a write-up on the Crush workout
https://endurancenation.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/24420/the-crush-workout-a-q-a-overview#latest
I think I'll be using ERG on them from now on. I found it easier than trying to shift gears every 30 seconds.
YMMV
A little stout given my shiny new FTP number. I held the 20 sec rest period to 175 watts. Was a 3X(8X40/20)
7.4 mile TM run followed.....not fun but effective.
Keep leading all!
SS
To your question: the up/down arrows in the game are a great way to adjust the effort; it has to be in workout mode and makes a 5 or 10% adjustment with each click
Zwift will set ERG mode, but it’s not as strict as TrainerRoad is on holding the wattage. So with Zwift, you end up wobbling a bit more at the target wattage than TrainerRoad. Their idea being that it teaches you to hold power more accurately out on the road.
Kind of a double whammy on short 30" intervals. I thought the issue was with my new trainer, but it's really Zwift. While I prefer the TR approach, I found I can work around Zwift by spiking my cadence/wattage at the start of the interval and then holding just above the targeted wattage.
Here is the Strava file from Tuesdays workout (which I did last night).
https://www.strava.com/activities/1362419034
Thank you all for the input on ERG mode. I wondered why I could flux so much on power compared to TR - now that makes more sense! Since I really did not notice a difference I will move back to ERG mode and see how it feels. I am amazed at how consistent I have been in this OS compared to years past. The gameification has had a big difference in training appeal in the winter!
One thing I forgot about ERG is when you take a micro break and the flywheel stops on the Kickr.....starting back up is hard! Note to self: Easy spin is better.
Ride on!
https://www.strava.com/athletes/23094352
I tried ramping my cadence up on the first set and then holding my cadence steady on the second. I'll need to find a different solution for next week's VO2 wko.
Another issue, the workout was not that hard. Not saying my bike was not dripping sweat, but I could have left more on the field. Thoughts?
https://www.strava.com/activities/1363150856
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/2442388527
As far as leaving some on the field, move up to the next level for the VO2 workouts. Taking 15" out of your rest is huge.I do the 30"/15" and had to modify my sets from 2 X 16 to 4 X 8.
@Derrek Sanks - might want to repost the link on the dashboard or use google link shortener, it got truncated there. wireline is the best! but my laptop has no cat 5 connection!
@paul curtin and @matt limbert - seeing a cute relationship blossom here #greenwithenvy
@Jonathan Brown - Totally agree with @Edwin Croucher - power source is PM, not the trainer!
first one is "easy" but the real work happens in the 2nd set. I ordered a new HRM, unfortunately no HR data to see if the I got a good HR graph.. but I know I really work harder on the 2nd set.
next week I will replace the vo2 and try the crush one and alternate
@Jonathan Brown - What @Edwin Croucher said or increase your power to make it more challenging.
I just completed the Thursday workout, 2 times 14x30/15 and it kick my butt! Definitely in the discomfort zone. I had to take a 2-3 min break mid way through each set to let my HR recover. These are much different than the 30" @Paul Curtin crush intervals and seem to be training a different "system" with a different training goal. I found the 28x30/15 to be just as hard as 10x30"@max effort (2x FTP) with 2' recoveries. Does anyone know the different between doing 30"@1.5x FTP with 15" recovery and 30"@2x FTP with 2-3' recovery? What's the training effect of each?
I need to try this Paul Curtin crusher workout, sounds like "fun".
The 2 x 12 on Tuesday were what they are supposed to be: challenging but doable right at FTP (215 W). Unfortunately, that tells me that the relatively low FTP test I did was pretty spot on. But that's why we're here...to get better, right?
Thursday's 2 x (12 x 30/30) were all done in the range of 303-325 W with no particular pattern. The last handful were pretty challenging, but again, that seems healthy.
I've been at this game long enough to know that you only get a few truly death-defying workouts, and if you're doing them now, it doesn't bode well for the future. Coach Rich used to say something to the effect of "Think about what today's workout is doing as far as being able to do tomorrow's workout." I think that's particularly good advice in the OS.
all intervals attempted to hold 405-415ish watts which is 1.65-1.7xFTP
first 6 intervals were 50" and the last two at 30+"
HR dropped to mid 120s between intervals
6' @ 75% to finish it up.
there was a 10' warmup executed prior to this displayed set as well
The math: 80% of 171 is 137. 137x1.5 is 205.