Saturday morning bike done and dusted. 2x8 (0.98 & 0.97) and 2x15 (both 0.82). Workout felt pretty good but the computer battery died halfway through the last interval. Will have to start taking the power cord with me. Felt pretty good, but not looking forward to those FTP intervals getting longer in the future. Next up for me, creative dance class with my 4 year old daughter!
Got my run and bike in first thing this morning (run first). Run was tough and I couldn't hold my paces (see NovOS run thread for details), but the bike felt great but legs are heavy!: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/239667646
Got in both the bike first and then the run. In both cases trying to stay in the heart rate band was a bit difficult. The bike lag going up and down hills in particular was really a challenge. I see the benefits to power, but finding the dollars is the hard part.
I know there are a lot of HR folks out there, any advice for this noob would be very welcome. I know I will likely start to get used to this with more practice, but again, help is welcome.
I'm a HR peep too, and earlier this week when people were posting and analyzing their numbers I spent a decent amount of energy fretting over the HR lack of precision and lagging data vs the power peeps. I've decided that I just have to recognize HR numbers for what they are and accept their lack of precision. I'm still working hard, but if my averages are off a bit b/c of the 30-60 sec lag while I'm ramping up/down for an interval, I'm just not going to stress out over it. I can't change it anyway, but I know that I'm still getting a good workout in and getting stronger in the process. Probably not the answer you're looking for, but maybe it helps!
OK, week 1 on the bike in the books. Today's numbers - FTP intervals @ 1.0 & 1.05 (I forgot to reduce my FTP # in my Joule, and as I was following my IF on that, I was going to hard!); 15' intervals @ 0.825 ( I fixed the FTP during the rest interval)
Last year, I watched Season 1 of "24" during bike workouts on the trainer. This year, I'm doing Torchwood Season 2. These shows ar perfect for the trainer, as they require no attention to plot or anything, and occasionally have enough action to perk me up when needed. Amazon Prime/Roku is the source.
@scott, kate - I'm power now but trained for a few years on HR and PE before I spent $1k on powertap wheel plus garmin 310xt (my kids bought me the bike mount :-) ) ... and my advice is to combine HR and PE in this way.
PE - perceived exertion - is built-in, immediate, NEVER runs out of batteries, and doesn't require that you take your eyes off the road. Even WITH power, when I'm on the road I use the power as a gauge on my RPE (e.g. this is what 200 watts feels like right now) and then I can hold 200 watts based on what it feels like. PE with HR is way more powerful as a feedback mechanism than either on it own. The key is to formalize your use of PE. For example, divide PE into six levels, where 1 is total recovery, 6 is all-out-hardest-you-can-do, 5 is VO2m, 4 is max-sustainable for an hour (eg FTP/CP-1hr), 3 is 90% of sustainable (eg moderate effort), 2 is aerobic threshold (eg light effort). You can then "calibrate" your understanding of your own PE using your HR - e.g. do a 20m test trying for max sustainable and you end up knowning your CP and having a better sense of how to interpret those PE "readings" (e.g. "so this is what FTP feels like, so this is what 90% feels like).
There are a few shortcomings to perceived exertion: (1) you need to really train yourself to pay attention to it and to know how to interpret it, and (2) it's variable depending on how tired you are from prior workouts or a bad sleep or too few carbs... (3) most people don't know how to do a 90% PE; PE makes it too easy to train too hard, and that's the mistake most people make with PE (4) as you get toward the end of an interval, PE goes up at the same level of power due to fatigue (of course, so does HR).
That said, if I ever lost signal on my PowerTap during a race, I'd be left with PE, so I pay attention to it, both as a gauge of my fatigue and because the signal is so reliable.
Bottom line: use PE to know that you're training at the right intensity because it's immediate, and use HR as a gauge on your PE so that you know if you're in-range, under-range, or over-range - mostly to know that you're not over-doing the intensity.
Ok - now the details on my ride today:
Rode outside even though my intensity metrics are all on the trainer, so if I add 10 watts as an adjustment, I'm still training too hard. These are my work intervals:
Split
Time
Avg HR
Avg Power
Max Power
2
01:05.0
200
260
340
4
01:07.1
149
263
326
6
08:36.5
152
257
361
8
08:02.8
153
255
398
10
09:33.0
145
208
296
12
07:02.7
145
220
446
14
09:25.2
137
210
356
16
09:16.0
136
212
309
(it's hard to find 15m without hitting a traffic light or stop sign around here, but the pauses are typically a minute or two at most)
My FTP on the trainer is 227 - call it 230, which would have my road FTP around 240, so my 8m intervals are high - 108%ish - and my zone-3 intervals aren't too far off - probably should all be around 210. Also, my max power numbers show that I'm a bit variable.
Thanks Russell. That's some really good insight. I'm fairly confident that my PE matches reality on the bike, but on the run it's a total crapshot. Definitely need to do some work there...
Btw, I don't know if I'm more impressed with your response or your swim-bike-run stickman signature line. Nice!!
The only place I'm really successful managing running pace is the track (which I take over treadmill unless I can't find the track under the snow). There just too many variables on the road/sidewalk/trail around here, so I do my real pace training at the track.
Re: stick figures - during the week I spend a lot of time in meetings
Got the bike done this morning on the trainer - but am seriously frustrated by my heart rate monitor - Not sure what's wrong with it but it was giving me silly reading like 99 - 103 while I was biking. Then would suddenly jump to (what was probably right) 150. I had to just ignore it and just go by perceived exertion. But it was hard to stay focused while my watch is yelling at me my heart rate is "TOO LOW" bah!
Shawn - maybe it's time to replace your battery? My HR gets a little jumpy when the battery's about to die. Alternatively, is your strap in the right loccation on your chesy? I've noticed that if it's off by even just a bit, my HR readings are jumpy. Maybe that'll help.
Got the bike workout done (after I changed the battery on my powerap). Does anyone know if the battery life indicator on trainerroad is accurate?
I have realized that what I thought was hard before, wasn't! its gonna be a challenging 14 weeks, in a good way!.
Is there any harm in doing the quality run workout on Saturdays and the bike and run on Sunday? It looks like saturdays are going to be relatively busy in my household until hockey and basketball are done.
Did the bike after the run today - first time in that order, and it certainly makes a difference in ease of hitting/maintaining FTP! 2x8' @ FTP (2' rest in between) followed by 2x15' @ 80%. Chugged 24oz of gatorade after the run and to replenish fluids, as it was about 20-25 minutes between sessions. Also had 24oz bottle of accelerade for the bike, cuz I figure I mine as well use that crap up. The FTP sessions were mentally tough, but doable. Odd thing happened after them, during the 2' rest - right calf started getting real tight, almost cramping up. Never had that happen before, so I took 20-30 seconds to stretch it out and once again in between the 15' sections. Not sure whether it was exertion from the run, electrolytes not having gotten through the body yet at that point, or what.
@Shawn - I've had issues with my HR monitor as well (Garmin 305). For the first year I owned it, no problem, but then it started getting quirky during the first 10-15 minutes of a run. Only on a run, though.
It's jump around and hit like 180 during a warm up, when it should be reading 130-140. I've tried a bunch of things but still can't quite get rid of it every time. Currently I have the most success with wetting the contacts and then sprinkling a few grains of salt on them just prior to putting it on. I used to just wet them under the faucet, but having some electrical conduction seems to help. Tried replacing batteries, that didn't seem to help. Static guard sometimes helps as well. Also tried various shirts - some work better than others - but they all generate static electricity, which is what is causing the jumpiness. Haven't tried cotton, though - but now maybe with the weather being cooler, I will.
Whats odd is that the first year of ownership the thing was rock solid. I"m kinda wondering whether the conductive material applied to the strap contact points wears off (thus the sprinkling of salt)
Had a good trainer session this afternoon with a 10'wu, 2x8' @ FTP, 2' easy, 15' @ 80-85%, 2' easy, then the second 15' @ 80-85%. Followed up with 20' run on the tm. Popped James Bond Quantum of Solace into the DVD player and the time moved along pretty well. Legs are comfortably tired but not completely wrecked. It will be interesting to see how this all unfolds over the next few weeks.
Re: HR reading problems ... Electrical wires can cause interference at times, causing reading to be, say, 2/3 or 1 1/3 rd of actual HR, 50% or 150%, etc. Also, saliva already has salt in it! If my strap is not reading right @ the start of a session, I just get my finger wet, and rub it on the strap ... Works every time.
72 min on the drainer. 2x8' @ (.992) (.979) 2x15' @ (.844) (.833)
30 min on the deadmill as a brick. WU 3' 12:30 @ MP (8:06) 12:10 @ HMP (7:34)
No issues other than wanting to run more but @ nearly 10PM and no diner yet - I was starving! [grilled Cod over a big plate of stir fry, topped with cheddar]
Well the new AG group hit me at 64 when jan rolls around. Finished BIKE re-test (after replacing the PT hub batteries on 1st test-failure) results: 5 min =239 avg watt; avg rpm=96 (love to get that higher cadence going) 20 min=203 avg watt; avg rpm=91 resulting in 192 FTP. HR strap has fault and to be replaced asap.So went to PE for HR and did not appear to be any higher than previous intensity workouts..
For all the HR Peeps out there - a WSM might have a better way, but this is what I do to compensate for the HR lag.
My LTHR on the bike is now 162 and the speed I got on my trainer was 19.8mph for the test. So, with my current zones, Z5 is greater than 162 and 20mph. My Z4 is calculated by my Data tool as 156-161 and I picked a speed of 19-20mph. For Z3, less than 19mph.
This way, when HR lags, I have something I can use that is tied to my zones. So, you need to make sure your computer has a back wheel magnet set-up to get the speeds. If not, all you've got is perceived effort , which for me is all over the chart.
Hope this helps - although Power is still better, this helps you with a metric independant of the HR that is dependant on the power you generate.
Did the Saturday run before the bike this past weekend. It was a pretty morning, so I ran 40' and a little too hot per the paces, but the weather was crisp,cool, bright. Great running weather. Then I jumped on the bike for the 2x8'@FTP, followed by 2x15'@85%. During the first 8@FTP, I had my right calf start to cramp. Would just catch every minute or so, but I pushed through it. This kept up through all the intervals, and then the left calf decided to join the party. Was glad the intervals were over and just easy spinning back to the car. First time I've ever had calf cramps when riding the bike. Also first time I've ran hard first. So, was not dehydrated, was not electrolyte imbalanced, etc. What I was doing was using muscles differently than they had been trained for years.
So, my takeaway is next time I get cramps, I'm going to be asking what am I doing differently, not head straight to the dehydrated/electrolye reasoning.
New, as in today, to testing/training with power so still learning what all the data means. My question is does the PM give an accurate speed when indoors on a trainer? Did my bike test this morning and the speeds for my 5' and 20' tests were well below what I ride at those efforts.
Steve, it all depends on how much resistance you have set on the trainer. 200 watts at high resistance will give a slower speed than 200 watts at very light resistance. Just like riding into a headwind at 200 watts will yield slower speed than 200 watts into a tailwind. PM should give accurate speed whether indoors on the trainer or outside on the road as long as your wheel circumference setting is correct.
@Steve - Don't worry about speed on a trainer. If your test go up 10% over the 14 weeks you will be faster outside, even better if the wind is at your back.
I got my bike in this morning. The 30/30's were much rougher this week than last. I can feel a bit of the fatigue build up intended over these three days. All in all, it was rough, but it's done. Looking forward to a bit of rest!
Comments
Get after it and good luck everyone!
Got my run and bike in first thing this morning (run first). Run was tough and I couldn't hold my paces (see NovOS run thread for details), but the bike felt great but legs are heavy!: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/239667646
1st: 0.96 IF
2nd: 0.97 IF
3rd: 0.82 IF
4th: 0.83 IF
I know there are a lot of HR folks out there, any advice for this noob would be very welcome. I know I will likely start to get used to this with more practice, but again, help is welcome.
Hi Scott - that's one seriously sticky mouse
.
I'm a HR peep too, and earlier this week when people were posting and analyzing their numbers I spent a decent amount of energy fretting over the HR lack of precision and lagging data vs the power peeps. I've decided that I just have to recognize HR numbers for what they are and accept their lack of precision. I'm still working hard, but if my averages are off a bit b/c of the 30-60 sec lag while I'm ramping up/down for an interval, I'm just not going to stress out over it. I can't change it anyway, but I know that I'm still getting a good workout in and getting stronger in the process. Probably not the answer you're looking for, but maybe it helps!
OK, week 1 on the bike in the books. Today's numbers - FTP intervals @ 1.0 & 1.05 (I forgot to reduce my FTP # in my Joule, and as I was following my IF on that, I was going to hard!); 15' intervals @ 0.825 ( I fixed the FTP during the rest interval)
Last year, I watched Season 1 of "24" during bike workouts on the trainer. This year, I'm doing Torchwood Season 2. These shows ar perfect for the trainer, as they require no attention to plot or anything, and occasionally have enough action to perk me up when needed. Amazon Prime/Roku is the source.
@scott, kate - I'm power now but trained for a few years on HR and PE before I spent $1k on powertap wheel plus garmin 310xt (my kids bought me the bike mount :-) ) ... and my advice is to combine HR and PE in this way.
PE - perceived exertion - is built-in, immediate, NEVER runs out of batteries, and doesn't require that you take your eyes off the road. Even WITH power, when I'm on the road I use the power as a gauge on my RPE (e.g. this is what 200 watts feels like right now) and then I can hold 200 watts based on what it feels like. PE with HR is way more powerful as a feedback mechanism than either on it own. The key is to formalize your use of PE. For example, divide PE into six levels, where 1 is total recovery, 6 is all-out-hardest-you-can-do, 5 is VO2m, 4 is max-sustainable for an hour (eg FTP/CP-1hr), 3 is 90% of sustainable (eg moderate effort), 2 is aerobic threshold (eg light effort). You can then "calibrate" your understanding of your own PE using your HR - e.g. do a 20m test trying for max sustainable and you end up knowning your CP and having a better sense of how to interpret those PE "readings" (e.g. "so this is what FTP feels like, so this is what 90% feels like).
There are a few shortcomings to perceived exertion: (1) you need to really train yourself to pay attention to it and to know how to interpret it, and (2) it's variable depending on how tired you are from prior workouts or a bad sleep or too few carbs... (3) most people don't know how to do a 90% PE; PE makes it too easy to train too hard, and that's the mistake most people make with PE (4) as you get toward the end of an interval, PE goes up at the same level of power due to fatigue (of course, so does HR).
That said, if I ever lost signal on my PowerTap during a race, I'd be left with PE, so I pay attention to it, both as a gauge of my fatigue and because the signal is so reliable.
Bottom line: use PE to know that you're training at the right intensity because it's immediate, and use HR as a gauge on your PE so that you know if you're in-range, under-range, or over-range - mostly to know that you're not over-doing the intensity.
Ok - now the details on my ride today:
Rode outside even though my intensity metrics are all on the trainer, so if I add 10 watts as an adjustment, I'm still training too hard. These are my work intervals:
(it's hard to find 15m without hitting a traffic light or stop sign around here, but the pauses are typically a minute or two at most)
My FTP on the trainer is 227 - call it 230, which would have my road FTP around 240, so my 8m intervals are high - 108%ish - and my zone-3 intervals aren't too far off - probably should all be around 210. Also, my max power numbers show that I'm a bit variable.
Off to do a short run - with The Boy!
Thanks Russell. That's some really good insight. I'm fairly confident that my PE matches reality on the bike, but on the run it's a total crapshot. Definitely need to do some work there...
Btw, I don't know if I'm more impressed with your response or your swim-bike-run stickman signature line. Nice!!
Glad if it's helpful to you, Kate.
The only place I'm really successful managing running pace is the track (which I take over treadmill unless I can't find the track under the snow). There just too many variables on the road/sidewalk/trail around here, so I do my real pace training at the track.
Re: stick figures - during the week I spend a lot of time in meetings
Loving the dull, pleasant fatigue in my legs after a solid ride.
But long ride today with 2 x 8' both at 176W... so go figure.
Shawn - maybe it's time to replace your battery? My HR gets a little jumpy when the battery's about to die. Alternatively, is your strap in the right loccation on your chesy? I've noticed that if it's off by even just a bit, my HR readings are jumpy. Maybe that'll help.
I have realized that what I thought was hard before, wasn't! its gonna be a challenging 14 weeks, in a good way!.
Is there any harm in doing the quality run workout on Saturdays and the bike and run on Sunday? It looks like saturdays are going to be relatively busy in my household until hockey and basketball are done.
2x8' @ FTP (2' rest in between) followed by 2x15' @ 80%. Chugged 24oz of gatorade after the run and to replenish fluids, as it was about 20-25 minutes between sessions. Also had 24oz bottle of
accelerade for the bike, cuz I figure I mine as well use that crap up.
The FTP sessions were mentally tough, but doable. Odd thing happened after them, during the 2' rest - right calf started getting real tight, almost cramping up. Never had that happen before, so I took 20-30
seconds to stretch it out and once again in between the 15' sections. Not sure whether it was exertion from the run, electrolytes not having gotten through the body yet at that point, or what.
It's jump around and hit like 180 during a warm up, when it should be reading 130-140. I've tried a bunch of things but still can't quite get rid of it every time. Currently I have the most success with
wetting the contacts and then sprinkling a few grains of salt on them just prior to putting it on. I used to just wet them under the faucet, but having some electrical conduction seems to help. Tried replacing
batteries, that didn't seem to help. Static guard sometimes helps as well. Also tried various shirts - some work better than others - but they all generate static electricity, which is what is causing the jumpiness.
Haven't tried cotton, though - but now maybe with the weather being cooler, I will.
Whats odd is that the first year of ownership the thing was rock solid. I"m kinda wondering whether the conductive material applied to the strap contact points wears off (thus the sprinkling of salt)
Popped James Bond Quantum of Solace into the DVD player and the time moved along pretty well. Legs are comfortably tired but not completely wrecked. It will be interesting to see how this all unfolds over the next few
weeks.
Got the final bike workout of the week in around 2pm.
2X8' both @,99
2X15 @ .84 &.83
It felt better than I thought it was going to check out the other thread for my brick run as I was pushed for time today.
Gordon
@ Satish...Ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Just be sure and take Monday for rest.
Re: HR reading problems ... Electrical wires can cause interference at times, causing reading to be, say, 2/3 or 1 1/3 rd of actual HR, 50% or 150%, etc. Also, saliva already has salt in it! If my strap is not reading right @ the start of a session, I just get my finger wet, and rub it on the strap ... Works every time.
25 min run treadmill 2% incline: 5 min. WU, 10 min @ 7:40 MP, 10 min @ 7:20 HMP
75 min computrainer: 10 min WU, 2X8', both @ 1.0 IF; 2x15 @ .86 & . 84. 10 min CD
72 min on the drainer.
2x8' @ (.992) (.979)
2x15' @ (.844) (.833)
30 min on the deadmill as a brick. WU 3'
12:30 @ MP (8:06)
12:10 @ HMP (7:34)
No issues other than wanting to run more but @ nearly 10PM and no diner yet - I was starving! [grilled Cod over a big plate of stir fry, topped with cheddar]
I was just looking for all this information you posted. I did my bike testing and wasn't sure what to do with the numbers - thanks!
5 min =239 avg watt; avg rpm=96 (love to get that higher cadence going)
20 min=203 avg watt; avg rpm=91 resulting in 192 FTP.
HR strap has fault and to be replaced asap.So went to PE for HR and did not appear to be any higher than previous intensity workouts..
Hope this helps - although Power is still better, this helps you with a metric independant of the HR that is dependant on the power you generate.
So, my takeaway is next time I get cramps, I'm going to be asking what am I doing differently, not head straight to the dehydrated/electrolye reasoning.
New, as in today, to testing/training with power so still learning what all the data means. My question is does the PM give an accurate speed when indoors on a trainer? Did my bike test this morning and the speeds for my 5' and 20' tests were well below what I ride at those efforts.
@Steve - Don't worry about speed on a trainer. If your test go up 10% over the 14 weeks you will be faster outside, even better if the wind is at your back.
Gordon
Vo2 Max test: 279 Watts/HR 152/82 RPM
FTP test: 237 Watts/HR 152/89 RPM so FTP of 225 Watts