That’s about as good as we can hope for! I’m pleased with the total amount of work you were able to do, especially coming off of your big week on the bike last week, and all that travel and sitting time. You really have to be careful about that hamstring today, remember to stay loose and move about.
I will put your intervals into Final Surge later today. I agree with your assessment of the patriots, there is precious little to be gained from you racing this weekend and all of the travel and taper time or just have us miss out on a good consistent week both in terms of exercise but also work. And the keys this week are running consistency and getting those swims in!
did a 11 mile run weds am.. http://tpks.ws/EOBLGSEWFWSW7GXTIX2BA2VRQQ wanteed to get 4.5 weds night, kids actually wanted to talk to me. goal is to extend AM weekly split run by 1 mile in AM and 1/2 mile in PM. Dr Stu who is a big runner and 1x IM, thinks I need to just go Long Slow Miles on the pace, if it hurts, slow down.. Feels power and fitness will xover from strong focus on bike.
weird thing was that while running I noticed HR was in 180s which would be max heart rate for me. In the 5x1s, i only get to mid to high 160s. it didn't "feel" like 183 which was my peak 1 min HR according to TP. but the watch was saying it, i walked it down, played with chest strap, seemed fine after.. Only possibility was not being hydrated enough.
did Vasa weds night, got in a few door 3 50s, and a bunch of door 2 100s & 50s
swimming in pool Friday/ Sunday. gotta focus on that!
Note, will post plan for camp week on sunday night or Monday and we can fine tune it based on your input.
I assume you are reading my posts... if you aren't commenting, can you please give me an agree or like so I know you've been here!
didn't get 2nd run on Weds, kids actually wanted to speak to me and yesterday I finally got the FTP sets in last night. http://tpks.ws/BVXDUVYA5VLUFRMXBP6JBHWRHM 10'@276 & 10'@257
didn't run yesterday, got 5.5 Friday & planning 4-5 SAT, 5+ hr ride planned with my buddy james on tri bikes. Swam 3300 Fri in pool. Sunday big day - early AM swim in Pool, 1-1.5 hr bike. 9ish mile run. all by 12 noon! have twins Graduation lunch, ceremony, etc.. hopefully hitting 1000 TSS for the week
Goal is to end week with 32-35 miles running and creep this up between now and taper week (5 weeks away) at 38MPW which will mean getting some 2 mile runs in on the days I have been off.
NEXT WEEK - Camp Hoff here is my plan
Monday – Run 3 / swim 3500, 45 mins core/ weights, hip work
Tuesday – Long run day, 12 miles in AM, 5 miles in eve in VT
Wednesday – 3-4 mile run, then bike 60 with two climbs, swim after bike? -Ascutney and Okemo mountain climbs; 61 miles & 7300’ of climbing. https://ridewithgps.com/routes/28280337 -This ride is a 60 mile loop that includes the option to climb two mountains via out and back roads to the top, Ascutney and Okemo. -The climbs are included in the total mileage and elevation, Ascutney is 7 miles and 2200’, Okemo is 8 miles and 2100’ of climbing.
Thursday – Six gaps - think we have 3-5 riders for this that will be strong, me, Gronk, James, Daniel Ballin & my friend Sven. Sven will be the weakest I think. Al will do a 2 gaps loop and SAG us.
Friday – long swim day, run 4-6 (scheduled as an off day from biking for camp)
Saturday – 100 mile, 7200 climbing(the hard 100), VT adaptive charity ride, everyone chooses their own route length(20/40/60/100/Hard 100) stocked rest stops , big party w bands, beer & food at Long Trail Brewery after ride.
Sunday - early 2 mile run, 35 mile bike – 8-9 mile run off the bike.
QUESTION - I've finally started taking the Casein protein the last few nights. I am assuming this shizz beats you up and you wake up feeling like shizz??? part of why I am not getting morning WKOs in... guessing there is a connection until I get used to it?
I am reading. I read them all. You didn’t have a question...so no reply. I can tell you that watch heart rate is insanely unreliable and there’s no way you should be using that as a metric to guide your training, please put a strap on your chest. 😂 I assume you are running by pace however....
casein doesn’t beat you up. I would think your increased training load and travel is what’s tiring you, not a supplement. We like to blame things not actions. Actions matter way more.
I like the full week, but if there’s anyway you can split up that long run I would appreciate it. I think 12 and five is pretty legit I would rather see you do 10 and seven for example, anything to ameliorate the single WKO load it would be good.
It’s going to be tempting to mash the pedals and so please keep the cadence up and make sure you are stretching every night. You will be twice as tired over this weekend as you were at our camp even though you aren’t at altitude and that’s normal. This is why that run frequency matters more we have to keep you safe.
I agree on running steady like Dr. Stu said, but it’s not all long and slow I’d rather have frequent and slow .
like i said, Please click like, agree or LOL so I know you saw it :-) and so I don't edit it!!!
use a Wahoo Tickr X HR strap in probably 97% of runs. Totally agree on garmin wrist HR sucking. I even checked to make sure HR strap was on and connected in that run!
I'm running by pain level 🙄
understood on long runs and runs in general, i think he was quoting more the LSR doctrine than saying "long" for every run... he's a very strong runner himself and does a lot of his training runs at slower paces.
Wednesday - 2 Big mtn climbs STEEP, like the gaps, 4 miles in length each on the 61 mile ride.
Thursday - 6 Gaps - you know the drill
Friday - run / swim day
Saturday - Vt Adaptive (Long trail brewery) ride, planning on the "harder" 100 difference between this and the ez 100 is apparently taking one of 2 parallel roads with more climbing.
Sunday 30 miles, ez climbing, long run after
THE QUESTION -
would you prefer me to do 6 gaps or 4 gaps on Thurdsay?
Easy running is the way to go right now. Ideally we want more quality but you aren’t in a place to handle it.
So jealous of your week. This dumb charity ride organizing thing...what was I thinking!!! 😂
I like all the riding, I think the 4 gap would be better so we can do the 100 the next day. That said if you’re too tired to go again for the adaptive (or long or weather sucks that day) the. Go six gaps and we figure it out.
The key is nothing too hard here. You can’t handle all that volume and 45’ at threshold watts...make sense?
See my week on TP and please tell me what you want me doing this week. I am planning a big swim week alternating 1500 yards MWF and 3500 TuTh and something additional Over weekend.
So bummed I couldn’t be in VT, but don’t count me out in the future. Barely made it through the fundraiser; it was the right call stay.
Anyway, nice work at HOFF CAMP!!!! 🎇💪✊
Tied for your biggest bike week TSS ever, back to 2016 (2017 was close at 1004)…this couldn’t have gone better in my opinion.
We don’t need more volume right now. We need the swim to jump up and the run to get back to 25 miles this week (As many short runs as you can make it happen).
Thursday is swim plus hour of bike intervals… warm up 30 minutes, then do 3 x 3’ (6’) as first at 350, rest at 325. Friday is swim and short run. Sat/Sun are two ABP rides in the 90 to 120 minute ranges. This could be hanging on the back of a fast group. Goal is time at 80-85% to capitalize of the volume of last week (and the volume to come).
As for the following week around the holiday, I am thinking of you doing:
Wed - Swim Long, then Bike 2.5 hour, run .5 hour all at IM pace.
Thu - Long run in late AM of about 90’ easy EASY (!!!!), enjoy the day.
Fri - long bike day. Easy run first to warm up for 30 mins, then a long ride of 4-5 hours.
Sat - Swim in lake, hour for a breakfast and transition, then long bike day of 4-5 hours. Can be on tri bike or gravel bike, this is just time.
Sun - Second long run of the week in the AM…not fast, just for time ideally in the 90’ range.
Mon- OFF
Tue - Swim long, 30’ easy run.
Wed - Bike 3 x 5’ (5’) as first one at 310, rest at 280. Short run.
Thu - Travel, long swim - ideally 3 loop if you can, pack a gel and sports drink!!!
Fri - Two loops and brick run.
Sat - 6 hours on the bike, again, ideally on a flattish course, locked in aerobats, smart with watts. 2 mile brick run (easy out, race pace back).
Sun - Long run of 2.5 hours…walk breaks okay, I don’t care. I want 2.5 hours. Think 2 miles running at goal race pace, then 5 minutes of brisk walking. Just hit lap button so we can separate them out.
not sure when we start the race execution discussion. The biggest question I have is on what we are using as watts for the bike execution, which I guess starts with FTP. you have me doing some of the WKOs above at IM Race pace, but I don't know what that is!!!
In past years I have done a series of weekly 2x20(2) FTP workouts after returning from Al Camp. In 2017, my average of 3-4 sessions was in the low 260s (Tribike, outdoors, hands on bullhorns). I have to think i am in that neighborhood. given that we are doing all these intervals inside on the road bike, I have zero idea what outside power looks like. Guessing you can SWAG that? or should we do a 2x20(2) on weds 7/10? instead of the workout you gave me.
FYI, legs still trashed from camp, was a fail on yesterdays intervals and this AM 8 mile run was a total shitshow..
@scott dinhofer I wasn’t planning on having a race execution discussion with you for at least another week, but you are right that you need some guidance with regards to race pace wattage. You have achieved your race Watts a little differently than you’ve done in past years due to how we have accelerated your bike. From looking at the data right now, Your target power for the race is the same: 190 W.
In 2017 you earned your FTP through those 20 minute intervals, this year we have done it with shorter intervals so the 20 minute number is not comparable. As of right now your 20 minute power is 250 while your 2017 20 minute power was 265. Doing 20 minute intervals right now is not the best use of your time.
This next especially relevant since you are fatigued...time to get race specific. pretty much all of your riding this week is at the Target Pace of 190 W. You can start a little easier and then build up and then finish the last 10 to 20% of your ride at 200 W or perhaps a little bit higher. But your goal is to maximize your speed at that number and then one off the bike when possible at your target pace.
Currently the only “hard“ Workout you have this week is tomorrow’s speed run, if you are concerned about the hamstrings then just make this a steady run and we will use this week for consolidation!
I have an 808 rear & 404 front. I also have the Zipp Super 9 disc.
would you ditch the disc and get the WB wheel cover, per al's post in the LP thread gearing thread? save the weight, sell the super9.. ? or just keep it as is?
still need answer to gear Q above... and as a follow up question, I assume I should ride at Least one LP course ride next week with the disc...?
Update to where I feel...
Weds - 2 1/2 hr bike went great. good run preceding it and a short swim in the afternoon
Thrs - long run went uneventful, started focusing on power, we can discuss, but definitely a good tool/whip, long swim in the afternoon
Fri - short run, long bike.. fueled up on pastries in a cafe at mile 25, rest of ride turned into a surviving the heat aid station to aid station... lots of good TT sections
Sat - early 3 1/2 hr ride. planned to do a longer gravel ride with jill, couldnt go where planned due to dropping off/ picking up kids from a swimming hole. got in 40 minutes, with some climbing. watts were suffering on back half of longer ride
both Fri & Sat rides had good long TT sections..
Sun long run, much slower than earlier in the week. short swim in lake before drive home...
@scott dinhofer - I think you are really splitting hairs between the 808 with a disc cover in the super nine disc. Both are super fast and the weight penalty is minimal on any Iron Man course that you and I will do. I personally don’t care what option you choose, I just want you on the desk. At this point by the time you order a cover and get it and install it he will have lost at least another week if not 10 days which would prohibit you from riding with a disk now, so I say just stick with what you’ve got and go either 404 or 808 on the front, I am always biased towards the deeper the better.
Yes to at least one full ride on Placid with the full race set up, we want to see how it feels — I’m not worried about the Watts or the speed just how the set up works for you.
I think last week was the best case scenario coming off of the work you did at your camp. Really excited to see the run mileage backwards should be in the solid work on the bike as well. Things are definitely coming together! This week we have a long run after two idea - all about pacing and fueling and mental toughness.
will stick with the Super 9 and have it on the bike for all riding from now until the event.
I went 808 on the front a couple of years ago and couldn't handle it in wind, so I stuck with the 404.
+3 on the mental toughness... All i was thinking was @coach wrote "slow and easy," because he knew it would be have to be that way! I also know how the legs will pop on race day after tapering for two weeks.. Focusing on swim yardage... and I will be reading Behler's RR and race plan from last year.
PERFECT on all accounts. Don’t be afraid to over fuel on your workouts if you are hurting, we want you to be strict with all your other calories but you need the stuff to work out and it’s good practice for race day.
if we can phone chat, I will be driving to LP alone on Thursday afternoon. best to get me from Lake george south which is likely between 1:30 & 3:45
1-BBS Power plan? am i using this? should i ride my rides this weekend using it? do you want to give me the inputs or a screen shot of it? or run the file and send to me? let's use weight of 147, i will be there or lower on race day (which SUX)
2-run power - stryd... I've been watching the numbers... seems like 225-233 is my sweet spot perhaps 240s on hills... thoughts? execution of 1st 6 miles? I have this belief that like riding the bike, downhill miles are run faster and uphill are run slower... just have to watch the governor of HR & Power... right?
Also, in addition to questions above.. am I riding at 190? or generating a NP of 190? thinking that to do the latter often requires riding 195ish...
in other words, I have a field now on computer for Lap NP, should i change that to lap AP?
also, what do YOU do for running shoe laces?? I have the boa system that they retrofit on shoes a few years ago at IM expo and have moved from shoe to shoe, thinking something else is better for the VF4%s?
Your BBS power plan is online here: bestbikesplit.com/client/129360 One of the things that BBS is really good at is allocating power for you to pushover small hills and maintain your momentum.
So it says roll flats at 180 NP but ride hills at 195 (roller/out of town), 205 (climb to wilmington), or 220 (whiteface section or that one kicker on Haselton on the way back).
Part of what your rides this weekend need to be are discerning the hills you should pushover vs the hills you need to respect. For example, there's a hill on 9N that's small ring worthy, but two that you can push over. You need to know those after this weekend.
I put the Cheat Sheet below for target watts vs terrain so you can ride to those numbers...
Top screen is 3s rolling AVG power (keeping it between 185 to 195-ish in general). Lap NP is 190 target.
Per the BBS stuff, you can either say No problem! all day or have th ON vs OFF approach...I have raced the BBS way my last 4 IMS and have generally shut it down with 90 minutes to go and ridden steady (your 176) and been fine as the early watts had me zipping. As I mentioned on the phone, I enjoy the work / recovery aspect of it.
Tell me what you think.
Run target is 220w for the day. Anything at that number and 130-135bpms has you happy. Downhill the watts and HR will drop but pace will be fine. Lap one, we use Power and HR as a gut check to stay in the right place. Lap two they are WHIPS getting you to work. You know the drill!
On BBS - sent you an email. I can't DL to wahoo same way as garmin. copying a file seems to take a VERY long time. I am supposed to authorize my BBS acount and it will grab from there.
can you either set it up in my account (I sent you the particulars) or give me a screen shot of the paramaters and I'll do it?
thanks
notes on ride today.
I am pretty sure I overshot the Turnaround in bobsled complex on 1st lap. definitly overshot the turnaround in hazelton by 1/2 mile
also overshot the new turnaround after Northwoods on lap 1 by over 1/2 mi.
ride was very difficult for me at this execution level. had a long break between laps. Room key got invalidated by phone and I am probably the furthest room from reception. had to mix bottles and do a few emails. made a few stops on lap two, one for food fuel in keene. dealt with a PT issue outside of keene and had a teenager trying to fedex me my stryd having issues on the Hazelton hill. Also, 1st lap had to stop for a construction blockage on the hazelton hill and a shifting issue by whiteface.
Your bonk comment, right on the money.. we;ll deal with it tomorrow. easy to solve.. have to bring cliff bars, eat a big breakfast etc.. had a flat bread with andy last night, also quinoa & barley in a healthy bowl and a piece of apple pie back at my hotel :-)
Per your bonk comment. - normal LP ride = 7 bottles plus 2-4 of the mini cliff bars 1-4 gels and a banana half or two.. Today, probably around 5-5.5 bottles, 1 cliff bar, 1 maple/bacon mini cheesecake at bakery in Keene on lap 2🤩
If i look at this NOW the morning after the ride, I probably over cooked the hills using the BBS method TOO hard... now have it loaded and will be more judgemental on how I ride certain hills. Loop two power was suffering on neg 1-2% and flats.. had it in my head that I could power up on hills, which I did, but those were 205-215 typically with a couple of spikes.. Re-read what you wrote above, have power plan, will over hydrate / fuel on this one and ride it even more smartly if I have the legs 😂 today!
so many questions after the two rides!!! steady power vs BBS method... thinking that Lap 1 for each day is a good comparison.. here are the 2 ride details side by side..
wondering how the F BBS expects me to do 5:20!
planting the stats below.. should we have a call this week? next week? coffee in LP? what days are you there?
Thanks for the quick note in for the ride to paradigm in the side-by-side table. Very helpful. And they mentioned in my text messages, I’m very pleased to see how close both days were. It obvious how much weather is a factor, but your ability to go back to the well and be just as strong on the 2nd day to as your first day is very encouraging. Add your long run to the mix and things are looking good. I agree, we should definitely have a call. What is your availability on Thursday? Shoot me a text and we will set it up.
I am assuming to jump into the normal taper as planned. Focus for me is more swim yardage as I think this is a week I can really get something done there without impacting race day. Agreed?
Run - will start with 2-4 Miles per day with a long run of an hour or more if I feel good with a hard cap of 1:20 on Thursday.
Bike - what should I do for Wednesday bike? schedule calls for 3x6 @ Zone 4
Hey, sorry I missed this...must have clicked on it and forgot. Dowh!
Tonight stick with 4 x 6'...try to go 250, 255, 260, 260....but you gotta stay on the hydration. I'd drink a full bottle of GE about one hour before and drink while riding as well. Don't beat yourself up too much, this is a stimulation workout to keep your fitness high as you taper.
Your plan is good in concept...frequent runs (with HR strap) all steady, focused on GOOD FORM and nice high cadence. Visualization time here. Hydrate on Thursday please as it's over an hour.
I adjusted swims a bit such that SAT is a S/B/R session. Think steady swim on the Vasa, then transition to bike followed by Brick. Sat will be HOT HOT HOT. It's not about pushing any numbers here, just awesome hydration, finding speed with minimal costs, and earning the right to eat lol.
Sunday is OFF but if you can OWS have fun. Then you are done baby done.
FYI - I always hydrate during trainer sessions and longer runs. 98% of time i have HR strap on.
doing ALL swims in pool as I need that more than VASA now. Also now doing all swims without floaty pants just in case. Also trying to do 13-15k swimming this week total...
just give me a like or agree below so I know you read this :-)
No rush, but would like to do a debrief call with you, though we had breakfast (thanks for that too!). I am seeing Dr Stu Today, PA for my shoulder guy tomorrow (he actually does PRP injections too) will be querying him on my leg. Adductor is pretty tender, have appointment with the partner that is hip/leg specialist next week.
-plan to resume running lightly this week
-get on bike this week, ez spin miles
-get in pool/on Vasa
Post race analysis. Regardless of how I allowed myself to implode on the run, this day and the camp weekend two weeks ago were huge learning experiences. I also know I put up a respectable time that most people would be very happy with and I did it with ease. I know I am just outside that Kona bubble and I need to show up, leaner, slightly fitter on the swim & bike, and have a healthy, unencumbered run build.
One thing I would LOVE to do is a shared screen evaluation of a micro analysis of lap one on the bike.. While the lap numbers look right, I am curious if I am riding hills too hard..
Comments
That’s about as good as we can hope for! I’m pleased with the total amount of work you were able to do, especially coming off of your big week on the bike last week, and all that travel and sitting time. You really have to be careful about that hamstring today, remember to stay loose and move about.
I will put your intervals into Final Surge later today. I agree with your assessment of the patriots, there is precious little to be gained from you racing this weekend and all of the travel and taper time or just have us miss out on a good consistent week both in terms of exercise but also work. And the keys this week are running consistency and getting those swims in!
did the 5x1 min pretty successfully Tues night.
did a 11 mile run weds am.. http://tpks.ws/EOBLGSEWFWSW7GXTIX2BA2VRQQ wanteed to get 4.5 weds night, kids actually wanted to talk to me. goal is to extend AM weekly split run by 1 mile in AM and 1/2 mile in PM. Dr Stu who is a big runner and 1x IM, thinks I need to just go Long Slow Miles on the pace, if it hurts, slow down.. Feels power and fitness will xover from strong focus on bike.
weird thing was that while running I noticed HR was in 180s which would be max heart rate for me. In the 5x1s, i only get to mid to high 160s. it didn't "feel" like 183 which was my peak 1 min HR according to TP. but the watch was saying it, i walked it down, played with chest strap, seemed fine after.. Only possibility was not being hydrated enough.
did Vasa weds night, got in a few door 3 50s, and a bunch of door 2 100s & 50s
swimming in pool Friday/ Sunday. gotta focus on that!
Note, will post plan for camp week on sunday night or Monday and we can fine tune it based on your input.
I assume you are reading my posts... if you aren't commenting, can you please give me an agree or like so I know you've been here!
didn't get 2nd run on Weds, kids actually wanted to speak to me and yesterday I finally got the FTP sets in last night. http://tpks.ws/BVXDUVYA5VLUFRMXBP6JBHWRHM 10'@276 & 10'@257
didn't run yesterday, got 5.5 Friday & planning 4-5 SAT, 5+ hr ride planned with my buddy james on tri bikes. Swam 3300 Fri in pool. Sunday big day - early AM swim in Pool, 1-1.5 hr bike. 9ish mile run. all by 12 noon! have twins Graduation lunch, ceremony, etc.. hopefully hitting 1000 TSS for the week
Goal is to end week with 32-35 miles running and creep this up between now and taper week (5 weeks away) at 38MPW which will mean getting some 2 mile runs in on the days I have been off.
NEXT WEEK - Camp Hoff here is my plan
Monday – Run 3 / swim 3500, 45 mins core/ weights, hip work
Tuesday – Long run day, 12 miles in AM, 5 miles in eve in VT
Wednesday – 3-4 mile run, then bike 60 with two climbs, swim after bike? -Ascutney and Okemo mountain climbs; 61 miles & 7300’ of climbing. https://ridewithgps.com/routes/28280337 -This ride is a 60 mile loop that includes the option to climb two mountains via out and back roads to the top, Ascutney and Okemo. -The climbs are included in the total mileage and elevation, Ascutney is 7 miles and 2200’, Okemo is 8 miles and 2100’ of climbing.
Thursday – Six gaps - think we have 3-5 riders for this that will be strong, me, Gronk, James, Daniel Ballin & my friend Sven. Sven will be the weakest I think. Al will do a 2 gaps loop and SAG us.
Friday – long swim day, run 4-6 (scheduled as an off day from biking for camp)
Saturday – 100 mile, 7200 climbing(the hard 100), VT adaptive charity ride, everyone chooses their own route length(20/40/60/100/Hard 100) stocked rest stops , big party w bands, beer & food at Long Trail Brewery after ride.
Sunday - early 2 mile run, 35 mile bike – 8-9 mile run off the bike.
QUESTION - I've finally started taking the Casein protein the last few nights. I am assuming this shizz beats you up and you wake up feeling like shizz??? part of why I am not getting morning WKOs in... guessing there is a connection until I get used to it?
I am reading. I read them all. You didn’t have a question...so no reply. I can tell you that watch heart rate is insanely unreliable and there’s no way you should be using that as a metric to guide your training, please put a strap on your chest. 😂 I assume you are running by pace however....
casein doesn’t beat you up. I would think your increased training load and travel is what’s tiring you, not a supplement. We like to blame things not actions. Actions matter way more.
I like the full week, but if there’s anyway you can split up that long run I would appreciate it. I think 12 and five is pretty legit I would rather see you do 10 and seven for example, anything to ameliorate the single WKO load it would be good.
It’s going to be tempting to mash the pedals and so please keep the cadence up and make sure you are stretching every night. You will be twice as tired over this weekend as you were at our camp even though you aren’t at altitude and that’s normal. This is why that run frequency matters more we have to keep you safe.
I agree on running steady like Dr. Stu said, but it’s not all long and slow I’d rather have frequent and slow .
like i said, Please click like, agree or LOL so I know you saw it :-) and so I don't edit it!!!
use a Wahoo Tickr X HR strap in probably 97% of runs. Totally agree on garmin wrist HR sucking. I even checked to make sure HR strap was on and connected in that run!
I'm running by pain level 🙄
understood on long runs and runs in general, i think he was quoting more the LSR doctrine than saying "long" for every run... he's a very strong runner himself and does a lot of his training runs at slower paces.
okay, a Question!!!
Ride plan for this week
Wednesday - 2 Big mtn climbs STEEP, like the gaps, 4 miles in length each on the 61 mile ride.
Thursday - 6 Gaps - you know the drill
Friday - run / swim day
Saturday - Vt Adaptive (Long trail brewery) ride, planning on the "harder" 100 difference between this and the ez 100 is apparently taking one of 2 parallel roads with more climbing.
Sunday 30 miles, ez climbing, long run after
THE QUESTION -
would you prefer me to do 6 gaps or 4 gaps on Thurdsay?
here's a view of all the rides
Wednesday Ride - https://ridewithgps.com/routes/28280337
Thursday Gaps Day Rides
2 gaps - https://ridewithgps.com/routes/29272059
4 gaps - https://ridewithgps.com/routes/26802225
6 gaps - https://ridewithgps.com/routes/29271921
Friday Rides
easier ride 99 miles/4451 Climbing
Harder ride 101 miles/ 7290' of climbing
btw I think at least one route map is screwed up and the difference isn't as big as they make it.
potential Sunday Rides
30 / 1740 - https://ridewithgps.com/routes/30263204
31 / 2100 - https://ridewithgps.com/routes/29522866
45 / 2900 - https://ridewithgps.com/routes/26802207
Easy running is the way to go right now. Ideally we want more quality but you aren’t in a place to handle it.
So jealous of your week. This dumb charity ride organizing thing...what was I thinking!!! 😂
I like all the riding, I think the 4 gap would be better so we can do the 100 the next day. That said if you’re too tired to go again for the adaptive (or long or weather sucks that day) the. Go six gaps and we figure it out.
The key is nothing too hard here. You can’t handle all that volume and 45’ at threshold watts...make sense?
jealous in Barrington,
~ Coach P
not sure you have the schedule correct
weds - 60 mile ride with 2 major climbs, swim
Thursday - six (or four) gaps
Friday - NO BIKING - log run? def long swim
saturday - 100 mile ride, short run
sunday - short ride - long run
does Friday no biking change your thoughts on going for the big ride?!
you can still come up any day and change your signature to "stoked in Vt!"
Legs trashed from Camp Hoff
See my week on TP and please tell me what you want me doing this week. I am planning a big swim week alternating 1500 yards MWF and 3500 TuTh and something additional Over weekend.
Saturday big ride - short run
Sunday Short ride/ long run
Unless Yu think differently
in addition to above, need to know what you want me doing for a long ride this weekend.
lastly, I am planning on being in VT July 3-7, can do a volume pop there, any guidance would be good.
also, planning on a camp weekend july 11-14, looks like 11/12 in LP & 12 eve through 14 in VT.
thinking:
Thursday swim in Mirror lake
Friday full distance 2 loop bike + 6 mile run, drive to VT
Saturday - what distance/ time bike? followed by run?
sunday - long run & a swim
Monday 7/15 start taper for race day 7/28
So bummed I couldn’t be in VT, but don’t count me out in the future. Barely made it through the fundraiser; it was the right call stay.
Anyway, nice work at HOFF CAMP!!!! 🎇💪✊
Tied for your biggest bike week TSS ever, back to 2016 (2017 was close at 1004)…this couldn’t have gone better in my opinion.
We don’t need more volume right now. We need the swim to jump up and the run to get back to 25 miles this week (As many short runs as you can make it happen).
Thursday is swim plus hour of bike intervals… warm up 30 minutes, then do 3 x 3’ (6’) as first at 350, rest at 325. Friday is swim and short run. Sat/Sun are two ABP rides in the 90 to 120 minute ranges. This could be hanging on the back of a fast group. Goal is time at 80-85% to capitalize of the volume of last week (and the volume to come).
As for the following week around the holiday, I am thinking of you doing:
Wed - Swim Long, then Bike 2.5 hour, run .5 hour all at IM pace.
Thu - Long run in late AM of about 90’ easy EASY (!!!!), enjoy the day.
Fri - long bike day. Easy run first to warm up for 30 mins, then a long ride of 4-5 hours.
Sat - Swim in lake, hour for a breakfast and transition, then long bike day of 4-5 hours. Can be on tri bike or gravel bike, this is just time.
Sun - Second long run of the week in the AM…not fast, just for time ideally in the 90’ range.
Mon- OFF
Tue - Swim long, 30’ easy run.
Wed - Bike 3 x 5’ (5’) as first one at 310, rest at 280. Short run.
Thu - Travel, long swim - ideally 3 loop if you can, pack a gel and sports drink!!!
Fri - Two loops and brick run.
Sat - 6 hours on the bike, again, ideally on a flattish course, locked in aerobats, smart with watts. 2 mile brick run (easy out, race pace back).
Sun - Long run of 2.5 hours…walk breaks okay, I don’t care. I want 2.5 hours. Think 2 miles running at goal race pace, then 5 minutes of brisk walking. Just hit lap button so we can separate them out.
Monday OFF
not sure when we start the race execution discussion. The biggest question I have is on what we are using as watts for the bike execution, which I guess starts with FTP. you have me doing some of the WKOs above at IM Race pace, but I don't know what that is!!!
In past years I have done a series of weekly 2x20(2) FTP workouts after returning from Al Camp. In 2017, my average of 3-4 sessions was in the low 260s (Tribike, outdoors, hands on bullhorns). I have to think i am in that neighborhood. given that we are doing all these intervals inside on the road bike, I have zero idea what outside power looks like. Guessing you can SWAG that? or should we do a 2x20(2) on weds 7/10? instead of the workout you gave me.
FYI, legs still trashed from camp, was a fail on yesterdays intervals and this AM 8 mile run was a total shitshow..
@scott dinhofer I wasn’t planning on having a race execution discussion with you for at least another week, but you are right that you need some guidance with regards to race pace wattage. You have achieved your race Watts a little differently than you’ve done in past years due to how we have accelerated your bike. From looking at the data right now, Your target power for the race is the same: 190 W.
In 2017 you earned your FTP through those 20 minute intervals, this year we have done it with shorter intervals so the 20 minute number is not comparable. As of right now your 20 minute power is 250 while your 2017 20 minute power was 265. Doing 20 minute intervals right now is not the best use of your time.
This next especially relevant since you are fatigued...time to get race specific. pretty much all of your riding this week is at the Target Pace of 190 W. You can start a little easier and then build up and then finish the last 10 to 20% of your ride at 200 W or perhaps a little bit higher. But your goal is to maximize your speed at that number and then one off the bike when possible at your target pace.
Currently the only “hard“ Workout you have this week is tomorrow’s speed run, if you are concerned about the hamstrings then just make this a steady run and we will use this week for consolidation!
Equipment question -
I have an 808 rear & 404 front. I also have the Zipp Super 9 disc.
would you ditch the disc and get the WB wheel cover, per al's post in the LP thread gearing thread? save the weight, sell the super9.. ? or just keep it as is?
still need answer to gear Q above... and as a follow up question, I assume I should ride at Least one LP course ride next week with the disc...?
Update to where I feel...
Weds - 2 1/2 hr bike went great. good run preceding it and a short swim in the afternoon
Thrs - long run went uneventful, started focusing on power, we can discuss, but definitely a good tool/whip, long swim in the afternoon
Fri - short run, long bike.. fueled up on pastries in a cafe at mile 25, rest of ride turned into a surviving the heat aid station to aid station... lots of good TT sections
Sat - early 3 1/2 hr ride. planned to do a longer gravel ride with jill, couldnt go where planned due to dropping off/ picking up kids from a swimming hole. got in 40 minutes, with some climbing. watts were suffering on back half of longer ride
both Fri & Sat rides had good long TT sections..
Sun long run, much slower than earlier in the week. short swim in lake before drive home...
now for another big week!
@scott dinhofer - I think you are really splitting hairs between the 808 with a disc cover in the super nine disc. Both are super fast and the weight penalty is minimal on any Iron Man course that you and I will do. I personally don’t care what option you choose, I just want you on the desk. At this point by the time you order a cover and get it and install it he will have lost at least another week if not 10 days which would prohibit you from riding with a disk now, so I say just stick with what you’ve got and go either 404 or 808 on the front, I am always biased towards the deeper the better.
Yes to at least one full ride on Placid with the full race set up, we want to see how it feels — I’m not worried about the Watts or the speed just how the set up works for you.
I think last week was the best case scenario coming off of the work you did at your camp. Really excited to see the run mileage backwards should be in the solid work on the bike as well. Things are definitely coming together! This week we have a long run after two idea - all about pacing and fueling and mental toughness.
will stick with the Super 9 and have it on the bike for all riding from now until the event.
I went 808 on the front a couple of years ago and couldn't handle it in wind, so I stuck with the 404.
+3 on the mental toughness... All i was thinking was @coach wrote "slow and easy," because he knew it would be have to be that way! I also know how the legs will pop on race day after tapering for two weeks.. Focusing on swim yardage... and I will be reading Behler's RR and race plan from last year.
PERFECT on all accounts. Don’t be afraid to over fuel on your workouts if you are hurting, we want you to be strict with all your other calories but you need the stuff to work out and it’s good practice for race day.
QUESTIONS on Weekend execution -
if we can phone chat, I will be driving to LP alone on Thursday afternoon. best to get me from Lake george south which is likely between 1:30 & 3:45
1-BBS Power plan? am i using this? should i ride my rides this weekend using it? do you want to give me the inputs or a screen shot of it? or run the file and send to me? let's use weight of 147, i will be there or lower on race day (which SUX)
2-run power - stryd... I've been watching the numbers... seems like 225-233 is my sweet spot perhaps 240s on hills... thoughts? execution of 1st 6 miles? I have this belief that like riding the bike, downhill miles are run faster and uphill are run slower... just have to watch the governor of HR & Power... right?
Also, in addition to questions above.. am I riding at 190? or generating a NP of 190? thinking that to do the latter often requires riding 195ish...
in other words, I have a field now on computer for Lap NP, should i change that to lap AP?
also, what do YOU do for running shoe laces?? I have the boa system that they retrofit on shoes a few years ago at IM expo and have moved from shoe to shoe, thinking something else is better for the VF4%s?
Your BBS power plan is online here: bestbikesplit.com/client/129360 One of the things that BBS is really good at is allocating power for you to pushover small hills and maintain your momentum.
So it says roll flats at 180 NP but ride hills at 195 (roller/out of town), 205 (climb to wilmington), or 220 (whiteface section or that one kicker on Haselton on the way back).
Part of what your rides this weekend need to be are discerning the hills you should pushover vs the hills you need to respect. For example, there's a hill on 9N that's small ring worthy, but two that you can push over. You need to know those after this weekend.
I put the Cheat Sheet below for target watts vs terrain so you can ride to those numbers...
Top screen is 3s rolling AVG power (keeping it between 185 to 195-ish in general). Lap NP is 190 target.
Per the BBS stuff, you can either say No problem! all day or have th ON vs OFF approach...I have raced the BBS way my last 4 IMS and have generally shut it down with 90 minutes to go and ridden steady (your 176) and been fine as the early watts had me zipping. As I mentioned on the phone, I enjoy the work / recovery aspect of it.
Tell me what you think.
Run target is 220w for the day. Anything at that number and 130-135bpms has you happy. Downhill the watts and HR will drop but pace will be fine. Lap one, we use Power and HR as a gut check to stay in the right place. Lap two they are WHIPS getting you to work. You know the drill!
On BBS - sent you an email. I can't DL to wahoo same way as garmin. copying a file seems to take a VERY long time. I am supposed to authorize my BBS acount and it will grab from there.
can you either set it up in my account (I sent you the particulars) or give me a screen shot of the paramaters and I'll do it?
thanks
notes on ride today.
I am pretty sure I overshot the Turnaround in bobsled complex on 1st lap. definitly overshot the turnaround in hazelton by 1/2 mile
also overshot the new turnaround after Northwoods on lap 1 by over 1/2 mi.
ride was very difficult for me at this execution level. had a long break between laps. Room key got invalidated by phone and I am probably the furthest room from reception. had to mix bottles and do a few emails. made a few stops on lap two, one for food fuel in keene. dealt with a PT issue outside of keene and had a teenager trying to fedex me my stryd having issues on the Hazelton hill. Also, 1st lap had to stop for a construction blockage on the hazelton hill and a shifting issue by whiteface.
Your bonk comment, right on the money.. we;ll deal with it tomorrow. easy to solve.. have to bring cliff bars, eat a big breakfast etc.. had a flat bread with andy last night, also quinoa & barley in a healthy bowl and a piece of apple pie back at my hotel :-)
Per your bonk comment. - normal LP ride = 7 bottles plus 2-4 of the mini cliff bars 1-4 gels and a banana half or two.. Today, probably around 5-5.5 bottles, 1 cliff bar, 1 maple/bacon mini cheesecake at bakery in Keene on lap 2🤩
If i look at this NOW the morning after the ride, I probably over cooked the hills using the BBS method TOO hard... now have it loaded and will be more judgemental on how I ride certain hills. Loop two power was suffering on neg 1-2% and flats.. had it in my head that I could power up on hills, which I did, but those were 205-215 typically with a couple of spikes.. Re-read what you wrote above, have power plan, will over hydrate / fuel on this one and ride it even more smartly if I have the legs 😂 today!
so many questions after the two rides!!! steady power vs BBS method... thinking that Lap 1 for each day is a good comparison.. here are the 2 ride details side by side..
wondering how the F BBS expects me to do 5:20!
planting the stats below.. should we have a call this week? next week? coffee in LP? what days are you there?
Thanks for the quick note in for the ride to paradigm in the side-by-side table. Very helpful. And they mentioned in my text messages, I’m very pleased to see how close both days were. It obvious how much weather is a factor, but your ability to go back to the well and be just as strong on the 2nd day to as your first day is very encouraging. Add your long run to the mix and things are looking good. I agree, we should definitely have a call. What is your availability on Thursday? Shoot me a text and we will set it up.
what should I be doing this week?
I am assuming to jump into the normal taper as planned. Focus for me is more swim yardage as I think this is a week I can really get something done there without impacting race day. Agreed?
Run - will start with 2-4 Miles per day with a long run of an hour or more if I feel good with a hard cap of 1:20 on Thursday.
Bike - what should I do for Wednesday bike? schedule calls for 3x6 @ Zone 4
Hey, sorry I missed this...must have clicked on it and forgot. Dowh!
Tonight stick with 4 x 6'...try to go 250, 255, 260, 260....but you gotta stay on the hydration. I'd drink a full bottle of GE about one hour before and drink while riding as well. Don't beat yourself up too much, this is a stimulation workout to keep your fitness high as you taper.
Your plan is good in concept...frequent runs (with HR strap) all steady, focused on GOOD FORM and nice high cadence. Visualization time here. Hydrate on Thursday please as it's over an hour.
I adjusted swims a bit such that SAT is a S/B/R session. Think steady swim on the Vasa, then transition to bike followed by Brick. Sat will be HOT HOT HOT. It's not about pushing any numbers here, just awesome hydration, finding speed with minimal costs, and earning the right to eat lol.
Sunday is OFF but if you can OWS have fun. Then you are done baby done.
Keep me in the loop!
~ Coach P
thanks!
FYI - I always hydrate during trainer sessions and longer runs. 98% of time i have HR strap on.
doing ALL swims in pool as I need that more than VASA now. Also now doing all swims without floaty pants just in case. Also trying to do 13-15k swimming this week total...
just give me a like or agree below so I know you read this :-)
No rush, but would like to do a debrief call with you, though we had breakfast (thanks for that too!). I am seeing Dr Stu Today, PA for my shoulder guy tomorrow (he actually does PRP injections too) will be querying him on my leg. Adductor is pretty tender, have appointment with the partner that is hip/leg specialist next week.
-plan to resume running lightly this week
-get on bike this week, ez spin miles
-get in pool/on Vasa
Post race analysis. Regardless of how I allowed myself to implode on the run, this day and the camp weekend two weeks ago were huge learning experiences. I also know I put up a respectable time that most people would be very happy with and I did it with ease. I know I am just outside that Kona bubble and I need to show up, leaner, slightly fitter on the swim & bike, and have a healthy, unencumbered run build.
One thing I would LOVE to do is a shared screen evaluation of a micro analysis of lap one on the bike.. While the lap numbers look right, I am curious if I am riding hills too hard..
will report in on Doc results as I get em.
Bike chart for reference, can we viewed here -