@scott dinhofer - bummer on the cold but sounds like you forged a nice balance between training, fun and some recovery. Hopefully that "thing" is on the way out...if not, let me know!
The VO2 stuff is epic, and yes, that's the hardest 80 TSS you'll ever earn. I remember making fun of the shorter / harder workouts with lots of rest last year....and then I shut up after the first one and was thankful for the Z1 pedal time between reps and sets.
Here are my thoughts for your week:
Thu - Saturday bike session. Planned WKO or This is Stage 1 of Tour de zwift which is Jungle loop...bet you could find some folks riding your ABP effort and stick with them (you just have to make it over that first beastly hill). That would be a 90' effort. Short brick run of 2 miles.
Fri - Off if you are still sick/feeling it, otherwise some CORE and an easy 3 to 5 miles is fine.
Sat - SKIMO and PICS PLEASE
Sun - Endurance Day...I'd take an easy spin and easy run combo in the 2 to 2.5 hour range. Goal will be to recover a bit from SAT and set you up for a strong week ahead. You could do more but I don't think it's worth it.
Not sold on the R2R2R unless this is your only shot...we got biking to do brobeans!
~ Patrick
PS Tucker is a beast!!! What inspiration! He's all "Um Daddy, U OK?!?"
Hear you on the R2R2R - I am sure I'll do it some day and frankly, it's not very high on my list.
just signed up for "the Overland," a 50 mile epic gravel race in VT, late August. Thing sold out 500 spots in 12 minutes! I am thinking about something like Dirty Kanza in 2020.
btw, have to get a better pic of Tucker, no joke, I want his body comp! Friggin pooch is lean!
did the T de Z last night. read my mini report on it as a comparison to intervals in the zwift vs interval thread
definitly learned how to race. it is clear being a guy who is at the top of Cs and bottom of the Bs (did it at 3.2W/Kg)
also, can you reconstruct the peak power comparison chart on my TP? I went to look at it and it wasn't working, tried to adjust, didnt' work, deleted and tried to reset it up and it still failed.. thinking it may be a bug with TP..
Saw the report...there are pluses and minuses to both approaches, I think it's a function of what your goals are, where you are right now in terms of fitness, and what you LIKE to do (personality). Right now I say the intervals are sufficient except for the odd (1x every 1 or 2 weeks) harder effort of a race.
Really want to save the racing for later, a bit more post OS!
Your peak power looks good to me in TP.com... And I love the 20' power is already better than last years peak...onwards!!
Great call yesterday...I like the theme of "Line In The Sand" for this time of year. Here are the short term goals for us through the last four weeks of the OS.
Get back to running frequency. I'm not worried about mileage, it's more getting 5-ish runs in that matters more.
During you ski trip; I agree that you should ski your butt off while you are up there. Let's consider it a reward for discipline for the PRE and POST ski trip weeks.
New Years Resolutions To Work In:
2 to 3 days a week of body work.
Vasa 2 days a week...I'd keep this to 1k max. First few weeks are just getting loose, damper door 1, etc.
Your quad...just wondering If it's your VMO? See image / link here and let me know!
PS New Skimo Gear for racing???!! Let's see some pictures.
here;s a couple of pics showing the place that i have issues. It isn't Knee pain as described in the VMO article, it's actual muscle weakness. I feel cramping in that area first (when I cramp). I try to show it with the two pics below, it is likely either the VM or the Vastus Lateralis
Ski porn??? I REALLY don't think you want to see gear!
note went to dinner last night with Ally, last chance to see her b4 she goes back to School, had to do that instead of working out. Did one 20' FTP interval this AM at 246 (tested FTP # a few weeks ago) going for scheduled weds long run, we'll see if I can push as per OS plan.. or not.. minimum i will get the mileage and 1:30 on my feet in
yeah, I guess same area ... so here's an update.. the morning after i did those hip exercises, which I do 1-3x a week, i woke up with a major pain in a diff muscle... hard to walk (seriously) and my left hip hurting bad... exactly what I had on the right side after IMKY 2017. so... I've had a shitty run week. 4Mi Weds, 2 mi Thrs, Sami & Drove up late Thurs night to play hookie and ski on Friday. Saturday did a solid 2 hr bike with 2x20 sweet spot and then went out and ran 7 1/2 miles at 8:04... hip did not hurt during run, but hurt after. Today I did the Cruise and crush, just tried to run at 3:45 PM, but legs felt to fatigued...
Plan forward - swim in an hour or so on vasa, 1200ish M
run every day this week if let feels ok, aim is to get 20 miles in 4 days. If I can, given day off today, may try to do 7+ each day and get to 30 before leaving. fly to CO friday, Ski FR/Sa/Su/Mo - planning on a huge Day on Saturday, going to try for the elusive 40k feet in elevation, which is a VERY long day at Vail. Steph Stevens and I will doing that. Will try to run Sat & Sun morning.
will play hip/ muscle issue day to day. I know what I went through 2 years ago and what it is and isn't, have to continue building hamstring & glute strength. Which is odd because I've done that this year.
Assuming that I am ok per doc, thinking about post-vail training? should i continue OS as written with the breaks I've had? Repeat the last 4 weeks of OS? something else to keep intensity up? I think I will be ok to run 30-35 mpw, but I think a big key is reducing long runs, reintroducing 7 day a week running, and getting a bunch of 4 mile days in to drive down the longer days needed. Frequency vs longer runs will solve this problem.
Bike - need to continue to push that 260/255 FTP effort and build wattage. My goal is to get to LP at 4.4 W/KG which is 275/280 outdoor watts at 138lbs. My lifetime high was 267, so I am confident we can get there.
Swim - going to get swimfit from now through end of Feb. March i will be going to swimlabs and getting coaching on developing a stronger hi elbow catch. BTW, can i get the video that you posted of Vasa? it showed me exactly what good Hi EC form looks like on Vasa. Going to be using video alot to work on that, swim labs does that in an endless pool.
Diet - hoff's winter challenge commenced, 146 by 3/1... vail is going to make that tough!
Btw, picked up my new skimo shit when i was at the house on Thursday night. HOLY SHIT this stuff is light.. think about it this way, my alpine touring boots that i used for the 1st race, are half the weight of my regular ski boots and these are half the weight of those. I could spend another $800 to get THE lightest boots, but those woould only be 100 grams more than current, new skis are THE lightest skimo ski/binding combo.
Sorry to hear about the hip. The body is a mysterious thing! I agree, don’t worry about the long run right now, it is all about the frequency. Here is a great pre-run warm up for your hips if you aren’t already doing one:
Did the 2 OS bikes this week and 2 runs (M/W) of 7.6 + 8.4 miles.
saw Hip ortho today. Turns out he lives right by me and runs on same path as me. So good news is, he's a runner! Given that my pain has receded tremendously, he thinks even though I do have some ongoing hip pain that it was likely my hip flexors tightening up. Not sure if I am convinced. He has no problem with 30ish miles a week, but much prefers the idea of lower volume individual runs. So, i will stay off the long runs and focus on the streak again with an average of 5+ per day. Long runs of 8, shorter runs as well, total volume to be 32ish per week.
leaving for CO tomorrow. will focus on epic long days of hard skiing, will make an attempt on the bike tuesday night when back, and finish out last week of NOS strong... should we have a call during testing week to discuss what's next for me?
Yes, let’s schedule a call for Thursday or Friday to get you back on track it to see how your body handles all that skiing. We can’t rule out your hip flexors unless you’ve been stretching them pretty religiously. It only takes a few seconds but makes a big difference, best done after a bike workout when you are already all warmed up.
got in 2 1/2 days of skiing. Skied pretty hard for at least two of those. Girls bagged out early on Monday, dad wanted to hike the top ridge of keystone, next year no kids, and I am bringing my skins to hike up there! Aside from obvious soreness, legs feel good and more importantly, hip & hammy feels good!
thoughts I have - PMC is flat for the last 4 weeks. I really did ok the holiday week and week after running/ cold nursing, seems like bike suffered.
Assuming I jump back in with a 30-32 mpw run - that's probably about 350TSS, start vasa 1200-1500 meters 2 pw - 45-50 TSS; need to get 300-360 TSSpw from Bike.
Separate question - any thoughts on how a trip like this might interfere with training? It would be pretty hard work every day at altitude. It would likely interfere with the NYGF... reminder, the PRIMARY objective is more important
a lil late on bike this week, Sami came home early and do to a rebuild of basement I now have trainer out of Bedroom, but in living area outside her lower level BR...
so, let's Swag my FTP and how you want me doing WKOs... I last tested a few weeks ago at 246 (2x20(2) test)
First Interval was 1' at 240-246, 5' at 260-265, 4' at 252. Next set was pretty similar but slightly weaker. 3rd set I tried to do the 260 for 2 1/2 mins and blew up, dialed it down to 225/230 for a couple of minutes and ramped up every minute back to 260...
I am trying to go to VT this weekend, so will do the blastoffs Thursday evening so I have 18 hours of recovery (and 2 runs) between the bikes. (Ran Treddy 4mi last night & 3mi this AM, just did another 3 mi on way home, now getting on bike... and looking for your answer
Friday AM will try to do 3(or 4)x25(5) APB, run & skimo over the weekend. did one short swim this week, will have another in tonight and likely a Sunday night cruise and crush of my own.
for next week's 2x20, I am thinking that the accumulated fatigue and length of interval says to start out at 247 and ramp up to 255/160 at 15' in 1st interval and see how that goes. then do the same in 2nd interval, if not earlier.
thoughts? and thoughts on FTP #? thinking that 246ish# is pretty accurate, maybe just push to 250 instead?
Note TSS on my Zwift reads higher than on TP
also note that left hammy is hurting a bit from run.. doing stretching, foam rolling and strenghtening..
to answer question.. only time I noticed the Hammy was during the middle of the Z3 interval at end, did not bother me during the blastoffs. My HR maxing out at 169 in interval 3 SUCKED ARSE.
here's what I think is going on.. I believe I likely did some kind of nerve damage when I herniated my disc three years ago. This is most affected area is that area inside of left quad just back from the knee joint. Assuming that is the case, and while it does manifest on the bike (when I do long rides too early in season, it's the first place I get cramping) it's clear that other muscles have to be taking over and providing support. On the run this is bad and likely what contributed to my hip pain.
Going to consult with my chiro who is a great physiologist and then go see a neurologist. I think the right thing to do meantime is likely, lots of self care, stretching, strengthening and likely hold off on running speedwork..
btw, this AM weight, 151.8. my 2 lowest weights were 152 in 2013 when I sherpa'd Teri in Kona & 147 at IMLP '17. Going to be 147 or under by 3/1, Jill and I are doing a no carb for 2 weeks challenge.
Ok, thanks for the bump...and great work on both sets. The fitness is there...the issue is getting back to wrk has too high of an aerobic cost for you. In English? You ain't recovering well enough between the bouts of work. Here's what the FTP looks like (the Blast offs are totally more noticeable)...
So here's what we are going to do for next week:
Cap The FTP intervals at 10’ (don't kill me re zwift WKO creation)
And the rest interval is what it takes to get to 115 for more than 30". This means rest will grow a bit between the 10'. Could be 4'...then 5'...then 6, etc.
Basically I want More time at the higher power more Than I want "any time" at 20 minutes. And the rest between each one will give you the time needed to Do that work.
Some part of your brain calls this "cheating" right now but tell me what you think by the 4th 10' next week. 🤣
Re the hammy, I agree with your diagnosis and that reducing speed work right now (in favor of durability / frequency is key). Sidebar, I am curious To know what percentage of your running each week is on the treadmill? That can be a hamstring killer As you don't really fully extend the leg to toe off...
Are you doing any glute activations? Sometimes the hammy takes over when the glute isn’t firing. You need to push thru the big toe to activate the glute med...even bridging for 5 x 30’ can Be enough to make It start to fire first. Ideally you do These barefoot and push big toe down can help).
Macro wise you are on your way back...the body comp is a reflection of your total early season commitment that can "put up" with a trip to CO and work/life issues. We want to keep that system rolling. No one single workout is THAT important that it should ruin the system you have built! 👍
Looking forward to seeing what your weekend WKO data looks like!
all makes sense. sorta... Is FTP in your mind where the red bars are roughly? also, you do realize that wko pic above is the 3x10s and not the blast offs, right?
Rest was cut short by need to push tuesday night workout to Wednesday AM because Sami came home early Weds! better future planning coming!
did 3x10 last week, do 4x10 this coming week? or repeat 3x10? Grow the rest interval in the wko, no prob..
when do I move to 4x10?
" More time at the higher power more Than I want "any time" at 20 minutes." - so you want me to keep pushing the #s up starting at 260is (i had the trainer set at 265, was averaging 262 for that section) even if it means a 3rd or 4th interval looking like the 3rd one in Wednesday's wko?
interesting analysis of TM.. this only flared up when arctic blast forced me on the TM, I've been doing almost all of my runs outside. I know the right layers and gloves for every 10 degrees and a beard helps! also have that sick high powered headlamp and a great bikepath (if you aren't crashing your bike on it)
weekend workouts are only running & skimo.. hopefully a sunday night bike and trying to do some APB sets this AM... i get a good 15 day cycle of workouts starting monday with 2 weeks and not leaving to VT for break until sunday of prez weekend. have to figure out getting bike up there for that. Might just box and ship it.. and send back that way..
Activations, familiar with the concept. Going to speak to my trainer buddy as he'll have some things I can do on floor with tennis ball or something to do that as well.
btw, I've become a wiz at writing wkos and adjusting them, secret - you can drag any wko into zwofactory and then edit it, save it as a new one, ezpeazy, get me the wkos for all early next year and I'll crank em out on the desktop with two screens. Also got the email going to the Zwift guy last night, hoping to get on phone with him today or Monday to push the jerzey thing. When i saw the Splunk/CA guys get one it hit me... Any luck trying to figure out a partnership with WBR? or did that die? those people are SOOO plugged into SRAM, ZIPP & Zwift. I raise so little for them, but they love how I use it as a tool for my annual compensation survey and get them exposure..
UPDATED - just ran 4MI on TM and Hammy less bothersome..
yo, @Coach Patrick can you answer the Qs 2 posts above on FTP? how long of a rest interval? the other Qs and of course comment on the rest.. I decided to give hips a rest, did 2 days of skimo (new race gear changes the dynamic, was actually running on skis... ) only 550 TSS last week, but hitting it hard for the next 15 days before feb vacation. bringing bike to VT to get in bike sessions in VT.
@scott dinhofer Sorry for the delay was on Le Mountain this weekend in Mt Snow...some great conditions even though it was a bit windy.
Re FTP, yes I know that was the 3x10s...the Blast Offs showed WORSE/LESS recovery because of the effort. What we are Trying to Do is maximize FTP time. As you get fitter, your HR will recover faster. Until you hit that point, pushing again without a lower HR (aka Happy Place HR) means you'll be pushing less watts.
So 3 x 10 right now, and the rest as needed. We don't need 4 x 10 on the same trajectory, it's about the quality not the progression. You did better on the 3x10s this weekend with 50% rest (5') as efforts 1/2/3 were consistent. I think we are on to something.
That said, glad you rested. You need to listen to your body and I like the compromise of Doing a different activity and getting the time in. That consistency matters during this re-entry. And the 15-day window is perfect for focus...you got this!!!
Mt Snow??!! Good on you, spent more time there than anywhere else and have to be honest, there are more challenging trails that I've not really found at Okemo.. that said, I am hoping to spend a bunch of time going backcountry. I got hooked up with a dude who just moved back to VT , last year he broke the record for most uphill skiing in a year... 2.5million' average of 5000' a day for a year... This guy is going to guide me a few times it looks like! Great video if interested - about 20 mins - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKidiVrT_Uk&vl=en
anyways.. bad week last week. the longer bikes are killing me and I didn't even get the run mileage in. Good news is the hip seems to be not as aggravated, part of why I didn't run yesterday. Started doing some strength, flexibility training with a trainer (Leslie Schneider works at my gym, so she gets the nod for understanding my goals!) Had our first session today and I am pumped.. she's really focused on the right things and I will be doing 2 more full sessions a week on my own using what she's doing. we are focused on legs & core.
started off today with a 2 mile run. WIll likely do 2 more tonight after a Vasa, goal is to run every day this week, with the "off day" being 1.25 miles.
Going to hit the bike tomorrow afternoon and do the 3x10s, continue pushing minutes 2-6 as 265 vs 250 setting on effort. will extend in third interval if i am hitting #s, last week was only 2.5 mins in the last interval at higher effort.
Good, Bad, I don't care as long as you are doing something. So I am happy with 2 miles am, 2 miles pm, etc...we don't _need_ long runs at this point. The bike is the focus point (for quality and optional volume), the skimo is a great cross training tool. Run? Just frequency...running is a skill...right now we need the strength / mobility to make sure that you are running "healthy."
running daily, trying to manage a 23-28 mile week. Heading to VT on Sunday, so I should be able to get in all wkos except possibly a CnC on Sunday. Have to go to Rochester NY 1st for a LAX clinic, then drive to VT, longggg day.
next week, i WILL have bike with me in VT with trainer that lives there, planning on doing the Tue/Thrs wko and hopefully at least the 1st 90' of Saturday. at least 2-3 skimo sessions and a daily run.
Seeing Leslie Schneider tomorrow, legs still hurting from the work she did Monday.. but I won't see her again until 10 days from tomorrow.
weight - 149.8 strong progress.
left hammy still a bit eh..
just posting in case you have any suggestions. Assuming i will do 3x10 on Tuesday with a push of 5-6' at higher (265) vs FTP tested (246) setting
@scott dinhofer You are in a good place right now..we can't get greedy with the run just yet. So keep it aerobic and rolling...I would not run and skimo in the same day...pick one and get it done.
Tell leslie she beat you up and to go 5% lighter this time...maybe she can give you some homework to do while you are away.
Your next week sounds good for the bike. Remember, evening "spin the legs out" sessions are also okay...just suit up and spin while you watch some Netflix.
I know you aren't happy with the CTL of 76, but you are in a great place. Better than last year and, I believe, in a more sustainable place than early 2017.
I think you should try 6 x 5' (5') at 265...Just make sure you are warmed up! #turnthescrews
Leslie said hi this AM, it was like she got one of those "Atta boy's" I mentioned in our meeting.
will write the 6x5(5) wko.
yes, starting this week, i will see leslie 1x per week and do 2 days a week on my own and likely do daily stretch, core, pushups & hip exercises.
She mixed it up this time. I also think the 1st time you do this you hurt more, 2nd time less, etc.
like your confidence and no, I am NOT getting greedy on the run. I may run every day, but keep it to just 2 miles on a skimo day. Kinda like a warm up.. CTL will creep up. I haven't had any consistency until this week. Rebuilding consistency will get the positive trend going!
got on trainer yesterday, after 1st 2 intervals, friggin Laptop was having a ANT+ issue.. was done at that point, then teenaged girl issues ensued... skied a little bit, then came home to try again... pro-tip.. do NOT try to do intervals after skiing even only 4 bump runs in the trees!
@scott dinhofer No worries bro, if you are tired, then you are doing work. If life dictates SKI THEN BIKE, I recommend that you go ahead and just do a steady ride for time. That work is still beneficial metabolically; there's always time for you to get uber specific when all the white stuff is gone!
Comments
@scott dinhofer - bummer on the cold but sounds like you forged a nice balance between training, fun and some recovery. Hopefully that "thing" is on the way out...if not, let me know!
The VO2 stuff is epic, and yes, that's the hardest 80 TSS you'll ever earn. I remember making fun of the shorter / harder workouts with lots of rest last year....and then I shut up after the first one and was thankful for the Z1 pedal time between reps and sets.
Here are my thoughts for your week:
Thu - Saturday bike session. Planned WKO or This is Stage 1 of Tour de zwift which is Jungle loop...bet you could find some folks riding your ABP effort and stick with them (you just have to make it over that first beastly hill). That would be a 90' effort. Short brick run of 2 miles.
Fri - Off if you are still sick/feeling it, otherwise some CORE and an easy 3 to 5 miles is fine.
Sat - SKIMO and PICS PLEASE
Sun - Endurance Day...I'd take an easy spin and easy run combo in the 2 to 2.5 hour range. Goal will be to recover a bit from SAT and set you up for a strong week ahead. You could do more but I don't think it's worth it.
Not sold on the R2R2R unless this is your only shot...we got biking to do brobeans!
~ Patrick
PS Tucker is a beast!!! What inspiration! He's all "Um Daddy, U OK?!?"
Hear you on the R2R2R - I am sure I'll do it some day and frankly, it's not very high on my list.
just signed up for "the Overland," a 50 mile epic gravel race in VT, late August. Thing sold out 500 spots in 12 minutes! I am thinking about something like Dirty Kanza in 2020.
btw, have to get a better pic of Tucker, no joke, I want his body comp! Friggin pooch is lean!
did the T de Z last night. read my mini report on it as a comparison to intervals in the zwift vs interval thread
definitly learned how to race. it is clear being a guy who is at the top of Cs and bottom of the Bs (did it at 3.2W/Kg)
also, can you reconstruct the peak power comparison chart on my TP? I went to look at it and it wasn't working, tried to adjust, didnt' work, deleted and tried to reset it up and it still failed.. thinking it may be a bug with TP..
@scott dinhofer -
Saw the report...there are pluses and minuses to both approaches, I think it's a function of what your goals are, where you are right now in terms of fitness, and what you LIKE to do (personality). Right now I say the intervals are sufficient except for the odd (1x every 1 or 2 weeks) harder effort of a race.
Really want to save the racing for later, a bit more post OS!
Your peak power looks good to me in TP.com... And I love the 20' power is already better than last years peak...onwards!!
~ Coach P
@scott dinhofer -
Great call yesterday...I like the theme of "Line In The Sand" for this time of year. Here are the short term goals for us through the last four weeks of the OS.
New Years Resolutions To Work In:
Your quad...just wondering If it's your VMO? See image / link here and let me know!
PS New Skimo Gear for racing???!! Let's see some pictures.
here;s a couple of pics showing the place that i have issues. It isn't Knee pain as described in the VMO article, it's actual muscle weakness. I feel cramping in that area first (when I cramp). I try to show it with the two pics below, it is likely either the VM or the Vastus Lateralis
Ski porn??? I REALLY don't think you want to see gear!
note went to dinner last night with Ally, last chance to see her b4 she goes back to School, had to do that instead of working out. Did one 20' FTP interval this AM at 246 (tested FTP # a few weeks ago) going for scheduled weds long run, we'll see if I can push as per OS plan.. or not.. minimum i will get the mileage and 1:30 on my feet in
Just get the mileage and no worries. Yes to this keyboard, I may be a triathlete bad I love Gear all types of gear.
I am laughing so hard — did you not send me back the images of the same picture that I sent you images? I think it’s the same area.
yeah, I guess same area ... so here's an update.. the morning after i did those hip exercises, which I do 1-3x a week, i woke up with a major pain in a diff muscle... hard to walk (seriously) and my left hip hurting bad... exactly what I had on the right side after IMKY 2017. so... I've had a shitty run week. 4Mi Weds, 2 mi Thrs, Sami & Drove up late Thurs night to play hookie and ski on Friday. Saturday did a solid 2 hr bike with 2x20 sweet spot and then went out and ran 7 1/2 miles at 8:04... hip did not hurt during run, but hurt after. Today I did the Cruise and crush, just tried to run at 3:45 PM, but legs felt to fatigued...
Plan forward - swim in an hour or so on vasa, 1200ish M
run every day this week if let feels ok, aim is to get 20 miles in 4 days. If I can, given day off today, may try to do 7+ each day and get to 30 before leaving. fly to CO friday, Ski FR/Sa/Su/Mo - planning on a huge Day on Saturday, going to try for the elusive 40k feet in elevation, which is a VERY long day at Vail. Steph Stevens and I will doing that. Will try to run Sat & Sun morning.
will play hip/ muscle issue day to day. I know what I went through 2 years ago and what it is and isn't, have to continue building hamstring & glute strength. Which is odd because I've done that this year.
Assuming that I am ok per doc, thinking about post-vail training? should i continue OS as written with the breaks I've had? Repeat the last 4 weeks of OS? something else to keep intensity up? I think I will be ok to run 30-35 mpw, but I think a big key is reducing long runs, reintroducing 7 day a week running, and getting a bunch of 4 mile days in to drive down the longer days needed. Frequency vs longer runs will solve this problem.
Bike - need to continue to push that 260/255 FTP effort and build wattage. My goal is to get to LP at 4.4 W/KG which is 275/280 outdoor watts at 138lbs. My lifetime high was 267, so I am confident we can get there.
Swim - going to get swimfit from now through end of Feb. March i will be going to swimlabs and getting coaching on developing a stronger hi elbow catch. BTW, can i get the video that you posted of Vasa? it showed me exactly what good Hi EC form looks like on Vasa. Going to be using video alot to work on that, swim labs does that in an endless pool.
Diet - hoff's winter challenge commenced, 146 by 3/1... vail is going to make that tough!
Btw, picked up my new skimo shit when i was at the house on Thursday night. HOLY SHIT this stuff is light.. think about it this way, my alpine touring boots that i used for the 1st race, are half the weight of my regular ski boots and these are half the weight of those. I could spend another $800 to get THE lightest boots, but those woould only be 100 grams more than current, new skis are THE lightest skimo ski/binding combo.
I won’t believe the ski stuff until I see it! :-)
Sorry to hear about the hip. The body is a mysterious thing! I agree, don’t worry about the long run right now, it is all about the frequency. Here is a great pre-run warm up for your hips if you aren’t already doing one:
I am very please with the bike right now, so don’t worry about it in the short term. Those numbers will come around on their own.
As for Vail, I just want you to be trashed at the end of every day. I don’t think that will require running, so do your best on the slopes!
yup, you showed me 7 way hips after IMKY 2017.
Did the 2 OS bikes this week and 2 runs (M/W) of 7.6 + 8.4 miles.
saw Hip ortho today. Turns out he lives right by me and runs on same path as me. So good news is, he's a runner! Given that my pain has receded tremendously, he thinks even though I do have some ongoing hip pain that it was likely my hip flexors tightening up. Not sure if I am convinced. He has no problem with 30ish miles a week, but much prefers the idea of lower volume individual runs. So, i will stay off the long runs and focus on the streak again with an average of 5+ per day. Long runs of 8, shorter runs as well, total volume to be 32ish per week.
leaving for CO tomorrow. will focus on epic long days of hard skiing, will make an attempt on the bike tuesday night when back, and finish out last week of NOS strong... should we have a call during testing week to discuss what's next for me?
Yes, let’s schedule a call for Thursday or Friday to get you back on track it to see how your body handles all that skiing. We can’t rule out your hip flexors unless you’ve been stretching them pretty religiously. It only takes a few seconds but makes a big difference, best done after a bike workout when you are already all warmed up.
Shoot me some times via text, Altitude Boy
already scheduled with you. Thursday at 10:30am
got in 2 1/2 days of skiing. Skied pretty hard for at least two of those. Girls bagged out early on Monday, dad wanted to hike the top ridge of keystone, next year no kids, and I am bringing my skins to hike up there! Aside from obvious soreness, legs feel good and more importantly, hip & hammy feels good!
thoughts I have - PMC is flat for the last 4 weeks. I really did ok the holiday week and week after running/ cold nursing, seems like bike suffered.
Assuming I jump back in with a 30-32 mpw run - that's probably about 350TSS, start vasa 1200-1500 meters 2 pw - 45-50 TSS; need to get 300-360 TSSpw from Bike.
probably get some skimo in there as well.
Separate question - any thoughts on how a trip like this might interfere with training? It would be pretty hard work every day at altitude. It would likely interfere with the NYGF... reminder, the PRIMARY objective is more important
@Coach Patrick - per yesterday's chat - goal for next two weeks is 600-675 TSS pw with 30-25mpw Run, 3x swim @ 1200M, 3-4x bike.
Follow OS plan and repeat last 4 weeks - QUESTION - seek 9 is last VO2 week;wk 10 is Testing week, wk 11/12/13 are FTP/Blastoffs weeks.
Should I do weeks 9/11/12/13 or do 11/12/13?
Yes to the outcomes from yesterday's chat:
Re the weeks, I vote 11/12/13...or perhaps 11-lite/11-actual/12/13....let's see how the reintegration feels!
Remember top priority is the run consistency and locking that "habit" back in again!
~ Coach P
a lil late on bike this week, Sami came home early and do to a rebuild of basement I now have trainer out of Bedroom, but in living area outside her lower level BR...
did 3x10 this am as my hack of OS week 11 "light" - http://tpks.ws/BNS2TUVR2E6OOQFXD4BOY5YB5A
so, let's Swag my FTP and how you want me doing WKOs... I last tested a few weeks ago at 246 (2x20(2) test)
First Interval was 1' at 240-246, 5' at 260-265, 4' at 252. Next set was pretty similar but slightly weaker. 3rd set I tried to do the 260 for 2 1/2 mins and blew up, dialed it down to 225/230 for a couple of minutes and ramped up every minute back to 260...
I am trying to go to VT this weekend, so will do the blastoffs Thursday evening so I have 18 hours of recovery (and 2 runs) between the bikes. (Ran Treddy 4mi last night & 3mi this AM, just did another 3 mi on way home, now getting on bike... and looking for your answer
Friday AM will try to do 3(or 4)x25(5) APB, run & skimo over the weekend. did one short swim this week, will have another in tonight and likely a Sunday night cruise and crush of my own.
for next week's 2x20, I am thinking that the accumulated fatigue and length of interval says to start out at 247 and ramp up to 255/160 at 15' in 1st interval and see how that goes. then do the same in 2nd interval, if not earlier.
thoughts? and thoughts on FTP #? thinking that 246ish# is pretty accurate, maybe just push to 250 instead?
Note TSS on my Zwift reads higher than on TP
also note that left hammy is hurting a bit from run.. doing stretching, foam rolling and strenghtening..
here's the blastoffs - http://tpks.ws/DDDJL7C2NR2JPTLTKU4ATL2ABM FTP set at 250, all three were tough, 3 was really tough!
to answer question.. only time I noticed the Hammy was during the middle of the Z3 interval at end, did not bother me during the blastoffs. My HR maxing out at 169 in interval 3 SUCKED ARSE.
here's what I think is going on.. I believe I likely did some kind of nerve damage when I herniated my disc three years ago. This is most affected area is that area inside of left quad just back from the knee joint. Assuming that is the case, and while it does manifest on the bike (when I do long rides too early in season, it's the first place I get cramping) it's clear that other muscles have to be taking over and providing support. On the run this is bad and likely what contributed to my hip pain.
Going to consult with my chiro who is a great physiologist and then go see a neurologist. I think the right thing to do meantime is likely, lots of self care, stretching, strengthening and likely hold off on running speedwork..
btw, this AM weight, 151.8. my 2 lowest weights were 152 in 2013 when I sherpa'd Teri in Kona & 147 at IMLP '17. Going to be 147 or under by 3/1, Jill and I are doing a no carb for 2 weeks challenge.
@scott dinhofer -
Ok, thanks for the bump...and great work on both sets. The fitness is there...the issue is getting back to wrk has too high of an aerobic cost for you. In English? You ain't recovering well enough between the bouts of work. Here's what the FTP looks like (the Blast offs are totally more noticeable)...
So here's what we are going to do for next week:
Re the hammy, I agree with your diagnosis and that reducing speed work right now (in favor of durability / frequency is key). Sidebar, I am curious To know what percentage of your running each week is on the treadmill? That can be a hamstring killer As you don't really fully extend the leg to toe off...
Are you doing any glute activations? Sometimes the hammy takes over when the glute isn’t firing. You need to push thru the big toe to activate the glute med...even bridging for 5 x 30’ can Be enough to make It start to fire first. Ideally you do These barefoot and push big toe down can help).
Macro wise you are on your way back...the body comp is a reflection of your total early season commitment that can "put up" with a trip to CO and work/life issues. We want to keep that system rolling. No one single workout is THAT important that it should ruin the system you have built! 👍
Looking forward to seeing what your weekend WKO data looks like!
~ Coach P
all makes sense. sorta... Is FTP in your mind where the red bars are roughly? also, you do realize that wko pic above is the 3x10s and not the blast offs, right?
Rest was cut short by need to push tuesday night workout to Wednesday AM because Sami came home early Weds! better future planning coming!
did 3x10 last week, do 4x10 this coming week? or repeat 3x10? Grow the rest interval in the wko, no prob..
when do I move to 4x10?
" More time at the higher power more Than I want "any time" at 20 minutes." - so you want me to keep pushing the #s up starting at 260is (i had the trainer set at 265, was averaging 262 for that section) even if it means a 3rd or 4th interval looking like the 3rd one in Wednesday's wko?
interesting analysis of TM.. this only flared up when arctic blast forced me on the TM, I've been doing almost all of my runs outside. I know the right layers and gloves for every 10 degrees and a beard helps! also have that sick high powered headlamp and a great bikepath (if you aren't crashing your bike on it)
weekend workouts are only running & skimo.. hopefully a sunday night bike and trying to do some APB sets this AM... i get a good 15 day cycle of workouts starting monday with 2 weeks and not leaving to VT for break until sunday of prez weekend. have to figure out getting bike up there for that. Might just box and ship it.. and send back that way..
Activations, familiar with the concept. Going to speak to my trainer buddy as he'll have some things I can do on floor with tennis ball or something to do that as well.
btw, I've become a wiz at writing wkos and adjusting them, secret - you can drag any wko into zwofactory and then edit it, save it as a new one, ezpeazy, get me the wkos for all early next year and I'll crank em out on the desktop with two screens. Also got the email going to the Zwift guy last night, hoping to get on phone with him today or Monday to push the jerzey thing. When i saw the Splunk/CA guys get one it hit me... Any luck trying to figure out a partnership with WBR? or did that die? those people are SOOO plugged into SRAM, ZIPP & Zwift. I raise so little for them, but they love how I use it as a tool for my annual compensation survey and get them exposure..
UPDATED - just ran 4MI on TM and Hammy less bothersome..
FYI, just tried to do an APB ride.. no way.. 2 days in a row of FTP work.. not happening.
will tyr to get in a 3-4mile run in VT tonight, or early afternoon before leaving
yo, @Coach Patrick can you answer the Qs 2 posts above on FTP? how long of a rest interval? the other Qs and of course comment on the rest.. I decided to give hips a rest, did 2 days of skimo (new race gear changes the dynamic, was actually running on skis... ) only 550 TSS last week, but hitting it hard for the next 15 days before feb vacation. bringing bike to VT to get in bike sessions in VT.
today's ride - 3x10(5) - http://tpks.ws/KO4KP3PNESLUPSPWUK7T6SYLXM
INT1 - FTP set at 250 for 5:30, then 260 for 4:30
INT 2 250 for 5' & 265 for 5'
INT 3 250 for 7:30 & 265 for 2:30
@scott dinhofer Sorry for the delay was on Le Mountain this weekend in Mt Snow...some great conditions even though it was a bit windy.
Re FTP, yes I know that was the 3x10s...the Blast Offs showed WORSE/LESS recovery because of the effort. What we are Trying to Do is maximize FTP time. As you get fitter, your HR will recover faster. Until you hit that point, pushing again without a lower HR (aka Happy Place HR) means you'll be pushing less watts.
So 3 x 10 right now, and the rest as needed. We don't need 4 x 10 on the same trajectory, it's about the quality not the progression. You did better on the 3x10s this weekend with 50% rest (5') as efforts 1/2/3 were consistent. I think we are on to something.
That said, glad you rested. You need to listen to your body and I like the compromise of Doing a different activity and getting the time in. That consistency matters during this re-entry. And the 15-day window is perfect for focus...you got this!!!
Mt Snow??!! Good on you, spent more time there than anywhere else and have to be honest, there are more challenging trails that I've not really found at Okemo.. that said, I am hoping to spend a bunch of time going backcountry. I got hooked up with a dude who just moved back to VT , last year he broke the record for most uphill skiing in a year... 2.5million' average of 5000' a day for a year... This guy is going to guide me a few times it looks like! Great video if interested - about 20 mins - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKidiVrT_Uk&vl=en
anyways.. bad week last week. the longer bikes are killing me and I didn't even get the run mileage in. Good news is the hip seems to be not as aggravated, part of why I didn't run yesterday. Started doing some strength, flexibility training with a trainer (Leslie Schneider works at my gym, so she gets the nod for understanding my goals!) Had our first session today and I am pumped.. she's really focused on the right things and I will be doing 2 more full sessions a week on my own using what she's doing. we are focused on legs & core.
started off today with a 2 mile run. WIll likely do 2 more tonight after a Vasa, goal is to run every day this week, with the "off day" being 1.25 miles.
Going to hit the bike tomorrow afternoon and do the 3x10s, continue pushing minutes 2-6 as 265 vs 250 setting on effort. will extend in third interval if i am hitting #s, last week was only 2.5 mins in the last interval at higher effort.
Good, Bad, I don't care as long as you are doing something. So I am happy with 2 miles am, 2 miles pm, etc...we don't _need_ long runs at this point. The bike is the focus point (for quality and optional volume), the skimo is a great cross training tool. Run? Just frequency...running is a skill...right now we need the strength / mobility to make sure that you are running "healthy."
Onwards!
Ps 👋 To leslie for me!!!
Middle of week two of three week finish of OS did the blastoffs today http://tpks.ws/ZX2JS3ILO5N4GPWQVHSOLW2XSM
running daily, trying to manage a 23-28 mile week. Heading to VT on Sunday, so I should be able to get in all wkos except possibly a CnC on Sunday. Have to go to Rochester NY 1st for a LAX clinic, then drive to VT, longggg day.
next week, i WILL have bike with me in VT with trainer that lives there, planning on doing the Tue/Thrs wko and hopefully at least the 1st 90' of Saturday. at least 2-3 skimo sessions and a daily run.
Seeing Leslie Schneider tomorrow, legs still hurting from the work she did Monday.. but I won't see her again until 10 days from tomorrow.
weight - 149.8 strong progress.
left hammy still a bit eh..
just posting in case you have any suggestions. Assuming i will do 3x10 on Tuesday with a push of 5-6' at higher (265) vs FTP tested (246) setting
@scott dinhofer You are in a good place right now..we can't get greedy with the run just yet. So keep it aerobic and rolling...I would not run and skimo in the same day...pick one and get it done.
Tell leslie she beat you up and to go 5% lighter this time...maybe she can give you some homework to do while you are away.
Your next week sounds good for the bike. Remember, evening "spin the legs out" sessions are also okay...just suit up and spin while you watch some Netflix.
I know you aren't happy with the CTL of 76, but you are in a great place. Better than last year and, I believe, in a more sustainable place than early 2017.
I think you should try 6 x 5' (5') at 265...Just make sure you are warmed up! #turnthescrews
~ Coach P
Leslie said hi this AM, it was like she got one of those "Atta boy's" I mentioned in our meeting.
will write the 6x5(5) wko.
yes, starting this week, i will see leslie 1x per week and do 2 days a week on my own and likely do daily stretch, core, pushups & hip exercises.
She mixed it up this time. I also think the 1st time you do this you hurt more, 2nd time less, etc.
like your confidence and no, I am NOT getting greedy on the run. I may run every day, but keep it to just 2 miles on a skimo day. Kinda like a warm up.. CTL will creep up. I haven't had any consistency until this week. Rebuilding consistency will get the positive trend going!
LOVE it...you are FOCUSED!!! 💪
~ Coach P
got on trainer yesterday, after 1st 2 intervals, friggin Laptop was having a ANT+ issue.. was done at that point, then teenaged girl issues ensued... skied a little bit, then came home to try again... pro-tip.. do NOT try to do intervals after skiing even only 4 bump runs in the trees!
@scott dinhofer No worries bro, if you are tired, then you are doing work. If life dictates SKI THEN BIKE, I recommend that you go ahead and just do a steady ride for time. That work is still beneficial metabolically; there's always time for you to get uber specific when all the white stuff is gone!