Scott Dinhofer's Official Coach Thread
from the training plans "Coach Notes: IF you have the resources and time (ie, can get outside, not a strain on personal or family life) and / or are moving from the OS plan into the HIM or IM plan, it would be a good idea turn this ride into 2-3hrs by adding Z2-3 time as you feel. But DO NOT DO THIS if you are on a trainer unless specifically told to do so by the coaches!!!"
I am planning on flipping the switch to HIM at the end of March per Rich's season plan. I am not interested in riding outside right now because of a combination of weather and more importantly, horrible road conditions, debris, salt, etc on sides of roads. Thinking to move towards 1:45-2 hours and building from there over the next few weeks.
thoughts?
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Note instead of building 10 to 15' extra per week, just commit to 2 hours but make the last 30' of the first week be EASY Zone 1. Then Week 2 only has 25' easy....Week 3 has 20' of easy....the "hardest" part this time of season is breaking the TIME barrier!
I am traveling during weeks 6 & 7 prior to Ironman Mont Tremblant.
I am departing on Thursday June 26 and returning on Thursday July 10. I will be traveling to Tanzania to climb Mt Kilimanjaro with my daughter. Per query with Al T, he thought the injection of altitude would set me up well for a BBW beginning July 11. Note that I will be missing weeks 6 & 7 prior to IM with exception of potential workouts described below.
I have a number of days in this time available to build extra run miles. I will be not hiking and able to do a long run on Saturday June 28.
I should be able to do a run of moderate mileage on Sunday July 6. I then fly to Istanbul, where I will spend a few days. I will be researching potential pools to get in a couple of swims in Istanbul, but I do feel confident I can get a few good runs in there on July 7, 8, 9 & 10.
Was hoping to get some guidance to help me out with a schedule adjustment for the week prior to departing on June 26 and for running & possible swimming in the away time as well as the layout and structure of a BBW Ideally from July 11. My goal would be to do 2-2.5 hours per day on the weekdays plus larger mileage on either the first weekend or 2nd weekend of the week, so looking for guidance on how to structure that week inclusive of swims & runs.
Note that Sunday July 13 will be 5 weeks prior to IMMT.
While you're on the road, I'd like you to get in two quality long runs in rather than 90 minute range given your travel constraints. Any other day can either be a swim or a 45 minute run with some strides at the end.
When you are back, tuna half hours a day of cycling is just fine. I wouldn't want you to do every day though.
I would suggest Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. The new long run on Thursday, followed by a swim on Friday for longer variety. Then extended weekend rides both of them.
I am considering doing a 50on50 for my 5oth B'day which is March 1. The 50 would be 50k.
I'd like to get your thoughts on how you integrated that into your OS?
I have a big year planned next year for my 50th (AmZof, Wilmington 100MTB (70 mile qualifier for Leadville) IMLP, IMChoo, SOS Tri & possibly season finale of NYC Mary. and of course possible Leadville 100MTB a 6 weeks before Choo. thinking that the 50 on 50 might get my fitness to a higher level before the season starts? any threads from your prep on your 40 on 40 that I can read up on? Any specific guidelines/ thoughts you would give? also interesting that mine is basically a week earlier than yours (should we share a bday cake?!)
Crib notes:
* no fast runs..all slow and easy.
* started off short / frequent and built to 3x2 hour runs in a week (15 miles each) with shorter runs in there too.
* last 8 weeks had me doing sat/Sun long runs back to back building to a max of 20/15 at 21 days to go then tapered.
Once you are thru the run, you can get back on bike easy for 2 weeks then more seriously as you push to AmZo. If you are worked about the bike you could keep one ride of 60-90 mins in there but nothing flashy until the long running is done!
If that is the case, I am not sure? i do need to get faster, or are we relying on volume to help with that.
having done this already, how would you change it to fit into a tri building year?
here is where I am at:
Fitness is great, but not best it can be. Weight is clearly an issue. yes, I have lost a bunch, but looking at pics of peeps at Kona, it is clear what I have to do in that department. Weight alone will get my w/KG to around 4, so that to me is a good indication that I need to be that lean as it will pay dividends on the run.
the idea of the sorta epic events is that they cross train and build off of each other. The two long MTB events will be big bike training days. Recovery is much faster than if I did a Marathon in the middle of my training. Also, most MTBers will tell you about all the road biking they do to keep their fitness up ;-)
I am also looking at how fit you got this year and am curious how your 40on40 set up your year? Thus my idea of a similarly timed event. Were there any threads discussing this that you recall?
Volume can make you faster if you do enough of it, and you don't put yourself in jeopardy. The type of running we are talking about is low intensity and great for firing up the metabolism and building durability...to which you can add speed to later.
My biggest fear is that someone like you will take the volume approach for running, and merge it with the intensity approach for cycling to try and build fast and far simultaneously. That something might work.
As I reflect on my year, I did some run far work early...and while I didn't necessarily run any faster, it wasn't about speed at the time. When I finally got around to doing the intensity and the focus. Before my races, I saw some really positive gains from doing the intervals that I had neglected for a while.
Given how big and long your year is looking on paper, I recommend this approach as there's no way you'll be able to sustain the intensity across so many events and a traditionally belts and durance mission season. You simply can't afford to underestimate the cost of that 50 miler. Am I making any sense?
sorta:
you said your fear is merging fast and far, but then say "that something might work." sentence seems like something is missing, do you think that would work? it seems like the answer is no, but you say yes?
last paragraph something didn't come out right? are you using voice to text? looks like a typo of some type? Here's the part that makes no sense: "cross so many events and a traditionally belts and durance mission season."
also it is a 50k, still a big deal, but NOT a 50 miler:-)
primary goal, become faster IM at LP & Chattanooga.
I am looking at the 2 bike events as B events and big training day opportunities.
1- Scott, Great idea. This will help you lean up, build a strong base to launch your epic season on
2- Scott, it will make you leaner and have more durability, but you will lose the important chance to raise your Vdot & FTP in the OS as you need to if you ever really want to think about Kona.. (with appropriate weight loss and a course like Choo that rewards the slower swimmer, i might be able to think this way for the first time)
3- Scott, you can do it and still have a great season if we do X
4 - something else I am not thinking of..
thanks P!
Once you're done with Arizona, you'll want to take two solid weeks off. This will be hard mentally, but it's mandatory. Then you will want to start a basic week that will allow you to start training with a run focus. The week should include One ABP session on the bike (trainer), one easy spin on the bike, and the rest should be running. Two of the runs during the week should be in the 75 minutes or greater category.
Why don't you map out that week during your downtime, and you and I can hack this out.
btw, after THIS long season, between doing AZ & Thanksgiving a week later, taking down time won't be a problem!
"done right it will come together in the end."
music to my ears!
I'll take a stab at a weekly plan.
1-may bail on the Wilmington / whiteface 100 MTB & AMZof to do the TOC. To do TOC & WW100 will take major negotiation with ex-wife
2-Here is the OS I would do if we do the 50on50 run plan
2 days of swimming 4000-5000 yds. I need this, the only way I am ever getting from a 1:25 swim to a 1:15 or better is more pool time Mon & fri
2 days of long runs starting at 1:30 per and building, thinking Weds & Saturday
2 days of bike maintenance - 2 Z3 30 minute intervals with warm up.
question, how destroyed will my FTP from this?
how long will it take to come back?
if i can get weight down to 145ish, on current FTP(247) that is around 3.8 w/KG, so I think i need to get weight down to 142-145, which would be looking like you! AND get my FTP up to about 260.
Am i sacrificing overall fitness by doing the run focus? Or will there be some crossover that makes building the FTP back a somewhat easier process.
So here is what a week would look like:
Monday - Run 2x1mile intervals with warm up/ cool down (45mins)
Tuesday - swim & 30-45 min run
Wednesday - long run
Thursday - Bike
Friday - Run
Saturday - Long Run
Sunday - swim & Bike
thoughts on all of this?
leaving it up to you to build out the wko structures after we get the week set up.
I think you kind of have this perspective because you are already talking about how the run focus and weight loss will be complementary to your overall fitness goals.
I think you need to do the math on what your tentative week will look like. If you're going to swim 90 minutes and run 45 minutes on the same day with other logistical time you're probably talking to an a half hours I'm just one day. I am guessing that you did not spend that much time during the season on your training, much less now in the winter.
In other words, I think the basic week you have outlined would look great if it was the eighth or 12 in the plan that you are creating. Not the first.
Over a decade of coaching experience has taught me that people consistently overestimate the work they can do and underestimated how long it will take to do that work. The intersection of these two points is the friction that causes breakdown comment on this and other problems. Please give me another iteration of that week, as well as a link to a spreadsheet or you have laid out your races across a year in a vertical fashion like our TSR.
I was trying to get a week that "fits" together , figuring we could expand that out week by week "borrowing" wkos from the various plans. also, placed 90 minutes given i am at that fitness level now. If you think we should dial it down for starters, i am more than good with that.
I am also going by the days that i know I have the time. EG: kids always wake up with me on Thursdays, so it is tough doing an early workout, but I can do an hour on the bike in my room. Every other weekend I have them, no issues, 1 swim on weekends. I have the kids every other Monday morning, hence a 1 WKo day. Tuesday, weds Sat & Sun are my best bets for longer WKo days.
let me know on the sheet format and I will crank it out..
thanks!
TSR?
I am thinking I can create a spreadsheet (google doc) and list the days across so each week is a row? we can get it going and then fill in volume goals from there. You can also ID what days are what types of runs, EG: interval day, long run day(s) etc...
Scott - So sorry for the delay! I needed to write this down as it was killing me!
Draft XLSX File: https://app.box.com/s/gkz10ehsyyn7y89pfeof
Screencast: http://www.screencast.com/t/0U2NkaZ8iW6M
sheet looks GREAT, thanks!
I will have to adjust for a few things, but sholdnt be an issue.
1-recovery from IMAZ
2-I am having rotator cuff surgery on 12/5. will have to take running as EZ runs possible 8-10 miler the weekend after. Docs says his only issue is if were to torque it unexpectedly. I run on a slightly graded bike path. will stick to daylight runs only and play it by ear. Of course I am presuming it won't be horrible the first week, bwwwwhhhhaaaa
3-I have an extra week built in as you ended it a week early. I will tweak and upload for your review.
will you be passing westchester county anytime soon? Love to buy you lunch or dinner. If not, i may twist your arm and come up to your town for a bite in late january.
P - the season plan fell apart with the rotator cuff surgery. I started a typical OS build on the bike, but have had some issues, culminating with a 2nd failed FTP test today. I am pasting my post from JOS bke forum today below, would appreciate your opinion either here or better, in the JOS forum where others can learn from your response.
thanks
Have been battling either a virus, or bacterial chest infection all week.
Did a normal workout load (lighter running week of the 26th, leading up to a presumed FTP test on tues 2/3, delayed it to 2/4
Didn’t save garmin files, but have the trainer road files.
Performed current 7 week cycle at 232 after peaking last year at 247
Trainer road was set at goal FTP of 240
Thinking that I need to be lighter on VO2 as I haven’t done a lot of VO2 sets in the last 7 weeks.
Remember I am battling the post rotator Cuff Surgery healing and have been battling fatigue every week which Al T Diagnosed as surgical recovery fatigue. I am doing lots of PT (3x a day) that stresses my shoulder.
So here are the files
Weds - http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/...es/1628874
Today - http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/...es/1648056
Clearly failed
On Feb 4, I tried to ride the VO2 as prescribed, today I went out trying to ride 278 (1.2IF on 232) followed by a 238-240 FTP interval which in hindsight, I realize I wasn’t accounting for riding at about 105% of intended FTP, so I was barely holding my own on essentially my 232 by riding the #s I was…
So, where to go from here? I have been fatigued all week, probably a result of either viral or bacterial infection, I did do a round of Zithromax.. this morning, I woke up at 5:30, more tired than usual and went back to sleep for a few hours, before doing this test.
Thinking I am clearly tired. Do I run? Do I do any interval sets, do I just rest more? When I return, what workout should I return to? Clearly I will have drifted downward with a week off?
Any and all thoughts appreciated
as an after thought, since testing is the best way to determine FTP, i have no doubt that if i started the next 7 week cycle at 238-240, i'd be at about the right number Swagging it, but trying to do this right.
(1) what your FTP is based off of your last 7 wks and your experience.
(2) that you can't hit those numbers right now b/c of fatigue.
That leads me to....
(3) you need to rest. Whatever the cause, not being able to hit your numbers isn't a sign of failure -- it's a sign of ending a break.
My thought is that you need to stand down for a few days...I'd go for time, not intensity, through the start of next week. Adjust, adapt, evolve.
Running has been suffering because of shoulder injury, fwiw, the doc admitted to misrepresenting the recovery process to me in order to get me to commit to the surgery. I think once i solve this fatigue issue, i am good to start running & biking. I did see internist today for a full blood workup, so should have some answers today and more early next week.
In Colorado, AL T has reported that a week of skiing hard has no downward effect on FTP. That said, I can't ski hard due to shoulder.. soo.. focusing on having a few runs when i am out there and skiing and eating healthy...
when I hit the reset button on the weekend of Feb 21, I am thinking start in OS week 1 or 2 and do the build cycle from there.
congrats on TX!
here is an update on me.
I have been lurking a bit in the micro forum, which I never have done before so I am going to utilize this more.
first off, I am in a much better place than the angry me we experienced just before the coffee we had in LP in '12 when i thought I had to quit the game. On top of everything, I am finishing up an Executive Coach training program. It would be great if we can grab another coffee in LP this year and catch up.
where I am:
the planned epic running winter was done in by my Rotator Cuff Surgery.
I did best to hold onto 2 rides and a run or 2 every week during the OS, but fell of the wagon in February (went from 20+ WKOs in Jan to 7 in Feb & 9 in March, back to 20+ in April) this of course resulted in huge weight gain, I think I hit 170 one day
I did TOC, rode hard, was off the back off the A group, and ahead of the Bs. Definitely pushed hard every day and got in good fitness, also managed 3x short runs that week. This week back has been a killer, work, kids, coach training program coming to an end, paper related to that and 2 nights of a 2.5 hr event at my twins middle school, killed all. so I have one run in for this week.
plan for this holiday weekend, run this afternoon, probably a good tempo run.
tomorrow(sat), taking advantage of the TOC fitness gains and going to use the JW hack for lots of long rides leading up to an IM and will be dragging Ken Adler out at 6AM for a 5.5-6 hr jaunt. Planned route is 105ish miles w 8000 ft climbing. I will be ending on other side of Hudson by my GFs house and meeting her at a flat running trail and will do a 1 hr brick after
Sunday: planning on a 1.5 hr ABP ride in the AM, a run, a swim and an easy ride in the afternoon. Afternoon ride will either be MTB or taking the GF on her new roadie that I bought from Paul Hough
Monday: playing it by ear, but will have an EZish bike, probably do some MTB with a neighbor & some EZ roadie with the GF, focus will be on getting in a 4000 yd swim & run
rolling back into IM plan for Tuesday onwards.
will keep future posts shorter...
* proper allocation of effort over the course (really getting good at flattening the course) and;
* solid nutrition, which you can practice all the time (don't let the Withrow thing take over your workout nutrition, which needs to be dialed in and practiced ASAP!).
Please keep me posted!
bike volume this weekend was good...
Saturday
did 94 miles w 8000ish ft climbing on Saturday, rode 65 w Ken Adler
was trashed after this, felt like shizz, thinking it was cold and I wasn't hydrating enough.
Sunday
Ran 5.5 miles, did a lazy bike with the GF in the afternoon
Monday - swam 2400 yds, MTB in the afternoon
only major issue is that i have sever lower back pain (strain) from tri bike on Saturday.. gonna have to start working on this with Daily Planks...
next time you are in Tarrytown, ping me & Adler ahead of time, can meet you early am to show you around rockefeller and no loss of SAUs since it is your run time... :-)
was fully trained up for LP felt really good going in, achieved my 1 year ago #s from MT... then I awoke in LP with a herniated disc 3 days before race day...
aside from the pain, I have suffered some nerve damage in my left leg. EG, muscles aren't all firing, eeek!
At this point in time, my last full ride was a RR on July 11, followed by a taper ride (2.5 hrs) on July 18.
Here is where I am at: docs are saying I am good to swim(I am starting to turn into a swim rat), can't really run or bike... yet. Docs are saying possible short easy bikes starting next week, if things improve, they say training will ramp quickly. I am supposed to go to Shenandoah for a big training week, the week of August 24. The END of that week would leave me with 4 full weeks until race day. Assuming things improve by then and I can get some real training in 2-3RRs), do you think I will be ok with trying to complete Choo?
I recognize at this point, it is not going to be the race I hoped for.
I guess the Q is how quickly do we see fitness tail off after a race?
But seriously, you need solid reassurances that you aren't going to do any more damage to your back. That's no joke. No muscle function means that nerve is in trouble, and I don't think an Ironman is the cure.
So, in my mind:
1. Swim away, enjoy it.
2. Plan on a few short bikes next week, no aero time. Only give yourself 30' the first time and then get off and see how you feel in 24 hours. IF good, the next one can be 45'...but I wouldn't think about aero for a while.
3. If you are thinking about running it should only be on the elliptical first, and after the week of adding the bike back. We want total transparency on how you are handling it.
Please keep me posted and good luck!
a deep water run the other day, and resulting flare up, have safely reset my thinking properly to the heal first mentality.
Guess I am gonna be a swimmer for a bit.
Chiro is a cyclist and very conservative, so plan is to put bike on trainer today and do an EZ 30 minutes, see how it goes, etc...
Choo is 90% out, will make that call in 2 weeks, basically hoping for a miracle & I am smart enough to know miracles don't really happen...
Please keep me posted!