All, OK, I haven't had time to get really focused on all this but what exactly can't the latest firmware do? What improvements are they looking to, or need to, add to the Joule itself or PA? At the moment, until I plug the data into WKO I don't have much confidence in the in-ride data on the joule - certainly not enough to pace a race or RR with. Again, I haven't spent a great deal of time researching - PITA that I have too in some respects.
From what I have been seeing, there is one known issue with the Joule and as well, some are having trouble getting the Joule to recognize their FT.
The known issue is that the Joule will not update to the latest firmware version on new 64-bit PCs. It will update on the 32 bit machines. So if you have a new PC, find one with a 32 bit processor to load the latest. Saris is working on a fix for this.
When the Joule first shipped it assumed you had an FT of 250 and it couldn't be over ridden. It also calculated your FT for you. A later update fixed this for most and allows you to input your power data into PA and push it to the Joule. From what I've read, this seems to work for almost everyone. If you are still getting incorrect IF and TSS data, I'd call customer service and have them get involved.
As far as I know, all other data is reliable.
After the FT update, my Joule works like a charm and I'm thrilled to have it.
I spoke to Saris today and they had another call yesterday with someone having difficulty with distance being off. Mine appears 10% on the long end compared to the Garmin.
I reduced the circumference of my wheel size manually in the Joule. Anyone else having this issue?
@Tom - thanks for the tips - I had reloaded PA on my new laptop (64-bit) so that may be the issue. Tried erasing PA on my 32-bit PC & re-loading - it wouldn't load from Saris site so went the CD route but then couldn't update it to latest version! Could be my PC and the crappy AVG anti-virus I'm running - may not be establishing 'rules' for PA. Try again later.
@Vince: I have this issue as well. I haven't really examined how far off it is, but it's definitely off probably between 5-10%. I'll try testing it out with my GPS during today's FTP ride and report back.
If you do in fact find that your distance is off (mine is close to 10%) check it also against your avg speed. I have found that my avg speed is the same as my Garmin but distance is still off.
Please call Saris so they know that there are more and more of us with this issue. They might not be able to do something about it right away but at least they are getting an understanding . . . .
Interestingly, my ride into work this morning appeared to be pretty accurate with my GPS. I wonder if this has something to do with the speed sensor? I did notice the speed dropped out once or twice. Maybe it dropped out just enough to make the total distance look more accurate.
The distance I have been getting from my Joule seems pretty close. Is that a factor of what PM people are using? Would seem that if my PT spit out good distances to the LYC and the Garmin it should to the Joule also.
My only issue right now is that I can't seem to configure the Joule for my FTP [still thinks its 250] did I read right above that I have to find an older computer and try that? Seems kinda insane. My laptop is about a year old and I assume a whatever bit as mentioned. Weird. I guess I will try my work laptop.
I'm close to buying a Joule, but only if it is actually going to work okay! Have the lastest updtaes to PA/WKO+ 3.0 etc all worked or are people still having lots of problems?
I am currently having zero problems with mine and love it. I do not have wko 3.0 so not sure about that. I just export the file from power agent into wko plus.
I have no issues with the FTP number but still cannot resolve the distance problem. I am using a Cinqo not pt. Maybe that's a reason but I am using Saris' speed sensor. Weird. The cool thing for my RR is that once the watts area is highlighted I have a norm watts reading to ride to as a metric. Makes it easier to meter out the wattage even if distance is off. I will just ignore distance and TSS for vineman. IF, wattage and norm wattage are all good.
I have been using my Joule since purchasing it via the initial EN buy and have had zero problems. I also upgraded to WKO+ 3.0 and found no problems with that process. I have very happy with my Joule other than it does irritate me a bit when I am on my rides and am watching my IF numbers decline.
Vince, I am having the distance problem with my Joule too. At the IMMoo camp, my Joule (paired with the Quarq) read 8 miles longer than Gina's Joule on the same ride (hers is with a PT). I'm thinking it's probably the Saris speed sensor as that is what is capturing the data for distance. I will call Saris about this. Otherwise, since the FTP issue has been cleared up, I really LURVE my Joule.
Seems the issues are with non pt wheels when it comes to distance errors. Odd since I use Saris sensor. They will figure it out...just not by Sunday....Vineman.
That stinks that there is a distance issue. Wonder if you can work around it by fudging the wheel size or something. Just a guess but while it is ANT plus and should work with all PM's, wanna bet that 99.9% of all testing was done using PT hubs?
I also hate watching IF steadily decline as the ride goes long...can't really blame the Joule for that though
Just spoke to Saris. I will do a ride with a pt wheel next week along with my gamin to see if it's a chino issue. Almost seems like the Joule doesn't use the circumference that I enter to calculate distance but does for speed. I set the circumference to 1866mm to adjust for 10% and my speed was very slow compared to gamin but the joule still read long on the distance.
My Joule and PT hub with WKO+ is working great with no issues. FTP issue was fixed with the firmware upgrade. No distance issues. I love all the info available to you at a glance.
Rode the Vineman 70.3 with the Joule and the feedback was great especially the norm power. I had trouble with the first 20 miles of the ride getting power to my legs for some reason and showed norm wattage as 189 when my goal was 245. I finally started feeling better and brought the wattage up to 235 by rides end with VI of 1.03. I think the issue is with non-PT PMs.
Has anyone noticed a discrepancy between the numbers in PA and WKO+?
I started noticing that the NP numbers I was seeing on the screen at the end of the intervals was not what I was seeing in WKO+. They are always 1-3 points lower. Then upon further review there are a lot of discrepancies....NP, IF, TSS, etc. all vary to a small extent between PA and WKO+. Is anyone else noticing this, and is there anything that might fix it? Or is it possible that I'm just big dealin' the fook out of it and should just let it go.
I have slightly different numbers too but just ignore PA numbers. Official math is WKO, all others may use their formulas but are not verified or tested.
I assume that there are various assumptions built into the math models and each company may be different. Of course there may be errors too, but my differences are pretty small so I don't worry about it.
Hi - I'm planning on the Quarq/Joule combo and it seems like there have been lots of snags in the road with respect to joules... from what I've put together from reading this and other threads --
1) I'll need a separate speed sensor. Any suggestions? I've seen both Saris and Garmin mentioned.
2) I currently have a Garmin HR strap - it sounds like this will work
3) I can get a second joule mount from Saris
4) Have the distance issues been worked out?
5) I'm also planning to get a new personal computer... I remember at least a few of you had some issues with reading the data... what should I know/look for? I have a PC now but want a mac... but am reading this might not work... (something about WKO - which is my next question)
6) I admit I haven't watched the webinar or gotten the power kit - this may be covered in there... but what's WKO+? It seems like some sort of software I'll need to download to actually view my workouts, etc.. right? are there other options? Is this the best? How does training peaks fit in (I saw that somewhere too).
@ Becky - I too am a power newbie (going on 4 months now) with a Quarq/Joule - if I may
1) Any Ant+ sensor will work. Saris, Garmin, I have a Bontrager
2) Yes
3) Yes
4) My distances seem to be spot on - nothing's perfect but it seems to be as damn close as is possible
5) From what I've read about different computers, operating systems, and with the posts is that the consensus is to put Power Agent (joule software), GTC (garmin software), and WKO+ on a regular PC with standard 32-bit Windows. With that setup there isn't any issues. I think most people are keeping their old pc's for training stuff when they upgrade to 64-bit computers or change to Mac. Don't know what the future of this is.
6) WKO+ is the Training Peaks software. Have to have it. Here's a link - The power webinar is also a must have. You will learn everything you need to know to get started by watching the first 2 hours of the webinar.
thanks, Terry! all good to know... I was leaning towards a laptop.. in which case keeping my desktop PC might be fine (but it's so friggin old and slow... I wonder if it will do any good). glad to hear some of the other bugs were ironed out... lucky for me... I'll have you all to lean on when I get it and try to get it set up!
Becky- I am a MAC user, BUT became very frustrated with trying to run WKO on the Windows side of the MAC. Prior to Moo Camp I purchased an Asus netbook (~300) to run WKO on. The netbook is not my primary computer, but certainly has made it better to follow my training with WKO.
The Joule is user friendly, but you can e*pect a learning curve given that you are new to power. Lotsa help in the Haus though, so jump in!!
What is everyone's experience with battery life and the Joule? I'm building up a brevet bike and considering using Powertap and a Joule for power. I need at least 24 hours, if not more. How about memory limits?
@Bill - you are an animal. I am pretty sure that the Joule batter will last for 24 hours but as I would never even consider riding my bike that far I can't say for sure. Maybe post it over on ST and Rappstar will chime in. He is sponsored by them and it seems like if he does not know something he emails someone at saris and has the answer pretty quick.
Comments
Thanks Vince. Thats what I was thinking but just wanted to make sure that they would not change the equations used by the machine somehow.
At the moment, until I plug the data into WKO I don't have much confidence in the in-ride data on the joule - certainly not enough to pace a race or RR with.
Again, I haven't spent a great deal of time researching - PITA that I have too in some respects.
From what I have been seeing, there is one known issue with the Joule and as well, some are having trouble getting the Joule to recognize their FT.
The known issue is that the Joule will not update to the latest firmware version on new 64-bit PCs. It will update on the 32 bit machines. So if you have a new PC, find one with a 32 bit processor to load the latest. Saris is working on a fix for this.
When the Joule first shipped it assumed you had an FT of 250 and it couldn't be over ridden. It also calculated your FT for you. A later update fixed this for most and allows you to input your power data into PA and push it to the Joule. From what I've read, this seems to work for almost everyone. If you are still getting incorrect IF and TSS data, I'd call customer service and have them get involved.
As far as I know, all other data is reliable.
After the FT update, my Joule works like a charm and I'm thrilled to have it.
tom
I reduced the circumference of my wheel size manually in the Joule. Anyone else having this issue?
Vince
@Vince - yikes! another thing to test!
@Vince: I have this issue as well. I haven't really examined how far off it is, but it's definitely off probably between 5-10%. I'll try testing it out with my GPS during today's FTP ride and report back.
@Steve-
If you do in fact find that your distance is off (mine is close to 10%) check it also against your avg speed. I have found that my avg speed is the same as my Garmin but distance is still off.
Please call Saris so they know that there are more and more of us with this issue. They might not be able to do something about it right away but at least they are getting an understanding . . . .
Craig
More testing seems to be in order.
"Distance: 112.341 mi"
I'd say my Joule is pretty close!
tom
The distance I have been getting from my Joule seems pretty close. Is that a factor of what PM people are using? Would seem that if my PT spit out good distances to the LYC and the Garmin it should to the Joule also.
My only issue right now is that I can't seem to configure the Joule for my FTP [still thinks its 250] did I read right above that I have to find an older computer and try that? Seems kinda insane. My laptop is about a year old and I assume a whatever bit as mentioned. Weird. I guess I will try my work laptop.
I'm close to buying a Joule, but only if it is actually going to work okay! Have the lastest updtaes to PA/WKO+ 3.0 etc all worked or are people still having lots of problems?
I am currently having zero problems with mine and love it. I do not have wko 3.0 so not sure about that. I just export the file from power agent into wko plus.
I have no issues with the FTP number but still cannot resolve the distance problem. I am using a Cinqo not pt. Maybe that's a reason but I am using Saris' speed sensor. Weird. The cool thing for my RR is that once the watts area is highlighted I have a norm watts reading to ride to as a metric. Makes it easier to meter out the wattage even if distance is off. I will just ignore distance and TSS for vineman. IF, wattage and norm wattage are all good.
Vince
I am having the distance problem with my Joule too. At the IMMoo camp, my Joule (paired with the Quarq) read 8 miles longer than Gina's Joule on the same ride (hers is with a PT). I'm thinking it's probably the Saris speed sensor as that is what is capturing the data for distance. I will call Saris about this.
Otherwise, since the FTP issue has been cleared up, I really LURVE my Joule.
Thanks people, I'm now sold onthe idea....now where is that credit card?
Speed seems to be fairly accurate.
Vince
That stinks that there is a distance issue. Wonder if you can work around it by fudging the wheel size or something. Just a guess but while it is ANT plus and should work with all PM's, wanna bet that 99.9% of all testing was done using PT hubs?
I also hate watching IF steadily decline as the ride goes long...can't really blame the Joule for that though
Vince
Matt
Vince
Has anyone noticed a discrepancy between the numbers in PA and WKO+?
I started noticing that the NP numbers I was seeing on the screen at the end of the intervals was not what I was seeing in WKO+. They are always 1-3 points lower. Then upon further review there are a lot of discrepancies....NP, IF, TSS, etc. all vary to a small extent between PA and WKO+. Is anyone else noticing this, and is there anything that might fix it? Or is it possible that I'm just big dealin' the fook out of it and should just let it go.
I have slightly different numbers too but just ignore PA numbers. Official math is WKO, all others may use their formulas but are not verified or tested.
I assume that there are various assumptions built into the math models and each company may be different. Of course there may be errors too, but my differences are pretty small so I don't worry about it.
Hi - I'm planning on the Quarq/Joule combo and it seems like there have been lots of snags in the road with respect to joules... from what I've put together from reading this and other threads --
1) I'll need a separate speed sensor. Any suggestions? I've seen both Saris and Garmin mentioned.
2) I currently have a Garmin HR strap - it sounds like this will work
3) I can get a second joule mount from Saris
4) Have the distance issues been worked out?
5) I'm also planning to get a new personal computer... I remember at least a few of you had some issues with reading the data... what should I know/look for? I have a PC now but want a mac... but am reading this might not work... (something about WKO - which is my next question)
6) I admit I haven't watched the webinar or gotten the power kit - this may be covered in there... but what's WKO+? It seems like some sort of software I'll need to download to actually view my workouts, etc.. right? are there other options? Is this the best? How does training peaks fit in (I saw that somewhere too).
thanks!
@ Becky - I too am a power newbie (going on 4 months now) with a Quarq/Joule - if I may
1) Any Ant+ sensor will work. Saris, Garmin, I have a Bontrager
2) Yes
3) Yes
4) My distances seem to be spot on - nothing's perfect but it seems to be as damn close as is possible
5) From what I've read about different computers, operating systems, and with the posts is that the consensus is to put Power Agent (joule software), GTC (garmin software), and WKO+ on a regular PC with standard 32-bit Windows. With that setup there isn't any issues. I think most people are keeping their old pc's for training stuff when they upgrade to 64-bit computers or change to Mac. Don't know what the future of this is.
6) WKO+ is the Training Peaks software. Have to have it. Here's a link - The power webinar is also a must have. You will learn everything you need to know to get started by watching the first 2 hours of the webinar.
Hope this helps
Becky- I am a MAC user, BUT became very frustrated with trying to run WKO on the Windows side of the MAC. Prior to Moo Camp I purchased an Asus netbook (~300) to run WKO on. The netbook is not my primary computer, but certainly has made it better to follow my training with WKO.
The Joule is user friendly, but you can e*pect a learning curve given that you are new to power. Lotsa help in the Haus though, so jump in!!
@Bill - you are an animal. I am pretty sure that the Joule batter will last for 24 hours but as I would never even consider riding my bike that far I can't say for sure. Maybe post it over on ST and Rappstar will chime in. He is sponsored by them and it seems like if he does not know something he emails someone at saris and has the answer pretty quick.