@ Becky - I've just finished doing 8 long rides in four weeks of 60-112 miles, and only had the Joule reset once. That happened because I had the time set wrong. While stopped, I reset to the proper time, making it a new day, and discovered that the Joule reset to 0 when the new day "started".
@Becky - I have had similar issues with my Joule. Riding along and all of a sudden the entire thing resets. Time, distance, everything resets back to zero and starts up again. Never happens indoors. First time was just prior to IMAZ so I ordered a new battery. I opened up the back to replace the battery and the little plug that goes from the battery to the unit was partially out. I pushed it back all the way in and it was a non-issue after that. Same thing just happened to me when I started riding outside again a couple weeks ago. Same problem. Same fix.
Don't know if that's your issue, but if not, maybe it will help someone else on the team.
What's the easiest way to download data? I tried the Training Peaks Device Agent, but it didnt work. Ended up downloading using PowerAgent then exporting and importing into WKO as a .csv.
What's the easiest way to download data? I tried the Training Peaks Device Agent, but it didnt work. Ended up downloading using PowerAgent then exporting and importing into WKO as a .csv.
Seems clumsy...
That's what I do. But I'm using a Mac with Parallels, so I thought that was the reason TP DA didn't work ... Besides, I can play with the data in PowerAgent and the graphs there are easier to read than WKO+
Another newbie "JouleUser " question: I just just got my joule (had been using Garmin 500), 3 hour ride today on the joule showed a TSS of 199.2 and a IF of .820. When I download into WKO+ the TSS is 150 and the IF is .71. I need to get this figured out before IMCDA in 2 weeks so I can monitor my IF during the race. I entered my FTP into Poweragent 7 and then hit the configure device button, but there is no way of seeing if the FTP setting in the Joule is actually set at my FTP (287). Does anyone have any ideas why my Joule would be so far off the readings on WKO+?
@Steve - make sure your FTP is correctly set in the Joule. Go to Power Agent, double click on your name, go to power zones, make sure your FTP is set correctly, then configure device. This way you're Joule and WKO+ FTP numbers should match.
Had time to get an extra ride in this morning in addition to a successful 'plan' week. Legs were tired so I decided to ride a little easier than the usual stuff. Goal was to keep the IF between .8 and .85. SUCCESS. According to the Joule, I finished the ride around .81 ( though the VI was >1.2 ). But when I logged the data into WKO, it gave me an IF of .73. Why the difference? Which one is right? I hope it's the Joule cuz that's what I gotz on race day.
Compare all your data from WKO to PA and you will probably find alot more discrepancies(check vertical feet mine differs by 25% or more). Also some of the data displayed on the JOULE doesn't match downloaded data. The intervals displayed on the JOULE add up to 25% or more from the data downloaded. They have had tons of problems with distance. I have had lots of problems and incorrect data with my JOULE/Quarq and very little help getting it resolved. At least the power and work numbers appear to be correct on mine anyway. Infact I am close to purchasing a Garmin 500 soon.
So, do I believe the Joule? Or, when I ride, do I kick it a little harder cuz WKO will say that the Joule is overestimating the value of my work? The Joule is very consistent. I just don't understand why the numbers for a ride differ in WKO vs the Joule's history.
I just finally had to go and buy a Garmin 500 Edge, as I just got too frustrated with Joule issues. I think some of the differences on the IF / NP readings might come from the Joule not reading Zero power readings correctly on the Quarq. I noticed when coasting more than about 5 sec., the power and cadence showed dashes instead of zeroes. This puzzled me, as I thought it should show zero. When looking at WKO, I notice my zero wattage percentage was only about 1-2%, and that just could not be correct and there were big gaps in the power data, which told me it wasn't capturing that data. Called Quarq and they said it broadcast zero for about 10 min until in went to sleep, so it likely isn't the Quarq not transmitting after 5 sec.
After doing some more research, it sounds like the Joule depends on cadence to signal it to collect power info. Once you stop pedaling, it stops collecting data from the Quarq.
I think most of these issues are just the ANT+ (Quarq) issues, as I haven't heard any trouble with Joule / PT.
Combine the power deal with other firmware issues that still aren't resolved on the latest beta upgrade made me just want to switch. Don't get me wrong, I really liked the Joule, and the info it gave was AWESOME , but it just frustrated me. I will use it with my PT bike and, if they figure out a good firmware fix, I will use it again. Until then, I'm with the Garmin.
I used that Garmin this weekend, and it worked very well. I had power set to not record zeroes and the average power was almost right on with NP, once loading in to WKO. I did notice, however, that the increase in zero power readings really brought down my average power, resulting in a higher than expected VI. Now that I have the info, I can really work on things for sure ! Without those zero data points in the Joule, it seemed to overstate the average power, and then understate the VI.
Maybe I'm wrong here, but that's just what I've kind of noticed.
Good luck ! Again - I think the Joule is great, but just a few too many bugs in the software for me right now.
@terry- I did that to enter my proper FTP into the joule, but still have a large discrepancy from my "on-ride" IF and TSS to my downloaded IF and TSS. I am doing IMCDA in two weeks and need to get this matter resolved since I plan on using the Joule to maintain the proper EN paces on race day. Any suggestions?
@Steve - Gotta imagine it's a Joule issue. If you know where your targets are in your head, you should be able to figure out if it's the Joule or WKO+. If the Joule has your correct FTP, it simply cannot calculate incorrect numbers. Likewise for WKO+. Sounds like @Chris also having same issue.
I don't want to presume that anyone isn't doing something correctly with their devices/technology, but the Joule is the same as any other little computer gadget. It does not make calculation mistakes. If the FTP in the device is X, and NP on the ride is Y, then IF will beY/X = Z and TSS will follow suit. Forget all the weird "power zones" in power agent. Like many of us, they only confuse non-roadies like me. Make sure the FTP is correct. Don't use calculate function, just enter it in the box. Make up numbers for 4 min and 30 min peak power, they don't contribute to the numbers on the device. They only serve to come up with an FTP if you use the "calculate FTP" button. As an example, my FTP is 240 and I arbitrarily entered 320 for 4 min and 250 for 30 min. But I did not calculate, I entered 240 in my FTP. Then plug in the Joule and click on the "configure device" button to load the settings into the Joule.
I use device agent to load my workouts into WKO+ and it definitely takes the data and compiles it differently than PA, but the difference in the numbers is nominal...one or two points on an interval for NP. But this is after the workout. When you are out there riding, this is completely unimportant.
If you know your targets, you should be able to figure out the problem. As an example, if you are certain that your FTP is, say, 250 then 80% will be 200, 70% would be 175, etc. So if your NP at the end of the ride is 175, then you know you're IF is 0.70, no matter what the unit (or WKO+) says. If one is wrong, and the other is right, than you know which one is the culprit. But even if you don't figure any of this out, at least you know where your target NP should be and you can aim for that. Don't forget that before the Joule (and really even now), EN teaching is to print out your four target gears and tape to the stem. That way, no matter what the IF is reading, you know exactly where you're at.
Finally, @Everyone, while all devices have issues, don't forget that it is usually the person, and not the device or software that causes significant problems. Through this thread, and extensive experience with the device since it's release, we have been able to troubleshoot all major issues with the Joule over the last 14 months. And for those considering the Garmin, while a great device (can anything Ancona uses be bad), it cannot calculate and display NP or TSS on the fly. Only average power and IF.
I'm sure that it's user error in my case, just not sure what I've done to cause the delta between Joule data vs WKO data. Now, this is not a case of 'paralysis by analysis'. I'm falling back on the Joule when I ride. I'm confident with my FTP and I use the Joule for targets. Downloading into WKO is just gravy, fun to look at the progress, and will be interesting to check out at the end of the year.
Sorry folks - I wasn't trying to be a big downer on my Joule / Quarq post. Wasn't trying to do that, and I apologize if it came across that way. I just finally had to pull the plug for a while, as the issues I was having just frustrated me. I'll keep on watching for upgrades / updates on the Joule / Quarq setup. I'd sure like to use it, as the data it provides during the ride is awesome !
Can't wait to see updates in the future so I can get back to using the Joule.
Thanks terry- I just did the math on my numbers from yesterday and the FTP in the joule is set at the default of 250. So for some reason the joule is not accepting my change when I use power agent. I am going to call Saris this morning and see if they can shed some light on the subject. See you in Arizona!
@steve make sure you have the lastest power agent software on your joule.
I had a few issues yesterday at KS w/ my joule. First off, I got to the race and put the joule on and broke the mount that goes on the bike so I taped it on. Second issue was for some reason, I could not get the real time watts to display, where I normally see watts was ride time, if I toggled through I could get ride time and speed....weird. For some reason the dashboard was changed....I didn't change it, I know how to run the joule and the dashboard settings etc. I was able to see my norm power and TSS. I've went from a novice to pretty experienced PM user in the two years I've had a powertap so riding steady not too much of a problem. I rode fine and just split out my Norm power into half hour increments. Third issue, I had saved my data since about February. I should have cleared it out. It stopped recording about 1:15 into the ride so my power file is pretty worthless post ride. Third issue could have been prevented, lesson learned. The other two things no idea what the deal was. I have raced 5 long course races w/ power/pace never had an issue until yesterday.
You know the feeling when you get so frustrated with a situation cause you KNOW that you are doing things the right way and it still won't work. Then you figure out that you WEREN"T doings things the right way all along and you feel like an ARSE when you do it right and it actually WORKS? YEA...Well thats me right now.
The Problem: could not get my FTP from PA to the Joule. It was stuck on the default of 250.
The Solution: On the configure device screen it has a drop down menu for USER- I wasn't selecting myself as the user, so it didn't know who's info to configure to the device. DUH!
I am posting this slightly embarrasing realization so some other schmuck that is having the same issue can learn from my experiences. OK let the snickering begin!
@ Steve - I had the exact same experience when I first started using my Joule early this year. Luckily for my EN public persona, I called Saris, and got the answer very poltiely and quickly over the phone. You'd think they'd make that a bit clearer in the manual, but ...
That's great Steve. You should be good to go now. And don't feel like an ass. That's what this thread (and these forums) are for. I would say most of us Joule users, especially the early adopters, have had the same issues. Like Al said, it's not intuitive. That's why the thread was created.
Good luck at CdA and maybe I'll see you at Lake Stevens. I'm thinking about doing it if I can get that weekend off.
Don't own a Joule, have thought about it, but just saw DC Rainmaker post on the new Joule units with and without GPS. Pricing is sick! $169 without GPS and $269 with. Damn glad I didn't buy one now. Hoping Garmin will now have to step up and add the metrics to combat the Joule.
I just am going to begin training with a power meter, and have a powertap pro and LYC. I like the features of the Joule, and would like to get my hands on one. However should I wait for the new Joule and use my LYC, or buy the existing one?
I called Sawiris last week about the new Joule, as I figured I'd see you guys talking about it sooner or later . He said to not expect it until later this year or early next year.
If you recall, last year (or '09, I forget) the Joule was announced at Interbike in September. We did a group order in about October, November but I wasn't able to deliver on those until probably February. My advice is to wait and let others be beta testers for this. Don't forget that this is also Saris' first steps into GPS technology.
@ timothy- The main reason to buy a joule is to get live TSS, IF and NP while you are riding. If those metrics are not important to you, you can buy ANY number of quality power heads. If those metrics are important to you, then get the present form of the Joule. It's tested, the firmware is up to date, and you have a ton of support here on this forum. Waiting for the next generation although it's supposed to less $$ will have all the bugs to be worked out. If you go through this thread to the begginning you will see that there were a LOT of bugs. IOW buy the Joule 2.0 you won't be disappointed. Just finished IMCDA with a 3 week old Joule2.0 and can confidently say tht I would not have gone sub 12 hours without the live IF reminding me to go easy on the hills.
Any way to turn the Joule off manually? I usually ride a few admin miles to start my route, start the joule, do my route, then ride the admin miles home. I don't want to record these admin miles from the return trip home on the workout file.
Anyone know of a way to do that, without waiting around for 2-3 minutes for the Joule to go to sleep?
Just hold down the LEFT button until the MENU appears, toggle down to "Stop and Save", press the toggle down, VOILA! Or, if you want to start up again after those admin miles, leave the menu on Resume, then press toggle in when you are ready to start recording again.
OK. For those of you who have had issues with the Joule, Power Agent, WKO+ and Device agent with Windows 7-64 bit, Scott and I figured it out and solved the problem. Refer to this thread.
@Steve - had same issue, couldn't get my newly-earned FTP to download to Joule despite "configuring device" because I didn't select myself as the user in the dropdown either. Doh! Well, that's why these forums exist I guess.
The other issue I was having with my Joule was when I was trying to set new intervals on a 6 hour bike as per Al's and others' advice. I couldn't get numbers and everything to "reset" in the current view, it just would keep toggling Int1, 2, 3, 4, etc but readout would stay the same, ie cumulative data. After much playing around and trying to figure out from the manual, I now do a "double-tap": a quick press of the interval button to toggle the new interval, immediately followed by a "firm press" holding about 2 seconds until the current display actually switches to that new interval and resets all currently displayed parameters to zero. Live and learn.
ps - Al and others - this was a GREAT piece of advice, keeps me honest in the short run, here-and-now - rather than being able to fudge a "sticky" NP, avgP, or IF averaged across an entire 6 hour span.
When downloading my data to WKO+ 3.0 using Device Agent, my data is getting corrupted. Time, Distance, and other data are being grossly changed to much higher levels than the Joule. For example, a one hour ride is being changed to a 116 hour ride, a joule reading of a 64 TSS is changed to a 356 TSS, etc.
Comments
@ Becky - I've just finished doing 8 long rides in four weeks of 60-112 miles, and only had the Joule reset once. That happened because I had the time set wrong. While stopped, I reset to the proper time, making it a new day, and discovered that the Joule reset to 0 when the new day "started".
Don't know if that's your issue, but if not, maybe it will help someone else on the team.
Anyone want to buy a new Joule battery?
First long ride with the Joule yesterday. (RR)
What's the easiest way to download data? I tried the Training Peaks Device Agent, but it didnt work. Ended up downloading using PowerAgent then exporting and importing into WKO as a .csv.
Seems clumsy...
That's what I do. But I'm using a Mac with Parallels, so I thought that was the reason TP DA didn't work ... Besides, I can play with the data in PowerAgent and the graphs there are easier to read than WKO+
Another newbie "JouleUser " question: I just just got my joule (had been using Garmin 500), 3 hour ride today on the joule showed a TSS of 199.2 and a IF of .820. When I download into WKO+ the TSS is 150 and the IF is .71. I need to get this figured out before IMCDA in 2 weeks so I can monitor my IF during the race. I entered my FTP into Poweragent 7 and then hit the configure device button, but there is no way of seeing if the FTP setting in the Joule is actually set at my FTP (287). Does anyone have any ideas why my Joule would be so far off the readings on WKO+?
@Steve - make sure your FTP is correctly set in the Joule. Go to Power Agent, double click on your name, go to power zones, make sure your FTP is set correctly, then configure device. This way you're Joule and WKO+ FTP numbers should match.
Had time to get an extra ride in this morning in addition to a successful 'plan' week. Legs were tired so I decided to ride a little easier than the usual stuff. Goal was to keep the IF between .8 and .85. SUCCESS. According to the Joule, I finished the ride around .81 ( though the VI was >1.2 ). But when I logged the data into WKO, it gave me an IF of .73. Why the difference? Which one is right? I hope it's the Joule cuz that's what I gotz on race day.
Any thoughts?
Good Luck Tim,
After doing some more research, it sounds like the Joule depends on cadence to signal it to collect power info. Once you stop pedaling, it stops collecting data from the Quarq.
I think most of these issues are just the ANT+ (Quarq) issues, as I haven't heard any trouble with Joule / PT.
Combine the power deal with other firmware issues that still aren't resolved on the latest beta upgrade made me just want to switch. Don't get me wrong, I really liked the Joule, and the info it gave was AWESOME , but it just frustrated me. I will use it with my PT bike and, if they figure out a good firmware fix, I will use it again. Until then, I'm with the Garmin.
I used that Garmin this weekend, and it worked very well. I had power set to not record zeroes and the average power was almost right on with NP, once loading in to WKO. I did notice, however, that the increase in zero power readings really brought down my average power, resulting in a higher than expected VI. Now that I have the info, I can really work on things for sure ! Without those zero data points in the Joule, it seemed to overstate the average power, and then understate the VI.
Maybe I'm wrong here, but that's just what I've kind of noticed.
Good luck ! Again - I think the Joule is great, but just a few too many bugs in the software for me right now.
@terry- I did that to enter my proper FTP into the joule, but still have a large discrepancy from my "on-ride" IF and TSS to my downloaded IF and TSS. I am doing IMCDA in two weeks and need to get this matter resolved since I plan on using the Joule to maintain the proper EN paces on race day. Any suggestions?
I don't want to presume that anyone isn't doing something correctly with their devices/technology, but the Joule is the same as any other little computer gadget. It does not make calculation mistakes. If the FTP in the device is X, and NP on the ride is Y, then IF will beY/X = Z and TSS will follow suit. Forget all the weird "power zones" in power agent. Like many of us, they only confuse non-roadies like me. Make sure the FTP is correct. Don't use calculate function, just enter it in the box. Make up numbers for 4 min and 30 min peak power, they don't contribute to the numbers on the device. They only serve to come up with an FTP if you use the "calculate FTP" button. As an example, my FTP is 240 and I arbitrarily entered 320 for 4 min and 250 for 30 min. But I did not calculate, I entered 240 in my FTP. Then plug in the Joule and click on the "configure device" button to load the settings into the Joule.
I use device agent to load my workouts into WKO+ and it definitely takes the data and compiles it differently than PA, but the difference in the numbers is nominal...one or two points on an interval for NP. But this is after the workout. When you are out there riding, this is completely unimportant.
If you know your targets, you should be able to figure out the problem. As an example, if you are certain that your FTP is, say, 250 then 80% will be 200, 70% would be 175, etc. So if your NP at the end of the ride is 175, then you know you're IF is 0.70, no matter what the unit (or WKO+) says. If one is wrong, and the other is right, than you know which one is the culprit. But even if you don't figure any of this out, at least you know where your target NP should be and you can aim for that. Don't forget that before the Joule (and really even now), EN teaching is to print out your four target gears and tape to the stem. That way, no matter what the IF is reading, you know exactly where you're at.
Finally, @Everyone, while all devices have issues, don't forget that it is usually the person, and not the device or software that causes significant problems. Through this thread, and extensive experience with the device since it's release, we have been able to troubleshoot all major issues with the Joule over the last 14 months. And for those considering the Garmin, while a great device (can anything Ancona uses be bad), it cannot calculate and display NP or TSS on the fly. Only average power and IF.
Can't wait to see updates in the future so I can get back to using the Joule.
Mike
Thanks terry- I just did the math on my numbers from yesterday and the FTP in the joule is set at the default of 250. So for some reason the joule is not accepting my change when I use power agent. I am going to call Saris this morning and see if they can shed some light on the subject. See you in Arizona!
I had a few issues yesterday at KS w/ my joule. First off, I got to the race and put the joule on and broke the mount that goes on the bike so I taped it on.
Second issue was for some reason, I could not get the real time watts to display, where I normally see watts was ride time, if I toggled through I could get ride time and speed....weird. For some reason the dashboard was changed....I didn't change it, I know how to run the joule and the dashboard settings etc. I was able to see my norm power and TSS. I've went from a novice to pretty experienced PM user in the two years I've had a powertap so riding steady not too much of a problem. I rode fine and just split out my Norm power into half hour increments.
Third issue, I had saved my data since about February. I should have cleared it out. It stopped recording about 1:15 into the ride so my power file is pretty worthless post ride.
Third issue could have been prevented, lesson learned. The other two things no idea what the deal was. I have raced 5 long course races w/ power/pace never had an issue until yesterday.
You know the feeling when you get so frustrated with a situation cause you KNOW that you are doing things the right way and it still won't work. Then you figure out that you WEREN"T doings things the right way all along and you feel like an ARSE when you do it right and it actually WORKS? YEA...Well thats me right now.
The Problem: could not get my FTP from PA to the Joule. It was stuck on the default of 250.
The Solution: On the configure device screen it has a drop down menu for USER- I wasn't selecting myself as the user, so it didn't know who's info to configure to the device. DUH!
I am posting this slightly embarrasing realization so some other schmuck that is having the same issue can learn from my experiences. OK let the snickering begin!
@ Steve - I had the exact same experience when I first started using my Joule early this year. Luckily for my EN public persona, I called Saris, and got the answer very poltiely and quickly over the phone. You'd think they'd make that a bit clearer in the manual, but ...
Good luck at CdA and maybe I'll see you at Lake Stevens. I'm thinking about doing it if I can get that weekend off.
Don't own a Joule, have thought about it, but just saw DC Rainmaker post on the new Joule units with and without GPS. Pricing is sick! $169 without GPS and $269 with. Damn glad I didn't buy one now. Hoping Garmin will now have to step up and add the metrics to combat the Joule.
Here is a pic of them:
ow.ly/i/cWDJ
Tim
I called Sawiris last week about the new Joule, as I figured I'd see you guys talking about it sooner or later
. He said to not expect it until later this year or early next year.
If you recall, last year (or '09, I forget) the Joule was announced at Interbike in September. We did a group order in about October, November but I wasn't able to deliver on those until probably February. My advice is to wait and let others be beta testers for this. Don't forget that this is also Saris' first steps into GPS technology.
@ timothy- The main reason to buy a joule is to get live TSS, IF and NP while you are riding. If those metrics are not important to you, you can buy ANY number of quality power heads. If those metrics are important to you, then get the present form of the Joule. It's tested, the firmware is up to date, and you have a ton of support here on this forum. Waiting for the next generation although it's supposed to less $$ will have all the bugs to be worked out. If you go through this thread to the begginning you will see that there were a LOT of bugs. IOW buy the Joule 2.0 you won't be disappointed. Just finished IMCDA with a 3 week old Joule2.0 and can confidently say tht I would not have gone sub 12 hours without the live IF reminding me to go easy on the hills.
Any way to turn the Joule off manually? I usually ride a few admin miles to start my route, start the joule, do my route, then ride the admin miles home. I don't want to record these admin miles from the return trip home on the workout file.
Anyone know of a way to do that, without waiting around for 2-3 minutes for the Joule to go to sleep?
There is no way to turn the Joule off, I have already asked that question. What about hitting the interval button.
Just hold down the LEFT button until the MENU appears, toggle down to "Stop and Save", press the toggle down, VOILA! Or, if you want to start up again after those admin miles, leave the menu on Resume, then press toggle in when you are ready to start recording again.
OK. For those of you who have had issues with the Joule, Power Agent, WKO+ and Device agent with Windows 7-64 bit, Scott and I figured it out and solved the problem. Refer to this thread.
The other issue I was having with my Joule was when I was trying to set new intervals on a 6 hour bike as per Al's and others' advice. I couldn't get numbers and everything to "reset" in the current view, it just would keep toggling Int1, 2, 3, 4, etc but readout would stay the same, ie cumulative data. After much playing around and trying to figure out from the manual, I now do a "double-tap": a quick press of the interval button to toggle the new interval, immediately followed by a "firm press" holding about 2 seconds until the current display actually switches to that new interval and resets all currently displayed parameters to zero. Live and learn.
ps - Al and others - this was a GREAT piece of advice, keeps me honest in the short run, here-and-now - rather than being able to fudge a "sticky" NP, avgP, or IF averaged across an entire 6 hour span.
Any suggestions?
Tim