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Scott Giljum's Micro thread
Hi Patrick,
Quick question, no the Wed ride you have for me (75 min in z2), big gear work for 30 min. Am I to do 105 min total or put the 30 min among the 75? Thanks!
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Hi Patrick,
Quick question, no the Wed ride you have for me (75 min in z2), big gear work for 30 min. Am I to do 105 min total or put the 30 min among the 75? Thanks!
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I figured I would use this for the moment to give you updates on how things are going and deal with any questions. Then as needed we can set up some calls. Please let me know any details you want regarding my training, scheduled races, etc. so that I can give you all the details you need. First, I am about to finish the first run block. I seem to be locking in around 8:00-8:15, which I know is a bit faster than what we talked about, but I hold the form just fine for 9 miles or so without much thought as to form and the like. I am pretty happy with that. My HR tends to stay around 145 to 150 at that work rate. My bikes have felt pretty good with the limited number of days so far (something I know is about to change) as I can throw in some solid effort knowing I won't be back on the bike for a few days. Also, I have switched to my road bike for the time being. I am looking forward to what is changing for next week. I might have questions related to that, but will let you know. Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks!
Scott
I'd like to hear from you here after your first week to see how the change is treating you, then maybe we schedule a call for Weeks 4 and 8 to capture your progression and review your log, etc? You can find my contact details under Support / Staff....thanks!
I wanted to give you another update on where I am with questions, comments, etc. So I just finished the first week of the second block you set up for me. It will only last one more week before I move on to the last block of the run durability plan, set to end at the Jan Volume Camp (super excited for this. And yes, I am that boring!). This week the logistics made it a bit of a challange, and I was feeling a bit more fatigue, but it usually takes me about a week or two to get used to a new level of effort, so I'm not really worried about it. The running is still right about the same (8-8:15, hr in the 140-155 range). I did do a race yesterday where I went way hotter than that, but that was by design. The bike feels great, though I think it is more to do with the few days I am on it currently, but I will take it. I have been using my roadie and my power is up (as I would expect, both from a getting back some of my power after the long IM training as well as the roadie geometry better set up for that). The swims have been the 2250 laid out in the plan and they have been fine. The first one was a tad rough, but just because I haven't been in the pool for a while. Let me know what else you might want to know.
I do have a few questions:
1. For the GRP running, should I target effort or time? I have been using the pace number, but obviously I have to crank it a bit harder when I deal with uphills. I assume this is the right way to go, but wanted to check. Should I target HR instead for those periods?
2. For the bike rides, my Strava files still show power output in the shape of a bell curve as opposed to the two or three better defined areas. Should I care about that yet or just get in the miles? After our first conversation I have thought a lot about the difference between bike and run and why the run has developed so much better for me. One is that a number of my runs have some pretty set paces and I am very diligent with it which makes me think it has helped me dial it in a bit better. Should I be doing the same on the bike with power zones or am I over thinking this?
3. I have a choice between Challange Knoxville or the Grand Fondo a few hours from town. They happen to land on the same weekend (just bad luck I guess). Which would you recommend I go with?
4. Should I be posting my training stuff to the General training discussion thread to get other's input? I see some folks doing that but as someone who doesn't enjoy the "look at me" aspects of really much of anything I have always hesitated. I just wanted your thoughts on that.
5. When would you like to talk on the phone/skype? I am taking a trip from Dec 27- Jan 3, so I can talk before or after. Just let me know.
I think that is all I have for the moment. Thanks again and I hope all is well!
Scott, see my replies to you below in red!
I do have a few questions:
1. For the GRP running, should I target effort or time? I have been using the pace number, but obviously I have to crank it a bit harder when I deal with uphills. I assume this is the right way to go, but wanted to check. Should I target HR instead for those periods? I like a specific pace target so be exact as we don't want to run too hard and mess things up. When you hit a hill, up or down, yes you need to adjust your pace as 7:00/mile on flats becomes 7:20s on a hill and then 6:40s on the downhill. Don't run up that hill at the same "flat" effort as that will be the equivalent of a threshold mile! You can use your HR here, as if you are adjusting the pace properly for the terrain you will only see a minimal change in the HR number.
2. For the bike rides, my Strava files still show power output in the shape of a bell curve as opposed to the two or three better defined areas. Should I care about that yet or just get in the miles? After our first conversation I have thought a lot about the difference between bike and run and why the run has developed so much better for me. One is that a number of my runs have some pretty set paces and I am very diligent with it which makes me think it has helped me dial it in a bit better. Should I be doing the same on the bike with power zones or am I over thinking this? You want to be really specific when it matters, aka during the main set (z4/FTP) or reminder of time (z3/ABP). Otherwise it's natural to see a bell curve in any given workout. More time in ^those^ zones will help you see more improvement!
3. I have a choice between Challange Knoxville or the Grand Fondo a few hours from town. They happen to land on the same weekend (just bad luck I guess). Which would you recommend I go with? Depends when your A race is? If you have another half option and this is 8 or more weeks out from your A race, then do the Fondo...those things are FUN.
4. Should I be posting my training stuff to the General training discussion thread to get other's input? I see some folks doing that but as someone who doesn't enjoy the "look at me" aspects of really much of anything I have always hesitated. I just wanted your thoughts on that. I'd keep it to your questions...like if you notice you swim better at night, then maybe you want to ask others about their experiences, etc? But no need to just "update" them there.
5. When would you like to talk on the phone/skype? I am taking a trip from Dec 27- Jan 3, so I can talk before or after. Just let me know. I am flexible...but my week is pretty book up through Xmas..after might be better...find a time here: My schedule is online here: http://meetme.so/patrickmccrann -- Please remember to include your phone number. Or text me if that won't work so early in the year.
Best!
P
Patrick,
First, I wanted to say how great the camp was, you all really did a great job on it. With that, I had a couple quick questions/requests:
1. Can you email me the swim workouts you put together for the two days? I liked the drills and the sets and wanted them to remember what I am doing/think I can put them to good use as I swim a bit in the OS.
2. For the bike, esp given what I said about comfort on descents on the tri bike, should I be switching from the roadie back to the tri bike at this point or does it matter? I suspect at least for the first few months it will be cold enough where I won't get too many chances to go outside, but you never know. Also, will my FTP be fairly different on the two bikes or should the be pretty close (in case I switch bikes down the road)?
Other items: - I know you had mentioned something at some point, but before I register for Challenge Knoxville, is there a team discount? Also, what is the typical recommendation on when to get in to town and leave again? I know what this looks like for a full, but wasn't sure if it is similar for the half.
As always, thanks for the help!
Swim workouts are in your inbox, enjoy! As for the bike, stick with the roadie. The better you get at riding that will only help you on the tri side. How different your FTP is will be a function of how aggro your tri set up is...mine is like 10% lower....but it doesn't mean I am any slower, au contraire I am 2-3mph faster on tri bike...but road bike means I can get tons of work done. So Work it out!
I don't think we have a discount now it's challenge vs rev3, but that's worth a message to mariah as she's reaching out to them! (mariah@endurancenation.us)
Travel wise I keep it simple...friday night for a Sunday race, etc...no big whoop!
Patrick,
I just wanted to give you a quick update on where things are as we are now a few weeks in to the JOS. As before, the running feels good. I am not loving the 3x1 miles @ z4, but if I did I would worry about it more than if I didn't. For the swim, I have been hitting the 2x2k per week with most of that 2k drills. I am trying to focus on adding in that length/reach with relaxed arms and hands. The bike has still been the toughest part, but so far so good. I do notice my energy level can be quite different on this, with the results showing it. I hammered the goals in the first full week and then struggled to hit them last week. I am looking at what may be feeding into that ranging from rest to diet to just being the hero one week and paying for it the next. If you have insight into this, I would appreciate it, though I suspect unless you took residence in my house and watched what I did all day it will be mostly a guessing game. If you have any questions or things I should be thinking about as it relates to any of this, please let me know.
I do have a few questions as long as I am writing. First relates to the swimming. As I stretch out the glide of my pull to correct what was wrong with my stroke, I find it harder to maintain a three count breathing pattern. I start to feel oxygen deprived a bit as I am keeping my head in the water longer than I used to. I am tinkering a bit with it all to try to make it work better, but I find if I want to breath more comfortably I need to speed up my stroke. To do so though usually comes at the expense of the glide. Is this just one of those deals where I need to find the balance or will my lungs start to get used to the new way after a while? Also, when I try to "go slower" it does just that which only means my head is in the water longer; so that doesn't solve the problem.
Second is the bike. I have been targeting to raise the FTP goal each week just a bit to build up to where I can hit a consistent 12 minutes around the 260-265 range (my previous plateau). Is there a good amount to bump that by? I have been baby stepping at about 2-3 watts so that I don't blow myself up but I can see that at this pace it will be a long time before I get there.
Also, would a half iron on July 25th be too late to work? There is one not too far from St. Louis. I could sneak in the fondo then if it works.
As always, thanks for the input and I hope the snow globe you are living in relents at some point soon!
I have found a similar issue on my end as well. For me it's a function of what I am doing across the week...sometimes I run just a little too fast, or a stay up a little too late, etc...shows how close I am to my limits. On the other hand I have found that when I show up feeling great, the workout usually sucks...but when I am tired and plan to get it done...it's great. IOW, I need to get better about divorcing my expectations from what I am actually able to do...on the days I feel great (esp on the bike) but the numbers are low I am instantly put off...not sure where you fall on that mental spectrum.
Ideally we are talking about just a second or more here, to be clear (three strokes each with a bit more glide). My guess is you haven't backed off the effort at all....so swimming just as "hard" but with longer time in the water (for better strokes) is causing you the problem. I'd be curious to know the time difference per 100 or 200 when you swim your normal way and when you "back it off" a touch so you can get a full stroke. For me, it's not very much at all...and a total worthy trade off. Think of it as aerobars (swim with glide) vs road bike (no glide)...the watts go down in my aerobars, but I am (a) faster and (b) able to go longer at (c) a lower HR == WIN!
I don't know where you are at right now, but I am totally fine with you stepping it up and riding harder as long as you can hold the numbers. IOW if you think you can do 250 today, give it a shot, no reason why you can't do that!
A july 25th half would be fine...sounds like a plan!!!
As always, thanks for the thoughtful response. On the swim question, before JVC (and the realization I was not letting my stroke glide enough), I was able to stay right around 1:27/100, with that effort feeling like I was working but not killing it. The killing it time was around 1:20. Now that I focus on the glide/reach more, my time is still right around that (with doing so many drills, I haven't fully dialed in what my time looks like so it still varies by a few seconds from day to day). When I "go slower" or in my cool down or warm up type mode I tend to be around 1:30. I think it might be more a timing deal where I need to find the right balance between glide and stroke rate.
As for the mental part, I typically wake up (as it appears you do) at a 4 handle type time and feel like I am death warmed over. It is funny that I will feel like this at least partly almost no matter how early I go to bed. I will feel better obviously if I go to bed earlier, but there appears to be a limit to how good I end up feeling. If I get to sleep in a bit though, that can feel like magic and whatever work I have suddenly feels better. Just weird. For me the pre-workout work is more just getting my head around doing whatever interval session I have on the agenda while feeling pretty tired.
Not really any questions there, just information. Thanks again for all your help!
I am trying to figure out where to go from here. I know I can always back down the target and that will make it easier to hit and sustain, but I am hesitant to do that because I am really shooting for that growth, and I feel like I am giving in if I do that. Mental stuff I know. Also, the three days in a row of HARD work is making each day feel progressively worse and harder. And in case you couldn't tell by the tone of this, I am in a week where it is too hard/I have to pull the plug when I don't really want to.
I guess at the end of the day, my question is should I just back off the targets for now or suck it up and just do what I can for as long as I can? Is riding the roller coaster ok or should I aim for a smoother ride up. I am planning on trying to stick to the 270 this week just to see if I can make it happen again this week, but I am constantly worried about downstream impact/having thoughts that there is no way I will ever recover from this (even though I am sure some down time would sort that out). I just feel like I am hammering away HARD and need to know if where I am is a good thing or bad.
Sorry if this comes off confusing, I can't quite put words to where I my head and body are at right now. Any thoughts are appreciated.
The hard part is you CAN do both for a few weeks...but then you can't keep it up. Pick your battles...
It has been a bit since I checked in so I thought I would now as I am about to finish the outseason. First, the good news, I had a PR in a half mary this last weekend that bumped my vDot to 51. I was pretty excited about that. I am planning on doing a bike test next week to see where that is, but I feel stronger on the bike, maybe just not as strong as I would like. I am still doing the 2x12 around 265 and 4x4 around 275. I am doing well with the 4x4 but struggling with the 2x12. I seem to be able to hang on for the shorter time period but can't quite keep it together on the 2x12. Thoughts?
Also, based on the plan you have laid out for me, it looks like there is a two week gap after the OS before I jump into a bike focus. Is this set aside for swim camp? I assume it is largely a mental reset but wanted to see what your thoughts were with that. I want to get myself set up well for the bike focus to really try to pump that up as much as I can.
If you have any questions on what I have been doing, let me know. Thanks!
I am not so worried about the 12' intervals; mine were the same way. Some are good...some not...all were really hard (which is the point). When we transition you off the OS, things will shift so just keep pushing with your Best Possible Effort for those intervals and don't get too mad if they are 261 vs 265.
I like the break post OS for Swim Camp...or at least a one week reset. If you'd like, maybe schedule a call with me that week and we can recap the OS and use that as a chance to review the rest of the season?
My schedule is online here: http://meetme.so/patrickmccrann -- Please remember to include your phone number.
Finish strong!
I needed to get your thoughts on what I should do with my week next week. I will be leaving for a work deal out of town starting kinda early Thursday (leaving home around 9) and not getting back until later Sunday. I likely won't have access to a pool and typically don't bring my bike with me, though if you think it is needed, I can figure it out. To refresh, at this point my week goes like so: M-run w/strides, swim, T-FTP ride, W- Long Run, Th-FTP ride, F-same as Monday, Sat-4-5 steady ride, Sun-2-3 ABP ride with a 30 min run. I want to get as much out of the bike as possible, so maybe shifting some of the work around and then doing some runs on the weekend? Let me know what you think. Thanks!
Sun - Extend ABP ride to 4 hours with an hour of earlier steady.
Mon - Run Strides + Swim
Tues - FTP Ride
Wed - Run Strides + Swim
Thu - Early AM FTP Ride Pre Trip
Fri - FTP Run
Sat - Long Run
Sun - Short 45' with strides, just get it done.
So we load up bike before you go to compensate for a missed weekend of long rides (really, it's ok). You can swim slightly longer Mon / Wed if possible. Pack all your fuel and hydration as needed for the weekend...when you get back, let's plan on the next weekend having extended rides again (we can talk to see how you feel) and you should be fine...it's not so much about one session as keeping the ball rolling!
Lock down happens 8 to 10 weeks out...I prefer 10 weeks out...keep the questions coming!
Ok, I am back in town and was able to do the running as we talked about. Last week was also the last week of the bike block I had been working through, which means this week is when I start the IM plan. As such, do I just do the workouts as described or do you have any suggestions or modifications I should take into account?
There's always room for one more volume pop on the bike as well, but let's set up a call to discuss the final 6 weeks when you have time!
My schedule is online here: http://meetme.so/patrickmccrann -- Please remember to include your phone number.
Looking forward to it!
I booked some time, we can chat more then. But to make sure I am doing what you are looking for, I am only doing one long ride and a long run (split) on the weekend? If this is what you think will work, I will go with it, but it looks pretty different from the IM plan out of the box so I just mostly wanted to confirm what I see is what we are looking for in the next few weeks. Talk with you soon.
Thanks Patrick! One question I forgot to ask is that I assume I am still supposed to do the big day in week 11 and the two RR as outlined, correct? With that in mind, I wanted to start planning on what I should do in the next few weeks as I have a vacation coming up where we will leave 7/10 in the early AM and get back late afternoon on 7/19. The 11th is when I would have been scheduled to do my big day. Also for that time I am going to be gone, I may bring my bike (not sure if the wife will approve, but we will see) and time will not be of the most free item. I wanted to get your thoughts on how to make sure I keep things rolling through that. As always, thanks!
One last thing, lava pants. I have a pair but haven't used them much because it felt a bit like cheating. It does line me up much more like I swim in a wetsuit, so I was wondering if I should be using them more now. Or should it largely just be a "my legs are shelled, get the swim done" type of tool?
The lava pants are great for the swim after a tough run session or if you are beat. Quality IM swims (wetsuit friendly) are 80% position and shoulders/back. No sense in swimming with all that drag when you are shelled, especially as you are already a pretty solid swimmer!
The running on vacation, I want you active every day but rather than one long run that week I want you to do two long runs of 90' each...separated by at least a day...ideally two days. That will allow us to sneak in a bit more running while you aren't biking, etc!