Home Coaching Forum 🧢

Scott Giljum's Micro thread

1235711

Comments

  • P,
    I updated the spreadsheet. Basically plugged in Lou, included Steelhead (though I don't know if it works from a timing perspective or if I need it to progress) as well as TOC and a 50k. On the 50k, if it doesn't make sense, tell me and I am probably ok dropping it out. It may line up a bit close to TOC camp. I would like to be in good shape for TOC on the bike and am not sure if I can pull that together with the rest I will need after the 50k and the time to build up the bike. Let me know your thoughts on that.

    And as long as I am dropping in, just an update. Things continue to progress. My power numbers on the bike have been climbing, not huge, but decent gains. My run volume seems good at 30 miles or so. I imagine I can put some more in, but don't want to risk it right now. Basically been trying to play it smart. And I have added one day of yoga to help with the hips and the like.

    Basically P at this point I feel pretty good and am feeling like I can get back in the game with a good plan to work and build back to where I was (and beyond I hope). As always, thanks for your guidance. Lastly, I did want to say that I am more than comfortable with you being as candid with me as needed. I agree that we have a good relationship, and I promise, you won't hurt my feelings if you need to point something out I am missing. Thanks!
  • Right back at you in that doc. See the early OS with room for a bit more running pre 50k....and then some time for a bit more riding to TOC. Give me some feedback...

    For the Run Durability now, I don't want to change very much off of your basic week....30 miles a week is GREAT...10 weeks of THAT is AWESOME.
  • P, I looked at the spreadsheet and I think it should put me where I would want to be for each of the early season pieces (50k and TOC). Looks like I am already in RDP mode! I know you said not change much, but any changes to my current week set up, or any kind of building you want done, let me know.

    Also it looks like we have a big gap in the middle after TOC. Would it make sense to try to find a 70.3 then instead of steelhead? With it sitting in the middle of the IM training set up, I was wondering if it would be a better way to go. I would have to look to see what would fit, but thought that might make more sense.
  • what you identify a race that could fill that gap, and will see how you do. Right now I just want you to repeat the week that you run for a little bit, ideally we will see some of the speeds drop and the power go up as you adapt. Those are both important markers but not something to chase just something to let happen.

    putting the finishing touches on an ultra money resource page that I'll be able to share with you soon!

    ~ Coach P
  • It looks like Madison, Muncie, or Racine are the most likely from a location and time perspective that would fall in that June July timeframe I am looking at.

    As for my standard week (at least right now), my power has increased to about the mid 230s and my times on the run have started to drop, though that is more likely due to dipping temps (finally) than super fitness, but I have been feeling better on the runs either way. I will keep at it.

    I look forward to the ultra resource page.
  • Let me know if any of those sell out early enough that you want to act on it!
  • I figured you were in Kona last week (maybe still, not sure) and I have no worries about any of those races selling out. Even if they do, not a big deal to me. Basically they are filler it would seem, and we might be better served with another big bike week/camp type week in Lou, etc. I would actually probably rather spend my $'s that way all things being equal.

    I have also thought about starting to change up my weekly routine just a little, but wanted your input. I was basically thinking of a week like so:
    M - Swim over lunch (I plan to start very slow/short with this until I get myself back into water mode. I fully anticipate this will suck for a little while).
    T - Bike, 2x10 in the morning, short run in the afternoon/evening
    W - Run in the morning, maybe swim at lunch
    R - Same as Tuesday
    F - Run in the morning
    Sat - 40 mile bike, quick brick run
    Sun - Long run

    I am trying to make sure I only add a bit at a time to avoid over cooking it. At this point, it would basically be adding in a couple swims of no more than 2k, starting around 1500 or so just to get back in the water. I was thinking of adding it because my legs feel a bit worn coming off the weekend and a swim sometimes helps relieve that. Also, if I start back, once a week is not enough typically for me to get back in any type of groove with it and it just feels awkward every time. I will also do some core stuff each night. I am thinking planks one night, push ups the next with fire hydrants and some stretching every night. Let me know what you think.
  • I agree, I'd rather have you got the training of the course is a better alternative to simply spending money on a race. It's not like you need a race to get better racing at this point. image

    I am okay with the changes to your week, however I still want to be mindful of your schedule. As you blinded up right now, you have two days on Tuesday Wednesday Thursday and I would like to limit those as much as possible given we aren't that serious right now. Here's my suggestion:

    M - Swim over lunch.
    T - Bike, 2x10 in the morning, short treadmill run right after.
    W - Run in the morning.
    R - Same as Tuesday
    F - Run in the morning, optional swim lunch.
    Sat - 40 mile bike, quick brick run
    Sun - Long run

    Let me know if I just made up an imaginary treadmill!
  • As the Giljum compound is currently configured, there is still no treadmill, so that part would not work. I am trying to balance a few things as well. I have been targeting right around 30 miles a week, and reducing what I am doing would cut into that. Also, assuming my schedule plays nice, I don't mind the break over lunch for a quick run. I have typically done it as Tuesday or Thursday, not both, if that makes it better or worse. Let me know what you think.

    Also just a few notes that may be relevant to things as we move forward:
    1. For the last six weeks my time biking vs running has been almost exactly spit down the middle. No big takeaway here I guess other than balance really does do the body good.
    2. My 2x10's have crept up as expected. I started around the mid 220's and am now in the mid to high 230's with a couple weeks where I have been in the low 240's. Also my NP on my longer ride on Saturdays has climbed from around 200 to 216 last week. I am basically thinking this might start to peak a bit before or (hopefully) right at the time to go to the OS so the 30/30's start to push up the roof.
    3. My long run is up to 10 miles at this point and my run times are ok but not quite as fast I was hoping to see by now. Basically progress has been a bit slower on this end, but there is still progress. To be clear I am not focusing/pushing the pace side of things. I am basically just running and looking at the data after the fact.

    Last question; assuming cost was not an issue but time still played a factor, how many times would it make sense to make the trip to Lou to get familiar with the course?
  • How about this adjustment: 

    • M - Swim over lunch. 
    • T - Bike, 2x10 in the morning. Lunch run. 
    • W - Run in the morning ( a bit longer ). 
    • R - Bike, 2x10 in the morning. Lunch run. 
    • F - Run in the morning, optional swim lunch. 
    • Sat - 40-mile bike, quick brick run 
    • Sun - Long run 

    That should cover the bases. Stick with the program for now re the 2x10s and the runs. You'll see gains UP TO 12 weeks. No need to force it. When you hit the same numbers for 4 sessions in a row, then we adjust. 

    Regarding the recon for Louisville, I would say week 15-ish, for that three day bike binge...lots of course loops!!!

    Outside of that, you _could_ do 2 weeks to go As well but that's not as critical as riding the coarse super tired on back-to-back days. I guess if you're looking for brownie points I would plan on going a little bit earlier as well? Call it 10 weeks before is another bike volume pop.

    That would give you bike volume on 10 weeks out and five weeks out with an option for one more should you feel like a peak performance is in the cards.

  • P,
    Quick update as I have adjusted my week based on your last post. First the run. As the temps have dropped and I have been able to be consistent for a few months now, my times per mile have dropped again to where I would expect (sub 8 min/mile). For that effort my HR has been around 140-145. That is a bit hot compared to when I was in IM shape/targets then, but it feels very manageable and I am good with it. The plan there (unless you tell me otherwise) is to just keep on keeping on with nothing fancy sprinkled in (like intervals). Maybe something that will be added during the OS.

    The bike has likely peaked based on your last message. I seem to have hit a point where I can consistently hit high 230's/low 240's but don't seem to be able to break through on the top end. We can change it up now or just roll like this for a month knowing that there will be Z5 work in the OS in a month. I also think if I really worked it, I could squeeze out a bit more as my approach has been to set the floor on my watch at 225 and just peddle as I feel keeping it always above that. I know if I push that number up, I will likely see an increase, but I haven't messed with it yet as I didn't want to blow myself up (which can happen if I get too aggressive with that strategy). My HR goes up, but not to the "I'm totally going to puke before the 10 minutes is up" type of HR.

    The swim at this point is starting to feel a bit more comfortable but still not great. I have been focusing on form (rolling from side to side and head placement seem to be the two biggest things I work on right now). I'm not very worried about this, but just wanted to let you know where I sit.

    Let me know any thoughts you have. Also, I know in the past couple of years we have looked at an enhanced OS. I would be interested in that again as I know I am in a much better place this year than last. Let me know what you think. Thanks!
  • Thanks so much for the update! I'm pretty excited about where you're run for this is that right now. And I agree with you, there is no need to do anymore between now and the house season.The value of the run training right now is the consistency– The speed will come!

    I am on the fence right now about the bike. Honestly I would almost rather you don't look at the power number. I think you are mentally in the space where you sit on 225 but I'd rather you do your warm-up and then just ride. Maybe it's just with heart rate? Or maybe you just ride by feel. For me that would mean covering up my monitor with a towel or something and then I would just ride watch should show or something on my laptop. We don't need to be locked in a box right now staring at superhard FTP numbers that we're trying to create. That is for the OutSeason®. But I do want you to ride without your normal data stream just to see what gets us. Let me know what you think on that.

    The swim is all about consistency and let's just keep it rolling. Remember between the three sports you're almost the traffic again exhibition point:-) zero expectations here other than just the consistency of getting into your pool.

    So overall I said we keep the same plan moving forward as I still believe there are games to be made. The only real modification I have is for the bike sessions, see above. As for a modified Alfie's and let's talk about that in another two weeks… Still waiting to see where this work get us.

    ~ Coach P
  • P,

    Just a clarification on the bike. I have set that 225 number so that I have a bar to stay over. At this point, if I am putting in effort for 10 minutes, I will be way over it. I don't look at the display while I am doing it (except to see how many more minutes I have!). If I start to feel like I am pressing to hit numbers, I will back off but I wanted to get some of my power back, which it looks like I have. More to gain, but just letting it roll up more naturally than forced like I would have in the past.

    I also forgot to mention, I am using training peaks if you want access to that.  I am very novice with it in that I haven't spent much time playing with the system, so you will have to tell me how to do that. It also might not matter much at this point, but as I build (fingers crossed things are back to normal) it may be more relevant.  Just let me know.

  • SG, I think we are on the same page re the bike. Get some tape so you can't see watts...I just want you riding, quality, for 10 minutes. I don't care what the watts say...you can use a kitchen timer, smart phone, etc. image

    Training peaks access is fine...use the red chat circle to get me your login and password so I can save them for when we do have a check in....thanks!!!

    Have a great weekend!!!

    ~ Coach P
  • Got it on the bike. I think we are all good.

    I had one other question. If I wanted to work in some trail running instead of road running, how best would I do that (or should I just not for the moment)? The trade off becomes time vs miles, at least for me. I can put together more miles at a faster clip on the road, like pretty much everyone else I would assume. Should I just set a time goal and be good with that? Or should I just pass on the trails for now and live on the roads?
  • Trails baby! This is about time on your feet and having fun...if you can get some trail time in each week, do it. Just watch the steep / angry stuff. image

    Jealous!

    ~ Coach P
  • P,
    Quick update since I am writing - basically things are going well. I rolled my ankle pretty bad last week, but things are relatively fine. I can still run with a bit of pain, but it will work itself out.

    My real reason for writing is a swimming question. Since I have been back in the pool, I have noticed that my effort seems pretty high. Nothing stupid, but just harder than I would have thought. I was tired this Monday, so after doing some 100's, I decided to go with the pull buoy. I was able to rip off 3 300's with a lot less effort, leading me to the question of what is it in my form that is wrong that the pull buoy corrects so magically? I assume I am somehow "dragging" my legs. I don't feel like my head is that far out of place pushing the legs down, but maybe that is it. I guess I wanted to get some suggestions so that I can play around with it and see what I can do to correct. Either that or I will just always swim with the buoy!
  • Scott, sorry abot the ankle. Take your time, no rush to get back at all. Smart on that one...

    As for the swim, I hear you on the Pull Buoy.

    I know your form is good; my guess is that you aren't really reaching out / rotating under water. That extension is what tips your upper body "over" and being short (not rolling to reach from your shoulder / lat) will do the opposite.

    By any chance, are you also working on increasing your cadence? I personally have found that to cause problems...let me know!!
  • P, not working on cadence. I have a feeling as I get tired, my arms get a bit shorter as I try to make it to the next breath. I am going to do some drill work for a couple sessions and figure it will sort me out. Thanks again.
  • Okay that's good to know. Fatigue isn't the factor, then it might be worthwhile either breaking those efforts into shorter repeats, or backing the pace down more.

    Your options will be taking at 200 and making it 2 x 100, Or even 4 x 50. I'll take even a two second rest of the wall, Is that can make a substantial difference.

    If technique is the name of the game for you right now, then you can intersperse technique into the regular swimming. I personally like to do 50 drill and then 50 swim. You can expand upon that and do 50 drill / 100 swim for a 150. That seems to be a nice balance of both locking in the action you want to achieve and then integrating it right away into your actual stroke.

    Please keep me posted!
  • Sounds good. I will use the 100 swim, 50 drill to try and get myself feeling a bit more comfortable.

    I also just wanted to check before I roll into the OS if there are any alterations I need to make or should I just roll with the stated plan?
  • Deal re the swimming!!

    As for the OS, I am good with you rolling into the stated plan. I would suggest you keep your current FTP interval duration. Continue to follow that until the intervals in the outseason exceed it and you can start moving up.

    That and making sure you're consistent with your runs. Feel free to map out how you need to adjust the else season week in order to accommodate your swimming and I'll look at the schedule.

    Otherwise I think the stated plan is a great place for you to be right now!

    Happy Turkey!
  • P, as far as adjustments to add in the swimming, I guess I am looking at it the basic week with swimming on MWF (two of the three depending on work schedule) with one session being drill focused (50 drill, 100 swim) and the other just a swim set (prolly my favorite set of 10x150 or 200).

    As the bike sessions build, I'm pretty sure I can manage the 12 minute variety, but when it gets to the 20 minute, that is likely too much for me. Would splitting that up into 2x10 for each 1x20 get the job done?

    And after the super secret OS guide you sent me last year, I was hoping you had something like that cooked up. And maybe you do, but maybe I'm not there for that at this point. I will trust the guidance. Have a great turkey day.
  • Scott -

    Okay, time to get back to work after all that turkey!!!

    I am totally fine with you swimming as you have outlined. Especially if there's no pressure for you to get it done, meaning that is secondary to your work/schedule. I would like some quality swimming but it doesn't need to be super hard just yet. If you were going to swim hard, I wouldn't want to be longer than a 50. So you can break it down into a bunch of 50s, or you could do your favorite swim workout where the first 50 of every 150 is fast. Given your schedule for next year, I don't think you really need to start swimming consistently fast until the end of January or early February.

    What I meant by the bike was that you stick with 12 minutes regardless of what the early OS workout says. As week four or five has longer intervals, you start moving your 12 minutes up to match that. This will give you a few more weeks at twelve minutes and will eventually challenge you according to the normal out season progression. I think you personally have more to give in those 12 minutes sessions, and don't need to go longer just yet. If you prefer to stick at that 12-minute duration moving forward, I will be okay with you breaking the total FTP time down for those training sessions into digestible chunks. Lets talk about that when you get there.

    I have not updated that guide for this season, but the majority of it still holds true. I am hesitant to give it to you yet because I still want consistent healthy training first. I really want you to get through December and January, or at least half of January, in a healthy state before we start adding on. Make sense?
  • It does make sense. I was actually looking back on strava to see how many weeks in a row it has been where I have been pretty consistent and it looks like this all started around the beginning of August, which gives a good 4 months. I do feel pretty good, outside of the usual niggles. I did look over the doc you shared last year to see what I realistically thought about it. I am not worried about pulling off the first block, though the first big week looks just that (big!). I figure that will be in January and may be time for a good volume pop. We will see. And I am good with the bike and the swim guidance.
  • Scott...cool. I'd call your official start the week of 9/12...up until the it was a few fits/starts getting back into your groove...so call it three months.

    I say you can go January on that modified OS, but push that first big week to the end of Jan vs beginning, so we have a bit more time.

    The ever conservative coach P
  • P,
    OS started and so far so good. The Saturday ride is more ftp work than I've done in one workout in a while! All good though. Running feels good and with a touch of z4 work, I'm happy where that's at (though if you have some ideas to make me faster, just let me know!). I still have Ben rolling at 30-35 miles per week.

    I do have two questions. First on the bike. As always, I want to see the biggest gains possible. Oddly enough, the z5 stuff isn't a big deal for me, at least at 30" intervals. I think it is the mental deal of how long I need to sit in one spot and push it (30" is easier than 12 minutes even at lower watts). For the ftp work, should I be pushing hard and feeling like death/contemplate not finishing the sets, or is a touch easier the better approach? I know this may sound like a dumb question, but as I start to try to push it, I start to think that getting every last watt each time is the goal. Since that has lead to some overcooked feelings in the past, I have been rethinking how I approach it this year with maximum gain the end goal.

    Now for swimming. I am committed to the drill/swim combo we discussed. If I am swimming twice a week or more, am I better off doing that same workout again or doing something else that will give me a better bridge to the longer distance swims that will be coming in the future? I guess it is a question of technique with some fitness again or some straight fitness work.

    As always, thanks for your time. BTW, how are you health wise? I see you're swimming a bit but looks like the others are on hiatus. Everything ok?
  • Scott, thanks for checking in.



    I am glad the OS is treating you well...as always, 4 weeks before we start thinking any changes....  image

    For the bike...I want your best effort but we don't want you to cook your self. I dug into to see what a Sept FTP session looked like vs this weeks 3 x 10. Check it out: 

    So your FTP HR is typically in the 160s...anytime you get sustained over 165 you run into issues...and in this case, despite the rest your HR literally never came down. Even if the timing is off (lag), the rest you got between #2 and #3 wasn't the same as #1 to #2. So I say that you plan on getting "X" minutes of HR rest. 

    So if this workout called for 2', then your 2' clock doesn't START until the HR gets below 140. This might mean a bit more rest but I think it's what's going to put you in jeopardy. 

    Re the run, I think you still need more foundational work here. The miles are good, but I want you to keep it locked in where you are as you continue to push yourself on the bike!

    As for me, I am resting up. My knee started bugging me at the end of OCT. Shut it down with rest...but no gains. I got an MRI but there's really nothing to be seen (apparently). I might have a cyst behind the knee otherwise specialist 1 says nothing surgery worthy. Waiting to find #2....tired of waiting.  Focusing on that swim for right now! image
  • Sorry to hear about the knee. I can only imagine how frustrating that has to be on top of all the other issues you have had for the last year. Hopefully it will all start to clear up and you can get back going again.

    As for your comments on my stuff, I am good with adding in a bit more rest on the bike intervals. Going into the third set Tuesday I knew I was still a bit worked up, but I had not checked the HR to see. A hair more rest will likely do some good.

    As for the run, I want you to write this down, this is one of the few times I am not asking permission to run more. I am good with where I am at as long as you are.

    Last question, re the swim. If I am swimming twice a week or more, am I better off doing the same drill/swim workout again or doing something else that will give me a better bridge to the longer distance swims that will be coming in the future? I guess it is a question of technique with some fitness again or some straight fitness work.

    Have a great holiday. Feels weird not to be gearing up for JVC this year.
  • I hear you on no JVC, but it will be a better play in the long run (your fitness, my business). image

    I'll be looking for those bikes...I think your next breakthrough is there (great consecutive work piling up) but a tweak in rest will get you there.

    As for the run...yay. NOTED. image

    Swim, I am okay with you mixing drills into longer sets? That would let you swim longer without thinking of time. Say, 500 with 25 drill every 150? That would get you 75 drill in a 50 and allow you to refocus on form cues / rest a bit as you build it up?

    So I'd start a bit shorter...like 300s...and drill 25 / 100 for example.

    Deal?

    ~ Coach P
Sign In or Register to comment.