Hey P, the run this time back is quite different than the last because my general fitness level is much higher. Everything feels pretty good like I could do much longer runs, except my leg would protest later.
As as to how it has felt day to day, the first couple days off were pretty sore still but not too bad. Between the exercises and rest I was feeling it a lot less. At this point I still know it's there from time to time but mostly it's good. I'm not sure how long I would have to wait so that i basically never notice it. I'm hoping I can run some and keep healing at the same time as long as I don't ramp too fast. Basically at this point it has more that vampire bite feel than the I'm causing real damage here that it was before.
P, So I write today as I start to think about post-TOC and what I should be doing with myself during that time. A few notes first before I dive in there that I think are relevant. First, the Achilles is doing better though if I run on back to back days it tells me that was a bad idea. I am hoping that by continuing the exercises combined with little running next week when at camp should help sort it out. Also, I started using zwift for trainer sessions and ended up with an FTP bump as reported by zwift to 238. Lastly, because I shipped my road bike, I rode my tt bike for the first time in a long time. It took some getting used to and I have a ways to go to get back my former comfort level but even just the 3.5 hour ride saw improvement.
So, with all that said, what do I do with myself when I get back? I figure the first part of the week back will be recovery but then what? I don't have another race until Lou, so in theory I could just drop into the 20 week plan. I know I would have to promise to not get too wound up too soon and all, but I'm not worried about that. I was really looking to see if I would be better served doing something else? Let me know what you think. Thanks!
@Scott Giljum - hold on, had to add you in Zwift..nice work brother!!!
First, I really recommend you don't run during the TOC. Ride it out, and ice the shit out of your achillies EVERY NIGHT.
Second, the TOC starts on Day 3...so no over achieving early...you'll ruin the rest of your trip.
Third, LOTS OF PICTURES PLEASE. Bike trip of a lifetime.
When you get back you are going to be tired. Then super fit....but not necessarily RUN READY. So we'll still have to work that back in. I'd like to see you bike shorter and harder once recovered, but really be gradual with the runs. No Back To Backs please..don't do that!
P, while still in survival mode here at TOC, I'm starting to think about what comes next. The first week back I'm thinking of rest, some swim, maybe an easy run in the first few days. What I'm really trying to determine is what am I doing after the first week back when I assume I will be fairly recovered and ready to capitalize on what I have done to myself. Is there a plan you suggest I drop into or create something custom? I'm good with shorter high intensity like you mentioned probably with something on the weekend that is longer as weather allows. Basically, what do I do next is my big question.
As as for the tour and lessons learned. First Rob Sabo, Kori Martini, Jonathan Rothberg and I made a pretty good group and were able to largely stay together. Rob has a huge engine. As for personal lessons, I found I was undergeared for the really steep climbs/I'm a climbing wimp. On the less steep grades (probably 8% or less as a guess) though I felt strong and had no issues. That seemed to be a sweet spot for me. Also descending was pretty awesome as long as it wasn't too hairpiny. Lastly I guess, is that I'm super jealous of the locals because I have nothing like this to ride at home! Hope all is well and as always thanks!
@Scott Giljum -- the first and most important step is that you rest. In order for you to process the work that you've done it has to get through the system. So, there's a great post on this in the general discussions form about the value of the Blue Ridge Camp. Takes about two two weeks for it to manifest itself, during which you have to be patient.
That's right, rest now to be stronger in a little while. I would recommend two days off including your travel day. Then you are free to swim and run in the 30 minute range as much as you want. Ideally you would get out again for a long ride this weekend but no real goals there, just for Time, perhaps in the aero bars if that's your thing.
The following week because her to make some adjustments around your training, but first let me know how you are recovering. Those really steep climbs are just killer. It's not just the gearing, it's also the watts per kilogram and the innate ability to suffer... Unique intersection of those items makes for a pro cyclist. The rest of us just set our quads on fire!!!!
P, I took the day off on the flight home, largely due to delayed flights but it worked. I also took yesterday off to get the two days of rest. Otherwise I have done three shorter runs and one swim with a swim today. I am thinking I will get back on the bike tomorrow, but no goals and no pushing at this point. I still feel tired, though more likely from lots of work stuff since I've been home. My legs feel pretty good and a touch more sleep should sort me out. The long weekend will be a good deal for that. Let me know what else you want to know and we can set up the go forward. Thanks!
@Scott Giljum - so far, so good! There's nothing wrong with being extra busy at work, we're taking this time. You're going to need time to recover.
As I look at data from other people from the tour, the Fitness is there but the workload is high – you can see it in the heart rate. So while you can do a work out, please do it judiciously.
P, quick questions and a thought based on schedule. First if you want this info in the other thread, just tell me. Looking at the week you laid out, just a couple questions. First, when you say long swim, what are you thinking distance-wise? Also on the Thursday ride, I looked over the races on zwift and none are very long. Instead I've cherry picked from some of the set workouts they have. With the Thursday ride, does it matter if I'm doing FTP type work or VO2 type work? Lastly (at least I think) am I now on the tri bike exclusively or still use the roadie?
Second, this week I get sent out of town for work leaving Thursday in the morning and getting back Sunday in the afternoon. So since I won't have a pool and haven't decided if the bike is coming or not, I was going to shift things around some. First is switch Tuesday and Thursday because I can likely sneak in a quick run before we roll (after the bike of course). Next switch Friday and Wednesday to get the swim. Lastly would be what to do Saturday. I'm planning a quick run before work. If I bring my bike I will try to ride in the afternoon. Sunday maybe a quick run before we head home. I might bike when I get home but not sure. The other caveat is that would put a few days running in a row so I will be cognizant of how the Achilles feels and try to avoid too much. What do you think? Thanks P!
@Scott Giljum - Good questions, happy to help. I edited the thread to show that the long swim should be between three and 4000 yards, white in that 3.5 range.
I don't want you riding long on Thursday. You can do your own warm up or warm down, but it's the main set – the race – that is the most important to me. So you can make it up by going longer before or after, but it's really how hard you go within the race that will make the biggest difference. Remember, you have already done some good volume on the bike and additional volume in California. Volume is not a priority right now.
I would like you on the road bike for the weekday Races, on the tribe bike for the weekends. This is just for the next month/month and a half, we can change from there.
From your description of the trip, it sounds like you would only be able to ride on Saturday afternoon. Unless you can stick the bike on the back of your car and not have to do any admin with it, I say don't bring it and instead leave it on the trainer so you can do an easy spin out on Sunday night when you're back.
I am OK with the frequent running, you just have to listen to your body like you promised. Remember, any 30 minute session counts towards keeping your consistency. I don't need flash at this point in the year, we just need consistency. Stepping away from the bike for a few days is not the worst thing that could happen to you right now!
P, running question. And I preface by saying I know you're not a Doc. When I run, I can feel the Achilles, esp on the back to back days or if I go over 5 or six miles. I haven't dealt with this much before so I'm looking for advice. A few thoughts/questions. Am I better to pause the running for now or just do less and hope the stretching, etc, will work it out and then add more. I don't want to give up miles but I also don't want to screw up my Achilles and be out for a while. Also, do insoles help with this type of deal? I've never used them but if it helps I will try anything. Let me know what you think. I'm willing to push through but I also know this could be more problematic than some of the other issues I've just pushed through. Thanks P.
@Scott Giljum- Sounds like you have some good parameters for how to manage the run. Don't go back to back days, and don't run longer than 5 miles for a while. This means you can get in 20 miles a week and a basic week, while not exciting is certainly not bad either.
If I were dealing with this issue this is what I would do:
*I would get into see my local physical therapist and have him start treating you right away, twice a week for the first two weeks once a week for four weeks after that. They would give me exercises and help accelerate the recovery process.
*I would be relentless about my warm-up and my post run self-care/icing.
* I would seek out alternate modalities where the Achilles doesn't bother me. the elliptical sucks, but if I can get 90 minutes on the thing without Achilles pain I would be on it right now.
* Tuesday saying I would fill any missed run time with more swimming or core/strength work that would help me improve the mobility of my leg and alleviate the load on my Achilles.
P, I hope your vacation is going well. I just met with the doctor again about the Achilles. Here is the gist. It isn't healing like he had hoped with what we are doing. He said more aggressive therapy (not a surprise and not a problem) and then gave me a choice. Since it isn't healing and has a sizable buildup on the tendon, To fully heal, I should shut down the "offending activity (running)" for 8 weeks and then start small, etc. Or I could take three weeks off, hope it all will hold together and be happy with just finishing. And then I need to shut it down for long term and do all the therapy and stuff again. Bottom line is that if I keep up like this it won't heal and will work toward rupture.
So I'm trying to figure out next steps. I could try the three week option and hope it responds with a long winter to follow if it works. Or I could shut it down now and just let it heal fully and try again next year or beyond. If I went that route I would try to become Scott the cyclist since I need work there anyway. Basically neither option is what I want (total understatement) but those are the choices. I'm processing as we speak but would love your thoughts. Have a great 4th!
@Scott Giljum - thanks for the update. Well the news is in what you would hoped, I have never met a constraint I didn't like.
Making decisions is one of the hardest things that we do as athletes, and nine times out of 10 we make the wrong ones. Having to focus and make discrete choices is one of the best ways to improve. Given our own way, we typically choose choices that seem good at the time but have plenty of consequences. This decision is fundamentally different.
I guess it depends on how you feel about "just finishing." It is 100% your choice. There are plenty of people who do races just to do them, but that doesn't fit my personal make up. I want to be as ready as I can be on race day to do my best… And I am never going to race if it means I could suffer a massive setback (that I knew about before racing).
I am not saying you can't do a race just to do it, I'm just saying you have to evaluate whether or not that meets your criteria of success for this year. As your coach, my vote is that you shut it down and begin the process of getting it right. Missing a race doesn't mean the year is a wash, you have done a ton of great work and I have seen you get stronger on the bike every weekend In Zwift. This could very well be the push you needed to spend more time on the bike.
P, The choice you mention (can I race just to finish and feel satisfied) is what I've been wrestling with. I've come up with lots of reasons why I could (course recon for future years, etc) but pretty much all of them don't hold water when I think about it from the perspective that I can't cut it loose and actually race it. That's not how I'm built. So I'm going to likely bail on the race. I guess we can stop the elite deal. I will likely start a solid bike focus and see where that goes. Two years in a row now, getting old is tough. Any suggestions on becoming a bike monster are welcome. Thanks P.
@Scott Giljum - I hear you I'm getting old, but it's all just part of the game! The challenge with aging is just that the rules of the game or constantly changing. We just have to get better at navigating them as we go.
I will disable that a Elite EN stuff this week.
In the meantime, I suggest you reach out to the team in the general discussion forum with your bike monster question. There are plenty of examples of athletes taking large blocks of time to refocus and / or recover.
Personally, I have done this quite a bit. IMMT will be my first race in 21 months. I don't know what is less ready, and my body or all of my equipment! I will pay attention to your thread, and certainly contribute as well… We might be able to use some of what folks give you as guidance is the foundation for the rest of this year.
P, Just an update on where I am/what's going on. Nothing in this requires a quick response as an FYI. First, after seeing the doc, I am off to PT. No real surprise in what I was told. The Achilles is likely the result of taking on too much load because other parts are either weak (some parts of the core) or have "limited" mobility (hips and ankles). So my knees are good, which is nice. Otherwise it all might need work! So I am working on all those parts while the Achilles hopefully is healing with the run time off. No real timeline laid out yet, but I don't really need one at this point.
As for training, the focus is the bike. On the side, I will likely swim a couple times a week and some aqua jogging to keep some of that all still working so starting to run again won't be quite as rough. That is all secondary though right now. I have been zwifting a lot, with a focus on the races for Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. That is two fold since, a. it's fun (in a sick sort of way, though I know you get that) and b. it gives that threshold work in an manner I can tolerate. I have been either riding in or on Zwift on Saturday and then the ABP ride on Sunday. I have been working myself into basically riding most days at least in some fashion. On the Monday and Friday days (if I ride), it has been more just a ride (if I feel like it I will go for sprints or KOM's, if not, no biggie, otherwise z2-3 type time) to get the legs back.
Going forward, I have been thinking about doing this style for a bit. I was thinking trying to do some sort of multiday ride to finish a block of this type of work. Any thoughts on that (or what would be a good tour like that)? Again, no real rush. The target is a bigger bike. I feel like I'm getting stronger (funny how that happens when it is the ONLY thing you are doing), so that is good but I would love a true big engine allowing me to stay with the big boys. I know that will take a lot of work, but that's where I need it.
Good luck with your race! Your fitness looks good! Hopefully it will be a nice welcome back to racing.
@Scott Giljum - I have seen you all over Zwift and it's been awesome. How fortunate are we at this technology exists to keep us sane while we manage other challenges? There is only so much damage you can do yourself on the bike, So I like your overall approach.
My only caveat to use keep track of your numbers for those races/water efforts. If you start to see an overall downward trend in the power you are able to sustain for two, five, 10 minute segments then perhaps it's time for a little bit of a break break. That would just mean something like three days of no cycling as you let the legs come back. It will be pretty quick because you're not running very much.
When you say finish for the florist on the bike, are you referring to a real world cycling expedition? Either way I would take a look at what your total weekly volume has been for the six weeks leading up to that bike block.
For example if your weekly mileage has been 200 miles, then you can get in up to 300 miles (long, OT hard!) in a bike block of 3-4 days. The hardest part of this exercise will be forcing yourself to keep the intensity down as compared to how you normally ride on your computer! You can give me more details on that later.
Swimming is totally fine and you can do that whenever you want. I like the idea of 10 minutes of aqua jogging afterwards as part of your mobility/maintenance plan.
I am unsurprised to hear that ankle mobility and hip mobility are potential causes here. It is something we all deal with, especially with how we function during the workday and as we age. You might want to revisit the thought of having a standing desk as that could be the biggest single change you make from the total time perspective on a daily basis. At the very least you can commit to not sitting for long periods of time.
Hopefully your PT give you some good basic exercises to do. It will be nice if they could give you some benchmarks as well, in terms of range of motion now and range of motion at the end of your PT fees to see if there has been a Delta. Ankle mobility is a super tough one to approve it may come down to better shoe choices. Let me know what they say!
P, First, good luck this weekend! You look ready and I'm sure you will have a great day. I wanted to just shoot you a quick update since I have reached another point along the way. I have been working with the PT for almost 2 months at this point. We have been working a lot on ankle and hip flexibility. We were measuring range on the ankle and was getting up to 10 degrees of flex. Given that I started at 2-3, that was pretty good. The PT cleared me to try the elliptical for a bit. I did two days (with a rest day in between) of 20 minutes or so. The bad news is hurt pretty bad later in that day. When I told that feedback to the PT it confirmed what I thought, this isn't good news. Basically the evaluation is to go back to the doc, with the thought of an MRI likely on both the ankle/Achilles area as well as the left hip. I have that appointment scheduled, two weeks from today.
The summary is that I still have no idea when I will be able to run again. Pretty big bummer, but more time to bike I guess. Again, not sure I even have any questions at this point. I am basically just playing around until I get a better idea on if/when I can start doing other things again. I will put in some work on the bike, but things are a bit less structured right now. Again, just an update. Good luck again, go kill it!
@Scott Giljum - as it is hard as hard as it is to believe, "this too shall pass." I like how you're using the bike to keep yourself fit and engaged in the meantime. And your dedication to the PT is phenomenal… There is no way that 3° of ankle flexion just going to let you do anything as a runner. But 10 degrees is a nice confirmed improvement.
When you say you were hurting the next day, I'm not sure if you mean your Achilles or if you mean your total body. How do you been doing anything else in the meantime or not? In other words, did you just jump on the elliptical and hit it after only riding your bike?
Plse se set a call with me post tremblant...maybe close to those MRIs so we can discuss.
I will set up the call in a few weeks P but just to answer your question on hurting. Basically it was the same pain in the same place (Achilles and bottom of the calf) and in the same way it did when I ran before. Basically no change after the time off and PT. I know this too shall pass, but when all that effort is for naught it's a bummer. It wil all sort itself out I'm sure. Have a great race and talk to you in a few weeks.
@Scott Giljum - Roger that. I totally hear you on the frustration. But you did improve that ankle range of motion which is massive. And that's a project you should continue to work on as well as hip range of motion.
If you haven't already it might be worthwhile starting a thread in the entry for him or you can connect with Leigh Boyle. I am working to re-integrated her with the team in terms of support that she might be able to add a third perspective to solving this problem. If you have a link of that form already discussed it to be here and I'll make sure that she sees it.
@Coach Patrick , before any of my story, I wanted to once again wish you congratulations on your race and KQ. I know you had some dark days on if you would ever be able to be there again, and it is very heartening to see you re-enter beast mode after all that. I am not just BS-ing you, but the grace with which you first handled the potentially devastating news combined with such an incredible comeback is truly inspiring. Thank you for being that example.
Just another quick update on where things are at with me. I went to the doctor and heard some of the words that are never good to hear, "Wow, you don't see this very often, come here and look at this (said to a resident)!" Now the story that leads up to this statement. I told the doctor about what hurts and where again, this time probably more specifically. First, I still have pain and some swelling in the Achilles that has not gone away after no running for almost 2 months. Also, I pointed out some pain/burning sensation on the outside and under my ankle that came when I was on the elliptical. He started to mess with some of the tendons there (I wish I could remember the name(s)) and when he had me push my foot out against resistance, he could feel a pop that happened every time. That is what brought on the comment. In case there was any doubt about it, he was certain he wanted an MRI on the whole ankle, possibly some of it while in motion (I didn't know that was possible). I get the MRI next week and hopefully will know more on that either by end of next week or likely the following. My fear is surgery of some kind, but I do tend toward the drama queen with injuries, so I will wait and see.
I also basically asked if we could do something to check out my left hip, so we got those x-rayed. I got fairly quick feedback. The x-ray showed I have osteoarthritis in both hips, the right is considered "mild" and the left is considered "moderate". I felt ok with that until I looked up the categories and saw the only one beyond moderate was severe. I will talk with the doctor further on what it means long term, but I have a few ideas already on what it means. First, I assume I won't be encouraged to run a ton (though I do wonder how much of the damage was caused by my rugby career vs just running and if that consideration might change the thought process some) and second, I have a feeling at some point in my life I will get the joy of a hip replacement. I was pretty sure that was going to happen anyway, now I have a little more confirmation. Anyway, basically the doctor visit and resulting tests so far have not given much good news, but I am better armed with what is going on and will be more so after the MRI. If surgery is the deal, I will just have to cross that bridge when we get there.
In the mean time, I'm not sure what the doctor did, but that ankle/Achilles area is pretty painful almost all the time now. I have largely stopped doing most of anything because it hurts. The doctor told me I could do what I could tolerate, so I may just have to harden up a bit, but that's where I'm at. Again, no real questions yet, and I will set up a call once I know more from the MRI, but figured I would pass on what I know.
@Scott Giljum - thank you for those words. As my friend and fellow injured triathlete, they mean a lot. We are all on some kind of journey and it can be both exciting and incredibly frustrating.
Man I hate it when the doctor says that. All of this is obviously out of your control, the upside is that you're gaining more clarity on your body and where you're at. It's never fun hearing that you have infrastructure that is lacking, but having a better define set of parameters can help us do more with what you've got.
It's hard to jump to conclusions right now given that we still only have 25% of the information. I assure you that your endurance career is not over, but I agree that it will likely be modified.
While all of this maybe rare, and certainly knew for you, you're not the first person in the house to deal with this. We have resources here to lean on and learn from as you continue to push forward.
I look forward to more news and to catching up with you soon.
PS – I agree, dial back the training sessions of all accountants until the pain is tolerable.
P, I just got a message from the doctor on the MRI. I haven't had a conversation directly yet, but it confirmed peroneal tendon subluxation. I'm being referred to an ortho surgeon. From what I read on it, I assume I'm likely headed to surgery and then a long recovery. I will know more once I talk to the surgeon, but I might have a lot of down time coming! I may get the vasa just so I can have something to do. Just part of the story right now. I will keep you posted.
@Coach Patrick I hope you have proceeded to eat a ton of calories after your race in Kona! It looked like a strong day for you. I figured I would just give you a quick update, non groupme version. A week ago I got the surgery on the peroneal tendons. The surgeon said (from what my wife tells me at least as I was still pretty looped) the ligament/sheath that held them down was torn and the tendons looked "upset". He reattached the tendons into the sheath where they belong and re-affixed the sheath. I was put in a cast and am non-weight bearing for two weeks (one more week to go!) and then I believe I get put in a boot for a month. After that, physical therapy and the long road back. Seeing everyone race gets my blood pumping, which tells me I still have the desire. Now I just need to give myself the time to heal and get back in the game. At some point in the process, I will also check with the doctor on the hip and see what his view on restrictions need to be, but I have time on that. Next year is a wild card, though I am thinking about a late half just to shake the rust off if nothing else. We will see. Again, great race at Kona, it was fun to follow.
Be sad. Be mad. Be frustrated. Scream. Cry. Sulk. When you wake up you will think it was just a nightmare only to realize it’s all too real. You will be angry and wish for the day back, the game back THAT play back. But reality gives nothing back and nor should you. Time to move on and focus on doing everything in your power to prepare for surgery, ask all the questions to be sure you understand fully the procedure so that you may visualize it in your subconscious while being operated on and better the chance of it’s success. Then focus on the recovery process day by day by day. It’s a long journey but if you focus on the mini milestones along the way you will find beauty in the struggle of doing simple things that prior to this injury were taken for granted. This will also mean that when you return you will have a new perspective. You will be so appreciative of being able to stand, walk, run that you will train harder than you ever have. You see the belief within you grow with each mini milestone and you will come back a better player for it. Best of luck to you on this journey my brother #mambamentality always.
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As as to how it has felt day to day, the first couple days off were pretty sore still but not too bad. Between the exercises and rest I was feeling it a lot less. At this point I still know it's there from time to time but mostly it's good. I'm not sure how long I would have to wait so that i basically never notice it. I'm hoping I can run some and keep healing at the same time as long as I don't ramp too fast. Basically at this point it has more that vampire bite feel than the I'm causing real damage here that it was before.
So I write today as I start to think about post-TOC and what I should be doing with myself during that time. A few notes first before I dive in there that I think are relevant. First, the Achilles is doing better though if I run on back to back days it tells me that was a bad idea. I am hoping that by continuing the exercises combined with little running next week when at camp should help sort it out. Also, I started using zwift for trainer sessions and ended up with an FTP bump as reported by zwift to 238. Lastly, because I shipped my road bike, I rode my tt bike for the first time in a long time. It took some getting used to and I have a ways to go to get back my former comfort level but even just the 3.5 hour ride saw improvement.
So, with all that said, what do I do with myself when I get back? I figure the first part of the week back will be recovery but then what? I don't have another race until Lou, so in theory I could just drop into the 20 week plan. I know I would have to promise to not get too wound up too soon and all, but I'm not worried about that. I was really looking to see if I would be better served doing something else? Let me know what you think. Thanks!
First, I really recommend you don't run during the TOC. Ride it out, and ice the shit out of your achillies EVERY NIGHT.
Second, the TOC starts on Day 3...so no over achieving early...you'll ruin the rest of your trip.
Third, LOTS OF PICTURES PLEASE. Bike trip of a lifetime.
When you get back you are going to be tired. Then super fit....but not necessarily RUN READY. So we'll still have to work that back in. I'd like to see you bike shorter and harder once recovered, but really be gradual with the runs. No Back To Backs please..don't do that!
~ Coach P
while still in survival mode here at TOC, I'm starting to think about what comes next. The first week back I'm thinking of rest, some swim, maybe an easy run in the first few days. What I'm really trying to determine is what am I doing after the first week back when I assume I will be fairly recovered and ready to capitalize on what I have done to myself. Is there a plan you suggest I drop into or create something custom? I'm good with shorter high intensity like you mentioned probably with something on the weekend that is longer as weather allows. Basically, what do I do next is my big question.
As as for the tour and lessons learned. First Rob Sabo, Kori Martini, Jonathan Rothberg and I made a pretty good group and were able to largely stay together. Rob has a huge engine. As for personal lessons, I found I was undergeared for the really steep climbs/I'm a climbing wimp. On the less steep grades (probably 8% or less as a guess) though I felt strong and had no issues. That seemed to be a sweet spot for me. Also descending was pretty awesome as long as it wasn't too hairpiny. Lastly I guess, is that I'm super jealous of the locals because I have nothing like this to ride at home! Hope all is well and as always thanks!
That's right, rest now to be stronger in a little while. I would recommend two days off including your travel day. Then you are free to swim and run in the 30 minute range as much as you want. Ideally you would get out again for a long ride this weekend but no real goals there, just for Time, perhaps in the aero bars if that's your thing.
The following week because her to make some adjustments around your training, but first let me know how you are recovering. Those really steep climbs are just killer. It's not just the gearing, it's also the watts per kilogram and the innate ability to suffer... Unique intersection of those items makes for a pro cyclist. The rest of us just set our quads on fire!!!!
Congrats on doing so well!
~ Coach P
I took the day off on the flight home, largely due to delayed flights but it worked. I also took yesterday off to get the two days of rest. Otherwise I have done three shorter runs and one swim with a swim today. I am thinking I will get back on the bike tomorrow, but no goals and no pushing at this point. I still feel tired, though more likely from lots of work stuff since I've been home. My legs feel pretty good and a touch more sleep should sort me out. The long weekend will be a good deal for that. Let me know what else you want to know and we can set up the go forward. Thanks!
Sending you some good weather this weekend!
quick questions and a thought based on schedule. First if you want this info in the other thread, just tell me. Looking at the week you laid out, just a couple questions. First, when you say long swim, what are you thinking distance-wise? Also on the Thursday ride, I looked over the races on zwift and none are very long. Instead I've cherry picked from some of the set workouts they have. With the Thursday ride, does it matter if I'm doing FTP type work or VO2 type work? Lastly (at least I think) am I now on the tri bike exclusively or still use the roadie?
Second, this week I get sent out of town for work leaving Thursday in the morning and getting back Sunday in the afternoon. So since I won't have a pool and haven't decided if the bike is coming or not, I was going to shift things around some. First is switch Tuesday and Thursday because I can likely sneak in a quick run before we roll (after the bike of course). Next switch Friday and Wednesday to get the swim. Lastly would be what to do Saturday. I'm planning a quick run before work. If I bring my bike I will try to ride in the afternoon. Sunday maybe a quick run before we head home. I might bike when I get home but not sure. The other caveat is that would put a few days running in a row so I will be cognizant of how the Achilles feels and try to avoid too much. What do you think? Thanks P!
From your description of the trip, it sounds like you would only be able to ride on Saturday afternoon. Unless you can stick the bike on the back of your car and not have to do any admin with it, I say don't bring it and instead leave it on the trainer so you can do an easy spin out on Sunday night when you're back.
I am OK with the frequent running, you just have to listen to your body like you promised. Remember, any 30 minute session counts towards keeping your consistency. I don't need flash at this point in the year, we just need consistency. Stepping away from the bike for a few days is not the worst thing that could happen to you right now!
Let me know what you think.
running question. And I preface by saying I know you're not a Doc. When I run, I can feel the Achilles, esp on the back to back days or if I go over 5 or six miles. I haven't dealt with this much before so I'm looking for advice. A few thoughts/questions. Am I better to pause the running for now or just do less and hope the stretching, etc, will work it out and then add more. I don't want to give up miles but I also don't want to screw up my Achilles and be out for a while. Also, do insoles help with this type of deal? I've never used them but if it helps I will try anything. Let me know what you think. I'm willing to push through but I also know this could be more problematic than some of the other issues I've just pushed through. Thanks P.
* I would seek out alternate modalities where the Achilles doesn't bother me. the elliptical sucks, but if I can get 90 minutes on the thing without Achilles pain I would be on it right now.
* Tuesday saying I would fill any missed run time with more swimming or core/strength work that would help me improve the mobility of my leg and alleviate the load on my Achilles.
I hope your vacation is going well. I just met with the doctor again about the Achilles. Here is the gist. It isn't healing like he had hoped with what we are doing. He said more aggressive therapy (not a surprise and not a problem) and then gave me a choice. Since it isn't healing and has a sizable buildup on the tendon, To fully heal, I should shut down the "offending activity (running)" for 8 weeks and then start small, etc. Or I could take three weeks off, hope it all will hold together and be happy with just finishing. And then I need to shut it down for long term and do all the therapy and stuff again. Bottom line is that if I keep up like this it won't heal and will work toward rupture.
So I'm trying to figure out next steps. I could try the three week option and hope it responds with a long winter to follow if it works. Or I could shut it down now and just let it heal fully and try again next year or beyond. If I went that route I would try to become Scott the cyclist since I need work there anyway. Basically neither option is what I want (total understatement) but those are the choices. I'm processing as we speak but would love your thoughts. Have a great 4th!
Making decisions is one of the hardest things that we do as athletes, and nine times out of 10 we make the wrong ones. Having to focus and make discrete choices is one of the best ways to improve. Given our own way, we typically choose choices that seem good at the time but have plenty of consequences. This decision is fundamentally different.
I am not saying you can't do a race just to do it, I'm just saying you have to evaluate whether or not that meets your criteria of success for this year.
As your coach, my vote is that you shut it down and begin the process of getting it right. Missing a race doesn't mean the year is a wash, you have done a ton of great work and I have seen you get stronger on the bike every weekend In Zwift. This could very well be the push you needed to spend more time on the bike.
The choice you mention (can I race just to finish and feel satisfied) is what I've been wrestling with. I've come up with lots of reasons why I could (course recon for future years, etc) but pretty much all of them don't hold water when I think about it from the perspective that I can't cut it loose and actually race it. That's not how I'm built. So I'm going to likely bail on the race. I guess we can stop the elite deal. I will likely start a solid bike focus and see where that goes. Two years in a row now, getting old is tough. Any suggestions on becoming a bike monster are welcome. Thanks P.
Personally, I have done this quite a bit. IMMT will be my first race in 21 months. I don't know what is less ready, and my body or all of my equipment! I will pay attention to your thread, and certainly contribute as well… We might be able to use some of what folks give you as guidance is the foundation for the rest of this year.
Just an update on where I am/what's going on. Nothing in this requires a quick response as an FYI. First, after seeing the doc, I am off to PT. No real surprise in what I was told. The Achilles is likely the result of taking on too much load because other parts are either weak (some parts of the core) or have "limited" mobility (hips and ankles). So my knees are good, which is nice. Otherwise it all might need work! So I am working on all those parts while the Achilles hopefully is healing with the run time off. No real timeline laid out yet, but I don't really need one at this point.
As for training, the focus is the bike. On the side, I will likely swim a couple times a week and some aqua jogging to keep some of that all still working so starting to run again won't be quite as rough. That is all secondary though right now. I have been zwifting a lot, with a focus on the races for Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. That is two fold since, a. it's fun (in a sick sort of way, though I know you get that) and b. it gives that threshold work in an manner I can tolerate. I have been either riding in or on Zwift on Saturday and then the ABP ride on Sunday. I have been working myself into basically riding most days at least in some fashion. On the Monday and Friday days (if I ride), it has been more just a ride (if I feel like it I will go for sprints or KOM's, if not, no biggie, otherwise z2-3 type time) to get the legs back.
Going forward, I have been thinking about doing this style for a bit. I was thinking trying to do some sort of multiday ride to finish a block of this type of work. Any thoughts on that (or what would be a good tour like that)? Again, no real rush. The target is a bigger bike. I feel like I'm getting stronger (funny how that happens when it is the ONLY thing you are doing), so that is good but I would love a true big engine allowing me to stay with the big boys. I know that will take a lot of work, but that's where I need it.
Good luck with your race! Your fitness looks good! Hopefully it will be a nice welcome back to racing.
My only caveat to use keep track of your numbers for those races/water efforts. If you start to see an overall downward trend in the power you are able to sustain for two, five, 10 minute segments then perhaps it's time for a little bit of a break break. That would just mean something like three days of no cycling as you let the legs come back. It will be pretty quick because you're not running very much.
For example if your weekly mileage has been 200 miles, then you can get in up to 300 miles (long, OT hard!) in a bike block of 3-4 days. The hardest part of this exercise will be forcing yourself to keep the intensity down as compared to how you normally ride on your computer! You can give me more details on that later.
First, good luck this weekend! You look ready and I'm sure you will have a great day. I wanted to just shoot you a quick update since I have reached another point along the way. I have been working with the PT for almost 2 months at this point. We have been working a lot on ankle and hip flexibility. We were measuring range on the ankle and was getting up to 10 degrees of flex. Given that I started at 2-3, that was pretty good. The PT cleared me to try the elliptical for a bit. I did two days (with a rest day in between) of 20 minutes or so. The bad news is hurt pretty bad later in that day. When I told that feedback to the PT it confirmed what I thought, this isn't good news. Basically the evaluation is to go back to the doc, with the thought of an MRI likely on both the ankle/Achilles area as well as the left hip. I have that appointment scheduled, two weeks from today.
The summary is that I still have no idea when I will be able to run again. Pretty big bummer, but more time to bike I guess. Again, not sure I even have any questions at this point. I am basically just playing around until I get a better idea on if/when I can start doing other things again. I will put in some work on the bike, but things are a bit less structured right now. Again, just an update. Good luck again, go kill it!
Plse se set a call with me post tremblant...maybe close to those MRIs so we can discuss.
Just another quick update on where things are at with me. I went to the doctor and heard some of the words that are never good to hear, "Wow, you don't see this very often, come here and look at this (said to a resident)!" Now the story that leads up to this statement. I told the doctor about what hurts and where again, this time probably more specifically. First, I still have pain and some swelling in the Achilles that has not gone away after no running for almost 2 months. Also, I pointed out some pain/burning sensation on the outside and under my ankle that came when I was on the elliptical. He started to mess with some of the tendons there (I wish I could remember the name(s)) and when he had me push my foot out against resistance, he could feel a pop that happened every time. That is what brought on the comment. In case there was any doubt about it, he was certain he wanted an MRI on the whole ankle, possibly some of it while in motion (I didn't know that was possible). I get the MRI next week and hopefully will know more on that either by end of next week or likely the following. My fear is surgery of some kind, but I do tend toward the drama queen with injuries, so I will wait and see.
I also basically asked if we could do something to check out my left hip, so we got those x-rayed. I got fairly quick feedback. The x-ray showed I have osteoarthritis in both hips, the right is considered "mild" and the left is considered "moderate". I felt ok with that until I looked up the categories and saw the only one beyond moderate was severe. I will talk with the doctor further on what it means long term, but I have a few ideas already on what it means. First, I assume I won't be encouraged to run a ton (though I do wonder how much of the damage was caused by my rugby career vs just running and if that consideration might change the thought process some) and second, I have a feeling at some point in my life I will get the joy of a hip replacement. I was pretty sure that was going to happen anyway, now I have a little more confirmation. Anyway, basically the doctor visit and resulting tests so far have not given much good news, but I am better armed with what is going on and will be more so after the MRI. If surgery is the deal, I will just have to cross that bridge when we get there.
In the mean time, I'm not sure what the doctor did, but that ankle/Achilles area is pretty painful almost all the time now. I have largely stopped doing most of anything because it hurts. The doctor told me I could do what I could tolerate, so I may just have to harden up a bit, but that's where I'm at. Again, no real questions yet, and I will set up a call once I know more from the MRI, but figured I would pass on what I know.
While all of this maybe rare, and certainly knew for you, you're not the first person in the house to deal with this. We have resources here to lean on and learn from as you continue to push forward.
I look forward to more news and to catching up with you soon.
PS – I agree, dial back the training sessions of all accountants until the pain is tolerable.
I took up some good hobbies in my downtime as well...can all be athletic. Reading, language, joined a board, etc.
be be sure to present things to the Team too so they can follow and advise as needed. Folks like Ian Kurth are gold mines of info....
NO WAY on those calories...I can't bear another off season of the Insult Diet!!!
You are in the throes of it right now...I saw this and thought of you:
Be sad. Be mad. Be frustrated. Scream. Cry. Sulk. When you wake up you will think it was just a nightmare only to realize it’s all too real. You will be angry and wish for the day back, the game back THAT play back. But reality gives nothing back and nor should you. Time to move on and focus on doing everything in your power to prepare for surgery, ask all the questions to be sure you understand fully the procedure so that you may visualize it in your subconscious while being operated on and better the chance of it’s success. Then focus on the recovery process day by day by day. It’s a long journey but if you focus on the mini milestones along the way you will find beauty in the struggle of doing simple things that prior to this injury were taken for granted. This will also mean that when you return you will have a new perspective. You will be so appreciative of being able to stand, walk, run that you will train harder than you ever have. You see the belief within you grow with each mini milestone and you will come back a better player for it. Best of luck to you on this journey my brother #mambamentality always.
Also, random Peroneal Tendon surgery reading here: http://www.scottdouglas.biz/?cat=33