@Brian Terwilliger I hear you on the wash, rinse, repeat. That said, you can see that your hands are resting comfortably right at the end of your bar extensions. Basically I would argue that those extensions are about 1.5 to 2” too long. Your hands should be in that position with your elbows in the proper position. Might be a simple adjustment worth trying to see if that improves your overall comfort. Small change I know but little things add up.
What kind of sadistic SOB puts a 1:45 run the day after brutal Z4 FTP intervals on the bike and then has me getting up at 4 AM for an endurance swim the next morning? I love it! I chew on suffer. I chew on agony.
I'll see if I can find some good pics from IMChoo on the bike. You can see my elbows are on the very front edge of the pads. I've clearly slid well forward and am ready for a reposition. My hands are generally in the crook where the bar bend up. I agree they are a touch long. On my other bike they are shorter and probably correct length. However, I've had my hands fly off the front when hitting a bump and almost eaten it several times. The extra gives me a touch of margin.
I am glad you like the pain! The goal is to make you stronger, although I’m not quite sure how much stronger you can possibly get at this point. LOL. At the end of the day, you are the one who’s riding that bike so if you feel like the set up is good for you you get two thumbs up for me.
One of my annual rituals is reviewing my bike fit to see if there’s any improvements I can make to the whole set up. I do it around this time so that I don’t have to do it two weeks before my race when I am freaking out. There’s always new lesson learned with regards to opportunities for speed.
In your case, your set up is a 9 out of 10... no easy changes to make for speed. At this point we’re talking about fractions of seconds and honestly the fit of your tri top and overall head position could be a bigger difference maker than moving those pads. As far as I’m concerned, the most important thing to pay attention to is comfort and I believe you have that box checked.
Alright, update and plea for help. Might get a bit long, please read. So you know where I am at, racing IMMD on Sept 28th, I’m in Week 10 of the IRONMAN Full Distance, Bike Focus plan. Level 3.
The swim is going swimmingly, as expected. The run is shockingly good. Like off the charts good. Stryd power is great, pace is flying, and fatigue seems to be virtually non-existent. Though once the 2 hour long run kicks in, all bets are off. But all signs point to it continuing to be great. Switching to running with Stryd instead of pace really seems to be paying huge dividends. And no doubt my goal of running every day is a big contributor. Today marks 302 consecutive days. Started on Sept 17, 2018 with the goal of ending the streak with the marathon at IM Maryland on Sept 28th.
One big standout item that has really struck me on the improvement scale is my HR when running. Tonights run was 45 minutes of steady Z1. Was supposed to include 6 to 8 strides then finish out the 2nd half in Z2. Probably could have, but decided to just do steady Z1 as it was 99 degrees out. Which is more on the blacktop of the road. Last year at this time, my HR at my Z1 pace would have been in the mid to upper 140s, even touch 150. Now? Mid to upper 130s! It peaked at 140 climbing a hill tonight. Thats an incredible drop in HR for essentially the same effort. And I’m sure you saw my post in the EN facebook page with my two Stryd Power test screen shots. If you haven’t, check it out.
So, now to the problems. 1st up, vacation drops at what is a horrible time to miss out on some big stuff. Friday July 26 through Sunday Aug 4th. Miss out on the Challenge ride (7 hours) on July 27th, Long ride on Aug 3rd, and ABP ride on Aug 4th. I 90% have to leave my bike at home for the vacation. I could bring it, but it would be a little bit of a pain and we have friends joining us half way though and no way I can get away with disappearing for half the day a couple times to ride my bike. So my thoughts were to do a big run volume pop. Aside from the runs on plan for Week 12, what should I add? Total mileage target?
How should I alter week 13 when I get back? I figure I need to back off the run volume a touch and jack up the bike volume. And thats where we come to the real problem. I’m in a hole and on a seemingly downward spiral on the bike. I’m struggling big time and have no idea why. The power and endurance just aren’t there and seem to be going backward. Particularly on the trainer, which is usually my meat and potatoes and where I kill it. But my HR has been skyrocketing and getting away from me and isn’t really staying correlated to effort and power output. I’m having to cut sessions short, or back off on power targets. Last year at this time, my bike was off the chart. But this year, its dead. Any ideas, tips, tricks, solutions that have worked for you or other ENers when they’ve hit the wall and backslide on the bike even though they aren’t skipping workouts or slacking off? I’m giving it all I have, but what I have is greatly lacking. In a few weeks, the plan switches from Wed, Sat, Sun bike to Tue, Thurs, Friday, Saturday bike. The Tues, Thurs, Friday will have to be on the trainer. Saturday, pending weather can always be outside.
I’m just at a loss as to how to get the bike to turn around and start improving again. I’m working hard on recovery, sleep, and nutrition. Weight is maintaining to slowly dropping. Nothing hurts or is currently injured. Just totally stumped and getting discouraged and frustrated. Also have decided to try out the tried and true solution to bike problems, NEW BIKE!!! LOL. Been wanting it so finally pulled the trigger. Premier Tactical. Plus with how its configured, I can easily play around with position with ease and get a more aero and ‘proper’ position to get my arm angle more where you want it.
IMMD goal is sub 10. I figure 1:05 max for swim + transition if the water is good. Maryland swim is a crapshoot. Could be nice or a total choppy shit show. You just don’t know. Would love love love to go sub 5 on the bike. But getting close to 5 is acceptable. This way I have a tiny bit of breathing room on the run. I don’t want to have to push myself to the point of failure and walking the last few miles because I put myself in a position where I had to absolutely hit X time to break 10. But I firmly believe I have a 3:45 or better marathon in me with a stretch goal of sub 3:30 on a perfect day.
If we can fix the bike struggle I think all the pieces will fall into place. Help me out here!
@Brian Terwilliger happy to help you out. First of all, I’m glad to hear that the majority of your training is going well. I know the swim is your bag but having a run where it is right now is just phenomenal. I can’t overstate the importance of the run durability and consistency that you’ve built. You see it manifesting itself right now in the fitness that you have and we can be very confident that you will carry that into race day as well. A complete game changer.
The downside of having a great run engine is that it doesn’t come without a cost. The Run work you were doing and the adaptations that you have earned mean that you were carrying a greater load of fatigue into those bikes sessions. To put it another way, your total fitness is higher but the allocation of fatigue is such that you’ve had to take from your ability to work on the bike to build what you have on the run. Another words, it’s not a loss exactly, just a redistribution.
Before we go on monkeying around with what you have, how has your outdoor speed been impacted? In other words, even if the Watts are down and you need to take a break, I personally don’t really care if when you’re riding outside you’re still cruising along at 22 miles an hour on the flats and arrow bars. He might not be as strong, but you still might be as fast. Can you give me some insight to that?
If I completely controlled every aspect of your life, I would make sure that you got the challenge ride in before you left. The earlier that happens the better. It would also allow you to take an easier week given the large work you’ve done on the bike, and you can offset it with Running.
But given your experience on the bike right now, so I would not make that an epic run week by any means. I would just keep rolling what you have in terms of a week the distance and make sure you get the long run done, that’s it. We want consistency for Run mileage while enjoying some rest with produced bike and swim time. The goal will be to come back the following week with the new focus on the bike.
There are some opportunities to do damage control, but it involves walking away from that run and you’ve built a lot of momentum there. I think it will be pretty psychologically hard for you to do that and possibly not required. Let me know about the speed above and will go from there.
1) Won a free bib for a local 5K my primary run club puts on. Its on Saturday Aug 17th. Week 14 of the Full Distance, bike focus plan. Standard schedule that day is the 40’ run, TRP steady, try to negative split with Z2 finish if feeling good. Followed by 5 hour steady bike + town line ride. Should I literally race the 5K? Lollygag it and keep going till 40’ or give away the bib and do the scheduled run? I honestly have no plan or interest in redoing the Critical Power test between now and race day (Sept 28th). And certainly not the one on plan while I am on vacation in a week and a half. And best I can tell, the last week of July (Week 12 of plan) is the last bike and run power tests in the schedule. So maybe running the 5K will be a good final ‘test’ type run to evaluate where the run power is at. Who knows. I hate 5Ks. Hardest race of them all. A heart attack in a box. Pure evil. And no doubt it will be 95 degrees and 100% humidity. What say you?
2) So whats my bike speed on the open road? I have no idea. I’ve only ridden on the road 3 times this year, each of the previous 3 weeks. But plan on doing at least 1 road ride a week from here on out. The 1st one was just a lollygag easy ride with much much slower friends. I just wanted to get on the street. Make sure everything on the race bike still worked as it hadn’t been ridden since Sept. And to get an easy ride in to shake out the bike handling skills, or lack there of as the case was. The next road ride was the Challenge Ride. Thanks to a mechanical it ended at exactly 100.4 miles. Took 5:28 to go 100 miles. And it was all easy Z1 riding and 3,200 feet of gain. It was also a bazillion degrees out. If not for the mechanical I’d of kept going to around 130 miles. Then last week did 65 miles. Avg 19.2 with 1,700 feet of climbing. However this was a mixed bag of intensities. 30 minutes super easy warm up, which gets you some great 10-12 MPH climbs and false flats. Cause there is nothing flat around here. Couple that with my bike set up, which is factory aluminum rims and new Gatorskins. So not exactly set up for speed. Then a 45’ Z3 effort as best I could on the open road with standard interruptions, then back down to Z1 and some Z2 until the end. So really, I have no idea what my speed is or would be on an open flat road at whatever power outputs. But I’d be surprised if it wasn’t pushing close to 21 with a modest effort and flat wind. Slap on the carbon race wheels, aero helmet, proper race tires such as 25mm GP 4000 or 5000 and another MPH or 2 should show up. And if the new tactical premier bike can be dialed in with a killer aero position, who knows. And I don’t mind dialing back the run training a bit to get some gains back on the bike. I think the heat may force that regardless. At least as far as higher power runs and intervals go. Either in the number of them or duration of them. Ultimately, in a perfect scenario on race day, the swim and bike put me in a position where I don’t have to attempt to force a run to happen to hit goals, but leave me a big enough window that I can run as properly proscribed and have a shot at hitting the sub 10 target.
Got a 4 hour ride tomorrow. Supposed to be two big 45’ (15’) sweet spot intervals then the slightly shorter Z3 intervals followed by steady race pace effort. But as your team email said earlier today, dial it down with the heat. Will be pushing 100 actual temp and ‘real feel’ on my phone says will be 107. Oh joy! So its likely an Upper Z1, low Z2 steady effort with some strong segment efforts, but not shooting for or attempting to get any crowns. Just some nice high power pops for a minute or 5 mixed in a few times each 33 mile loop. Hoping to get a little over 70 miles in. Then Sunday is the ABP ride, will just do the same thing again but a little shorter effort. New bike should be here Tuesday or Wednesday. But won’t get to ride it until the week of Aug 5th when I get back from vacation.
And I am looking at moving next Saturday’s 7 hour “challenge” ride to this coming Thursday as I then leave for vacation and no bike again until Aug 6th.
And a question I’ve had with IM Marathon pacing with Stryd. Which we can address in a couple weeks before the first race rehearsal on Aug 23rd. The running by HR/Pace EN Protocol is pretty straight forward and well known. But I haven’t been able to find what the EN Protocol is for running by power in the IM Marathon. Are the first 6 miles still by Avg HR off the bike, then switch to power? Or is it a 6 mile power window, then a mile 7-18 power window before we reach the line and push or hang on for dear life? And how is the power targets identified and arrived at? And is anything possibly changing with Stryd introducing Auto CP? Which for me is wildly different than actual run test results CP. My run tests gave me a CP of 334. Auto CP puts me at 317. Big difference. But, the EN formula for rFTP gives me 315 as the basis for setting my EN run power zones. So maybe not all that much different when it comes to determining what to draw race day power from.
I say pass on that 5K run bib. At this point in time, your run is super zippy and the only confirmation we need before race day is what your power looks like in your long runs, not your 5K. Specificity matters more the closer that we get and that includes the ability to run long as well as handle fatigue which is what you have in your training right now. So I say just do the schedules work out please.
Thanks for the detail about the bike. I agree with you, you will find an extra mile or two per hour with all of the gear on the bike, as well as tweaking that set up. You really hit the nail on the head when you talked about how to swim and the bike put you in a position where you don’t have to use all of the run. That’s correct, your fitness is a weapon that we don’t want to use 100% ... Eventually the race gets hard enough and we use it to not slow down unlike the competition.
Yes to moving the challenge ride earlier before vacation, that will be critical.
It might not be easy to find, but I did add a session on running with Power into the half and full race execution page online. Essentially we run it power until our heart rate zones dictate that we need to slow down based on the conditions. Giving your run fitness and your race day goals, you could easily run closer to your zone two watts sooner....but HR is always there.
Good, because I hate 5Ks. 5Ks are the devil. They are without question the hardest of all the race distances. Though, next Tuesday there is a 5K where I am on vacation. You get beer and tacos at the finish line. And since I won’t be biking or swimming. Hmmmm…..
Well, massive storms consumed the entire afternoon and evening. So tonights 5 x 1km Z4 run didn't happen. I'll do that next Tuesday instead of the stupid Taco Tuesday 5K or keep the scheduled one on Wednesday. While not going for a big run volume pop, will probably try to push past 50 miles, but The bulk will be Z2 likely.
I did sneak out into the storm and got in 2 miles tonight though. 310 consecutive days of running. No split long run on Thursday, trying to do the challenge ride. We may come home next Saturday instead of Sunday. If so, will get in a long ride on Sunday.
I am not against you doing a 5K where you get beers and tacos in the end. Especially when you’re on vacation! Sounds like a good way to beat yourself up and earn some quality calories to. I don’t know what’s more impressive, your run speed or your run streak! If we don’t talk before hand, have a great trip.
here is a quick overview. After having the greatest year of running ever, running better and faster than ever, I can no longer run. Out of the blue and in an instant with no warning 2 Sunday’s ago in the middle of a run my hamstring decided to develop some kind of injury. It literally happened mid stride and brought me to an immediate stop and I walked back to the car. We can’t figure out what’s going on. It does not affect swimming nor biking in any way. It just makes running impossible.
I can crush the bike. Averaging well over 20 mph on 100 milers without really stressing myself and riding mid Z1.
Going to PT again Monday morning and will have another round of dry needling. I don’t plan on running again until race day, maybe day before.
So here is where my devastated brain is at.
1) Attack the swim and absolutely destroy the bike as if the run doesn’t exist and then have a depressing 6 to 7 hour walk to the finish line.
2) Swim and bike to EN protocol, try to run and see what happens and still maybe have a long ass walk.
Thoughts?
I remember a podcast probably about a year ago with a female who had and injury that prevented her from running but on race day could and had a great run. PR maybe even for the IM run. I could be misremembering. Do you know what episode it was so I can find it in the archives?
What do you two do leading up to race day? We are now 5 weeks away from race day.
This weekend is race rehearsal #1. I plan on doing 110-120 miles on the bike tomorrow (Friday) and again on Saturday. Obviously no long run Sunday. Maybe a short Z1 Zwift session. Or nothing.
Im devastated and don’t know what to do or how to handle this.
Ill also try try to get some pics to you of the new bike and my super comfy and aero position.
@Brian Terwilliger YIKES! Please post as specifically as you can re the hammy, as your teammates have had it all. Maybe create a new HAMMY Injury thread (put link here) and tag it hamstring, injury, training management, etc so others will chime in.
I want to know:
Where on hammy...upper? Lower?
What was cause of the onset...trauma? Unknown? Were you deadlifting cars?
Any other recent changes? Shoes? You mention the new bike...was that pre or post run injury?
When do you feel it running...push off, front part of stride, full weight?
I don't have a specific podcast for you....But yes that has happened. Basically you are fit enough that extra running isn't additive to your performance. Mentally it's a TOTAL MIND🦆 And I get that. But shutting it down ASAP is the best path forward, in addition to the Hamstring Inquisition.
Get me those answers here or ideally, in a new Hammy Thread... 👍
Posting from work is kinda a pain as the browser doesn't like to play nice with the forum. I did the above on my phone, also a pain in the ass. So may have to wait till tonight to start a injury thread.
It came out of nowhere in the blink of an eye in the middle of a run. All was fine and dandy and then BOOM, extreme pain. There was no indication something was wrong, or even a tiny bit of discomfort or anything leading up to it on any previous runs. Was 100% firing on all cylinders
Its starts basically right where ass meets leg and down the center line of the back of the leg till about half way down. I don't think it can be an actual injury or damage to the hammy. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to crush the bike. At least I wouldn't think so.
In my uneducated guess, it feels like a cramp that just will not let go. A couple years ago I had a similar thing with my calf, and needling got it fixed. So hoping the same for this.
With the new bike, my position is based off my Felt, which is my main workhorse bike that I have been riding for 4 years. And honestly, its probably the most comfortable I've felt on a bike in a long time and my pedal stroke is as smooth as butter.
No worries on the posting, do it where you can. Any chance this is nerve pain? It sounds a lot like the sciatic nerve, especially without trauma, a specific area (nerve location) and no pain bike/swim but yes to run.
Let me know what your PT says about the sciatic nerve; do both of them, or as best you can without pain. If you get pain, it's over. If indoors is easier, so be it. I am looking for the aerobic boost that could fill that place of your missing long runs.
She says its not the nerve from whats she's seen and what she's able to do with my leg. When I was 60 pounds heavier and used a wallet, I had some sciatic issues and this doesn't remind me of it. When I had the issue it would really affect my ass and lower back. I've have no ass or back issues.
Weather was questionable today and we've had a lot of storms rolling through the past few days so decided to ride Zwift. No big storms, but it did rain. So probably right choice.
116 miles, 5:16, 194 avg watts, 293 TSS and I feel pretty good.
Weather permitting I'll do the 100+ outside tomorrow at a little bit lessor effort.
Right now my head is telling me no matter what and no matter how good my leg feels between now and race day (assuming needling on Monday finally gets this thing to loosen up and work) I am not running again until race day. Well, the day before. Then I'll make a call on how to tackle race day. If I can run a few easy miles and don't feel any pain or detect any signs its likely to do what its been doing, I'll race it as I'm supposed to and actually racing it. Then hope that I actually make it through the run. If I don't I don't and I walk most of it. I'm facing walking it no matter what so no big deal.
If however I can't even make it a few miles to day before, then its game on to attack the bike like an animal. There is no reason not to. Might as well race that and have fun before a miserable 7 hour walk. Not like I have to save any energy for it. And I'll just pet all the dogs along the way before Susan Haag gets to them.
Also, pouring rain here. So back on Zwift. I don't think my ass can take another 5 hour trainer ride today. While I love Zwift, maybe even more than riding outside, with nothing on the calendar tomorrow but a run I can't do, going to do a shorter ride today and another tomorrow. Maybe a slightly lower effort today and a higher effort tomorrow. Maybe find a race or something to put in a really high watt effort to compensate for not having a 100+ miler today.
Alright, I took Saturday off as weather was crap and had my parents 50th anniversary dinner in the early evening, so moved my Sunday plans to Saturday and rode 70 miles on Sunday at a smooth 180 watts and had no issues. Other than fatigue from a stupid 116 miles on Zwift. Felt great after the 2nd loop and 70 miles but decided it was probably best to call it and not load up undue stress while trying to heal.
Going to try to upload video of my bike fit to get your thoughts.
Darn it. I can't upload video here for some reason. I sent you an FB message with a slo mo video of me on the bike.
I can hold the position for hours on end with no issue, ass feels great, I'm comfy.
Thoughts. Good, bad, changes I should make? I know nothing about an actual proper fit other than what "feels good". The only thing I could think possibly to change is maybe make the saddle a tiny bit higher.
And yes, I like to sit right on the nose. If I move back and sit on the fat part of the saddle like I hear you are supposed to, it bothers the hell out of the area right where the ass and upper leg meet and I have to move forward for relief.
I debated whether to even write up a race plan but decided to do a basic one for the hell of it. The leg injury has really destroyed me mentally and as recently as last weekend I was still contemplating filing the insurance claim and just going up and volunteering. After multiple rounds of dry needling and lots of massage therapy I have been able to ‘run’. Some runs are good, some are struggles, and some are cut short and walked back to the car or home. But in all of them, even the good ones, the leg lets me know its still not 100% and ready to bite at any moment. I’ve found that increasing cadence with shorter strides and working on trying to “paw back”, even though you can’t really do it at lower speeds, has helped a great deal. But due to the month layoff, my endurance is down as I’ve done no long runs. Heat acclimation is gone and my HR is about 10 beats higher than where it was at the end of July for similar power efforts. But where just a few weeks ago I was 100% looking at having to walk the marathon, I now believe I at least have a shot at ‘running’ the vast majority of it. Though I may still have to walk a majority. Its a total unknown. The leg will decide what kind of day it will be and I won’t know until I hop off the bike and switch to the run. So, assuming I can somewhat run, here is my basic plan. I’ll leave out all the boring pre race stuff. Its simple. Get up, eat, drink, poop, and do the normal pre-race stuff to the bike in transition. Tires, computer, hydration, etc….
Swim: For the first time ever I want a wetsuit legal swim. Swimming was my one weapon, and getting people out of their wetsuits played well for me. But, even though swimming isn’t really impacted by the leg injury, once I get deeper into a swim set, it starts to let itself be known. So most of the swimming since I got hurt has been pull with virtually no kicking. So with a wetsuit my butt and legs will float and I won’t have to kick at all really, reducing stress on leg. Will take the swim easier than normal so as to not aggravate the leg. This being the case, couple minutes either side of 1 hour and I am happy. If its non wetsuit, pushing closer to 1:10, which normally would disgust me and ruin my day. But backing off and essentially doing it entirely by pull will not be fast as my ass and legs will be dragging.
Just going to start smooth with long strokes, site every 5 to 6, and keep it easy the whole way.
T1: Exit water, remember there are strippers and be ready for them (if WS legal). Take my time with a slow jog instead of a run. In my Bike bag I will have shoes, helmet and towel and water bottle to clean feet. Clean feet, put on shoes, put on helmet, stuff WS in bag, and off I go.
Bike: FTP was 275 two months ago and it has no doubt gone up. But not willing to do an FTP test with the leg injury as the stress of one would likely be unwise.
This was a mental battle. 2 or 3 weeks ago I’d of said I was going to TT the bike and see just how damn fast I can do 112. Because there was no run. I was walking. Didn’t need to save anything. But now that I can somewhat run, I’m going to ride it as I should. The first couple miles of IMMD is getting out of the little downtown area and out to the Wildlife Refuge for the majority of the bike. Lots of short streets, turns, bike traffic, etc…. So its a good time to go easy, get HR down and eat a Gel and have a drink. Target HR is below 125 before I start doing work. So, planning on 180 watts until I get that HR. Which I may have the moment I get on the bike. Once I get my HR where I want it, am out on the open road, will bring the watts up to 190 and shoot for an HR under 130 and Lap NP of 195. 125 HR would be best. But under 130 I can work a long time. If its staying under 125, will be very happy. Race day adrenaline usually bumps it a touch though. After special needs, will bump the watts to 195 and shoot for a lap NP of between 200-205. Hold this until the end. Target time? No idea. Close to 5 hopefully.
Nutrition on bike: Infinit GO Far with Base Salt added to up sodium. 3 bottles at start and get 3 bottles at Special Needs. This should be enough. Can grab a bottle of GE if needed at the last aid station. Weather should be cool enough that I don’t need to massively hydrate. If HR up a little or feeling warm, will pour water on myself at aid stations. Will supplement a few additional calories with Shot Blocks at 2 hours, 3:30, 4:30, and 5:00. May pop an extra with a couple miles to go on the bike. Want to preload some calories before the run so I can hold off a few miles before having to start putting crap in my stomach.
T2: Unlike other races, gotta rack our own bikes. So, dismount, slow jog to the rack, then grab bag and go in tent. T2 should be pretty quick and simple. Put on socks, sneakers, put bike shoes and helmet in bag and grab my go bag and go.
So whats in the Go Bag? Race belt with bib on it. In belt is several GU, tube of base salt, shot blocks and some money (more on that later). Also in the Go Bag, my visor, race saver bag, hand held hydration bottle, sunglasses. So plan is to put on socks, shoes, grab bag and go. I’ve got a mile to get my belt/bib on, hat and glasses on, race saver bag ready for ice if needed then throw away the bag at the aid station.
The Run: This is a total unknown and crapshoot. As we know, we are supposed to run at last hour of the bike HR. This doesn’t work for me as my HR is too low on the bike. Will probably come off the bike with an avg HR of around 125. Thats walking. So 135 is target. If it ticks above a couple, no problem. If it hits 140, back way off. But will be running by power. Target for the first 6 is 255ish. Z1 power is 258. So anything 25X is good. Tick above 260 and back down a touch. As long as HR is staying in target range. If, and thats a big if, I make it through 6 miles without leg issues the goal is to keep the power above 260 until I can’t run no more and am forced to walk by the leg. IF that happens. If it does, it does. If it doesn’t, around mile 15 we will start to determine where the line is. 18 or 20? Probably 20. If I am still able to hold 260 I will attempt to step it up closer to 270. I doubt this will be possible. But it will be the whip to keep moving and not slow down. But the run really is a total unknown. It may be a nice run it may be a miserable 6 to 7 hour walk. We just don’t know.
Run hydration/nutrition. I have found that stopping, as in walking is not good. So the normal EN protocol of walking 20 to 30 steps at an aid station is a bad idea. Once I stop, its tough to get the leg moving again. So I will have a hand held bottle that I can fill and go 3 or 4 aid stations before refilling. But to extend that time, will try to grab a combination of gatorade, coke, and red bull at each aid station as I ‘run by’. If I miss, I have my bottle. Will have a handful of GU and shot blocks on me and will eat one of them every 3 or 4 miles as best I can.
But its all a gamble and the run is going to be what its going to be based on how the leg decides it wants to act that day. Hoping for the best and will do my best mental games to keep stride short, cadence up, and paw back to reduce the stress and impact load placed on the hammy with each footfall. I think if I can win that mental game instead of spacing out we will have a good day.
Original run goal was sub 3:30. Now its to not walk. But if I am able to ‘run’ sub 4 I will be thrilled.
Now, why would I carry money on the run? RAR Brewing is at one of the turn arounds. If its a total shit show and I am forced to walk, I’m stopping in for a beer or two.
The end.
I know this is a horrible, no good, very bad race plan as far as structure and detail go, but honestly I was so mentally and psychologically destroyed by my leg injury after having such a great year that I'm just happy I've turned a mental and physical corner enough that I'm looking forward to racing and not filing an insurance claim.
While it won’t be the day I was hoping it would be, its looking like it may be better than it seemed it would be a couple weeks ago. Can only hope for the best and behave in a fashion that will help to lead to the best possible results.
After this, rest up and continue to work on leg and start planning next year and running Boston for the first time.
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I have to say that no matter what you write, I absolutely enjoyed reading it! I know that his leg injury has been a real bummer for you but I still appreciate how you are approaching the race as an event. Given what the weather looks like this weekend in Maryland, I think that smart execution could actually play in your favor.
You can go easy in the swim and still be competitive, you can go fairly easy on the bike and still be competitive, is the run where questions abound. Given the heat on the day, even staying steady will be a competitive advantage on the run. I wouldn’t count yourself out from a placing in your age group perspective, until after you got to the finish line to check things out. That course with those temperatures is built to destroy the uninitiated.
In other words, this might not be a day where you set a personal best from a time perspective, but you absolutely can set a personal best from a placement perspective. The terrain means there’s almost no cost for you in terms of being a bigger athlete, and if you can stay arrow and keep tension on the chain the whole time you’d be surprised how fast your girl. Looks like you’ll have headwinds heading back up on the other side of the course on both laps, windier on the second. But maxes out at about 6 mph which is affectively nothing. If we can keep you in the aero bars and you focus on staying as low as possible in that talk I think you will be blown away with just how fast you are going.
The important part is to not get focused on the speed but really make sure you are 110 % Dialed in on the food and fluids. You must must must Pee twice on this bike if you have any hope of completing the run safely. I emphasize that since walking is not really an option we will have to be very conservative with your pacing so the heart rate doesn’t spike. This means getting wet at all the stations ice in the hat, etc. if things go well, and by that I mean you can run in someway shape or form, then you will have 10 miles to make magic happen at the end of the day. That’s the goal. Even if you have to walk earlier and don’t let it get you down, part of it could just be transitioning to the Run are getting back into the groove.
In other words, I wouldn’t just have the pain walk five steps and throw in the chips. I’d give it a little bit to see if things can turn around. My guess is that you will be well into the top 10 or 15 in your age group by the time you get off the bike and in much better shape than the competition who will now have to try and run after biking too hard in that heat. Just some food for thought.
I’ve been hydrating and peeing like mad on the long training rides. Also been preloading big hydration the night before so I’ve had to pee repeatedly in the morning and before I start my ride after I get to the lake where I do my rides. I will most definitely do my best to not over hydrate Thurs and Fri night. Get most of it during the day. And as long as there are no officials around and I can pee on the bike I won’t loose time if I have to pee 3 or 4 times. Hopefully not that much though. But I have been over hydrating on purpose. I’ll probably over hydrate a touch on the first loop and back off slightly on the 2nd loop, but later in the loop to help the stomach empty a bit so its not over full when I get off and have to start downing food and liquid at a faster pace on the run. And the Maryland run layout is not conducive to pissing yourself while running unlike some other courses with some pretty vacant parts of the run course. So also need to stay out of the johns on the run.
And I could always just pull a Mariah and piss myself in transition while standing at the bike to get one out of the way at the start.
The pain in my leg, when it hits is a crippling, bring you to your knees, you are done pain. If it hits, I’ll walk a few minutes and try to run. If it quickly hits a 2nd time, its a walk to the finish most likely. If its just a hey, this hurts, I’m still running. I have a very high pain tolerance. But the injury pain is one that under no circumstances is anyone going to run through. It literally ceases your ability to use your leg. And I can power walk and fast cadence shuffle at a pretty good pace if needed.
My mental keys on the run are pretty simple. Lean forward, short strides with fast turn over, paw back, and keep a constant eye on the power. I believe if I can keep my head about me and focus on those items instead of spacing out from fatigue (or disappointment if things aren’t going well) I will have a successful run. Normally spacing out and just letting my legs turn over is how I have my best runs. But if I have a mental lapse and revert to my normal longer stride, even at appropriate power I will probably aggravate the hammy.
The podium people unfortunately know how to execute a race regardless of conditions, so my execution and luck with my leg is going to be key to competing with them. 8 weeks ago I was confident in a legit shot at the podium. Today, not so much. But as long as I come out on the other side healthy and not more injured than I am today it will have been a good day.
@Brian Terwilliger Do I know my athletes or WHAT!?? 🤣 Seriously though, that course is built for you. Healthy you goes 4:50 and runs a 3:45 (-ish) to get a slot. Something to keep in mind for the future. You swim fast enough and bike fast enough that flat courses are your friend.
Moving forward, goals to consider:
Recover first, keep current belt loop so you remain skinny (as long as you can).
Core / functional strength once hammy is healed to keep you healthy through next year.
The only races on the calendar for next year now is Boston on 4/20. I think thats the date. Depending on how the leg progresses will determine if we race or just run. Then the Run The Quay 15K challenge the first Saturday in June. Probably skipping the Krispy Kreme Challenge this year, but may get sucked in.
The North Carolina Triathlon Series schedule for 2020 should be out first week of Nov. The one I know I want to do is the White Lake Fall Half Iron which is usually the 2nd Saturday in Sept. Then the sprint on Sunday. Been poking around trying to find a mid June, very early July Half. And toying with Savageman just to try and get a brick. Clearly not a course for me to be competitive. And it would be 2 weeks after the White Lake Half so really, its just to do the race, try for the brick, and have fun. I'd love to find a 40K time trial or two just to see how much I can destroy myself. There is one here, but tri bikes are not allowed. I guess I could use my aluminum road bike if I got an itch.
Maryland definitely sets up for me and its a nice shortish drive. Only @6 hours. I will be back for a 3rd crack at it. The Crystal Coast Full Booty should be back in 2021. Course similar to MD, but an ocean swim.
What IMs set up well for me like MD? I've got 2 years to build and be a bigger beast. IM Cozumel has been calling my name. But tough with kids in school and convincing my parents to take em for 10 days and shuttle em to school.
We shall see how the leg progresses over the next month in the post IM plan and figure out how to map out a plan for Boston. I plan staying on the bike so probably a balanced plan.
All of that looks good and sounds reasonable. Any fun course will do, so Arizona, Cozumel or two that come to mind right now. Texas is flat but that’s too early.
would there be any interest in doing a doubleheader next year? The transition from Maryland to Cozumel is perfect for a repeat effort without a whole entire season of rebuilding. I have had pretty good success with that.
@Coach Patrick I'd love to do a double full iron next year. The boss won't allow that next year. But 2021 is a strong possibility.
I have friends that are idiots, in a good way, they like to do stupid stuff like me and will stay in decent race shape for halves and will do on site registration for Fulls if they feel like going for fun. MD and Choo rarely if ever sell out and are reasonable drives. And I have a feeling that with a slight bump in run volume leading into the White Lake Half Iron, hopping in the car and to MD a week later as its the 19th next year, I could probably pull off a great performance. And the boss wouldn't be a single parent all summer with full on iron training. I secretly have this as a plan if the leg returns to 100% and I'm feeling good.
Comments
@Brian Terwilliger I hear you on the wash, rinse, repeat. That said, you can see that your hands are resting comfortably right at the end of your bar extensions. Basically I would argue that those extensions are about 1.5 to 2” too long. Your hands should be in that position with your elbows in the proper position. Might be a simple adjustment worth trying to see if that improves your overall comfort. Small change I know but little things add up.
@Coach Patrick
What kind of sadistic SOB puts a 1:45 run the day after brutal Z4 FTP intervals on the bike and then has me getting up at 4 AM for an endurance swim the next morning? I love it! I chew on suffer. I chew on agony.
I'll see if I can find some good pics from IMChoo on the bike. You can see my elbows are on the very front edge of the pads. I've clearly slid well forward and am ready for a reposition. My hands are generally in the crook where the bar bend up. I agree they are a touch long. On my other bike they are shorter and probably correct length. However, I've had my hands fly off the front when hitting a bump and almost eaten it several times. The extra gives me a touch of margin.
I am glad you like the pain! The goal is to make you stronger, although I’m not quite sure how much stronger you can possibly get at this point. LOL. At the end of the day, you are the one who’s riding that bike so if you feel like the set up is good for you you get two thumbs up for me.
One of my annual rituals is reviewing my bike fit to see if there’s any improvements I can make to the whole set up. I do it around this time so that I don’t have to do it two weeks before my race when I am freaking out. There’s always new lesson learned with regards to opportunities for speed.
In your case, your set up is a 9 out of 10... no easy changes to make for speed. At this point we’re talking about fractions of seconds and honestly the fit of your tri top and overall head position could be a bigger difference maker than moving those pads. As far as I’m concerned, the most important thing to pay attention to is comfort and I believe you have that box checked.
@Coach Patrick
Alright, update and plea for help. Might get a bit long, please read. So you know where I am at, racing IMMD on Sept 28th, I’m in Week 10 of the IRONMAN Full Distance, Bike Focus plan. Level 3.
The swim is going swimmingly, as expected. The run is shockingly good. Like off the charts good. Stryd power is great, pace is flying, and fatigue seems to be virtually non-existent. Though once the 2 hour long run kicks in, all bets are off. But all signs point to it continuing to be great. Switching to running with Stryd instead of pace really seems to be paying huge dividends. And no doubt my goal of running every day is a big contributor. Today marks 302 consecutive days. Started on Sept 17, 2018 with the goal of ending the streak with the marathon at IM Maryland on Sept 28th.
One big standout item that has really struck me on the improvement scale is my HR when running. Tonights run was 45 minutes of steady Z1. Was supposed to include 6 to 8 strides then finish out the 2nd half in Z2. Probably could have, but decided to just do steady Z1 as it was 99 degrees out. Which is more on the blacktop of the road. Last year at this time, my HR at my Z1 pace would have been in the mid to upper 140s, even touch 150. Now? Mid to upper 130s! It peaked at 140 climbing a hill tonight. Thats an incredible drop in HR for essentially the same effort. And I’m sure you saw my post in the EN facebook page with my two Stryd Power test screen shots. If you haven’t, check it out.
So, now to the problems. 1st up, vacation drops at what is a horrible time to miss out on some big stuff. Friday July 26 through Sunday Aug 4th. Miss out on the Challenge ride (7 hours) on July 27th, Long ride on Aug 3rd, and ABP ride on Aug 4th. I 90% have to leave my bike at home for the vacation. I could bring it, but it would be a little bit of a pain and we have friends joining us half way though and no way I can get away with disappearing for half the day a couple times to ride my bike. So my thoughts were to do a big run volume pop. Aside from the runs on plan for Week 12, what should I add? Total mileage target?
How should I alter week 13 when I get back? I figure I need to back off the run volume a touch and jack up the bike volume. And thats where we come to the real problem. I’m in a hole and on a seemingly downward spiral on the bike. I’m struggling big time and have no idea why. The power and endurance just aren’t there and seem to be going backward. Particularly on the trainer, which is usually my meat and potatoes and where I kill it. But my HR has been skyrocketing and getting away from me and isn’t really staying correlated to effort and power output. I’m having to cut sessions short, or back off on power targets. Last year at this time, my bike was off the chart. But this year, its dead. Any ideas, tips, tricks, solutions that have worked for you or other ENers when they’ve hit the wall and backslide on the bike even though they aren’t skipping workouts or slacking off? I’m giving it all I have, but what I have is greatly lacking. In a few weeks, the plan switches from Wed, Sat, Sun bike to Tue, Thurs, Friday, Saturday bike. The Tues, Thurs, Friday will have to be on the trainer. Saturday, pending weather can always be outside.
I’m just at a loss as to how to get the bike to turn around and start improving again. I’m working hard on recovery, sleep, and nutrition. Weight is maintaining to slowly dropping. Nothing hurts or is currently injured. Just totally stumped and getting discouraged and frustrated. Also have decided to try out the tried and true solution to bike problems, NEW BIKE!!! LOL. Been wanting it so finally pulled the trigger. Premier Tactical. Plus with how its configured, I can easily play around with position with ease and get a more aero and ‘proper’ position to get my arm angle more where you want it.
IMMD goal is sub 10. I figure 1:05 max for swim + transition if the water is good. Maryland swim is a crapshoot. Could be nice or a total choppy shit show. You just don’t know. Would love love love to go sub 5 on the bike. But getting close to 5 is acceptable. This way I have a tiny bit of breathing room on the run. I don’t want to have to push myself to the point of failure and walking the last few miles because I put myself in a position where I had to absolutely hit X time to break 10. But I firmly believe I have a 3:45 or better marathon in me with a stretch goal of sub 3:30 on a perfect day.
If we can fix the bike struggle I think all the pieces will fall into place. Help me out here!
@Brian Terwilliger happy to help you out. First of all, I’m glad to hear that the majority of your training is going well. I know the swim is your bag but having a run where it is right now is just phenomenal. I can’t overstate the importance of the run durability and consistency that you’ve built. You see it manifesting itself right now in the fitness that you have and we can be very confident that you will carry that into race day as well. A complete game changer.
The downside of having a great run engine is that it doesn’t come without a cost. The Run work you were doing and the adaptations that you have earned mean that you were carrying a greater load of fatigue into those bikes sessions. To put it another way, your total fitness is higher but the allocation of fatigue is such that you’ve had to take from your ability to work on the bike to build what you have on the run. Another words, it’s not a loss exactly, just a redistribution.
Before we go on monkeying around with what you have, how has your outdoor speed been impacted? In other words, even if the Watts are down and you need to take a break, I personally don’t really care if when you’re riding outside you’re still cruising along at 22 miles an hour on the flats and arrow bars. He might not be as strong, but you still might be as fast. Can you give me some insight to that?
If I completely controlled every aspect of your life, I would make sure that you got the challenge ride in before you left. The earlier that happens the better. It would also allow you to take an easier week given the large work you’ve done on the bike, and you can offset it with Running.
But given your experience on the bike right now, so I would not make that an epic run week by any means. I would just keep rolling what you have in terms of a week the distance and make sure you get the long run done, that’s it. We want consistency for Run mileage while enjoying some rest with produced bike and swim time. The goal will be to come back the following week with the new focus on the bike.
There are some opportunities to do damage control, but it involves walking away from that run and you’ve built a lot of momentum there. I think it will be pretty psychologically hard for you to do that and possibly not required. Let me know about the speed above and will go from there.
@Coach Patrick
Few things.
1) Won a free bib for a local 5K my primary run club puts on. Its on Saturday Aug 17th. Week 14 of the Full Distance, bike focus plan. Standard schedule that day is the 40’ run, TRP steady, try to negative split with Z2 finish if feeling good. Followed by 5 hour steady bike + town line ride. Should I literally race the 5K? Lollygag it and keep going till 40’ or give away the bib and do the scheduled run? I honestly have no plan or interest in redoing the Critical Power test between now and race day (Sept 28th). And certainly not the one on plan while I am on vacation in a week and a half. And best I can tell, the last week of July (Week 12 of plan) is the last bike and run power tests in the schedule. So maybe running the 5K will be a good final ‘test’ type run to evaluate where the run power is at. Who knows. I hate 5Ks. Hardest race of them all. A heart attack in a box. Pure evil. And no doubt it will be 95 degrees and 100% humidity. What say you?
2) So whats my bike speed on the open road? I have no idea. I’ve only ridden on the road 3 times this year, each of the previous 3 weeks. But plan on doing at least 1 road ride a week from here on out. The 1st one was just a lollygag easy ride with much much slower friends. I just wanted to get on the street. Make sure everything on the race bike still worked as it hadn’t been ridden since Sept. And to get an easy ride in to shake out the bike handling skills, or lack there of as the case was. The next road ride was the Challenge Ride. Thanks to a mechanical it ended at exactly 100.4 miles. Took 5:28 to go 100 miles. And it was all easy Z1 riding and 3,200 feet of gain. It was also a bazillion degrees out. If not for the mechanical I’d of kept going to around 130 miles. Then last week did 65 miles. Avg 19.2 with 1,700 feet of climbing. However this was a mixed bag of intensities. 30 minutes super easy warm up, which gets you some great 10-12 MPH climbs and false flats. Cause there is nothing flat around here. Couple that with my bike set up, which is factory aluminum rims and new Gatorskins. So not exactly set up for speed. Then a 45’ Z3 effort as best I could on the open road with standard interruptions, then back down to Z1 and some Z2 until the end. So really, I have no idea what my speed is or would be on an open flat road at whatever power outputs. But I’d be surprised if it wasn’t pushing close to 21 with a modest effort and flat wind. Slap on the carbon race wheels, aero helmet, proper race tires such as 25mm GP 4000 or 5000 and another MPH or 2 should show up. And if the new tactical premier bike can be dialed in with a killer aero position, who knows. And I don’t mind dialing back the run training a bit to get some gains back on the bike. I think the heat may force that regardless. At least as far as higher power runs and intervals go. Either in the number of them or duration of them. Ultimately, in a perfect scenario on race day, the swim and bike put me in a position where I don’t have to attempt to force a run to happen to hit goals, but leave me a big enough window that I can run as properly proscribed and have a shot at hitting the sub 10 target.
Got a 4 hour ride tomorrow. Supposed to be two big 45’ (15’) sweet spot intervals then the slightly shorter Z3 intervals followed by steady race pace effort. But as your team email said earlier today, dial it down with the heat. Will be pushing 100 actual temp and ‘real feel’ on my phone says will be 107. Oh joy! So its likely an Upper Z1, low Z2 steady effort with some strong segment efforts, but not shooting for or attempting to get any crowns. Just some nice high power pops for a minute or 5 mixed in a few times each 33 mile loop. Hoping to get a little over 70 miles in. Then Sunday is the ABP ride, will just do the same thing again but a little shorter effort. New bike should be here Tuesday or Wednesday. But won’t get to ride it until the week of Aug 5th when I get back from vacation.
And I am looking at moving next Saturday’s 7 hour “challenge” ride to this coming Thursday as I then leave for vacation and no bike again until Aug 6th.
And a question I’ve had with IM Marathon pacing with Stryd. Which we can address in a couple weeks before the first race rehearsal on Aug 23rd. The running by HR/Pace EN Protocol is pretty straight forward and well known. But I haven’t been able to find what the EN Protocol is for running by power in the IM Marathon. Are the first 6 miles still by Avg HR off the bike, then switch to power? Or is it a 6 mile power window, then a mile 7-18 power window before we reach the line and push or hang on for dear life? And how is the power targets identified and arrived at? And is anything possibly changing with Stryd introducing Auto CP? Which for me is wildly different than actual run test results CP. My run tests gave me a CP of 334. Auto CP puts me at 317. Big difference. But, the EN formula for rFTP gives me 315 as the basis for setting my EN run power zones. So maybe not all that much different when it comes to determining what to draw race day power from.
I say pass on that 5K run bib. At this point in time, your run is super zippy and the only confirmation we need before race day is what your power looks like in your long runs, not your 5K. Specificity matters more the closer that we get and that includes the ability to run long as well as handle fatigue which is what you have in your training right now. So I say just do the schedules work out please.
Thanks for the detail about the bike. I agree with you, you will find an extra mile or two per hour with all of the gear on the bike, as well as tweaking that set up. You really hit the nail on the head when you talked about how to swim and the bike put you in a position where you don’t have to use all of the run. That’s correct, your fitness is a weapon that we don’t want to use 100% ... Eventually the race gets hard enough and we use it to not slow down unlike the competition.
Yes to moving the challenge ride earlier before vacation, that will be critical.
It might not be easy to find, but I did add a session on running with Power into the half and full race execution page online. Essentially we run it power until our heart rate zones dictate that we need to slow down based on the conditions. Giving your run fitness and your race day goals, you could easily run closer to your zone two watts sooner....but HR is always there.
http://members.endurancenation.us/Resources/RacingMemberCentral/RaceExecutionDetails/MasterRaceExecutionPage(HalfFull).aspx
@Coach Patrick
Good, because I hate 5Ks. 5Ks are the devil. They are without question the hardest of all the race distances. Though, next Tuesday there is a 5K where I am on vacation. You get beer and tacos at the finish line. And since I won’t be biking or swimming. Hmmmm…..
Well, massive storms consumed the entire afternoon and evening. So tonights 5 x 1km Z4 run didn't happen. I'll do that next Tuesday instead of the stupid Taco Tuesday 5K or keep the scheduled one on Wednesday. While not going for a big run volume pop, will probably try to push past 50 miles, but The bulk will be Z2 likely.
I did sneak out into the storm and got in 2 miles tonight though. 310 consecutive days of running. No split long run on Thursday, trying to do the challenge ride. We may come home next Saturday instead of Sunday. If so, will get in a long ride on Sunday.
I am not against you doing a 5K where you get beers and tacos in the end. Especially when you’re on vacation! Sounds like a good way to beat yourself up and earn some quality calories to. I don’t know what’s more impressive, your run speed or your run streak! If we don’t talk before hand, have a great trip.
@Coach Patrick
We've hit an unfortunate crossroads. Decision on IMMD to be made in the next few days or early next week. Will update then.
@Coach Patrick
here is a quick overview. After having the greatest year of running ever, running better and faster than ever, I can no longer run. Out of the blue and in an instant with no warning 2 Sunday’s ago in the middle of a run my hamstring decided to develop some kind of injury. It literally happened mid stride and brought me to an immediate stop and I walked back to the car. We can’t figure out what’s going on. It does not affect swimming nor biking in any way. It just makes running impossible.
I can crush the bike. Averaging well over 20 mph on 100 milers without really stressing myself and riding mid Z1.
Going to PT again Monday morning and will have another round of dry needling. I don’t plan on running again until race day, maybe day before.
So here is where my devastated brain is at.
1) Attack the swim and absolutely destroy the bike as if the run doesn’t exist and then have a depressing 6 to 7 hour walk to the finish line.
2) Swim and bike to EN protocol, try to run and see what happens and still maybe have a long ass walk.
Thoughts?
I remember a podcast probably about a year ago with a female who had and injury that prevented her from running but on race day could and had a great run. PR maybe even for the IM run. I could be misremembering. Do you know what episode it was so I can find it in the archives?
What do you two do leading up to race day? We are now 5 weeks away from race day.
This weekend is race rehearsal #1. I plan on doing 110-120 miles on the bike tomorrow (Friday) and again on Saturday. Obviously no long run Sunday. Maybe a short Z1 Zwift session. Or nothing.
Im devastated and don’t know what to do or how to handle this.
Ill also try try to get some pics to you of the new bike and my super comfy and aero position.
@Brian Terwilliger YIKES! Please post as specifically as you can re the hammy, as your teammates have had it all. Maybe create a new HAMMY Injury thread (put link here) and tag it hamstring, injury, training management, etc so others will chime in.
I want to know:
I don't have a specific podcast for you....But yes that has happened. Basically you are fit enough that extra running isn't additive to your performance. Mentally it's a TOTAL MIND🦆 And I get that. But shutting it down ASAP is the best path forward, in addition to the Hamstring Inquisition.
Get me those answers here or ideally, in a new Hammy Thread... 👍
~ Coach P
@Coach Patrick
Posting from work is kinda a pain as the browser doesn't like to play nice with the forum. I did the above on my phone, also a pain in the ass. So may have to wait till tonight to start a injury thread.
It came out of nowhere in the blink of an eye in the middle of a run. All was fine and dandy and then BOOM, extreme pain. There was no indication something was wrong, or even a tiny bit of discomfort or anything leading up to it on any previous runs. Was 100% firing on all cylinders
Its starts basically right where ass meets leg and down the center line of the back of the leg till about half way down. I don't think it can be an actual injury or damage to the hammy. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to crush the bike. At least I wouldn't think so.
In my uneducated guess, it feels like a cramp that just will not let go. A couple years ago I had a similar thing with my calf, and needling got it fixed. So hoping the same for this.
With the new bike, my position is based off my Felt, which is my main workhorse bike that I have been riding for 4 years. And honestly, its probably the most comfortable I've felt on a bike in a long time and my pedal stroke is as smooth as butter.
When you say
No worries on the posting, do it where you can. Any chance this is nerve pain? It sounds a lot like the sciatic nerve, especially without trauma, a specific area (nerve location) and no pain bike/swim but yes to run.
@Coach Patrick
do I do tomorrow and saturdays 112 mile bikes? Or “shut em down”
or do it on Zwift to control environment and conditions and go as long or short as I feel comfortable? Thanks.
Let me know what your PT says about the sciatic nerve; do both of them, or as best you can without pain. If you get pain, it's over. If indoors is easier, so be it. I am looking for the aerobic boost that could fill that place of your missing long runs.
@Coach Patrick
She says its not the nerve from whats she's seen and what she's able to do with my leg. When I was 60 pounds heavier and used a wallet, I had some sciatic issues and this doesn't remind me of it. When I had the issue it would really affect my ass and lower back. I've have no ass or back issues.
Weather was questionable today and we've had a lot of storms rolling through the past few days so decided to ride Zwift. No big storms, but it did rain. So probably right choice.
116 miles, 5:16, 194 avg watts, 293 TSS and I feel pretty good.
Weather permitting I'll do the 100+ outside tomorrow at a little bit lessor effort.
Right now my head is telling me no matter what and no matter how good my leg feels between now and race day (assuming needling on Monday finally gets this thing to loosen up and work) I am not running again until race day. Well, the day before. Then I'll make a call on how to tackle race day. If I can run a few easy miles and don't feel any pain or detect any signs its likely to do what its been doing, I'll race it as I'm supposed to and actually racing it. Then hope that I actually make it through the run. If I don't I don't and I walk most of it. I'm facing walking it no matter what so no big deal.
If however I can't even make it a few miles to day before, then its game on to attack the bike like an animal. There is no reason not to. Might as well race that and have fun before a miserable 7 hour walk. Not like I have to save any energy for it. And I'll just pet all the dogs along the way before Susan Haag gets to them.
@Coach Patrick
Hammy discussion thread.
https://endurancenation.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/26019/hamstring-injury-help-needed-in-a-big-way/p1?new=1
Also, pouring rain here. So back on Zwift. I don't think my ass can take another 5 hour trainer ride today. While I love Zwift, maybe even more than riding outside, with nothing on the calendar tomorrow but a run I can't do, going to do a shorter ride today and another tomorrow. Maybe a slightly lower effort today and a higher effort tomorrow. Maybe find a race or something to put in a really high watt effort to compensate for not having a 100+ miler today.
@Coach Patrick
Alright, I took Saturday off as weather was crap and had my parents 50th anniversary dinner in the early evening, so moved my Sunday plans to Saturday and rode 70 miles on Sunday at a smooth 180 watts and had no issues. Other than fatigue from a stupid 116 miles on Zwift. Felt great after the 2nd loop and 70 miles but decided it was probably best to call it and not load up undue stress while trying to heal.
Going to try to upload video of my bike fit to get your thoughts.
@Coach Patrick
Darn it. I can't upload video here for some reason. I sent you an FB message with a slo mo video of me on the bike.
I can hold the position for hours on end with no issue, ass feels great, I'm comfy.
Thoughts. Good, bad, changes I should make? I know nothing about an actual proper fit other than what "feels good". The only thing I could think possibly to change is maybe make the saddle a tiny bit higher.
And yes, I like to sit right on the nose. If I move back and sit on the fat part of the saddle like I hear you are supposed to, it bothers the hell out of the area right where the ass and upper leg meet and I have to move forward for relief.
@Coach Patrick
Tap Tap, is this thing on, 1, 2, 3...
@Coach Patrick
I debated whether to even write up a race plan but decided to do a basic one for the hell of it. The leg injury has really destroyed me mentally and as recently as last weekend I was still contemplating filing the insurance claim and just going up and volunteering. After multiple rounds of dry needling and lots of massage therapy I have been able to ‘run’. Some runs are good, some are struggles, and some are cut short and walked back to the car or home. But in all of them, even the good ones, the leg lets me know its still not 100% and ready to bite at any moment. I’ve found that increasing cadence with shorter strides and working on trying to “paw back”, even though you can’t really do it at lower speeds, has helped a great deal. But due to the month layoff, my endurance is down as I’ve done no long runs. Heat acclimation is gone and my HR is about 10 beats higher than where it was at the end of July for similar power efforts. But where just a few weeks ago I was 100% looking at having to walk the marathon, I now believe I at least have a shot at ‘running’ the vast majority of it. Though I may still have to walk a majority. Its a total unknown. The leg will decide what kind of day it will be and I won’t know until I hop off the bike and switch to the run. So, assuming I can somewhat run, here is my basic plan. I’ll leave out all the boring pre race stuff. Its simple. Get up, eat, drink, poop, and do the normal pre-race stuff to the bike in transition. Tires, computer, hydration, etc….
Swim: For the first time ever I want a wetsuit legal swim. Swimming was my one weapon, and getting people out of their wetsuits played well for me. But, even though swimming isn’t really impacted by the leg injury, once I get deeper into a swim set, it starts to let itself be known. So most of the swimming since I got hurt has been pull with virtually no kicking. So with a wetsuit my butt and legs will float and I won’t have to kick at all really, reducing stress on leg. Will take the swim easier than normal so as to not aggravate the leg. This being the case, couple minutes either side of 1 hour and I am happy. If its non wetsuit, pushing closer to 1:10, which normally would disgust me and ruin my day. But backing off and essentially doing it entirely by pull will not be fast as my ass and legs will be dragging.
Just going to start smooth with long strokes, site every 5 to 6, and keep it easy the whole way.
T1: Exit water, remember there are strippers and be ready for them (if WS legal). Take my time with a slow jog instead of a run. In my Bike bag I will have shoes, helmet and towel and water bottle to clean feet. Clean feet, put on shoes, put on helmet, stuff WS in bag, and off I go.
Bike: FTP was 275 two months ago and it has no doubt gone up. But not willing to do an FTP test with the leg injury as the stress of one would likely be unwise.
This was a mental battle. 2 or 3 weeks ago I’d of said I was going to TT the bike and see just how damn fast I can do 112. Because there was no run. I was walking. Didn’t need to save anything. But now that I can somewhat run, I’m going to ride it as I should. The first couple miles of IMMD is getting out of the little downtown area and out to the Wildlife Refuge for the majority of the bike. Lots of short streets, turns, bike traffic, etc…. So its a good time to go easy, get HR down and eat a Gel and have a drink. Target HR is below 125 before I start doing work. So, planning on 180 watts until I get that HR. Which I may have the moment I get on the bike. Once I get my HR where I want it, am out on the open road, will bring the watts up to 190 and shoot for an HR under 130 and Lap NP of 195. 125 HR would be best. But under 130 I can work a long time. If its staying under 125, will be very happy. Race day adrenaline usually bumps it a touch though. After special needs, will bump the watts to 195 and shoot for a lap NP of between 200-205. Hold this until the end. Target time? No idea. Close to 5 hopefully.
Nutrition on bike: Infinit GO Far with Base Salt added to up sodium. 3 bottles at start and get 3 bottles at Special Needs. This should be enough. Can grab a bottle of GE if needed at the last aid station. Weather should be cool enough that I don’t need to massively hydrate. If HR up a little or feeling warm, will pour water on myself at aid stations. Will supplement a few additional calories with Shot Blocks at 2 hours, 3:30, 4:30, and 5:00. May pop an extra with a couple miles to go on the bike. Want to preload some calories before the run so I can hold off a few miles before having to start putting crap in my stomach.
T2: Unlike other races, gotta rack our own bikes. So, dismount, slow jog to the rack, then grab bag and go in tent. T2 should be pretty quick and simple. Put on socks, sneakers, put bike shoes and helmet in bag and grab my go bag and go.
So whats in the Go Bag? Race belt with bib on it. In belt is several GU, tube of base salt, shot blocks and some money (more on that later). Also in the Go Bag, my visor, race saver bag, hand held hydration bottle, sunglasses. So plan is to put on socks, shoes, grab bag and go. I’ve got a mile to get my belt/bib on, hat and glasses on, race saver bag ready for ice if needed then throw away the bag at the aid station.
The Run: This is a total unknown and crapshoot. As we know, we are supposed to run at last hour of the bike HR. This doesn’t work for me as my HR is too low on the bike. Will probably come off the bike with an avg HR of around 125. Thats walking. So 135 is target. If it ticks above a couple, no problem. If it hits 140, back way off. But will be running by power. Target for the first 6 is 255ish. Z1 power is 258. So anything 25X is good. Tick above 260 and back down a touch. As long as HR is staying in target range. If, and thats a big if, I make it through 6 miles without leg issues the goal is to keep the power above 260 until I can’t run no more and am forced to walk by the leg. IF that happens. If it does, it does. If it doesn’t, around mile 15 we will start to determine where the line is. 18 or 20? Probably 20. If I am still able to hold 260 I will attempt to step it up closer to 270. I doubt this will be possible. But it will be the whip to keep moving and not slow down. But the run really is a total unknown. It may be a nice run it may be a miserable 6 to 7 hour walk. We just don’t know.
Run hydration/nutrition. I have found that stopping, as in walking is not good. So the normal EN protocol of walking 20 to 30 steps at an aid station is a bad idea. Once I stop, its tough to get the leg moving again. So I will have a hand held bottle that I can fill and go 3 or 4 aid stations before refilling. But to extend that time, will try to grab a combination of gatorade, coke, and red bull at each aid station as I ‘run by’. If I miss, I have my bottle. Will have a handful of GU and shot blocks on me and will eat one of them every 3 or 4 miles as best I can.
But its all a gamble and the run is going to be what its going to be based on how the leg decides it wants to act that day. Hoping for the best and will do my best mental games to keep stride short, cadence up, and paw back to reduce the stress and impact load placed on the hammy with each footfall. I think if I can win that mental game instead of spacing out we will have a good day.
Original run goal was sub 3:30. Now its to not walk. But if I am able to ‘run’ sub 4 I will be thrilled.
Now, why would I carry money on the run? RAR Brewing is at one of the turn arounds. If its a total shit show and I am forced to walk, I’m stopping in for a beer or two.
The end.
I know this is a horrible, no good, very bad race plan as far as structure and detail go, but honestly I was so mentally and psychologically destroyed by my leg injury after having such a great year that I'm just happy I've turned a mental and physical corner enough that I'm looking forward to racing and not filing an insurance claim.
While it won’t be the day I was hoping it would be, its looking like it may be better than it seemed it would be a couple weeks ago. Can only hope for the best and behave in a fashion that will help to lead to the best possible results.
After this, rest up and continue to work on leg and start planning next year and running Boston for the first time.
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I have to say that no matter what you write, I absolutely enjoyed reading it! I know that his leg injury has been a real bummer for you but I still appreciate how you are approaching the race as an event. Given what the weather looks like this weekend in Maryland, I think that smart execution could actually play in your favor.
You can go easy in the swim and still be competitive, you can go fairly easy on the bike and still be competitive, is the run where questions abound. Given the heat on the day, even staying steady will be a competitive advantage on the run. I wouldn’t count yourself out from a placing in your age group perspective, until after you got to the finish line to check things out. That course with those temperatures is built to destroy the uninitiated.
In other words, this might not be a day where you set a personal best from a time perspective, but you absolutely can set a personal best from a placement perspective. The terrain means there’s almost no cost for you in terms of being a bigger athlete, and if you can stay arrow and keep tension on the chain the whole time you’d be surprised how fast your girl. Looks like you’ll have headwinds heading back up on the other side of the course on both laps, windier on the second. But maxes out at about 6 mph which is affectively nothing. If we can keep you in the aero bars and you focus on staying as low as possible in that talk I think you will be blown away with just how fast you are going.
The important part is to not get focused on the speed but really make sure you are 110 % Dialed in on the food and fluids. You must must must Pee twice on this bike if you have any hope of completing the run safely. I emphasize that since walking is not really an option we will have to be very conservative with your pacing so the heart rate doesn’t spike. This means getting wet at all the stations ice in the hat, etc. if things go well, and by that I mean you can run in someway shape or form, then you will have 10 miles to make magic happen at the end of the day. That’s the goal. Even if you have to walk earlier and don’t let it get you down, part of it could just be transitioning to the Run are getting back into the groove.
In other words, I wouldn’t just have the pain walk five steps and throw in the chips. I’d give it a little bit to see if things can turn around. My guess is that you will be well into the top 10 or 15 in your age group by the time you get off the bike and in much better shape than the competition who will now have to try and run after biking too hard in that heat. Just some food for thought.
@Coach Patrick
I’ve been hydrating and peeing like mad on the long training rides. Also been preloading big hydration the night before so I’ve had to pee repeatedly in the morning and before I start my ride after I get to the lake where I do my rides. I will most definitely do my best to not over hydrate Thurs and Fri night. Get most of it during the day. And as long as there are no officials around and I can pee on the bike I won’t loose time if I have to pee 3 or 4 times. Hopefully not that much though. But I have been over hydrating on purpose. I’ll probably over hydrate a touch on the first loop and back off slightly on the 2nd loop, but later in the loop to help the stomach empty a bit so its not over full when I get off and have to start downing food and liquid at a faster pace on the run. And the Maryland run layout is not conducive to pissing yourself while running unlike some other courses with some pretty vacant parts of the run course. So also need to stay out of the johns on the run.
And I could always just pull a Mariah and piss myself in transition while standing at the bike to get one out of the way at the start.
The pain in my leg, when it hits is a crippling, bring you to your knees, you are done pain. If it hits, I’ll walk a few minutes and try to run. If it quickly hits a 2nd time, its a walk to the finish most likely. If its just a hey, this hurts, I’m still running. I have a very high pain tolerance. But the injury pain is one that under no circumstances is anyone going to run through. It literally ceases your ability to use your leg. And I can power walk and fast cadence shuffle at a pretty good pace if needed.
My mental keys on the run are pretty simple. Lean forward, short strides with fast turn over, paw back, and keep a constant eye on the power. I believe if I can keep my head about me and focus on those items instead of spacing out from fatigue (or disappointment if things aren’t going well) I will have a successful run. Normally spacing out and just letting my legs turn over is how I have my best runs. But if I have a mental lapse and revert to my normal longer stride, even at appropriate power I will probably aggravate the hammy.
The podium people unfortunately know how to execute a race regardless of conditions, so my execution and luck with my leg is going to be key to competing with them. 8 weeks ago I was confident in a legit shot at the podium. Today, not so much. But as long as I come out on the other side healthy and not more injured than I am today it will have been a good day.
@Coach Patrick
I'll do a write up on the race later but wanted to drop this here. Do I know my bike or do I know my bike.
Predicted 5 hours, 185-190 watts, and 125 HR. Nailed em all dead on exact.
Garmin, which I think is more accurate than Strava had Avg Pwr 187 and NP of 191. .69 IF. How's a 1.02 VI. #BOOM
I'd of broke 5 by a few minutes but had a bottle launch twice and had to go back and get it. Cost me several minutes no doubt.
@Coach Patrick race report posted in the forums.
Also you predicted top 10, maybe 15 off the bike. Came off the bike 7th.
@Brian Terwilliger Do I know my athletes or WHAT!?? 🤣 Seriously though, that course is built for you. Healthy you goes 4:50 and runs a 3:45 (-ish) to get a slot. Something to keep in mind for the future. You swim fast enough and bike fast enough that flat courses are your friend.
Moving forward, goals to consider:
Pumped to map this out,
~ Coach P
@Coach Patrick
The only races on the calendar for next year now is Boston on 4/20. I think thats the date. Depending on how the leg progresses will determine if we race or just run. Then the Run The Quay 15K challenge the first Saturday in June. Probably skipping the Krispy Kreme Challenge this year, but may get sucked in.
The North Carolina Triathlon Series schedule for 2020 should be out first week of Nov. The one I know I want to do is the White Lake Fall Half Iron which is usually the 2nd Saturday in Sept. Then the sprint on Sunday. Been poking around trying to find a mid June, very early July Half. And toying with Savageman just to try and get a brick. Clearly not a course for me to be competitive. And it would be 2 weeks after the White Lake Half so really, its just to do the race, try for the brick, and have fun. I'd love to find a 40K time trial or two just to see how much I can destroy myself. There is one here, but tri bikes are not allowed. I guess I could use my aluminum road bike if I got an itch.
Maryland definitely sets up for me and its a nice shortish drive. Only @6 hours. I will be back for a 3rd crack at it. The Crystal Coast Full Booty should be back in 2021. Course similar to MD, but an ocean swim.
What IMs set up well for me like MD? I've got 2 years to build and be a bigger beast. IM Cozumel has been calling my name. But tough with kids in school and convincing my parents to take em for 10 days and shuttle em to school.
We shall see how the leg progresses over the next month in the post IM plan and figure out how to map out a plan for Boston. I plan staying on the bike so probably a balanced plan.
All of that looks good and sounds reasonable. Any fun course will do, so Arizona, Cozumel or two that come to mind right now. Texas is flat but that’s too early.
would there be any interest in doing a doubleheader next year? The transition from Maryland to Cozumel is perfect for a repeat effort without a whole entire season of rebuilding. I have had pretty good success with that.
Hoping that leg recovers quickly!
~ Coach P
@Coach Patrick I'd love to do a double full iron next year. The boss won't allow that next year. But 2021 is a strong possibility.
I have friends that are idiots, in a good way, they like to do stupid stuff like me and will stay in decent race shape for halves and will do on site registration for Fulls if they feel like going for fun. MD and Choo rarely if ever sell out and are reasonable drives. And I have a feeling that with a slight bump in run volume leading into the White Lake Half Iron, hopping in the car and to MD a week later as its the 19th next year, I could probably pull off a great performance. And the boss wouldn't be a single parent all summer with full on iron training. I secretly have this as a plan if the leg returns to 100% and I'm feeling good.