Wow. What a difference shoes make. Ever since the first test, where I thought the numbers were wacky so I have been running in more "traditional" running shoes for lack of a better term, and not my minimalist racing flats. Have been getting far more consistent numbers across all pairs at all paces. The racing flats really seem to produce wildly false low watts with odd ball super high spikes in power for no reason.
Redid the 3/9 test tonight wearing my Altra Escalante 1.5's. They are a heavy (to me) 8 ounce shoe. But an awesome workhorse trainer. Gonna get the Altra Vanish (4 oz) and hope it produces accurate power numbers as I much prefer lighter shoes for race day.
3 minute power 355 watts, 5:36 min/mi. 74 watts more than in the racing flats. I was 10 sec a mile faster on pace today than previous test. 9 minute power was 332, 6:12 min/mi. I was 13 seconds a mile pace faster today than previous test. 57 watts more than the racing flats. Even better, the first mile and the time from mile to 9 minutes were at the exact same pace and within 1 watt. 332 for first mile, 333 for mile to 9 minutes. No crazy surges or dying over the last few minutes. I believe these are legit numbers.
I'm on Week 17 of 24 on the Marathon Advanced plan. 16 miler this weekend. I'm going to try and throw pace out the window and run power. We shall see how it goes. Gonna be strange. Based on the power numbers I've been seeing on runs at various paces, the EN Power Zones will have me running slightly slower paces per zone than the EN Pace zones. Can always try to kick it up a little on marathon day if feeling good. But goal is a killer run at IMMD. So long time to work on this. And one more 5K test on plan that I will do the 3/9 test instead of. Its almost as evil, but not quite.
30 straight days of running! Whooo! Will hit 1,000 miles for the year tomorrow. Strava has me averaging 47.3 miles a week over the last 4 weeks. Which is a HUGE increase in weekly mileage over Jan through August. Like near double. And feeling good, not stressed, fatigued (beyond normal), or that hey, I need to back off feeling. Hopefully it continues.
That’s great to know about the shoes and I like your path for a solution. Moving forward I think the more durable the train or you have the better, especially given the mileage are putting up. I will sacrifice to wait for durability during this time. You can always throw in something later for the race itself after one or two short pre-race workouts.
Try the room with Power this weekend and just see how you feel. We can always adjust the power numbers as needed to get closer to your zones but let’s see what a true power run does for your overall speed. He might be underestimated just how much faster/hard or you can run on the descents to make up the time you “lose” climbing under control.
Another nice element of power is that you can map out your run course and then trained specifically for intervals in certain sections. For example if you’re Marathon has some form of a hill at the 60 minute mark, you can replicate that even on a flat run by increasing your wattage from normal marathon pace to climbing pace for that 10’ segment.
Zone 3 and 4 power are pretty darn close to Z3 and Z4 pace. And Z5 is well, Z5. Its Z1. TRP, and Z2 that are well behind. Particularly TRP and Z2.
Marathon is on a dead flat course. The only thing around here that is flat is the American Tobacco Trail which is an old railroad track bed. Its a 20 mile straight, tree lined path. Nicknamed The Tree Tunnel. Mind numbingly boring and I absolutely hate that place. I may do next Saturdays long run there. The only issue is that having heavy tree cover, GPS is wonky and the watch will read some crazy pace numbers, well on the slow side. So it could end up being a very poor test of how power matches pace on a long flat run vs the never ending rolling and hilly stuff I have to run on normal street running. The last thing I want to do is go and run lap after lap after lap on a track for an extended period to get a flat course power reading. Who knows.
Since you have power, we know that the runs in the tree covered area will be consistent. It’s just a function of whether not they match up your GPS pace. This means that we are guaranteed to get a good run for you even without even though there’s an outside chance you might not get good pace information. I would still consider that to be a win.
Also, remember that we don’t have to run two hours to identify the correlation between Payson power. You can easily go out for a 5 mile run and see what the correlation is. We don’t get the fatigue factor but I know you are very good at determining paces and effort.
Well, maybe the zones are on track. Not sure yet. Today did 5 miles Z1 power (248). Avg'd 246 and had a pace of 8:23. Z1 pace is 8:24. I think Z2 is the real gap between pace (7:09) and power (264-273). But will see. I'm going to do my best to ignore pace and just run power zones here on out until the next 5K test on plan that I will substitute the Stryd 3/9 test for.
Z2 pace is supposed Marathon Pace. 7:09. But reality is, I would be happy sub 7:20. Sub 7:15 and I would be thrilled. So now the trick is to figure out what power I have to run to hit 7:15, and then determine if thats a power I can sustain for 26 miles on a flat course. After the next power test we will get together and figure out a power plan for race day and take it from there.
42 straight days of running. 51.3 miles for the week, 201.6 MTD (3 days left to go). This will be my highest volume month ever by quite a bit. Have done over 200 twice before a couple years ago, but just a bit over. Depending on how many I have after Tuesday, I may extend Wednesday's Z1 steady on hills enough to get to 220.
Today was 16. 5 Z1, 3 Z2, 3 Z3, 3 Z1, 2 best effort. Did it at the Tobacco Trail and knew pace would be unusable. When I'm pushing 290 watts and my watch says 8:45 pace, you know its garbage. Thats why I avoid that place if at all possible. You really have no idea what you're doing. And when you finish your run and upload it, you get wildly different numbers in Garmin and Strava. And even within the same platform. While avg pace for the run matches up as thats just distance/time. But miles are different, some quite a bit. Such as in Strava, the last 2 miles on the trail is a segment. I got a PR on it avg 6:35 a mile. Yet my Strava splits give me a 6:58 and a 6:53 for mile 15 and 16.
But set up my plan based on watts and was able to hit and hold all my zone watt targets. Really felt I could push higher numbers as I felt good the whole time. Next week its 18 miles as 30/50/20. Plan obviously is based on paces, but, ya, no good there so will come up with a watt plan that is close to what my limited running with power knowledge can think of. Off of the data I have gathered so far, and the paces I see on my watch out on the road at various power levels, I think 280 (or a tick higher) is probably close to the number I need to average to hit my goal time. The Stryd Race Power Calculator in the app says I should run a marathon at 271. So we are pretty close.
So my thoughts, 1 mile Z1 jog to get warmed and loosened up a little. Then do the run. 30% of 18 is 5.4. Do this around 260-65. Tough window to hold, but will really just try to not go above 270 or dip to low. Then 9 at 280-90. Remainder, 3.6 miles, best effort, meaning trying to hold above 290. Thoughts? I ideas? For reference, my CP in the stryd power center is 321.
Of course, come race day, being an idiot, I'll just line up with the target time pacer and have a go at it. LOL.
As annoying as the different numbers are, this is all part of the process of learning how to reconcile your power with your heart rate with your piece. Another words, if we zoom out far enough it’s all good. 👍
I think your plan for the race simulation run is perfect. I’m not so much worried about the pieces that you get out of it because we can always retroactively do the math on your total run time minus the 1st mile. I more want to see how your power pacing sets you up from the heart rate perspective. Please also don’t forget about your nutrition! Sending you vibes for good weather
Nutrition nailed down. Vodka and gummy bears. Kidding. Sorta. I do like gummy bears on the bike when I stop to refill bottles. But they can be a pain to eat while running with a jacked HR and breathing heavy.
Unlike a lot of marathons, they only have aid stations every other mile. My plan currently is to wear my belt with four 9 ounce bottles. Gatorade Endurance with a pinch of base salt added. Really wearing it more as a backup than a fuel plan. Weather should be cool to cold. So sweat loss will be minimal. They have gatorade on course. And plan on a cup or two every aid station and supplement with the GE, or the reverse. Probably start with the GE to fort load calories, and finish off with regular gatorade to have lighter stuff in stomach for the later part. Work over the next month is going to be to figure out how often to suck down a GU pack. I figure my burn rate is going to be around 800 calories an hour. Current half ass plan is to start GU at mile 4, and have 1 every 4 miles, then every 3 miles (15, 18, 21), then another at 23 if my stomach is good and not full, burping, or sloshy and give it what I have left for the final 5K. Thinking/hoping thats enough calories with taking in 3 to 5 ounces of Gatorade or GE every mile. Won't start drinking till mile 2 as I'll suck down a bit and have a GU prior to start. I'll have caffeine in 2 of the bottles for the later stages of the race, along with caffeinated GU.
This may be horribly wrong. We shall see how it goes for 18 on Saturday following the plan up to mile 15 as there is no point in a GU after that. Open to suggestions.
Added 10/31: 45 day run streak. 220 miles in October. Starting to get that calf tweak. Will keep an eye on it and go get needled if needed to get ahead of it.
Carrie knows bottles will be a pain. If you recall, I put some salt water solution into bottles in my belts. Then at the station to escort a little bit of that in to the regular Gatorade it to “endurance-ify” it. That saves you almost 20 ounces of fluid across 26 miles. Just a thought.
In terms of the food, your breakfast is the most important meal of the day that should be consumed about two hours prior.
There’s no point in having extra Gels, or rather, gels more frequently towards the end. You will not be in a position to really process them. Since you like gummy bears, why don’t you eat cliff blocks? You can carry a sleeve of black cherry caffeinated ones I have one of those tucked in your cheek every 2 miles starting at mile 14. Maybe one caffeinated gel tucked in your shorts in case you need an extra kick around mile 20.
I do like the blocks and use them on the bike from time to time. Will hit REI and grab some. Not sure why I didn't think of it. I really like those Honey Stinger waffles but man, they just crumble to a million pieces when you carry them. So I limit those to treadmill and trainer sessions.
My 4 bottle belt is really like wearing nothing at all. Its shockingly comfortable. Doesn't bounce. And honestly, the placebo effect from piece of mind of having it outweighs the weight carried.
After Tuesday's Z5 repeats, became super fatigued (work contributed), so bailed on Thursdays longish run and just knocked out a short Z1 yesterday and today to keep streak alive and log miles. Saturday's 18 miler is more important. Feel good. Think it will go well. Lots of big storms tonight. Hopefully they are gone and tomorrow is not a sog fest. Hopefully temp drops. Been in the 70s and humid as hell. Will report back tomorrow sometime after run.
Sounds good. I just have this visual of you, starving, opening or waffle could have your current both of your fingers screaming NOOOOOOOO! 😂 Good call on the bed with training. At this point it’s all about the long run, you are on a roll.
Was still pretty fatigued this morning. Mentally shot from the rest of the week. Wife travels for work and I got to be Mr Mom half the week. Oh joy.
I think trying to hit 280 for an avg power for the marathon may be a bit on the high side. But maybe the training and taper will get me there. 270 is probably a safe target. But knowing me, I'll line up with the 3:15 pacer and then make a decision on where the line is at 13, 18, or 20 on when I attempt to drop the pacer and go.
HR was steady/flat and at a # that I am more than comfortable with maintaining for a long time.
Trail closed next Saturday morning for a race so will have to run on a less than optimal road for the 14. And next Tuesday is test day. Will redo the 3/9 and see if the numbers have budged. Not really expecting much. Will likely all depend on what kind of shape my body and brain are in vs actual fitness.
I think that’s a great run, especially because you are fatigued. He basically ran 315 pace for 18 miles are 142 heart rate. That’s an Iron Man heart race. Of course fatigue plays a role in that, but I think you are right on track. The key here is to balance the work and the necessary recovery. Especially when you are experiencing significant life stress. Like being Mr. mom for a whole week! 😱
edit - I think the 280 power target is a good feeling for you on race day. I am OK with you running with the 315 group, but not if you exceed 280 on any particular hill or section. That should position you well to be strong at the end of the race to close it out.
Well crap. The fastest pacer for the marathon is 3:25. Looks like I'm on my own.
20 miler this Saturday. Week 21, Marathon Advanced plan. Undecided on how and where to run it.
While I hate the tobacco trail, its safe and uninterrupted. But, GPS is useless for pace. But, I'm running with power. So just hit my zones and keep on keeping on.
But on the flip side, looking at running on the street and doing it by pace and then looking at what the power was. Particularly for the 8 mile stretch at Z2, which is where I need to be pace wise. Though my EN Run Pace Zones are in reality sightly faster than what they would be if I were to do a legit 5K time trial to set zones right now. I couldn't do a 19:20 5K right now is my guess, which is what I did when my zones were set last out season. Z2 is currently 7:09. Need to go 7:25 or better to crack 3:15. Real Z2 is probably in the middle of those. But do I have the endurance and stamina to keep that pace come mile 18, 20, 24, 26? Thats the question. Was hoping for the pacer at 3:15 more to hold me back for the beginning than push me at the end.
Have a 5K time trial on plan Tuesday. Nope, nope, nope. LOL. Doing the 3/9 Stryd test. As stated before, not really expecting much if any increase in numbers from a few weeks ago, and certainly not enough of a boost to really drive my CP up by a significant amount. The Stryd marathon race predictor/power estimator thingy tells me to run at 271. I suspect I do need to be closer to, if not slightly over 280 to hit my goal. While 10 watts over for a half or full IM bike is the kiss of death for the run, is 10 watts that big of a difference on a run that the wall will be hit between 18-20? Don't know. New to this power thing.
And while I am not a swag hag, and unlike too many people, I don't run to collect medals, they just released a pic of the medal and its so hideously bad it made me want to sell my bib.
Let’s see what we get out of the data from this weekends long run as that will give us a great deal of information. The weather is becoming more relevant to race day, your fatigue is there right now so the numbers are slightly surprised, and will be able to see the difference between higher and lower Watts relative to the pieces it gives you. Almost there!
Bailed. Did the warm up then the 3 minute. Came in at LOWER watts. 351 vs 355 last time. But, pace was 8 seconds a mile faster. 5:28 vs 5:36. Cooler temps no doubt helped. So not sure if thats a sign of being more efficient or just more favorable temps. But my HR was through the roof. Not sure if it was an optical sensor issue or real. Didn't feel like it was sky high. And normally my HR drops and drops fast when I stop a hard effort. It didn't. Which makes me lean toward sensor issue. Especially since it was cold out. My calf was getting tweaky on the cool down between the 3 and 9 minute test, so I just stopped. Didn't see a need to continue and risk upsetting my calf. Tomorrows 200 and 400 meter Z5 repeats are more important to hit strong than a single 9 minute run. Hopefully weather is halfway decent on Saturday for the 20 miler. I'm the bike lead for a 5K at 7 AM. Then throwing bike in the car and heading to the tobacco trail is the current plan. Parking lot doesn't open till 8 AM so the 5K isn't delaying me and who knows, might give me a little bit of a warm up. That I will lose afterward and driving to the trail. If weather is garbage, will have to push it to Sunday.
When its upper 30s and raining, you hit the treadmill. Mine died so to the gym I went. Good lord, the treadmill without a fan is evil.
And you learn something new every day. Was poking around the Stryd app. In the race predictor it has me listed as speed demon. I thought it was auto selected based off workouts or whatever. But hey, you can change it! So I did. Speed Demon has my marathon target watts at 273. Balanced Runner 285. And Aerobic Monster at 302! I can assure you, 302 is not happening. Likely ever. Thats as accurate as the Garmin race predictor. 2:53 marathon my ass. So with a 273 and a 285, looks like 280 is probably a realistic target. Just try to bounce around in the 275-285 window and push toward the end to keep it there.
Weekend didn't go as planned. Bike lead for a 5K Saturday morning. Advertised as starting at 7:10. Actual start time? 7:35. Threw off my schedule a bit as had a jammed packed late afternoon and evening with multiple events. But not all that bad. However, it was 35 degrees. I was frozen solid and quickly decided before the race was over there was no way in hell I was going to run 20. Took me over 2 hours to defrost and approach warm after I got home. So went and ran for 30 on the treadmill at the gym just to get an easy run in. Partied hard all night Saturday till 2 AM, 20 mile run Sunday morning be damned.
Well, nailed it. 4 miles Z1 power, 8 miles upper target race pace power zone (which is mid Z3 in the EN power zones for Stryd), 4 miles Z1, the 2 x 1 mile Z4, 1 mile Z1. Couldn't hit and hold Z4 power, but just went as best as could, and mile 19 was dead on Z4 pace at a 6:45. Got 3 segment PRs on Strava.
63 consecutive days of running. 46 miles for the week. 50 mile avg over last 4 weeks says Strava.
Also, do I really need to start paying for Final Surge at the end of this month if I am not starting the Outseason until Feb? Seems unfair to pay for Dec, Jan, and Feb if not using it.
Well, we have a semi problem/issue. I'm loving my Stryd. Thing is great. Pretty powerful tool. When useable.
As mentioned previous, I prefer to race in as minimalist of a shoe as possible. Its what my feet like. But the Stryd doesn't really work with my sub 4 ounce racing flats. I won't be using those anyway. Stryd is accurate and consistent across a wide range of my shoes. Kinvara 7, Floatride, Altra Escalante and Escalante 1.5, Salming R21 and Race 5. Pace, HR, power, it all lines up across the board in those shoes. Well, got a pair of the Escalante Racers. These are by no means a minimalist shoe. Basically the Escalante 1.5 with a less substantial upper to cut some weight. Still a heavy shoe by my standards . Over 7.5 ounces.
So here is the issue. This shoe is awesome. Its fast, springy, and super comfortable, and I honestly believe its a much faster shoe than the Escalante 1.5. Knocked out a 6:20 mile for mile 8 last night and it felt easy, and HR was actually slightly low, where the night before, breaking 6:50 in the Escalante 1.5 was a seriously hard effort at the proscribed watts, and as mentioned, I couldn't even hold the Z4 watts while hitting Z4 pace.
So, the problem, the Stryd is showing 30-50+ watts LESS than in all my other shoes on the Escalante Racer.
So, do I throw power out on race day and run by pace, with a slight nod to RPE? Or wear slower shoes (1.5's), run by power, and possibly leave a lot of time on the course? I do notice the 1.5's will retain a bit of moisture and start to feel a bit heavy/sluggish as I get deeper and deeper into a long run.
I'm feeling the best I ever have going into a race of any kind or distance. Actually feeling confident that I can go out there an destroy it. I can see either scenario bringing me great success on race day. And I can see either scenario having me blow up toward the end as I do what I do, and chase a super fast time, risking a late stage blow up.
My goals/objectives:
<3:15 is goal, will be satisfied, but feel I could have done better. Slight disappointment.
<3:13 happy, did really well.
<3:10 very happy, reaching potential, had a great day, raced well and smart.
<3:07 Hit my ability and full potential. Raced to a level I should be able to race and applied my effort correctly.
Have been doing my long runs 100% by power the last several weeks and not even having pace as a data field. Have a 16 miler on Saturday and will give the Racers another go and see how the power numbers look, but will run it by pace and see how horrid the power discrepancy is when I upload the data and compare it to the past few 16-20 milers.
@Brian Terwilliger - just catching up here, thanks for your patience. Lots of waiting for me to do, and as always I appreciate the detail.
Excited for your adjustments in the quality of your 20 mile run. The fact that you’re able to hit those segment TR’s across a 20 mile run shows the quality of your pacing and your current running strength. Can’t ask for much more than that. It’s almost time to start freaking out about your taper! 😂
I honestly can’t answer those questions about your Stryd. That’s a great question for the Stryd team on their forms. They are super good about responding and can probably give you more insight as to why some of those shoes shows such different Watts. I personally run in three different shoes and have not noticed the same difference across my Cliftons, my Stinsons, and my Nike Vaporflys.
Or rather, I am certainly faster in the Nikes, but that is reflected in higher White’s which equate odyssey to the higher speed. I do not experience the same “decoupling” that you experience between reality and Watts displayed.
I would encourage you to run as much as possible in the new shoes that you want to racing, simply because you need to break them in anyway. On top of that, you can use this time at these new zones to affectively re-calibrate your understanding of what you hope to achieve in terms of Watts on race day. Just use those displayed Watts on the new shoe as the new normal. In other words if you were hoping to run to 80 and in the new shoe the heart rate and pace that used to give you 280 now Corresponds to a 325 because of the shoes. Then 325 is your new 280. Make sense?
Well, marathon training is in the bag. To close to race day to get any fitter or faster, so just knock out the runs as scheduled, rest, stay healthy, and avoid injury and then hope for the best on race day.
The Stryd is a bit all over the place on these Escalante Racers. Its pretty solid at slower paces and lines up pretty well with my other shoes. It seems to be the faster efforts, and particularly the Z4 and faster that it shows a way low power number. Will see how some of the faster intervals go over the next week.
Short version of race plan.
Start out @7:20/25 a mile pace, settle in, get a groove going on my cadence and form. Monitor the Stryd to see what its showing for power. If its working, great, if not, well, pace and RPE it is for the day. Plan to hold this pace for 10K, then drop slightly 7:15/20. If systems are still functioning and feeling good, make my mental commitment around mile 16 on when I am taking the limiter off and going for it. Either mile 18 or 20. and roll the dice on pushing pace. Hopefully the Stryd is behaving and I can run on power and not pace. If it is, I think I will have a faster day than by pace. We shall see. I'm a bit tempted to run in my Escalante 1.5 instead of the Racers as I am confident in the power number in those shoes. I'm bringing both pair and will make a game day decision. If its brutal cold like last year (20s), I may wear the 1.5 just for the little bit of extra warmth they will provide. They Racers are see through.
But ya, the marathon training is in the bag, done, and now its maintenance mode. Brain has shut off, not thinking about it any more. Cruise control.
My post race plan is to just keep running every day (hit 71 days today). And re-introduce my butt to the saddle with a couple or 3 easy rides a week on Zwift through January. Hoping to not have the saddle sore issues I get early last season. The slower introduction of the bike may help in that area I hope. So, with that being the plan (unless you have a better idea of how to spend Dec and the bulk of January), here is what is on tap for 2019. Put this in your crockpot and let it simmer and come back to me after the marathon with a roadmap/plan for the year.
My registered races.
Krispy Kreme Challenge, Feb 2nd. For fun.
Diva Half Marathon May 5th. Potentially a hot and 100% humidity race. Looking at this for end of out season test.
Run The Quay 15K challenge, June 1st. 15K a challenge? Yep. 10K at 7 AM. 5K at 8:30 AM. That break between them is killer. And it is HILLY. Real hilly.
Place Holder: Looking at Mussleman in Geneva NY at the end of July (Half Iron), or Lake Logan Half Iron by Charlotte August 4th I believe. Super hilly bike. Both races are iffy. But I think at least a half iron should be done if life schedule allows.
IRONMAN Maryland Sept 28th. The only race I care about all year. The entire year should be designed around, and focused on absolutely destroying this race.
My initial thoughts were to start the Out Season last week of January or beginning of Feb, ending with the Diva Half Marathon test. Then a heavy bike focus block while continuing to run every day till beginning of July with some swimming included. Maybe 2 a week. Then kick into full on dedicated IM training.
I liked how you structured your 2018 with a singular focus on Kona as described in the podcast. I think a similar plan would work well for me, but I don't have the schedule flexibility or ability to be putting in 400 mile weeks on the bike, 200 is about my limit from a time available perspective. And being in an office job, doing a lot of Zwift racing would be tough as I don't have flexibility in my day to do such. I have set windows in the morning and evening of when I can train. And I can't be knocking out 3 AM rides for 2.5 hours. And until the start of dedicated IM training, the daily training window is pretty tight. I'm far more flexible and the family is far more understanding once we get into a 12-14 week window from race day. Then training comes first. But until then, it comes 2nd mostly.
My IMMD goals, sub 1 hour swim, especially if wet suit legal. Sub 4:45 bike (Thats pushing it, so sub 5 is reality). Sub 3:30 run.
I'm a bit torn on how aggressive I should get for volume though. I believe huge volume is needed, but my body often responds better to a lower volume approach with real high intensity. At least at the half iron distance. But for a full, bigger volume is obviously needed. Finding the balance on just how brutal of an intensity level I can push while still getting in high volume is going to be the trick I have to figure out. The minimalist plan worked great for the White Lake Half. But I don't think the minimalist full iron plan is enough.
So let it sit and stew for a bit, roll some ideas around your Harvard educated head, and lets lay out a roadmap that gets me to the start line of IMMD ready and able to do the best I am capable of that day.
And we haven't had a phone call since right after Choo last year. Should I schedule one and we can chat after the marathon for a quick recap and discussion about the above and 2019 plans?
On Edit: After last nights run, I'm more confused than ever on what shoe to wear for the marathon next weekend, and whats going on with Stryd. Z5 pace in the Escalante Racers (<6:20) into a stiff headwind, and pushing 260 watts? Please. Heading out for tonights. Has 2 Z4 miles in it. Wearing the Escalante 1.5 tonight. Will see what the watts are. Should be 310ish.
Edit #2: Stomach issues ended last nights run at 3.5 miles out of 8. But Stryd was reading accurate power in the Escalante 1.5s. Tonight have 6 x 800 meter repeats. Will again wear the 1.5s. I think for piece of mind, accurate power, and confidence in said power I'm going to wear them for the marathon. Hopefully the stomach issues go away as they have been hanging around for about a week.
Edit #3: 6 x 800 meters went well last night. Did them in the Escalante 1.5. Power readings were what seemed to be appropriate. But I'm back to waffling on shoes and still thinking of the racers. Going to wear them for tomorrows run.
Consider all of this officially some rain in my brain. We should definitely talk in mid December to hash out a plan and to catch up post Marathon. You can set up a call with me here: https://calendly.com/pmccrann/15min
You might find it helpful to have a “Last Lap Avg power” field on the watch so you can see how you were doing a relative to your current lap. That will allow you to also confirm that you were on track recently versus just being on track now.
I think your plan is perfect, can’t wait to see it unfold.
Going with the pace based example provided above. Weather is less than ideal. Cold and raining is forecast. The Escalante 1.5s that produce great power accuracy have a habit of retaining moisture. So with it expected to be a rainy and wet day, I have to go with the racers and hope they don't hold moisture. I don't think they will. I know my racing flats are amazing in wet conditions, but they are a total random number generator from what I can see on the Stryd so they are out. Though they would be the perfect shoe for the conditions.
If the Escalante Racers are producing accurate power numbers, great. If not, all by REP and pace. Will see how it goes. Hopefully its not too cold or raining to hard. I don't mind either on their own, in fact like them. A nice 35-40 degree marathon is ideal for me. But I don't need, want, or have any interest in 40 something degrees and pouring rain.
Sounds like a plan. Remember, keep your extremities warm and gloves and a good heart. Maybe even arm warmers. You could always take those off and keep them for later in the day. You do not want to overdress your core.
Sounds like you have me the best possible choice regarding your shoes. I was talking yesterday with @Tim Sullivanand he reminded me the impact of changing your weight daily has on the Stryd power meter. Wondering if you are syncing your weight with anything that could be causing that variability in your data?
I never update my weight in anything. It may or may not synch to apple health or something on my phone. But even if it does, I don't change those numbers.
There was a big post in the Stryd FB group about weight and power with Stryd. It was way beyond my mental abilities to understand 90% of it. But I thought the gist was that as far as raw power, weight has no impact. So if I change my weight to 250 pounds from the current 175 or whatever I have it at, the power number produced on my watch would not change. Its just the watts to kg numbers that change thus race predictors, and other metrics and data produced and stored. But not the actual, at that moment live power numbers.
Maybe I am totally wrong. But either way, I don't update my weight. I've thought about getting one of those fancy smart scales. But ya, probably wouldn't use it frequent enough or properly to make a difference in how I eat and train. I do need to drop weight for maximum speed on the bike at MD and more efficient running, but my understanding is that a few extra pounds on a flat course is advantageous on the bike vs being a skinny little stick. But either way, should drop a few. Or at least drop some fat and not worry so much about weight as long as muscle mass is increasing. Who knows.
As far as my clothing for marathon, wearing my Desoto Mobius tri shorts. Awesome pockets. No pad. Comfy and versitle. Wearing my EN Tri Top. Its super nipple friendly. Very important in a marathon. And EN Arm warmers will pull up and roll down or take off as the days conditions warrant. Cloth painters gloves and a visor to round out the gear.
3:13:26 for the Kiawah Island Marathon. Old PR was 3:15:16 in Feb 2015. BQ'd by a ton (though probably not running, but wife may force me. Just doesn't interest me.) 3rd in AG (45-49).
The Stryd worked perfect! And thank god it did. The course is more tree lined than the dreaded tobacco trail. So GPS was all over the place. Avg Watts were 282. 285 was the high end of target. Last 3 miles the energy level just started to fade. No wall. Just a fade. So that dragged the average down a little.
Avg HR 148. Cadence 167. Which is really high for me. If memory serves, was 162 for my 1:29:36 half marathon PR. Which is 32 seconds per mile faster pace than today. I honestly think the Stryd has done more to bring my cadence up than my past attempts at focusing on it.
And the 5 hour drive home after the race was worse than the race! Time to drink all the beer. #WorkWorks
BOOM - so impressive! I was out of pocket this weekend otherwise I would’ve replied sooner. So beastly. I hope you savor this one because you really did a lot of work to make it happen. And it’s not easy to get it done this late in the year. I’ll dive in today.
@Coach Patrick I've concluded, and pretty much knew it was going to be the case, that under fueling during the race would cause a late loss of energy and thus power/speed. Had been having stomach issues and they were still around the day before the race and didn't want to risk a collapse due to potty breaks and having to slow to a jog because of my stomach. So made a decision that I'd have to greatly reduce my liquid and GU and Blocks intake to prevent stomach issues later in the race. I only took in under 400 calories from GU and Shot Blocks and less than 20 ounces of GE that was mixed at about half strength. Also had a much smaller than normal breakfast. So I was under fueled at the start line and didn't take in near enough calories/carbs during the race. Probably sub 3:12 if I could have taken in a bit more liquid and a few hundred more calories between miles 13 and 20 for the late stage boost.
Kiawah on sale today for $42 for next year. NO NO NO NO NO!!!! With an IM 2 months prior, not a good idea. But 2020 is a real possibility. Its a great race and a fun course. I really enjoyed it. About as much as a marathon can be enjoyed.
So smart. The fact that you have a confidence to make adjustments like that speaks volumes about your experience. For everyone watching he should know that your personal best is not by accident!
Alright, just a quick heads up. From talking with Brenda, it appears I must cancel my EN membership and rejoin to get the $97 a month price that includes Final Surge. Otherwise its $99 +$5 ($104).
Why I can't just click the $97 radio button and switch my membership from its current one is beyond me, but I guess that doesn't work with how the system is built and this would actually cause me to be charge twice a month ($97 and $99).
Hopefully the goodies I've built up here and elsewhere over the past 2+ years don't vanish. Especially the benefits that kick in at 3 years of membership.
If you know of another way of maintaining current membership, and having the FS access without having to pay an extra $85 a year over the new $97 option let me know quick like. Thanks!
Comments
@Coach Patrick
Wow. What a difference shoes make. Ever since the first test, where I thought the numbers were wacky so I have been running in more "traditional" running shoes for lack of a better term, and not my minimalist racing flats. Have been getting far more consistent numbers across all pairs at all paces. The racing flats really seem to produce wildly false low watts with odd ball super high spikes in power for no reason.
Redid the 3/9 test tonight wearing my Altra Escalante 1.5's. They are a heavy (to me) 8 ounce shoe. But an awesome workhorse trainer. Gonna get the Altra Vanish (4 oz) and hope it produces accurate power numbers as I much prefer lighter shoes for race day.
3 minute power 355 watts, 5:36 min/mi. 74 watts more than in the racing flats. I was 10 sec a mile faster on pace today than previous test. 9 minute power was 332, 6:12 min/mi. I was 13 seconds a mile pace faster today than previous test. 57 watts more than the racing flats. Even better, the first mile and the time from mile to 9 minutes were at the exact same pace and within 1 watt. 332 for first mile, 333 for mile to 9 minutes. No crazy surges or dying over the last few minutes. I believe these are legit numbers.
I'm on Week 17 of 24 on the Marathon Advanced plan. 16 miler this weekend. I'm going to try and throw pace out the window and run power. We shall see how it goes. Gonna be strange. Based on the power numbers I've been seeing on runs at various paces, the EN Power Zones will have me running slightly slower paces per zone than the EN Pace zones. Can always try to kick it up a little on marathon day if feeling good. But goal is a killer run at IMMD. So long time to work on this. And one more 5K test on plan that I will do the 3/9 test instead of. Its almost as evil, but not quite.
30 straight days of running! Whooo! Will hit 1,000 miles for the year tomorrow. Strava has me averaging 47.3 miles a week over the last 4 weeks. Which is a HUGE increase in weekly mileage over Jan through August. Like near double. And feeling good, not stressed, fatigued (beyond normal), or that hey, I need to back off feeling. Hopefully it continues.
That’s great to know about the shoes and I like your path for a solution. Moving forward I think the more durable the train or you have the better, especially given the mileage are putting up. I will sacrifice to wait for durability during this time. You can always throw in something later for the race itself after one or two short pre-race workouts.
Try the room with Power this weekend and just see how you feel. We can always adjust the power numbers as needed to get closer to your zones but let’s see what a true power run does for your overall speed. He might be underestimated just how much faster/hard or you can run on the descents to make up the time you “lose” climbing under control.
Another nice element of power is that you can map out your run course and then trained specifically for intervals in certain sections. For example if you’re Marathon has some form of a hill at the 60 minute mark, you can replicate that even on a flat run by increasing your wattage from normal marathon pace to climbing pace for that 10’ segment.
@Coach Patrick
Zone 3 and 4 power are pretty darn close to Z3 and Z4 pace. And Z5 is well, Z5. Its Z1. TRP, and Z2 that are well behind. Particularly TRP and Z2.
Marathon is on a dead flat course. The only thing around here that is flat is the American Tobacco Trail which is an old railroad track bed. Its a 20 mile straight, tree lined path. Nicknamed The Tree Tunnel. Mind numbingly boring and I absolutely hate that place. I may do next Saturdays long run there. The only issue is that having heavy tree cover, GPS is wonky and the watch will read some crazy pace numbers, well on the slow side. So it could end up being a very poor test of how power matches pace on a long flat run vs the never ending rolling and hilly stuff I have to run on normal street running. The last thing I want to do is go and run lap after lap after lap on a track for an extended period to get a flat course power reading. Who knows.
Since you have power, we know that the runs in the tree covered area will be consistent. It’s just a function of whether not they match up your GPS pace. This means that we are guaranteed to get a good run for you even without even though there’s an outside chance you might not get good pace information. I would still consider that to be a win.
Also, remember that we don’t have to run two hours to identify the correlation between Payson power. You can easily go out for a 5 mile run and see what the correlation is. We don’t get the fatigue factor but I know you are very good at determining paces and effort.
Well, maybe the zones are on track. Not sure yet. Today did 5 miles Z1 power (248). Avg'd 246 and had a pace of 8:23. Z1 pace is 8:24. I think Z2 is the real gap between pace (7:09) and power (264-273). But will see. I'm going to do my best to ignore pace and just run power zones here on out until the next 5K test on plan that I will substitute the Stryd 3/9 test for.
Z2 pace is supposed Marathon Pace. 7:09. But reality is, I would be happy sub 7:20. Sub 7:15 and I would be thrilled. So now the trick is to figure out what power I have to run to hit 7:15, and then determine if thats a power I can sustain for 26 miles on a flat course. After the next power test we will get together and figure out a power plan for race day and take it from there.
@Coach Patrick
Quick update and maybe a sorta question.
Week 18 Marathon Advanced plan. Race Day Dec 8.
42 straight days of running. 51.3 miles for the week, 201.6 MTD (3 days left to go). This will be my highest volume month ever by quite a bit. Have done over 200 twice before a couple years ago, but just a bit over. Depending on how many I have after Tuesday, I may extend Wednesday's Z1 steady on hills enough to get to 220.
Today was 16. 5 Z1, 3 Z2, 3 Z3, 3 Z1, 2 best effort. Did it at the Tobacco Trail and knew pace would be unusable. When I'm pushing 290 watts and my watch says 8:45 pace, you know its garbage. Thats why I avoid that place if at all possible. You really have no idea what you're doing. And when you finish your run and upload it, you get wildly different numbers in Garmin and Strava. And even within the same platform. While avg pace for the run matches up as thats just distance/time. But miles are different, some quite a bit. Such as in Strava, the last 2 miles on the trail is a segment. I got a PR on it avg 6:35 a mile. Yet my Strava splits give me a 6:58 and a 6:53 for mile 15 and 16.
But set up my plan based on watts and was able to hit and hold all my zone watt targets. Really felt I could push higher numbers as I felt good the whole time. Next week its 18 miles as 30/50/20. Plan obviously is based on paces, but, ya, no good there so will come up with a watt plan that is close to what my limited running with power knowledge can think of. Off of the data I have gathered so far, and the paces I see on my watch out on the road at various power levels, I think 280 (or a tick higher) is probably close to the number I need to average to hit my goal time. The Stryd Race Power Calculator in the app says I should run a marathon at 271. So we are pretty close.
So my thoughts, 1 mile Z1 jog to get warmed and loosened up a little. Then do the run. 30% of 18 is 5.4. Do this around 260-65. Tough window to hold, but will really just try to not go above 270 or dip to low. Then 9 at 280-90. Remainder, 3.6 miles, best effort, meaning trying to hold above 290. Thoughts? I ideas? For reference, my CP in the stryd power center is 321.
Of course, come race day, being an idiot, I'll just line up with the target time pacer and have a go at it. LOL.
As annoying as the different numbers are, this is all part of the process of learning how to reconcile your power with your heart rate with your piece. Another words, if we zoom out far enough it’s all good. 👍
I think your plan for the race simulation run is perfect. I’m not so much worried about the pieces that you get out of it because we can always retroactively do the math on your total run time minus the 1st mile. I more want to see how your power pacing sets you up from the heart rate perspective. Please also don’t forget about your nutrition! Sending you vibes for good weather
@Coach Patrick
Nutrition nailed down. Vodka and gummy bears. Kidding. Sorta. I do like gummy bears on the bike when I stop to refill bottles. But they can be a pain to eat while running with a jacked HR and breathing heavy.
Unlike a lot of marathons, they only have aid stations every other mile. My plan currently is to wear my belt with four 9 ounce bottles. Gatorade Endurance with a pinch of base salt added. Really wearing it more as a backup than a fuel plan. Weather should be cool to cold. So sweat loss will be minimal. They have gatorade on course. And plan on a cup or two every aid station and supplement with the GE, or the reverse. Probably start with the GE to fort load calories, and finish off with regular gatorade to have lighter stuff in stomach for the later part. Work over the next month is going to be to figure out how often to suck down a GU pack. I figure my burn rate is going to be around 800 calories an hour. Current half ass plan is to start GU at mile 4, and have 1 every 4 miles, then every 3 miles (15, 18, 21), then another at 23 if my stomach is good and not full, burping, or sloshy and give it what I have left for the final 5K. Thinking/hoping thats enough calories with taking in 3 to 5 ounces of Gatorade or GE every mile. Won't start drinking till mile 2 as I'll suck down a bit and have a GU prior to start. I'll have caffeine in 2 of the bottles for the later stages of the race, along with caffeinated GU.
This may be horribly wrong. We shall see how it goes for 18 on Saturday following the plan up to mile 15 as there is no point in a GU after that. Open to suggestions.
Added 10/31: 45 day run streak. 220 miles in October. Starting to get that calf tweak. Will keep an eye on it and go get needled if needed to get ahead of it.
Carrie knows bottles will be a pain. If you recall, I put some salt water solution into bottles in my belts. Then at the station to escort a little bit of that in to the regular Gatorade it to “endurance-ify” it. That saves you almost 20 ounces of fluid across 26 miles. Just a thought.
In terms of the food, your breakfast is the most important meal of the day that should be consumed about two hours prior.
There’s no point in having extra Gels, or rather, gels more frequently towards the end. You will not be in a position to really process them. Since you like gummy bears, why don’t you eat cliff blocks? You can carry a sleeve of black cherry caffeinated ones I have one of those tucked in your cheek every 2 miles starting at mile 14. Maybe one caffeinated gel tucked in your shorts in case you need an extra kick around mile 20.
Hope 18 miler goes well!
@Coach Patrick
I do like the blocks and use them on the bike from time to time. Will hit REI and grab some. Not sure why I didn't think of it. I really like those Honey Stinger waffles but man, they just crumble to a million pieces when you carry them. So I limit those to treadmill and trainer sessions.
My 4 bottle belt is really like wearing nothing at all. Its shockingly comfortable. Doesn't bounce. And honestly, the placebo effect from piece of mind of having it outweighs the weight carried.
After Tuesday's Z5 repeats, became super fatigued (work contributed), so bailed on Thursdays longish run and just knocked out a short Z1 yesterday and today to keep streak alive and log miles. Saturday's 18 miler is more important. Feel good. Think it will go well. Lots of big storms tonight. Hopefully they are gone and tomorrow is not a sog fest. Hopefully temp drops. Been in the 70s and humid as hell. Will report back tomorrow sometime after run.
Sounds good. I just have this visual of you, starving, opening or waffle could have your current both of your fingers screaming NOOOOOOOO! 😂 Good call on the bed with training. At this point it’s all about the long run, you are on a roll.
More mentally difficult than physically today. I really hate the tobacco trail. But best place to do an uninterrupted, and safe long run.
Stryd Data https://www.stryd.com/powercenter/run/5887492013424640
Strava https://www.strava.com/activities/1943345176
Was still pretty fatigued this morning. Mentally shot from the rest of the week. Wife travels for work and I got to be Mr Mom half the week. Oh joy.
I think trying to hit 280 for an avg power for the marathon may be a bit on the high side. But maybe the training and taper will get me there. 270 is probably a safe target. But knowing me, I'll line up with the 3:15 pacer and then make a decision on where the line is at 13, 18, or 20 on when I attempt to drop the pacer and go.
HR was steady/flat and at a # that I am more than comfortable with maintaining for a long time.
Trail closed next Saturday morning for a race so will have to run on a less than optimal road for the 14. And next Tuesday is test day. Will redo the 3/9 and see if the numbers have budged. Not really expecting much. Will likely all depend on what kind of shape my body and brain are in vs actual fitness.
Now beer.
I think that’s a great run, especially because you are fatigued. He basically ran 315 pace for 18 miles are 142 heart rate. That’s an Iron Man heart race. Of course fatigue plays a role in that, but I think you are right on track. The key here is to balance the work and the necessary recovery. Especially when you are experiencing significant life stress. Like being Mr. mom for a whole week! 😱
edit - I think the 280 power target is a good feeling for you on race day. I am OK with you running with the 315 group, but not if you exceed 280 on any particular hill or section. That should position you well to be strong at the end of the race to close it out.
@Coach Patrick
Well crap. The fastest pacer for the marathon is 3:25. Looks like I'm on my own.
20 miler this Saturday. Week 21, Marathon Advanced plan. Undecided on how and where to run it.
While I hate the tobacco trail, its safe and uninterrupted. But, GPS is useless for pace. But, I'm running with power. So just hit my zones and keep on keeping on.
But on the flip side, looking at running on the street and doing it by pace and then looking at what the power was. Particularly for the 8 mile stretch at Z2, which is where I need to be pace wise. Though my EN Run Pace Zones are in reality sightly faster than what they would be if I were to do a legit 5K time trial to set zones right now. I couldn't do a 19:20 5K right now is my guess, which is what I did when my zones were set last out season. Z2 is currently 7:09. Need to go 7:25 or better to crack 3:15. Real Z2 is probably in the middle of those. But do I have the endurance and stamina to keep that pace come mile 18, 20, 24, 26? Thats the question. Was hoping for the pacer at 3:15 more to hold me back for the beginning than push me at the end.
Have a 5K time trial on plan Tuesday. Nope, nope, nope. LOL. Doing the 3/9 Stryd test. As stated before, not really expecting much if any increase in numbers from a few weeks ago, and certainly not enough of a boost to really drive my CP up by a significant amount. The Stryd marathon race predictor/power estimator thingy tells me to run at 271. I suspect I do need to be closer to, if not slightly over 280 to hit my goal. While 10 watts over for a half or full IM bike is the kiss of death for the run, is 10 watts that big of a difference on a run that the wall will be hit between 18-20? Don't know. New to this power thing.
And while I am not a swag hag, and unlike too many people, I don't run to collect medals, they just released a pic of the medal and its so hideously bad it made me want to sell my bib.
Let’s see what we get out of the data from this weekends long run as that will give us a great deal of information. The weather is becoming more relevant to race day, your fatigue is there right now so the numbers are slightly surprised, and will be able to see the difference between higher and lower Watts relative to the pieces it gives you. Almost there!
~ Coach P
Testing, meh.
Bailed. Did the warm up then the 3 minute. Came in at LOWER watts. 351 vs 355 last time. But, pace was 8 seconds a mile faster. 5:28 vs 5:36. Cooler temps no doubt helped. So not sure if thats a sign of being more efficient or just more favorable temps. But my HR was through the roof. Not sure if it was an optical sensor issue or real. Didn't feel like it was sky high. And normally my HR drops and drops fast when I stop a hard effort. It didn't. Which makes me lean toward sensor issue. Especially since it was cold out. My calf was getting tweaky on the cool down between the 3 and 9 minute test, so I just stopped. Didn't see a need to continue and risk upsetting my calf. Tomorrows 200 and 400 meter Z5 repeats are more important to hit strong than a single 9 minute run. Hopefully weather is halfway decent on Saturday for the 20 miler. I'm the bike lead for a 5K at 7 AM. Then throwing bike in the car and heading to the tobacco trail is the current plan. Parking lot doesn't open till 8 AM so the 5K isn't delaying me and who knows, might give me a little bit of a warm up. That I will lose afterward and driving to the trail. If weather is garbage, will have to push it to Sunday.
When its upper 30s and raining, you hit the treadmill. Mine died so to the gym I went. Good lord, the treadmill without a fan is evil.
And you learn something new every day. Was poking around the Stryd app. In the race predictor it has me listed as speed demon. I thought it was auto selected based off workouts or whatever. But hey, you can change it! So I did. Speed Demon has my marathon target watts at 273. Balanced Runner 285. And Aerobic Monster at 302! I can assure you, 302 is not happening. Likely ever. Thats as accurate as the Garmin race predictor. 2:53 marathon my ass. So with a 273 and a 285, looks like 280 is probably a realistic target. Just try to bounce around in the 275-285 window and push toward the end to keep it there.
@Coach Patrick
Weekend didn't go as planned. Bike lead for a 5K Saturday morning. Advertised as starting at 7:10. Actual start time? 7:35. Threw off my schedule a bit as had a jammed packed late afternoon and evening with multiple events. But not all that bad. However, it was 35 degrees. I was frozen solid and quickly decided before the race was over there was no way in hell I was going to run 20. Took me over 2 hours to defrost and approach warm after I got home. So went and ran for 30 on the treadmill at the gym just to get an easy run in. Partied hard all night Saturday till 2 AM, 20 mile run Sunday morning be damned.
Well, nailed it. 4 miles Z1 power, 8 miles upper target race pace power zone (which is mid Z3 in the EN power zones for Stryd), 4 miles Z1, the 2 x 1 mile Z4, 1 mile Z1. Couldn't hit and hold Z4 power, but just went as best as could, and mile 19 was dead on Z4 pace at a 6:45. Got 3 segment PRs on Strava.
63 consecutive days of running. 46 miles for the week. 50 mile avg over last 4 weeks says Strava.
Strava data.
https://www.strava.com/activities/1972437645
Stryd Data
Also, do I really need to start paying for Final Surge at the end of this month if I am not starting the Outseason until Feb? Seems unfair to pay for Dec, Jan, and Feb if not using it.
@Coach Patrick
Well, we have a semi problem/issue. I'm loving my Stryd. Thing is great. Pretty powerful tool. When useable.
As mentioned previous, I prefer to race in as minimalist of a shoe as possible. Its what my feet like. But the Stryd doesn't really work with my sub 4 ounce racing flats. I won't be using those anyway. Stryd is accurate and consistent across a wide range of my shoes. Kinvara 7, Floatride, Altra Escalante and Escalante 1.5, Salming R21 and Race 5. Pace, HR, power, it all lines up across the board in those shoes. Well, got a pair of the Escalante Racers. These are by no means a minimalist shoe. Basically the Escalante 1.5 with a less substantial upper to cut some weight. Still a heavy shoe by my standards . Over 7.5 ounces.
So here is the issue. This shoe is awesome. Its fast, springy, and super comfortable, and I honestly believe its a much faster shoe than the Escalante 1.5. Knocked out a 6:20 mile for mile 8 last night and it felt easy, and HR was actually slightly low, where the night before, breaking 6:50 in the Escalante 1.5 was a seriously hard effort at the proscribed watts, and as mentioned, I couldn't even hold the Z4 watts while hitting Z4 pace.
So, the problem, the Stryd is showing 30-50+ watts LESS than in all my other shoes on the Escalante Racer.
So, do I throw power out on race day and run by pace, with a slight nod to RPE? Or wear slower shoes (1.5's), run by power, and possibly leave a lot of time on the course? I do notice the 1.5's will retain a bit of moisture and start to feel a bit heavy/sluggish as I get deeper and deeper into a long run.
I'm feeling the best I ever have going into a race of any kind or distance. Actually feeling confident that I can go out there an destroy it. I can see either scenario bringing me great success on race day. And I can see either scenario having me blow up toward the end as I do what I do, and chase a super fast time, risking a late stage blow up.
My goals/objectives:
<3:15 is goal, will be satisfied, but feel I could have done better. Slight disappointment.
<3:13 happy, did really well.
<3:10 very happy, reaching potential, had a great day, raced well and smart.
<3:07 Hit my ability and full potential. Raced to a level I should be able to race and applied my effort correctly.
Have been doing my long runs 100% by power the last several weeks and not even having pace as a data field. Have a 16 miler on Saturday and will give the Racers another go and see how the power numbers look, but will run it by pace and see how horrid the power discrepancy is when I upload the data and compare it to the past few 16-20 milers.
@Brian Terwilliger - just catching up here, thanks for your patience. Lots of waiting for me to do, and as always I appreciate the detail.
Excited for your adjustments in the quality of your 20 mile run. The fact that you’re able to hit those segment TR’s across a 20 mile run shows the quality of your pacing and your current running strength. Can’t ask for much more than that. It’s almost time to start freaking out about your taper! 😂
I honestly can’t answer those questions about your Stryd. That’s a great question for the Stryd team on their forms. They are super good about responding and can probably give you more insight as to why some of those shoes shows such different Watts. I personally run in three different shoes and have not noticed the same difference across my Cliftons, my Stinsons, and my Nike Vaporflys.
Or rather, I am certainly faster in the Nikes, but that is reflected in higher White’s which equate odyssey to the higher speed. I do not experience the same “decoupling” that you experience between reality and Watts displayed.
I would encourage you to run as much as possible in the new shoes that you want to racing, simply because you need to break them in anyway. On top of that, you can use this time at these new zones to affectively re-calibrate your understanding of what you hope to achieve in terms of Watts on race day. Just use those displayed Watts on the new shoe as the new normal. In other words if you were hoping to run to 80 and in the new shoe the heart rate and pace that used to give you 280 now Corresponds to a 325 because of the shoes. Then 325 is your new 280. Make sense?
@Coach Patrick
Well, marathon training is in the bag. To close to race day to get any fitter or faster, so just knock out the runs as scheduled, rest, stay healthy, and avoid injury and then hope for the best on race day.
The Stryd is a bit all over the place on these Escalante Racers. Its pretty solid at slower paces and lines up pretty well with my other shoes. It seems to be the faster efforts, and particularly the Z4 and faster that it shows a way low power number. Will see how some of the faster intervals go over the next week.
Short version of race plan.
Start out @7:20/25 a mile pace, settle in, get a groove going on my cadence and form. Monitor the Stryd to see what its showing for power. If its working, great, if not, well, pace and RPE it is for the day. Plan to hold this pace for 10K, then drop slightly 7:15/20. If systems are still functioning and feeling good, make my mental commitment around mile 16 on when I am taking the limiter off and going for it. Either mile 18 or 20. and roll the dice on pushing pace. Hopefully the Stryd is behaving and I can run on power and not pace. If it is, I think I will have a faster day than by pace. We shall see. I'm a bit tempted to run in my Escalante 1.5 instead of the Racers as I am confident in the power number in those shoes. I'm bringing both pair and will make a game day decision. If its brutal cold like last year (20s), I may wear the 1.5 just for the little bit of extra warmth they will provide. They Racers are see through.
But ya, the marathon training is in the bag, done, and now its maintenance mode. Brain has shut off, not thinking about it any more. Cruise control.
My post race plan is to just keep running every day (hit 71 days today). And re-introduce my butt to the saddle with a couple or 3 easy rides a week on Zwift through January. Hoping to not have the saddle sore issues I get early last season. The slower introduction of the bike may help in that area I hope. So, with that being the plan (unless you have a better idea of how to spend Dec and the bulk of January), here is what is on tap for 2019. Put this in your crockpot and let it simmer and come back to me after the marathon with a roadmap/plan for the year.
My registered races.
Krispy Kreme Challenge, Feb 2nd. For fun.
Diva Half Marathon May 5th. Potentially a hot and 100% humidity race. Looking at this for end of out season test.
Run The Quay 15K challenge, June 1st. 15K a challenge? Yep. 10K at 7 AM. 5K at 8:30 AM. That break between them is killer. And it is HILLY. Real hilly.
Place Holder: Looking at Mussleman in Geneva NY at the end of July (Half Iron), or Lake Logan Half Iron by Charlotte August 4th I believe. Super hilly bike. Both races are iffy. But I think at least a half iron should be done if life schedule allows.
IRONMAN Maryland Sept 28th. The only race I care about all year. The entire year should be designed around, and focused on absolutely destroying this race.
My initial thoughts were to start the Out Season last week of January or beginning of Feb, ending with the Diva Half Marathon test. Then a heavy bike focus block while continuing to run every day till beginning of July with some swimming included. Maybe 2 a week. Then kick into full on dedicated IM training.
I liked how you structured your 2018 with a singular focus on Kona as described in the podcast. I think a similar plan would work well for me, but I don't have the schedule flexibility or ability to be putting in 400 mile weeks on the bike, 200 is about my limit from a time available perspective. And being in an office job, doing a lot of Zwift racing would be tough as I don't have flexibility in my day to do such. I have set windows in the morning and evening of when I can train. And I can't be knocking out 3 AM rides for 2.5 hours. And until the start of dedicated IM training, the daily training window is pretty tight. I'm far more flexible and the family is far more understanding once we get into a 12-14 week window from race day. Then training comes first. But until then, it comes 2nd mostly.
My IMMD goals, sub 1 hour swim, especially if wet suit legal. Sub 4:45 bike (Thats pushing it, so sub 5 is reality). Sub 3:30 run.
I'm a bit torn on how aggressive I should get for volume though. I believe huge volume is needed, but my body often responds better to a lower volume approach with real high intensity. At least at the half iron distance. But for a full, bigger volume is obviously needed. Finding the balance on just how brutal of an intensity level I can push while still getting in high volume is going to be the trick I have to figure out. The minimalist plan worked great for the White Lake Half. But I don't think the minimalist full iron plan is enough.
So let it sit and stew for a bit, roll some ideas around your Harvard educated head, and lets lay out a roadmap that gets me to the start line of IMMD ready and able to do the best I am capable of that day.
And we haven't had a phone call since right after Choo last year. Should I schedule one and we can chat after the marathon for a quick recap and discussion about the above and 2019 plans?
On Edit: After last nights run, I'm more confused than ever on what shoe to wear for the marathon next weekend, and whats going on with Stryd. Z5 pace in the Escalante Racers (<6:20) into a stiff headwind, and pushing 260 watts? Please. Heading out for tonights. Has 2 Z4 miles in it. Wearing the Escalante 1.5 tonight. Will see what the watts are. Should be 310ish.
Edit #2: Stomach issues ended last nights run at 3.5 miles out of 8. But Stryd was reading accurate power in the Escalante 1.5s. Tonight have 6 x 800 meter repeats. Will again wear the 1.5s. I think for piece of mind, accurate power, and confidence in said power I'm going to wear them for the marathon. Hopefully the stomach issues go away as they have been hanging around for about a week.
Edit #3: 6 x 800 meters went well last night. Did them in the Escalante 1.5. Power readings were what seemed to be appropriate. But I'm back to waffling on shoes and still thinking of the racers. Going to wear them for tomorrows run.
Consider all of this officially some rain in my brain. We should definitely talk in mid December to hash out a plan and to catch up post Marathon. You can set up a call with me here: https://calendly.com/pmccrann/15min
Know if the power numbers are all over the place, you can’t change the setting on the data field to smooth it out a bit. Here’s a link on how to do it. https://support.stryd.com/hc/en-us/articles/360005943713-Can-I-see-average-power-using-the-Power-Data-field-in-run-mode-on-my-Garmin-watch-
You might find it helpful to have a “Last Lap Avg power” field on the watch so you can see how you were doing a relative to your current lap. That will allow you to also confirm that you were on track recently versus just being on track now.
I think your plan is perfect, can’t wait to see it unfold.
Race plan set.
Going with the pace based example provided above. Weather is less than ideal. Cold and raining is forecast. The Escalante 1.5s that produce great power accuracy have a habit of retaining moisture. So with it expected to be a rainy and wet day, I have to go with the racers and hope they don't hold moisture. I don't think they will. I know my racing flats are amazing in wet conditions, but they are a total random number generator from what I can see on the Stryd so they are out. Though they would be the perfect shoe for the conditions.
If the Escalante Racers are producing accurate power numbers, great. If not, all by REP and pace. Will see how it goes. Hopefully its not too cold or raining to hard. I don't mind either on their own, in fact like them. A nice 35-40 degree marathon is ideal for me. But I don't need, want, or have any interest in 40 something degrees and pouring rain.
Sounds like a plan. Remember, keep your extremities warm and gloves and a good heart. Maybe even arm warmers. You could always take those off and keep them for later in the day. You do not want to overdress your core.
Sounds like you have me the best possible choice regarding your shoes. I was talking yesterday with @Tim Sullivanand he reminded me the impact of changing your weight daily has on the Stryd power meter. Wondering if you are syncing your weight with anything that could be causing that variability in your data?
I never update my weight in anything. It may or may not synch to apple health or something on my phone. But even if it does, I don't change those numbers.
There was a big post in the Stryd FB group about weight and power with Stryd. It was way beyond my mental abilities to understand 90% of it. But I thought the gist was that as far as raw power, weight has no impact. So if I change my weight to 250 pounds from the current 175 or whatever I have it at, the power number produced on my watch would not change. Its just the watts to kg numbers that change thus race predictors, and other metrics and data produced and stored. But not the actual, at that moment live power numbers.
Maybe I am totally wrong. But either way, I don't update my weight. I've thought about getting one of those fancy smart scales. But ya, probably wouldn't use it frequent enough or properly to make a difference in how I eat and train. I do need to drop weight for maximum speed on the bike at MD and more efficient running, but my understanding is that a few extra pounds on a flat course is advantageous on the bike vs being a skinny little stick. But either way, should drop a few. Or at least drop some fat and not worry so much about weight as long as muscle mass is increasing. Who knows.
As far as my clothing for marathon, wearing my Desoto Mobius tri shorts. Awesome pockets. No pad. Comfy and versitle. Wearing my EN Tri Top. Its super nipple friendly. Very important in a marathon. And EN Arm warmers will pull up and roll down or take off as the days conditions warrant. Cloth painters gloves and a visor to round out the gear.
@Coach Patrick
3:13:26 for the Kiawah Island Marathon. Old PR was 3:15:16 in Feb 2015. BQ'd by a ton (though probably not running, but wife may force me. Just doesn't interest me.) 3rd in AG (45-49).
The Stryd worked perfect! And thank god it did. The course is more tree lined than the dreaded tobacco trail. So GPS was all over the place. Avg Watts were 282. 285 was the high end of target. Last 3 miles the energy level just started to fade. No wall. Just a fade. So that dragged the average down a little.
Avg HR 148. Cadence 167. Which is really high for me. If memory serves, was 162 for my 1:29:36 half marathon PR. Which is 32 seconds per mile faster pace than today. I honestly think the Stryd has done more to bring my cadence up than my past attempts at focusing on it.
And the 5 hour drive home after the race was worse than the race! Time to drink all the beer. #WorkWorks
Stryd file https://www.stryd.com/powercenter/run/6285270170468352
Strava https://www.strava.com/activities/2006731536
BOOM - so impressive! I was out of pocket this weekend otherwise I would’ve replied sooner. So beastly. I hope you savor this one because you really did a lot of work to make it happen. And it’s not easy to get it done this late in the year. I’ll dive in today.
@Coach Patrick I've concluded, and pretty much knew it was going to be the case, that under fueling during the race would cause a late loss of energy and thus power/speed. Had been having stomach issues and they were still around the day before the race and didn't want to risk a collapse due to potty breaks and having to slow to a jog because of my stomach. So made a decision that I'd have to greatly reduce my liquid and GU and Blocks intake to prevent stomach issues later in the race. I only took in under 400 calories from GU and Shot Blocks and less than 20 ounces of GE that was mixed at about half strength. Also had a much smaller than normal breakfast. So I was under fueled at the start line and didn't take in near enough calories/carbs during the race. Probably sub 3:12 if I could have taken in a bit more liquid and a few hundred more calories between miles 13 and 20 for the late stage boost.
Kiawah on sale today for $42 for next year. NO NO NO NO NO!!!! With an IM 2 months prior, not a good idea. But 2020 is a real possibility. Its a great race and a fun course. I really enjoyed it. About as much as a marathon can be enjoyed.
So smart. The fact that you have a confidence to make adjustments like that speaks volumes about your experience. For everyone watching he should know that your personal best is not by accident!
Alright, just a quick heads up. From talking with Brenda, it appears I must cancel my EN membership and rejoin to get the $97 a month price that includes Final Surge. Otherwise its $99 +$5 ($104).
Why I can't just click the $97 radio button and switch my membership from its current one is beyond me, but I guess that doesn't work with how the system is built and this would actually cause me to be charge twice a month ($97 and $99).
Hopefully the goodies I've built up here and elsewhere over the past 2+ years don't vanish. Especially the benefits that kick in at 3 years of membership.
If you know of another way of maintaining current membership, and having the FS access without having to pay an extra $85 a year over the new $97 option let me know quick like. Thanks!