Updates in addition to message above: I got stitches off and she said it looked good. PA said I could walk & stationary bike without shoe on. She said if I try a cycling shoe on in a couple days & it feels ok I can try that. She said NO swimming or running for at least another week. I'm ok with that because I understand why it is needed. I just want to bike! :)
Also, I remembered today I have the Allianz insurance for AC 70.3. So that is a consideration in the "what to do about AC 70.3?" question. I have the trip booked, but I"m going to be seeing two buddies as part of the trip, so I would be ok just spectating if I had to. But I'd prefer to race. Hopefully I'll get that money back in a settlement either way. But if I use insurance, I'll be sure to get it back and get it back more quickly (I'm guessing this is a situation where I could use the insurance).
Anyway, I'll patiently await your response to the other stuff. If you have thoughts on AC70.3 now, I'd love to hear them. If you think we should wait and see, I am ok with that too (I just have to find out if there is a deadline to use the insurance). Thanks Coach P!
I am pretty sure I saw in the group me that you got the greenlight, congratulations! I’m very excited that you can start the process of rebuilding. As you noted, you don’t have that far to go to come back.
My point in the message above was just that there’s a big gap between you riding 100 miles in Colorado and where you are right now. Regaining the fitness will feel uncomfortable but do not be disappointed. Your body is ready and will ramp up quickly enough that you should be fine for Atlantic City as long as you can take care of the incision. I agree that skipping that Run is probably the best long-term play.
When you get a chance, let me know how does aerobic ride to go! Would love to see a picture of you out in the wild in the group… Just get off your bike to take the picture first! 😂
Hey @Coach Patrick , thanks a million! Ok, that makes a lot of sense.
1) I was so excited and so full of energy last night, I went ahead and did 3*12'(~4') @ Z4 HR on a stationary bike. It felt good. One important consideration I realized is that all the bikes I've done since the accident were HR-based. I was reminded that just because I can push my HR up high for a Z4 interval does not mean I am putting out the watts/speed I once could. So like you said, that may limit what I can do outside till I gain my fitness back.
2) Ok, cool. Great to hear you think I'm ok to do AC70.3. One clarification: when you said "I agree that skipping that Run is probably the best long-term play. " did you mean, at this point, I should mentally prepare to swim and bike, and then DNF the race? Or walk the 13.1 miles? I intially said I am willing to do that, but now that I know I bought race insurance, I'm having 2nd thoughts on the ROI of paying to do that swim+bike. In that case, do you think it would be worth the $350+ of race registration and paying to ship my bike (which I have not yet reserved) to get to swim & bike? I'm torn....and obviously, we can't say for sure what to do without knowing how my body reacts to running again when that time comes. (As you may have seen, I did get some good insight on GroupMe Run thread on this question after I posted this. Consensus sounds like it would be smarter to save the $$$ and use the insurance.)
PS. I'll be sure to get a picture of me back on the bike when the time comes! :)
nice work on this intervals! i hi k Hr is the best way to go as it will “limit” you to the work you can sustain until your muscles come around.
i didn’t know about the insurance— when did you get so smart!?! i agree with the RDP group...why pay to do part of a race? let’s imitate the event in training and you can Swim + Bike the HIM distance at home.
Ha ha ha! Thanks. Hopefully I can use the insurance without too much paperwork.
Will do! I got 220 miles Sat-Mon over holiday weekend. All pretty low effort & I felt great. Biggest concern was keeping foot dry and not walking around in cycling shoes with wet feet too much.
How horrible would it be for me to insert a big bike week in the off-season for fun (3rd week in October)? I would keep daily running going, assuming I am running fine by then. I have a week-long fall break and I've been thinking of doing a little 4-5 day bike tour around Michigan, visiting friends & staying with them. Planning and doing my long rides this weekend made me get really excited about exploring more of the state via biking. I would be traveling minimally & borrowing clothes from friends to sleep in/eat dinner in, so I don't carry much and can cover a lot of distance.
it was great to follow your progress over the weekend. Sometimes long ride like that I just good for the soul, never mind about the fitness!
I think the big bike week will be fine. If you had Ikelea by then you should be much healthier overall including the foot. I say why not, start planning!
:) Awesome, thanks a million @Coach Patrick ! I completely agree! Good for the soul.
Ok, cool, thanks!
Another couple longer term season questions:
Assuming I can slowly start rebuilding run fitness & durability within the week (as planned), does it still make sense to go for a marathon PR (BQ attempt ~3hr5min) in mid-march (3/17/18) given the run hiatus I had? In other words, is this ~22+ day hiatus from running enough of a dent in my run fitness/durability that a goal of being at my best run fitness ever in March is unlikely? Part of my concern is that my avg weekly mileage for 2018 was already lower than I was hoping (~22 mpw). I was planning to start building weekly mileage up incrementally all fall and winter so that I would be able to comfortably run a ton of miles in the final build to the marathon.
If I am going to try and PR a marathon on 3/17/19, what do you think about trying to get down to Austin for Rattler on 3/31/19? I wouldn't be looking to race hard at Rattler. I would do it for the fun social time with the team, and because it would be a fun epic trail run. I'm not sure if I can get away from work yet, but assuming I could make the trip, what do you think about doing the race from a season planning/fitness standpoint? And for that matter, if I did do it, 33k or 66k? I guess doing the 66k would have a more negative impact on building bike fitness for the rest of my season, but what are your thoughts? And this is all predicated on the belief that my foot will be 100% and I'll be running well by then.
As soon as I'm done recovering from the marathon on 3/17, my focus would shift to building major bike fitness to crush it at Al camp and set me up for a great 140.6 in August. THANKS!
1) Since I was behind where I wanted to be before the accident & the accident stopped me from running for 25 days, I have been lacking confidence about a BQ attempt in March 2019. I did get 12 runs in this week (week ending 9/30) and 30 total miles, so that is helping my confidence. But I'm so far from where I would need to be to stand a chance of a BQ. What do you think about not doing a marathon in the spring and instead doing one in fall 2019 on the heels of IMMT build & fitness? I'm torn and may do the March marathon anyway just to have another data point and more lessons learned in my long term journey toward Boston.
2) If I am going to try and PR a marathon on 3/17/19, what do you think about trying to get down to Austin for Rattler on 3/31/19? I'm leaning toward the 33k vs. the 66k. What do you think? It would be cool to do an ultra, but I think the longer run (and build up & recovery) would negatively impact my bike and swim a lot more. There is a 100 mile gravel road race two weeks after rattler near me and I would like to do that. So that is another reason I would lean toward 33k. Is marathon 3/17, 33k 3/31 and 100 mile gravel road race 4/13 too much? The 4/13 gravel race has 62 mile and 36 mile options and I could easily decide to do one of those instead.
3) If go big at Al Camp and end with Ultra Ragnar on 6/8, would I have enough time to recover and do Hoff camp 6/18-6/23 (just go easy for 10 days with lots of swimming)? Initially I figured I would be ok doing both since Hoff and Limbert are doing both. But Hoff isn't running Ragnar, and I am not the athlete that Limbert is. So I wanted to see what you thought?
@Larry Peters - Thanks for reaching out! Happy to follow your progress my friend....
I think it's best not to force the BQ piece. I prefer a more gradual build up and then adding something post IMMT as you suggest (like @Rory Gumina Did this year).
Since you won't be doing that BQ attempt, I think the Rattler 33k is PERFECT. Nice steady miles add up, plus this would be a TON of fun for you. It's a Win/Win...and you get to do the Gravel race.
Yes, you will be fine...it will be tough at Hoff Camp; and you'll be limited to the bike / swim there, but it's all good. Since it's not a race, if you show up sub-part you'll still have a ton of fun and build some fitness!!!!
Awesome, thanks a million! I really appreciate all the guidance.
Your idea to "not force the BQ piece" is exactly what I've been thinking more and more. And I know to have a shot at BQ, I would have to make sacrifices in bike/swim fitness early in the year (and I am loving crushing on the bike right now and really want to keep building that & carry it to next year). I love the idea of seeing where I am at IMMT and decide about fall marathon after that. I'd be more comfortable giving up the bike for a while at that point if it would play to a potential BQ. Interestingly, I've been listening to the @Rory Gumina BQ podcast this week and really enjoyed it! That is also what helped sway me more to the idea of waiting till the fall to see if a potential BQ is in the cards.
Two important clarifications:
1) I was thinking of still doing the Sharmrock marathon in early March as a benchmark and to get another marathon under my belt full of lessons learned (and hopefully use Stryd, which would give me some good data going into 2019 season). I would plan to have no expectations other than to learn a lot and hopefully PR from my 02/2017 hilly marathon. *And* importantly, I would plan to not really give up much biking or swimming.
Based on EN dogma I've read/heard, I'm guessing you might say: do a local half marathon sometime next spring instead of traveling for a full marathon, as a benchmark (which I am seriously considering). But maybe you won't? I've run two 26.2 races. One hilly (Austin, about one month before I joined EN, 02/2017) and one flat (Chicago, 10/2017, 6 months after joining EN, 2 months after my first 70.3). I had a lot more base training for Chicago than Austin, and for Austin, I trained a lot, but was ramping up quickly (~over about 6 months) from a long time of no serious running. Austin had great execution & for my fitness was a great race. Chicago, I was under rested, under-tapered, had terrible execution (my own fault) and I had put way too much pressure on myself. So I'm kinda interested in doing another marathon where I don't have to worry about the pressure of a BQ, and I can rebuild confidence that I can execute well after Chicago. And since Shamrock is a flat course, I should still crush my 26.2 PR from Austin of ~3.5 hours. It *might* also help me work harder on winter body comp. Also, if Shamrock 2019 goes well, then maybe it will set me up to try and BQ at Shamrock 2020....and I will have raced the course before. Thoughts?
2) Please clarify: "it will be tough at Hoff Camp; and you'll be limited to the bike / swim there..." are you suggesting I should limit myself to not running during Hoff Camp to avoid over stressing my body? Or just reminding me that with that much cycling, there isn't much time/energy in the day for running?
Good luck at Kona and I am sure you will crush it! It is so awesome to see you still achieving new heights in fitness, even after playing this game for so long!
@Larry Peters - OK so I think we are on the same page. If you don’t have to sign up for the marathon now then we can certainly put you on the path to train forward and see how your body responds. My big concern is just what the long-term effects of your come back will be like and whether or not that will affect your ability to run healthy each week during a marathon build.
In someway I feel like we’re kind of entering a little bit of an unknown. So I want to give it a little bit of room. At least without the pressure of having to honor the marathon entry you have purchased.
My point was just if you are going to do the Ragnar and a spring marathon that by the time you get to Hoff Camp you might need a bit of a break for more running. At some point there are diminishing returns.
Sweet, thanks a million! I think that is a good idea. I won't commit to the idea of a spring marathon. We'll see how the winter goes in terms of running. I'm still on the fence about trying to get down for Rattler 33k. But maybe if I scratch the thought of a spring marathon, I could focus on the Rattler 33k and see how that goes.
I'm probably going to race a good buddy at a 10k Turkey trot, so that should give me a bit of a baseline.
Yes, I totally understand. That makes sense. Ragnar+Hoff camp+any other spring adventures may mean that I back off from running at hoff camp.
Thanks for the kind words. I don’t want you to think that I am selling you short. You are young and strong and very committed. I see a very bright future for you. We just need to try to chart a path where your body’s readiness intersects with your mental strength. This could happen much sooner than I anticipate, so please keep up the good work. See you soon on Zwift.
Thank you for the kind words!! That means a lot. :) I did not feel at all like you were selling me short. You have so much experience and knowledge, and I really respect that. I have definitely "trained myself into the ground" multiple times, so it is important for me to prioritize recovery. I really like what you said and I am honored & humbled. I just have to keep telling myself: recovery is when I get faster/stronger.
Yes! Definitely see you on Zwift! I'm resting this weekend for my big cycling tour over "fall break" next week, so you should see some big numbers on Strava. :)
Thanks @Coach Patrick !! (And I totally saw you post your address a long time ago in the Snowmass Camp group me, but I guess it got buried before Al saw it. ;) )
@Larry Peters you are so funny about the address. I thought I posted it but I wasn’t sure. I’m getting to that age where I just can’t be 100% sure anymore.
Thanks a million for all the kind words in the November Coach Chat @Coach Patrick !! I'm glad I remembered I can listen to those like podcast. They are great!
Hey @Coach Patrick , the last time we talked about my 2019 season road map was July 2018. Some things have changed. And the road map I got then only went to the end of 2018-2019 OS. If I want to ask you about planning the rest of this 2019 season (up to my A race IMMT on 08/18/2019), do you prefer I fill out a TSR request or describe my B-events and ask questions here? Thanks!
I also have a family celebration weekend during the key final ~5 weeks or so leading up to my race. I know this isn't ideal, but they will understand if I train some during that time. I'm hoping I can train a lot before and after so it doesn't impact my build much. But I wanted to ask you about the specifics of that and a few other things after we map out my season a bit more. Thanks!
@Larry Peters The best bet is to submit services to me using the roadmap tool, and I will sketch out the year. Then you and I can go back-and-forth about how we accommodate your schedule for all the other things you have going on.
Hey @Coach Patrick , I posted in slow twitch general triathlon forum asking about IMMT training camp. I've gotten several replies, but most don't know about any camp. This one is the only one that mentioned a camp:
"Not sure where you're located, but my club - NortheastMultisport (based in Nashua, NH) - does a training camp there each year. This year it is July 18-22 (it was going to be the following weekend when I first wrote this post, but just now (2/5/19 9:38 pm), they told me they moved it one weekend forward. So this new time, 7/18-7/22 fits the EN IM plan even better. It will be over week 16 RR weekend if my calculations are correct and big run week! So awesome!). Here's the link on our website: https://northeastmultisport.com/event-info/
You could try to contact our club and see if someone not in the club could attend. " -Nate Thomas
Is that what you were thinking about? I'm going to reach out to them. I read the details about their camp. It would be week 17 (7/25-7/28) of my 20 week program. They do allow members outside their club (assuming their is room)
They said participants can follow any training schedule, but that most participants would follow somethign like this:
"Thursday arrival.
Friday: Long ride. Most will ride the full 112 mile course or a bit longer and follow it up with a short run off the bike.
Saturday: Long swim, middle distance ride, and a short run. Most will swim 2.4+ miles, ride 56+ miles, and then do a short run off the bike.
Sunday: Long Run and short swim. Distance may vary significantly by the athlete, but most will go long on the course. If there is time, some will do an easy swim prerun or a short recovery swim after their run."
Hey man, I’m sorry I forgot to connect you with dev. Colin is a great guy, and you will enjoy the camp. He is super smart and also a big dude like yourself. I expect to see a picture of you too from camp!
I might suggest you write a little longer on Saturday. Something like 56 and then back out to the highway flip it come back to the hills, I’ll be done. That will be closer to 75 miles and allows me to get a little bit more practice on those pills in and out of town.
@Coach Patrick , so "all set" means you saw my TSR request and you will get to it at some point? Sorry. You know I sometimes struggle with the obvious interpretation of a message. Thanks! (Thanks for the ride-on last night too!)
I ask because, usually, when you complete my TSR, it appears here in my micro forum. And I don't see the updated one here. Thanks!
Here's your personal Coach Thread, as promised. This is where you'll return to post all your "coach" questions as responses; I'll see them and reply. This first post is here to guide you through your first year on EN, so you can always come back here.
As you'll see in this forum, I handle all manner of edits and changes. So post away, know that I reply here usually M/W/F each week.
Power User Tip: Click the Star icon by the Title of this thread to subscribe, and you'll get email updates when I do reply.
Coach Notes
Hey man, thanks for the TSR....I don't see you in Final Surge So I can't see your plans right now. That said, I think you are ripe for the OutSeason Plan into a Bike Focus (OS is prep for Barry, Bike Focus is prep for Al)...you'll start the IM plan a bit earlier than all camp, but you'll be well on your way to the point where you can handle the bike volume and be able to do some running / cross training while you are there (Except for dumb Withrow ride day).
The big thing, as you noted, is keeping you healthy. I wouldn't worry so much about body comp outside of smart food choices. You are a strong guy, and young, I'd rather you focus on creating more strength on a good diet. Save the "need to get crafty" stuff for when you get older! 🤣
Let me know what you think!
Your Races
04/13/2019 100 mile gravel road bike race (Barry Roubaix)
05/11/2019 Riverbank 25k run. I did this in 2017 and had a good race, so eager to compare.
Al T Tude Tri Camp (6/1-6/18 2019) with Snowmass Ragnar Ultra (6/8/2019)
Ironman Mont Tremblant (2019-08-25) #IMMT_19
Season Outline
These are your recommended training plans, including the date you should start each one (sometimes you won't complete a full plan but transition to another one). You can change your plans on Final Surge by clicking on Training Plans / My Plans. Learn more about each plan on the Training Plan Central Page.
>> Last updated by Coach on 01/28/2019
On 1/28/2019 Load the OutSeason (Bike Focus) Plan, 14wks to end on 5/5/2019
>> Transition Early <<
On 4/7/2019 Load the Bike Focus Block, 6 Weeks to end on 5/18/2019
On 5/19/2019 Load the EN Full Bike Focused to end on 8/18/2019
On 8/19/2019 Load the -- Post Ironman Transition Plan, All Levels (4wks) to end on 9/15/2019
On 9/16/2019 Load the -- Run Durability for Triathletes 1 (9 months out) -- 4 weeks to end on 10/13/2019
On 10/14/2019 Load the -- Run Durability for Triathletes 2 (8 months out) -- 4 weeks to end on 11/10/2019</p>
Your Notes
I did CdA 70.3 in 06/2018 in ~5:08. It was early season for me. I did Al Camp in June 2018 with Coach P and others. It was awesome! I had a freak accident in August 2018 that prevented me from racing in Steelhead and Atlantic City 70.3. I fell through my motel floor on the morning of Steelhead in Benton Harbor.
I raced Great Lakes Relay in July 2018. That went pretty well.
I did get a small stress fracture in my foot in February 2018. But I got over that. That spot did get sore a few times in the following year, so I do have to manage it and make sure I do my pre-hab and watch run volume intensity (and avoid spiking it too high).I think my fitness is pretty good. I've been training a lot (~15-20 hours per week including cross training). My FTP is 326 watts (body weight currently 192-194 pounds --> 3.7 W/kg on light days. Trying to cut some weight.
My last run test 5k out and back (early December) put my critical run power at 357 watts. That was a 6:15 pace 5k (a few small hills, but not much climbing. Strava said it had 151 feet of gain across 3.18 miles.).
I'm swimming twice per week (usually in the water for ~1 hour) and only doing EN position drills & single arm swimming. This is a lot of kicking, so not a ton of yards. I did manage to swim a 100 yard TT in 1:11.9 this fall! That was exciting.
Your Homework
Tell Me Your Season Goals
• What will make you consider this season a success?
• What's your biggest limiter right now?
Contact Points
As part of your journey to becoming a Self Coached Triathlete inside TeamEN, we are prepared to give you excellent support for your first 90 days. Our goal is to transition you from live, in-person support to using our digital resources and the Team to help you continue your progress as you execute your Three Year Plan.
These are all the key points in your first year where we must talk. Please remember to include your phone number.
• Coach Call in Week Two to talk about your season (set it up here)
• End of Trial Call -- We review your experience & Unlock Year One / Race Execution for you (set it up here)
• End of Season Call -- We review your year & Strategize for your End of Year Gap and Year Two (TBD in this Coach Thread)
Questions
• Coach Questions - Right here in this thread. Always reply to this same thread, it keeps a record for us as we evolve together!
• General Questions - Simple stuff can go to the Q & A Central Forum for the Team to answer. For example, Best Bike? How to improve run cadence? How to flip turn?
• Admin Questions - Billing or orders or whatnot? Use the red chat button at the bottom of the Members Site (not forums) or email us here.
• Specific Questions about a Race or Power, etc? - You can post those into the targeted forum for that topic. Power questions to the Power and Pace Forum. Race questions to your specific race forum, etc. Not sure where to post? Put it in the General Discussion forum and we will sort it out. Whatever you do, PLEASE ask your questions!!
For short or last minute questions, we recommend you use the Red Chat Icon on the main Members website.
You have quite a few things to do when you start up. There are instructions on the top of the website, but you can review them under Resources / Trial Member Welcome.
One major question: I expected to see swim camp at some point between now & IM as a chance to “refresh/reset” before moving forward with hard training.
I can can always just dial back a week before one of my races (like the riverbank 25k), and that would serve as a mini-taper & refresh/recover week. I’ve already added some of my own recovery weeks leading up to testing & following big training blocks.
But I wanted to get your thoughts about swim camp as a chance to reset legs at some point between now & August.
Sorry, I haven't gotten the Final Surge up and running yet. I needed to get a new phone because I was out of memory & didn't want to add another app. I have new phone and now I'm just procrastinating. I'll do it soon! Don't worry, I'm think I am training pretty well and fully embracing EN dogma and what I've learned from you and the team.
I think I'm training way smarter this OS than last OS. I'm listening to my body a lot more and feeling better week to week.
Re Final Surge no worries! Whenever you are ready.
I would preferred if you were a little more flexible and rest when required. I have found that scheduled resting is it always the best. And I think you are smart enough to know when it matters most. This would be something you and I monitor across the season and make the call when it’s direct time. How does that sound?
Comments
Updates in addition to message above: I got stitches off and she said it looked good. PA said I could walk & stationary bike without shoe on. She said if I try a cycling shoe on in a couple days & it feels ok I can try that. She said NO swimming or running for at least another week. I'm ok with that because I understand why it is needed. I just want to bike! :)
Also, I remembered today I have the Allianz insurance for AC 70.3. So that is a consideration in the "what to do about AC 70.3?" question. I have the trip booked, but I"m going to be seeing two buddies as part of the trip, so I would be ok just spectating if I had to. But I'd prefer to race. Hopefully I'll get that money back in a settlement either way. But if I use insurance, I'll be sure to get it back and get it back more quickly (I'm guessing this is a situation where I could use the insurance).
Anyway, I'll patiently await your response to the other stuff. If you have thoughts on AC70.3 now, I'd love to hear them. If you think we should wait and see, I am ok with that too (I just have to find out if there is a deadline to use the insurance). Thanks Coach P!
I am pretty sure I saw in the group me that you got the greenlight, congratulations! I’m very excited that you can start the process of rebuilding. As you noted, you don’t have that far to go to come back.
My point in the message above was just that there’s a big gap between you riding 100 miles in Colorado and where you are right now. Regaining the fitness will feel uncomfortable but do not be disappointed. Your body is ready and will ramp up quickly enough that you should be fine for Atlantic City as long as you can take care of the incision. I agree that skipping that Run is probably the best long-term play.
When you get a chance, let me know how does aerobic ride to go! Would love to see a picture of you out in the wild in the group… Just get off your bike to take the picture first! 😂
Hey @Coach Patrick , thanks a million! Ok, that makes a lot of sense.
1) I was so excited and so full of energy last night, I went ahead and did 3*12'(~4') @ Z4 HR on a stationary bike. It felt good. One important consideration I realized is that all the bikes I've done since the accident were HR-based. I was reminded that just because I can push my HR up high for a Z4 interval does not mean I am putting out the watts/speed I once could. So like you said, that may limit what I can do outside till I gain my fitness back.
2) Ok, cool. Great to hear you think I'm ok to do AC70.3. One clarification: when you said "I agree that skipping that Run is probably the best long-term play. " did you mean, at this point, I should mentally prepare to swim and bike, and then DNF the race? Or walk the 13.1 miles? I intially said I am willing to do that, but now that I know I bought race insurance, I'm having 2nd thoughts on the ROI of paying to do that swim+bike. In that case, do you think it would be worth the $350+ of race registration and paying to ship my bike (which I have not yet reserved) to get to swim & bike? I'm torn....and obviously, we can't say for sure what to do without knowing how my body reacts to running again when that time comes. (As you may have seen, I did get some good insight on GroupMe Run thread on this question after I posted this. Consensus sounds like it would be smarter to save the $$$ and use the insurance.)
PS. I'll be sure to get a picture of me back on the bike when the time comes! :)
Thanks a million!
-RP
nice work on this intervals! i hi k Hr is the best way to go as it will “limit” you to the work you can sustain until your muscles come around.
i didn’t know about the insurance— when did you get so smart!?! i agree with the RDP group...why pay to do part of a race? let’s imitate the event in training and you can Swim + Bike the HIM distance at home.
plse keep me posted on your progress!
~ Coach P
Ok, cool. Thanks Coach P!
Ha ha ha! Thanks. Hopefully I can use the insurance without too much paperwork.
Will do! I got 220 miles Sat-Mon over holiday weekend. All pretty low effort & I felt great. Biggest concern was keeping foot dry and not walking around in cycling shoes with wet feet too much.
How horrible would it be for me to insert a big bike week in the off-season for fun (3rd week in October)? I would keep daily running going, assuming I am running fine by then. I have a week-long fall break and I've been thinking of doing a little 4-5 day bike tour around Michigan, visiting friends & staying with them. Planning and doing my long rides this weekend made me get really excited about exploring more of the state via biking. I would be traveling minimally & borrowing clothes from friends to sleep in/eat dinner in, so I don't carry much and can cover a lot of distance.
-Rob
it was great to follow your progress over the weekend. Sometimes long ride like that I just good for the soul, never mind about the fitness!
I think the big bike week will be fine. If you had Ikelea by then you should be much healthier overall including the foot. I say why not, start planning!
:) Awesome, thanks a million @Coach Patrick ! I completely agree! Good for the soul.
Ok, cool, thanks!
Another couple longer term season questions:
Assuming I can slowly start rebuilding run fitness & durability within the week (as planned), does it still make sense to go for a marathon PR (BQ attempt ~3hr5min) in mid-march (3/17/18) given the run hiatus I had? In other words, is this ~22+ day hiatus from running enough of a dent in my run fitness/durability that a goal of being at my best run fitness ever in March is unlikely? Part of my concern is that my avg weekly mileage for 2018 was already lower than I was hoping (~22 mpw). I was planning to start building weekly mileage up incrementally all fall and winter so that I would be able to comfortably run a ton of miles in the final build to the marathon.
If I am going to try and PR a marathon on 3/17/19, what do you think about trying to get down to Austin for Rattler on 3/31/19? I wouldn't be looking to race hard at Rattler. I would do it for the fun social time with the team, and because it would be a fun epic trail run. I'm not sure if I can get away from work yet, but assuming I could make the trip, what do you think about doing the race from a season planning/fitness standpoint? And for that matter, if I did do it, 33k or 66k? I guess doing the 66k would have a more negative impact on building bike fitness for the rest of my season, but what are your thoughts? And this is all predicated on the belief that my foot will be 100% and I'll be running well by then.
As soon as I'm done recovering from the marathon on 3/17, my focus would shift to building major bike fitness to crush it at Al camp and set me up for a great 140.6 in August. THANKS!
Hey @Coach Patrick ,
1) Since I was behind where I wanted to be before the accident & the accident stopped me from running for 25 days, I have been lacking confidence about a BQ attempt in March 2019. I did get 12 runs in this week (week ending 9/30) and 30 total miles, so that is helping my confidence. But I'm so far from where I would need to be to stand a chance of a BQ. What do you think about not doing a marathon in the spring and instead doing one in fall 2019 on the heels of IMMT build & fitness? I'm torn and may do the March marathon anyway just to have another data point and more lessons learned in my long term journey toward Boston.
2) If I am going to try and PR a marathon on 3/17/19, what do you think about trying to get down to Austin for Rattler on 3/31/19? I'm leaning toward the 33k vs. the 66k. What do you think? It would be cool to do an ultra, but I think the longer run (and build up & recovery) would negatively impact my bike and swim a lot more. There is a 100 mile gravel road race two weeks after rattler near me and I would like to do that. So that is another reason I would lean toward 33k. Is marathon 3/17, 33k 3/31 and 100 mile gravel road race 4/13 too much? The 4/13 gravel race has 62 mile and 36 mile options and I could easily decide to do one of those instead.
3) If go big at Al Camp and end with Ultra Ragnar on 6/8, would I have enough time to recover and do Hoff camp 6/18-6/23 (just go easy for 10 days with lots of swimming)? Initially I figured I would be ok doing both since Hoff and Limbert are doing both. But Hoff isn't running Ragnar, and I am not the athlete that Limbert is. So I wanted to see what you thought?
Thanks!
-Rob
@Larry Peters - Thanks for reaching out! Happy to follow your progress my friend....
I think it's best not to force the BQ piece. I prefer a more gradual build up and then adding something post IMMT as you suggest (like @Rory Gumina Did this year).
Since you won't be doing that BQ attempt, I think the Rattler 33k is PERFECT. Nice steady miles add up, plus this would be a TON of fun for you. It's a Win/Win...and you get to do the Gravel race.
Yes, you will be fine...it will be tough at Hoff Camp; and you'll be limited to the bike / swim there, but it's all good. Since it's not a race, if you show up sub-part you'll still have a ton of fun and build some fitness!!!!
👍
~ Coach P
Hey @Coach Patrick ,
Awesome, thanks a million! I really appreciate all the guidance.
Your idea to "not force the BQ piece" is exactly what I've been thinking more and more. And I know to have a shot at BQ, I would have to make sacrifices in bike/swim fitness early in the year (and I am loving crushing on the bike right now and really want to keep building that & carry it to next year). I love the idea of seeing where I am at IMMT and decide about fall marathon after that. I'd be more comfortable giving up the bike for a while at that point if it would play to a potential BQ. Interestingly, I've been listening to the @Rory Gumina BQ podcast this week and really enjoyed it! That is also what helped sway me more to the idea of waiting till the fall to see if a potential BQ is in the cards.
Two important clarifications:
1) I was thinking of still doing the Sharmrock marathon in early March as a benchmark and to get another marathon under my belt full of lessons learned (and hopefully use Stryd, which would give me some good data going into 2019 season). I would plan to have no expectations other than to learn a lot and hopefully PR from my 02/2017 hilly marathon. *And* importantly, I would plan to not really give up much biking or swimming.
Based on EN dogma I've read/heard, I'm guessing you might say: do a local half marathon sometime next spring instead of traveling for a full marathon, as a benchmark (which I am seriously considering). But maybe you won't? I've run two 26.2 races. One hilly (Austin, about one month before I joined EN, 02/2017) and one flat (Chicago, 10/2017, 6 months after joining EN, 2 months after my first 70.3). I had a lot more base training for Chicago than Austin, and for Austin, I trained a lot, but was ramping up quickly (~over about 6 months) from a long time of no serious running. Austin had great execution & for my fitness was a great race. Chicago, I was under rested, under-tapered, had terrible execution (my own fault) and I had put way too much pressure on myself. So I'm kinda interested in doing another marathon where I don't have to worry about the pressure of a BQ, and I can rebuild confidence that I can execute well after Chicago. And since Shamrock is a flat course, I should still crush my 26.2 PR from Austin of ~3.5 hours. It *might* also help me work harder on winter body comp. Also, if Shamrock 2019 goes well, then maybe it will set me up to try and BQ at Shamrock 2020....and I will have raced the course before. Thoughts?
2) Please clarify: "it will be tough at Hoff Camp; and you'll be limited to the bike / swim there..." are you suggesting I should limit myself to not running during Hoff Camp to avoid over stressing my body? Or just reminding me that with that much cycling, there isn't much time/energy in the day for running?
Good luck at Kona and I am sure you will crush it! It is so awesome to see you still achieving new heights in fitness, even after playing this game for so long!
Thanks a million!!
-RP
@Larry Peters - OK so I think we are on the same page. If you don’t have to sign up for the marathon now then we can certainly put you on the path to train forward and see how your body responds. My big concern is just what the long-term effects of your come back will be like and whether or not that will affect your ability to run healthy each week during a marathon build.
In someway I feel like we’re kind of entering a little bit of an unknown. So I want to give it a little bit of room. At least without the pressure of having to honor the marathon entry you have purchased.
My point was just if you are going to do the Ragnar and a spring marathon that by the time you get to Hoff Camp you might need a bit of a break for more running. At some point there are diminishing returns.
Hey @Coach Patrick ,
Sweet, thanks a million! I think that is a good idea. I won't commit to the idea of a spring marathon. We'll see how the winter goes in terms of running. I'm still on the fence about trying to get down for Rattler 33k. But maybe if I scratch the thought of a spring marathon, I could focus on the Rattler 33k and see how that goes.
I'm probably going to race a good buddy at a 10k Turkey trot, so that should give me a bit of a baseline.
Yes, I totally understand. That makes sense. Ragnar+Hoff camp+any other spring adventures may mean that I back off from running at hoff camp.
CONGRATS ON KICKING BUTT AT KONA!!
Thanks!
Thanks for the kind words. I don’t want you to think that I am selling you short. You are young and strong and very committed. I see a very bright future for you. We just need to try to chart a path where your body’s readiness intersects with your mental strength. This could happen much sooner than I anticipate, so please keep up the good work. See you soon on Zwift.
Thank you for the kind words!! That means a lot. :) I did not feel at all like you were selling me short. You have so much experience and knowledge, and I really respect that. I have definitely "trained myself into the ground" multiple times, so it is important for me to prioritize recovery. I really like what you said and I am honored & humbled. I just have to keep telling myself: recovery is when I get faster/stronger.
Yes! Definitely see you on Zwift! I'm resting this weekend for my big cycling tour over "fall break" next week, so you should see some big numbers on Strava. :)
Thanks @Coach Patrick !! (And I totally saw you post your address a long time ago in the Snowmass Camp group me, but I guess it got buried before Al saw it. ;) )
@Larry Peters you are so funny about the address. I thought I posted it but I wasn’t sure. I’m getting to that age where I just can’t be 100% sure anymore.
Thanks a million for all the kind words in the November Coach Chat @Coach Patrick !! I'm glad I remembered I can listen to those like podcast. They are great!
Always. Happy new year and wishing you an awesome 2019. 👍
Thanks so much Coach!! Happy New Year and I hope you have an awesome 2019 too!
Hey @Coach Patrick , the last time we talked about my 2019 season road map was July 2018. Some things have changed. And the road map I got then only went to the end of 2018-2019 OS. If I want to ask you about planning the rest of this 2019 season (up to my A race IMMT on 08/18/2019), do you prefer I fill out a TSR request or describe my B-events and ask questions here? Thanks!
I also have a family celebration weekend during the key final ~5 weeks or so leading up to my race. I know this isn't ideal, but they will understand if I train some during that time. I'm hoping I can train a lot before and after so it doesn't impact my build much. But I wanted to ask you about the specifics of that and a few other things after we map out my season a bit more. Thanks!
@Larry Peters The best bet is to submit services to me using the roadmap tool, and I will sketch out the year. Then you and I can go back-and-forth about how we accommodate your schedule for all the other things you have going on.
http://bit.ly/yourraces
Awesome, thanks @Coach Patrick ! Done! :)
😎
Hey @Coach Patrick , I posted in slow twitch general triathlon forum asking about IMMT training camp. I've gotten several replies, but most don't know about any camp. This one is the only one that mentioned a camp:
"Not sure where you're located, but my club - NortheastMultisport (based in Nashua, NH) - does a training camp there each year. This year it is July 18-22 (it was going to be the following weekend when I first wrote this post, but just now (2/5/19 9:38 pm), they told me they moved it one weekend forward. So this new time, 7/18-7/22 fits the EN IM plan even better. It will be over week 16 RR weekend if my calculations are correct and big run week! So awesome!). Here's the link on our website: https://northeastmultisport.com/event-info/
You could try to contact our club and see if someone not in the club could attend. " -Nate Thomas
Is that what you were thinking about? I'm going to reach out to them. I read the details about their camp. It would be week 17 (7/25-7/28) of my 20 week program. They do allow members outside their club (assuming their is room)
They said participants can follow any training schedule, but that most participants would follow somethign like this:
"Thursday arrival.
Friday: Long ride. Most will ride the full 112 mile course or a bit longer and follow it up with a short run off the bike.
Saturday: Long swim, middle distance ride, and a short run. Most will swim 2.4+ miles, ride 56+ miles, and then do a short run off the bike.
Sunday: Long Run and short swim. Distance may vary significantly by the athlete, but most will go long on the course. If there is time, some will do an easy swim prerun or a short recovery swim after their run."
Details here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/192olTBIE8x8jLWt7kmJ2gw5aqYln7W_kuEYY4ekvpm8/edit
Do you have the contact info for the person you recommend contacting for IMMT camp? (irrelevant if the camp above sounds good to you)
How does the camp above sound? Thanks! They put me on the list!! :) (fireworks!)
Hey man, I’m sorry I forgot to connect you with dev. Colin is a great guy, and you will enjoy the camp. He is super smart and also a big dude like yourself. I expect to see a picture of you too from camp!
I might suggest you write a little longer on Saturday. Something like 56 and then back out to the highway flip it come back to the hills, I’ll be done. That will be closer to 75 miles and allows me to get a little bit more practice on those pills in and out of town.
Awesome, thanks @Coach Patrick . No sweat!
Did my TSR request go through on 1/22? No worries if you are backed up on those. But I wanted to make sure it went through. Thanks!!
all set brobeans!!! 👍
@Coach Patrick , so "all set" means you saw my TSR request and you will get to it at some point? Sorry. You know I sometimes struggle with the obvious interpretation of a message. Thanks! (Thanks for the ride-on last night too!)
I ask because, usually, when you complete my TSR, it appears here in my micro forum. And I don't see the updated one here. Thanks!
@Larry Peters Sorry bro, it was in another separate thread by mistake. You're all "Where is it?" and I'm all "It's done!". 😢
Cut / pasted below...let me know if I need to change anything!
+++++++++++++++++
@Larry Peters
Here's your personal Coach Thread, as promised. This is where you'll return to post all your "coach" questions as responses; I'll see them and reply. This first post is here to guide you through your first year on EN, so you can always come back here.
As you'll see in this forum, I handle all manner of edits and changes. So post away, know that I reply here usually M/W/F each week.
Power User Tip: Click the Star icon by the Title of this thread to subscribe, and you'll get email updates when I do reply.
Coach Notes
Hey man, thanks for the TSR....I don't see you in Final Surge So I can't see your plans right now. That said, I think you are ripe for the OutSeason Plan into a Bike Focus (OS is prep for Barry, Bike Focus is prep for Al)...you'll start the IM plan a bit earlier than all camp, but you'll be well on your way to the point where you can handle the bike volume and be able to do some running / cross training while you are there (Except for dumb Withrow ride day).
The big thing, as you noted, is keeping you healthy. I wouldn't worry so much about body comp outside of smart food choices. You are a strong guy, and young, I'd rather you focus on creating more strength on a good diet. Save the "need to get crafty" stuff for when you get older! 🤣
Let me know what you think!
Your Races
Season Outline
These are your recommended training plans, including the date you should start each one (sometimes you won't complete a full plan but transition to another one). You can change your plans on Final Surge by clicking on Training Plans / My Plans. Learn more about each plan on the Training Plan Central Page.
>> Last updated by Coach on 01/28/2019
Your Notes
I did CdA 70.3 in 06/2018 in ~5:08. It was early season for me. I did Al Camp in June 2018 with Coach P and others. It was awesome! I had a freak accident in August 2018 that prevented me from racing in Steelhead and Atlantic City 70.3. I fell through my motel floor on the morning of Steelhead in Benton Harbor.
I raced Great Lakes Relay in July 2018. That went pretty well.
I did get a small stress fracture in my foot in February 2018. But I got over that. That spot did get sore a few times in the following year, so I do have to manage it and make sure I do my pre-hab and watch run volume intensity (and avoid spiking it too high).I think my fitness is pretty good. I've been training a lot (~15-20 hours per week including cross training). My FTP is 326 watts (body weight currently 192-194 pounds --> 3.7 W/kg on light days. Trying to cut some weight.
My last run test 5k out and back (early December) put my critical run power at 357 watts. That was a 6:15 pace 5k (a few small hills, but not much climbing. Strava said it had 151 feet of gain across 3.18 miles.).
I'm swimming twice per week (usually in the water for ~1 hour) and only doing EN position drills & single arm swimming. This is a lot of kicking, so not a ton of yards. I did manage to swim a 100 yard TT in 1:11.9 this fall! That was exciting.
Your Homework
Tell Me Your Season Goals
• What will make you consider this season a success?
• What's your biggest limiter right now?
Contact Points
As part of your journey to becoming a Self Coached Triathlete inside TeamEN, we are prepared to give you excellent support for your first 90 days. Our goal is to transition you from live, in-person support to using our digital resources and the Team to help you continue your progress as you execute your Three Year Plan.
These are all the key points in your first year where we must talk. Please remember to include your phone number.
• Welcome Call in Week One (set it up here)
• Coach Call in Week Two to talk about your season (set it up here)
• End of Trial Call -- We review your experience & Unlock Year One / Race Execution for you (set it up here)
• End of Season Call -- We review your year & Strategize for your End of Year Gap and Year Two (TBD in this Coach Thread)
Questions
• Coach Questions - Right here in this thread. Always reply to this same thread, it keeps a record for us as we evolve together!
• General Questions - Simple stuff can go to the Q & A Central Forum for the Team to answer. For example, Best Bike? How to improve run cadence? How to flip turn?
• Need Help? - Please check the EN Help Site first!
• Admin Questions - Billing or orders or whatnot? Use the red chat button at the bottom of the Members Site (not forums) or email us here.
• Specific Questions about a Race or Power, etc? - You can post those into the targeted forum for that topic. Power questions to the Power and Pace Forum. Race questions to your specific race forum, etc. Not sure where to post? Put it in the General Discussion forum and we will sort it out. Whatever you do, PLEASE ask your questions!!
For short or last minute questions, we recommend you use the Red Chat Icon on the main Members website.
We have also organized a complete chart of the best ways to contact us online here.
Your First Month on the Team
You have quite a few things to do when you start up. There are instructions on the top of the website, but you can review them under Resources / Trial Member Welcome.
Your First Year Inside Endurance Nation
This will be unlocked after your trial expires.
Looking forward to working with you this year,
~ Coach P
Awesome, thanks a million @Coach Patrick !
One major question: I expected to see swim camp at some point between now & IM as a chance to “refresh/reset” before moving forward with hard training.
I can can always just dial back a week before one of my races (like the riverbank 25k), and that would serve as a mini-taper & refresh/recover week. I’ve already added some of my own recovery weeks leading up to testing & following big training blocks.
But I wanted to get your thoughts about swim camp as a chance to reset legs at some point between now & August.
Sorry, I haven't gotten the Final Surge up and running yet. I needed to get a new phone because I was out of memory & didn't want to add another app. I have new phone and now I'm just procrastinating. I'll do it soon! Don't worry, I'm think I am training pretty well and fully embracing EN dogma and what I've learned from you and the team.
I think I'm training way smarter this OS than last OS. I'm listening to my body a lot more and feeling better week to week.
Thanks!
Re Final Surge no worries! Whenever you are ready.
I would preferred if you were a little more flexible and rest when required. I have found that scheduled resting is it always the best. And I think you are smart enough to know when it matters most. This would be something you and I monitor across the season and make the call when it’s direct time. How does that sound?