Ok, here are some pics (finally). As mentioned earlier, the main issue I am having is with my hands - just can't seem to get comfortable. Am I gripping in the right location? Are my arms at the correct angle? And after looking at the side profiles, I think I may have more issues that I had thought. Looks to me like I am crammed with that pointy back - but not sure what it is supposed to look like.
Your fit isn't that bad. Good news is your seat seems to be the right height.
I'll take a more in depth look later. You do look a bit cramped in the bottom picture but not so much on the top one. Your position is more upright in the bottom pic. My quick thoughts would be to lower the stem by dropping spacers (this should help flatten your back out some) and I'd like to see you move forward more on the saddle but I worry about the cramped position. How tall are you? Inseam? Frame size?
I'll look at the hands and aerobar position later. Why do you have the bars turned in? Not saying that's bad just wondering why your's are turned in.
I'm 5'10". No idea on inseam but wear a 30" pant (length). Frame size is 56. I have played with the aerobars -moving front, back, turning in - anything I can think of to help with my hand comfort. When they were "normal", they seemed to push against the palms of my hands more which put strain on my wrists. But since doing that, I have moved the bars out about a cm which improved comfort. Perhaps I will try turning them back to "normal"
At 5'10" with 30 inch inseam (pants), you probably have more torso and less legs than average. That's why you (at 5'10") are on a 56 cm bike...it needed to be long enough for you. It's also why it appears that you don't have a huge drop from saddle to bars...if your legs are a bit short and your torso a bit long, you'll never have that 15 cm drop!
First thing to do is to make sure you can put the bike exactly back the way it is now so you can't mess it up too bad!
Looking at your photos and listening to your questions, it looks to ma a little like you should have more weight supported on your elbow pads. If all your weight were supported there, you'd have less worry about what your hands were doing...because there would be less tension on them....ideally, you should be able to ride with very loose hands that you put wherever you want (unless you're really pulling hard!)
Your humerus is essentially parallel to the fork. That's one good measure. But a slightly more aggressive way of doing it is to have the arms a little closer to perpendicular to the ground so that you're supporting more weight on them. I don't think you want to do that by pulling the pads back, but you might be able to do it by pushing the saddle a bit forward. That COULD crowd you up front too much, or it could get you to roll your hips just right so that your back would be flatter and more weight would be skeletally supported up front. If you want to try this, it would be handy to have another stem available that was 1-2 cm longer than what you have. Yes, that pulls the pads further away, but if your hips roll, that might be exactly what you need. Again, if your hips roll, you also might be able to take out a spacer and lower the front end a cm or so.
Just my thoughts! And no harm riding KS the way you are now and only messing with it when you're starting to prepare for your next race!
At 5'10" with 30 inch inseam (pants), you probably have more torso and less legs than average. That's why you (at 5'10") are on a 56 cm bike...it needed to be long enough for you. It's also why it appears that you don't have a huge drop from saddle to bars...if your legs are a bit short and your torso a bit long, you'll never have that 15 cm drop!
First thing to do is to make sure you can put the bike exactly back the way it is now so you can't mess it up too bad!
Looking at your photos and listening to your questions, it looks to ma a little like you should have more weight supported on your elbow pads. If all your weight were supported there, you'd have less worry about what your hands were doing...because there would be less tension on them....ideally, you should be able to ride with very loose hands that you put wherever you want (unless you're really pulling hard!)
Your humerus is essentially parallel to the fork. That's one good measure. But a slightly more aggressive way of doing it is to have the arms a little closer to perpendicular to the ground so that you're supporting more weight on them. I don't think you want to do that by pulling the pads back, but you might be able to do it by pushing the saddle a bit forward. That COULD crowd you up front too much, or it could get you to roll your hips just right so that your back would be flatter and more weight would be skeletally supported up front. If you want to try this, it would be handy to have another stem available that was 1-2 cm longer than what you have. Yes, that pulls the pads further away, but if your hips roll, that might be exactly what you need. Again, if your hips roll, you also might be able to take out a spacer and lower the front end a cm or so.
Just my thoughts! And no harm riding KS the way you are now and only messing with it when you're starting to prepare for your next race!
Thanks. I have my RR tomorrow - so perhaps I'll try some suggestions and see how it goes. I am thinking move the saddle and aerobars forward as suggested but not remove the spacers quite yet. I'll try that tonight just to see how it feels before actually riding that way - but something to consider.
Greg, why not swap your straight/funky -bend extensions out for a set of ski bends? They will address the hand position completely without any real penalty.
Only concern with moving forward is not much room. Right knee seems to be close to bar. One thing I noticed and could be picture angle. Do you have a history of left hip or knee pain? Seem to have less hip flexion on left and as a result abduct hip at end of range.
Well - as someone who has never been very patient, I went ahead and made mass changes that resulted in, I think, a much better fit. I did my RR today with the changes and other than my neck being a little more sore than normal, it felt really good. Changes I made:
Moved seat forward 1cm
Moved aerobars forward 1cm
Dropped handlebars by 1cm (2 spacers)
Angled aerobar ends up just a tad
I think the sore neck is a result of being down a bit further requiring me to have to 'look up' more than I am used to. I'll get used to that fairly quickly I assume. So... any thoughts? I like how it feels but want to make sure it looks correct.
Looking for opinions on a water bottle that fits between my aero bars. I just got it and used it for a long ride this weekend where it worked great. Very comfortable drinking from the aero postion. It's in addition to three other water bottles on the bike, one down tube, and two behind the seat. My question - is it something I want to keep on my bike during a HIM? I'm trying to be as aero as I can. Should I remove the 2 quart "jug" from my bars and rely on the fluids on the course? Any difference for the IM? Thanks for your input ...
Posted By douglas hamilton on 11 Jun 2012 04:55 PM
Looking for opinions on a water bottle that fits between my aero bars. I just got it and used it for a long ride this weekend where it worked great. Very comfortable drinking from the aero postion. It's in addition to three other water bottles on the bike, one down tube, and two behind the seat. My question - is it something I want to keep on my bike during a HIM? I'm trying to be as aero as I can. Should I remove the 2 quart "jug" from my bars and rely on the fluids on the course? Any difference for the IM? Thanks for your input ...
No need to carry all those bottles on the bike. There are aid stations every 10-12 miles during a HIM and every 12-15 miles during an IM.
Which water bottle did you get for between the bars?
Two bottles on the bike for either a HIM or IM would work for just about everyone. One bottle between your bars and the other on the down tube. Ditch the behind the seat bottles.
Douglas, FWIW, last year I was a "hang bottles all over the bike" kind of guy. But after researching inside the EN wiki and reading through all of the posts, I decided to change up this year. I just did Kansas HIM and used a small Aero Bottle in the front, a disposable bottle on the front down tube and another bottle on the rear downtube. Last year I had 2 bottles on the down tubes plus 2 behind the seat. The only reason I had the 2nd bottle underneath was for 'back up' in case I had trouble with getting refills at the aid stations. But I won't do that again - there were no issues grabbing 2 bottles at each station (one to fill the aero bottle, one to replace the disposable) and I never used my 'backup'. In fact, I could have easily grabbed 3 if I wanted - and at 1 I grabbed a Gu along with my 2 bottles. Knowing that, I will stick with the aero bottle (small) and 1 disposible from now on.
Not that I'm a bike fitter, but you look like you have a flat back and decent leg extension. I would call the position very good if not better than very good. As far as the bottles go, I have tried just about every bottle type and combo. My current configuration is a Speedfil a2 mounted between my aerobars using a Speedfil stem mount. The Speedfil stem mount set me back about $25 with shipping, but I couldn't get a good stable aerobar configuration using a torpedo mount, velcro or zip ties. Some people have gotten these to work, but I went the stem mount route. I also have one bottle wedged right up under my seat in the back that is held with zip ties. It's just a Profile design bottle plastic gizmo, and I had to drill a hole in it to make it work, but its tight to my rear end, so no parachute effect. I also mount an aero-type bottle to my seat tube. The optimal location for the frame mount varies by bike and by bottle type, so I took my best guess after looking at some Cervelo research and decided on the seat tube mount, as low as I could possible get it to sit inside the triangle.
Some peeps carry less liquid on their bikes. I carry two bottles of water, and one of concentrate. When I go through a bottle stop, I still take a bottle and drink all I can but I discard the bottle at the end of the stop. If I miss a stop or two, I can ususally make the next one without worrying about running out of liquids. Sometimes water stops are either too busy or in a bad place, so I like to have options. I can do a 2-3 hour training ride with my bottle combiniation. If I really wanted to off load something, the only really essential bottles are the a2 that I drink from, and the seat bottle with my concentrate.
I always vote for the new TT bike if you can. I converted a road bike to a tri bike, but noticed that those that were passing me on my road bike ALL had Tri bikes. So I bought a P3, love it and now I'm the one passing! (more often!!)
I just got my first tri bike and was hoping for some basic tips/critiques. This is my first week on it...been feeling a lot of strain/tension in my shoulders/upper arms. Not sure if that's a fit issue or just getting used to the aero position. Otherwise I think I am faster already! This set-up is a combination of the fitter at the LBS and my tinkering since then to make things more comfortable. Anything obviously wrong? Thanks for any suggestions!!!
I'm hoping to get some critiques of my bike fit. The current fit is a work-in-progress with my LBS. I've done a few rides with this current setup and it seems ok, but I feel like I'm not sure because it's really my first tri bike. It feels relatively comfortable. I'm able to stay aero until my neck needs a break, which is after a couple of hours now. I seem to be getting more used to the position on each ride and my neck more comfortable.
I wish I could see your feet and complete pedal stroke in the video. Your seat seems to be at a good height from what I can tell.
I'd like to see a front angle shot because it looks like your knees might be tracking outward but I can't really tell from that angle. That would mean you'd want some shims in your shoes or under your cleats to "correct" the motion.
Your also stretched out a bit and need to move forward some on the seat. This will improve the position some (closer to a 90 degree elbow angle).
You also need to learn to rotate your pelvic bone on the seat. Your aero position is coming from bending your lower back and you want it to come more from the pelvic rotation.
The drop from your seat to the bars doesn't seem like a lot either but your seat seems like it's at a decent height and dropping spacers will probably only stretch you out more.
Thanks for the feedback Bob. I'll work on my seating position. Any suggestions on how to have that better form? I think I was sitting back a bit when I took the video because I noticed when I'm out on the road I tend to really get up on the seat.
And I'll post another video with a more full view showing my foot at the bottom of the pedal stroke and a front view.
Practice by sitting on a chair and pretending to go down into the aero position. You're probably bending at your waist which is of course bending your spine. Your pelvic bone is probably not rotating much at all.
Now imagine that someone put a steel rod in your spine and you can't bend your spine. Keep your spine super straight and now go down in the aero position. Feel the difference? You should notice your pelvic bone rotating a lot more. It's like you're lowering your upper torso into position as opposed to bending to get the position.
It seems like the up-front bottle on/between the aerobars is an essential part of triathlon equipment. I can't imagine having to reach for a bottle every time I wanted a drink. With an up-front bottle you could probably drop the frame bottle and rely more on course fluids to replenish your supply, or not. I run a Speedfil a2 between my aerobars which I replenish with an aero-shaped bottle on my seat tube or a single bottle under/behind my seat. Having one bottle up front that you drink from and two other bottles gives you more drink options. For example, I keep concentrated sports drink in my seat bottle. When I'm ready for sports drink, I add it to my up front bottle. A properly-configured up front bottle has very little aero penalty, so I just leave it on for everything including olys. Just my thoughts.
It seems like the up-front bottle on/between the aerobars is an essential part of triathlon equipment. I can't imagine having to reach for a bottle every time I wanted a drink. With an up-front bottle you could probably drop the frame bottle and rely more on course fluids to replenish your supply, or not. I run a Speedfil a2 between my aerobars which I replenish with an aero-shaped bottle on my seat tube or a single bottle under/behind my seat. Having one bottle up front that you drink from and two other bottles gives you more drink options. For example, I keep concentrated sports drink in my seat bottle. When I'm ready for sports drink, I add it to my up front bottle. A properly-configured up front bottle has very little aero penalty, so I just leave it on for everything including olys. Just my thoughts.
I just installed the A2 a couple weeks ago and I'm liking it so far. I'm still making adjustments to it, but all in all, I have to say I really, really like it.
Bob- your diagram above is interesting to me, as I was in a tri shop being fit for a new bike seat on the weekend. I typically sit like you are describing, bending from the waist, however the guy installing my seat sadi I should try to sit more with my pelvic bones in contact with the seat, and bend from there. Now I'm confused... Is the advice I was given incorrect? I tried sitting like that this weekend and did find less discomfort on my bike, with very sore sitbones after the fact, but less discomfort in the soft tissues. I thik once my sitbines adjust to that position the soresess will go away. Perhaps I was rotating too far forward from the pelvis due to some inflexibility? Do you have advice about sitbones and how they should contact the seat while in the aero position?
Becky - I think your guy at the shop and I are essentially saying the same thing... just articulated differently. You'll feel it in your sit bone area until you get used to it. How your sit bones contact the seat sort of depends on the kind of seat you're using. The Adamos and Cobbs hit the sit bones a little differently than a tri-tip style saddle which would be different from a Fizik Arione type saddle and so on.
Recently had my first real Tri Bike fit with Todd Kenyon at TTBike Fit. What a great experience! I highly recommend them (as many others in and out of EN have done previously.
Comments
Will post pics soon. Thx.
Ok, here are some pics (finally). As mentioned earlier, the main issue I am having is with my hands - just can't seem to get comfortable. Am I gripping in the right location? Are my arms at the correct angle? And after looking at the side profiles, I think I may have more issues that I had thought. Looks to me like I am crammed with that pointy back - but not sure what it is supposed to look like.
Any suggestions would be welcome. Thanks!!
Your fit isn't that bad. Good news is your seat seems to be the right height.
I'll take a more in depth look later. You do look a bit cramped in the bottom picture but not so much on the top one. Your position is more upright in the bottom pic. My quick thoughts would be to lower the stem by dropping spacers (this should help flatten your back out some) and I'd like to see you move forward more on the saddle but I worry about the cramped position. How tall are you? Inseam? Frame size?
I'll look at the hands and aerobar position later. Why do you have the bars turned in? Not saying that's bad just wondering why your's are turned in.
Thanks for the feedback so far!
First thing to do is to make sure you can put the bike exactly back the way it is now so you can't mess it up too bad!
Looking at your photos and listening to your questions, it looks to ma a little like you should have more weight supported on your elbow pads. If all your weight were supported there, you'd have less worry about what your hands were doing...because there would be less tension on them....ideally, you should be able to ride with very loose hands that you put wherever you want (unless you're really pulling hard!)
Your humerus is essentially parallel to the fork. That's one good measure. But a slightly more aggressive way of doing it is to have the arms a little closer to perpendicular to the ground so that you're supporting more weight on them. I don't think you want to do that by pulling the pads back, but you might be able to do it by pushing the saddle a bit forward. That COULD crowd you up front too much, or it could get you to roll your hips just right so that your back would be flatter and more weight would be skeletally supported up front. If you want to try this, it would be handy to have another stem available that was 1-2 cm longer than what you have. Yes, that pulls the pads further away, but if your hips roll, that might be exactly what you need. Again, if your hips roll, you also might be able to take out a spacer and lower the front end a cm or so.
Just my thoughts! And no harm riding KS the way you are now and only messing with it when you're starting to prepare for your next race!
First thing to do is to make sure you can put the bike exactly back the way it is now so you can't mess it up too bad!
Looking at your photos and listening to your questions, it looks to ma a little like you should have more weight supported on your elbow pads. If all your weight were supported there, you'd have less worry about what your hands were doing...because there would be less tension on them....ideally, you should be able to ride with very loose hands that you put wherever you want (unless you're really pulling hard!)
Your humerus is essentially parallel to the fork. That's one good measure. But a slightly more aggressive way of doing it is to have the arms a little closer to perpendicular to the ground so that you're supporting more weight on them. I don't think you want to do that by pulling the pads back, but you might be able to do it by pushing the saddle a bit forward. That COULD crowd you up front too much, or it could get you to roll your hips just right so that your back would be flatter and more weight would be skeletally supported up front. If you want to try this, it would be handy to have another stem available that was 1-2 cm longer than what you have. Yes, that pulls the pads further away, but if your hips roll, that might be exactly what you need. Again, if your hips roll, you also might be able to take out a spacer and lower the front end a cm or so.
Just my thoughts! And no harm riding KS the way you are now and only messing with it when you're starting to prepare for your next race!
Thanks. I have my RR tomorrow - so perhaps I'll try some suggestions and see how it goes. I am thinking move the saddle and aerobars forward as suggested but not remove the spacers quite yet. I'll try that tonight just to see how it feels before actually riding that way - but something to consider.
Thanks again!!
Comfort first!
Well - as someone who has never been very patient, I went ahead and made mass changes that resulted in, I think, a much better fit. I did my RR today with the changes and other than my neck being a little more sore than normal, it felt really good. Changes I made:
I think the sore neck is a result of being down a bit further requiring me to have to 'look up' more than I am used to. I'll get used to that fairly quickly I assume. So... any thoughts? I like how it feels but want to make sure it looks correct.
Looking for opinions on a water bottle that fits between my aero bars. I just got it and used it for a long ride this weekend where it worked great. Very comfortable drinking from the aero postion. It's in addition to three other water bottles on the bike, one down tube, and two behind the seat. My question - is it something I want to keep on my bike during a HIM? I'm trying to be as aero as I can. Should I remove the 2 quart "jug" from my bars and rely on the fluids on the course? Any difference for the IM? Thanks for your input ...
Also, some helmets have a lower front edge than others that may need a little filing so that you don't have to crank your head up so far.
No need to carry all those bottles on the bike. There are aid stations every 10-12 miles during a HIM and every 12-15 miles during an IM.
Which water bottle did you get for between the bars?
Two bottles on the bike for either a HIM or IM would work for just about everyone. One bottle between your bars and the other on the down tube. Ditch the behind the seat bottles.
Thanks for the replies on the water bottles - still evaluating
Douglas, FWIW, last year I was a "hang bottles all over the bike" kind of guy. But after researching inside the EN wiki and reading through all of the posts, I decided to change up this year. I just did Kansas HIM and used a small Aero Bottle in the front, a disposable bottle on the front down tube and another bottle on the rear downtube. Last year I had 2 bottles on the down tubes plus 2 behind the seat. The only reason I had the 2nd bottle underneath was for 'back up' in case I had trouble with getting refills at the aid stations. But I won't do that again - there were no issues grabbing 2 bottles at each station (one to fill the aero bottle, one to replace the disposable) and I never used my 'backup'. In fact, I could have easily grabbed 3 if I wanted - and at 1 I grabbed a Gu along with my 2 bottles. Knowing that, I will stick with the aero bottle (small) and 1 disposible from now on.
Not that I'm a bike fitter, but you look like you have a flat back and decent leg extension. I would call the position very good if not better than very good. As far as the bottles go, I have tried just about every bottle type and combo. My current configuration is a Speedfil a2 mounted between my aerobars using a Speedfil stem mount. The Speedfil stem mount set me back about $25 with shipping, but I couldn't get a good stable aerobar configuration using a torpedo mount, velcro or zip ties. Some people have gotten these to work, but I went the stem mount route. I also have one bottle wedged right up under my seat in the back that is held with zip ties. It's just a Profile design bottle plastic gizmo, and I had to drill a hole in it to make it work, but its tight to my rear end, so no parachute effect. I also mount an aero-type bottle to my seat tube. The optimal location for the frame mount varies by bike and by bottle type, so I took my best guess after looking at some Cervelo research and decided on the seat tube mount, as low as I could possible get it to sit inside the triangle.
Some peeps carry less liquid on their bikes. I carry two bottles of water, and one of concentrate. When I go through a bottle stop, I still take a bottle and drink all I can but I discard the bottle at the end of the stop. If I miss a stop or two, I can ususally make the next one without worrying about running out of liquids. Sometimes water stops are either too busy or in a bad place, so I like to have options. I can do a 2-3 hour training ride with my bottle combiniation. If I really wanted to off load something, the only really essential bottles are the a2 that I drink from, and the seat bottle with my concentrate.
I always vote for the new TT bike if you can. I converted a road bike to a tri bike, but noticed that those that were passing me on my road bike ALL had Tri bikes. So I bought a P3, love it and now I'm the one passing! (more often!!)
Hi everyone,
I just got my first tri bike and was hoping for some basic tips/critiques. This is my first week on it...been feeling a lot of strain/tension in my shoulders/upper arms. Not sure if that's a fit issue or just getting used to the aero position. Otherwise I think I am faster already! This set-up is a combination of the fitter at the LBS and my tinkering since then to make things more comfortable. Anything obviously wrong? Thanks for any suggestions!!!
Lisa
Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZTUR7GgX7k
1. Your seat might be a bit high. Try dropping it a cm and see how it feels.
2. Drop some spacers and try to get that stem a little lower.
Hi,
I'm hoping to get some critiques of my bike fit. The current fit is a work-in-progress with my LBS. I've done a few rides with this current setup and it seems ok, but I feel like I'm not sure because it's really my first tri bike. It feels relatively comfortable. I'm able to stay aero until my neck needs a break, which is after a couple of hours now. I seem to be getting more used to the position on each ride and my neck more comfortable.
youtu.be/5H0Dpm_9hSA
Thoughts?
And I'll post another video with a more full view showing my foot at the bottom of the pedal stroke and a front view.
Appreciate your feedback.
Practice by sitting on a chair and pretending to go down into the aero position. You're probably bending at your waist which is of course bending your spine. Your pelvic bone is probably not rotating much at all.
Now imagine that someone put a steel rod in your spine and you can't bend your spine. Keep your spine super straight and now go down in the aero position. Feel the difference? You should notice your pelvic bone rotating a lot more. It's like you're lowering your upper torso into position as opposed to bending to get the position.
It seems like the up-front bottle on/between the aerobars is an essential part of triathlon equipment. I can't imagine having to reach for a bottle every time I wanted a drink. With an up-front bottle you could probably drop the frame bottle and rely more on course fluids to replenish your supply, or not. I run a Speedfil a2 between my aerobars which I replenish with an aero-shaped bottle on my seat tube or a single bottle under/behind my seat. Having one bottle up front that you drink from and two other bottles gives you more drink options. For example, I keep concentrated sports drink in my seat bottle. When I'm ready for sports drink, I add it to my up front bottle. A properly-configured up front bottle has very little aero penalty, so I just leave it on for everything including olys. Just my thoughts.
I just installed the A2 a couple weeks ago and I'm liking it so far. I'm still making adjustments to it, but all in all, I have to say I really, really like it.
Bob- your diagram above is interesting to me, as I was in a tri shop being fit for a new bike seat on the weekend. I typically sit like you are describing, bending from the waist, however the guy installing my seat sadi I should try to sit more with my pelvic bones in contact with the seat, and bend from there. Now I'm confused... Is the advice I was given incorrect? I tried sitting like that this weekend and did find less discomfort on my bike, with very sore sitbones after the fact, but less discomfort in the soft tissues. I thik once my sitbines adjust to that position the soresess will go away. Perhaps I was rotating too far forward from the pelvis due to some inflexibility? Do you have advice about sitbones and how they should contact the seat while in the aero position?
Recently had my first real Tri Bike fit with Todd Kenyon at TTBike Fit. What a great experience! I highly recommend them (as many others in and out of EN have done previously.
Here are my Before....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wbbCup65mk
and After Vids.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKiV1dvNVjc