Question for the group. I have an adamo that is sanding my bits to bits. Is that generally a function of seat height? I have been fitted, but there's a difference between being out on the road for 2 hours and on the trainer for a half hour.
Chris- I have an adamo too, on my Tri bike. Couple of questions; Is the saddle new? If so, it definatly takes a while to break in. It is tough on the undercarriage for the first 2-3 weeks. Also, if it is not new, but you're using it on a trainer for the first time, there is a huge difference, especially on a Tri bike! Give it some time and see if you get used to it. If none of the above apply I'd say check your fit or a different saddle.
I just started training for triathlons in July of 2012, ran a few sprints to get a taste of the sport late summer, had some good results and now I’m hooked. I have a few Olympic distant events scheduled early this summer then a few half distances before I compete in the HIM in Muncie, IN in mid-July. I’ll eventually purchase a pure tri-bike, but I feel like I should earn it by maximizing what I currently have. But I’ve also heard I should give myself time to adapt to a tri-bike. While I argue with myself, I figured I’d make sure there weren’t any tweaks I could make to this one in the meantime.
With the caveat that trying to make a road bike fit like a tri bike never works...
You're way, way too far back. Look at your hips. You want the center point of your hips to be more or less over the middle of the bottom bracket. You're at least 6" too far back. That's probably a result of the road bike geometry and your seat being too far back. Try moving your seat (and yourself) more forward.
Your clip-ons and bars are way too high. There's little to no drop from your seat to your bars.
Here is a pic from me at IMAZ to point out the difference in position and the saddle to bar drop:
I'm going to be brutally honest here... ditch the attempt at transforming the bike into an aero rig. That bike and your position would be better served riding it as a road bike.
Hopefully this works. I have been written and was fitted before buying this bike but just can't seem to get comfy. It looks like the seat is not in the right place.
Seat height seems okay. I would suggest moving the seat forward about an inch for starters. That will help with the little bit of Superman reach you got going on and move your elbows closer to 90 degrees.
What was the reason your fitter has you sitting up so high? There's not a lot of drop from your saddle to your bars. I'd recommend dropping some spacers from the stem. That will get you lower and flatten out your back. Comfort trumps aero though so make sure you're still comfy.
I was 13 pounds heavier and really bound up. I'm not gumby by any stretch but much more flexible now. It does feel like in reaching and the saddle is chewing my bits. Will coming forward fix that ? (only one way to find out...)
EDIT: I noticed when I moved the seat that, to my surprise, all the numebrs had been worn off. That suggests that the seat was insufficiently torqued, and that the sliding of the railings rubbed the print off as the force of my pedaling pushed the seat back. So I may need to raise the seat up a little higher as well. But it definitely feels better in jeans; I'll put some shorts on later tonight and try again. Any additional suggestions would be most welcome.
Coming forward won't necessarily fix that issue. Coming forward just gets you into a better position.
It looks like you have your Adamo level. Try tilting the saddle down some. That should alleviate some of the pressure on your junk area. When tilting the saddle down you want to find the happy medium between alleviating pressure but not so much that you're sliding forward on the saddle as that will only add pressure to your arms, shoulders and neck.
Remember that titling the nose of the saddle down will in effect lower the height of the seat. Not by a lot but you might want to raise your seat a smidge to compensate for that.
So took the bike out for 2 hours yesterday before the snow comes. Lots of chamois cream. The good news: the soreness is in the right place, and of the right kind--that pain you have the first time you go for a long ride (on a normal saddle) and your rear's not used to it. It's different from the chewed feeling that I had historically. I think the seat is more or less in place or close to it. I have maybe a half-cm to go on the forward side now and then the seat would be slammed as far as I could get it.
WRT riding on the horns, that was OK. WRT aero, discomfort was as follows--first, middle of back, outside of arms. It was difficult to hold aero for long intervals. Don't know if that's just 'cause I'm not used to it and need to develop more fitness; (b) if I was trying to keep my arms too close together; or (3), I need more position tweaks. I have lowered the stem to the bottom of the steerer, but it's still on a 7 degree upward tilt. In order to get it lower, I'd have to flip it over. I think the key would be to get comfortable in this position first, and then maybe go lower?
Just got this bike from a TT a couple of weeks ago and my aero position looks, well, horrible. Any thoughts? My fit is pretty comfortable right now and I won't be aero much at Quassy but I may want to tweak afterwards as upcoming races are flatter so aero will be more important. Its a road bike so only so much I can do. I did have a fit done at LBS but this just don't look right....
Just got this bike from a TT a couple of weeks ago and my aero position looks, well, horrible. Any thoughts? My fit is pretty comfortable right now and I won't be aero much at Quassy but I may want to tweak afterwards as upcoming races are flatter so aero will be more important. Its a road bike so only so much I can do. I did have a fit done at LBS but this just don't look right....
Jeremy, that's a real aggressive and aero position. Like a time-trialer position. It's very stretched out so the question is... are you comfortable? If you are then carry on!!!
My last bike fit was in 2010 when I first too up triathlon. I'm thinking of doing a new fit prior to the OS. I realized I have both a good profile shot and a front shot from Vegas 2012. So do you there is a lot of opportunity in a re-fit for me? I think my aerobar extensions are pretty spread out compared to a lot of other guys but don't really know how relevant that is.
p.s. ignore the road ID and arm coolers hanging off my bike in the frontal pic...it was the beginning of the bike and I hadn't put them on just yet!!
My hobby horse about bike position is...most triathletes carry their heads too high. Look at the gap between the tail of your helmet and your back in the side view. Some time when you are out on a ride on a flat section, wind it up and work really hard. Then drop your head, trying to tuck your ears down below your shoulders. You should notice a few things:
The sound of wind in your ears seems to disappear
As does the feeling of wind hitting the side of your head
It should feel a little easier to maintain the same speed
To get really radical, aim your line of vision down further about 10 feet in front - dangerous to do without continually peeking up to see ahead, but a real eye opener in terms of how much impact the head/helmet, which is the biggest single thing in the frontal plane hitting the wind, has on aerodynamics.
Also, what's that damn bottle doing in your back pocket???!!!
Thanks Al. So if I understand you correctly, what you are saying is there is available improvement as a function of "technique" vs. actual fit. I.e. without any change to the bike geometry, I ought to be able to ride more aero?
Totally busted on the water in the back pocket. I had 2 gatorades and was feeling sick of it so wanted to pick up some water. But didn't want to toss the gatorade. I totally regretted it when I saw the pic!!!
Yeah, my comments apply no matter what position you are in on the bike. Take a look sometime at a slo-mo video of pro cyclists sprinting for the line, particular one with Cavendish in the picture. Almost always, you'll note that his head is lower than all the guys he's beating. Since they're going 45 mph @ that point, it probably is part of the reason he's a touch better than most everyone.
As to your fit/position, it's so hard to make comments based on static photos, especially if one is not a trained expert bike fitter. But just eyeballing, there might be a little bit of opportunity to get a smidge lower/flatter (but back flatness is not as important as just being lower). How to get there - the nunaces of cleat position, seat tube angle, saddle placement, aerobar position and angle, etc etc. is best left to guys who know what they are doing. That's why we pay them $200-300.
I'm like you; I last got fitted two years ago, and have been fiddling with my position ever since. I probably should go back after IM AZ and get an overhaul.
My last bike fit was in 2010 when I first too up triathlon. I'm thinking of doing a new fit prior to the OS. I realized I have both a good profile shot and a front shot from Vegas 2012. So do you there is a lot of opportunity in a re-fit for me? I think my aerobar extensions are pretty spread out compared to a lot of other guys but don't really know how relevant that is.
p.s. ignore the road ID and arm coolers hanging off my bike in the frontal pic...it was the beginning of the bike and I hadn't put them on just yet!!
Matt, try dropping a couple of spacers from your stem and see what that does. Your position is pretty good overall but you could get lower. Try narrowing your bars as well. Some wind tunnel data has shown a definite cut in frontal drag by narrowing the bars.
As for the helmet... one thing you could do is to push the front of the helmet higher up on your forehead which would then drop the tail. Will it stay there or constantly slide back down is another question. This is one of the reasons the new bobtail helmet designs are becoming more and more popular: the tail position has less of an impact on the aeroness of the helmet. I tried a bunch of aero helmets and found the Rudy worked best for me but as you can see in my pics above that there's still some separation between tail and shoulders and there wasn't anything more I could do about it. I switched to the Kask Bambino a couple of months ago. It's lighter, more comfortable and I didn't need to worry about my head position as much. I couldn't give you statistics on whether or not it tests better in a tunnel on me or not.
Thanks Bob. The fit feels really good. I rode for 40 miles last week at that setting and had no issues. It's about 15mm on the front now than my last setup I rode at IMWI. I miay just have to play around with the new saddle fore/aft/angle position so Im not continuously readjusting.
Comments
Chris- I have an adamo too, on my Tri bike. Couple of questions; Is the saddle new? If so, it definatly takes a while to break in. It is tough on the undercarriage for the first 2-3 weeks. Also, if it is not new, but you're using it on a trainer for the first time, there is a huge difference, especially on a Tri bike! Give it some time and see if you get used to it. If none of the above apply I'd say check your fit or a different saddle.
Had same problem. I tilted my front down about 1 or 2 degrees. Worked great. No further prblems.
Thanks for all your input in advance,
Jonas McCluskey
With the caveat that trying to make a road bike fit like a tri bike never works...
You're way, way too far back. Look at your hips. You want the center point of your hips to be more or less over the middle of the bottom bracket. You're at least 6" too far back. That's probably a result of the road bike geometry and your seat being too far back. Try moving your seat (and yourself) more forward.
Your clip-ons and bars are way too high. There's little to no drop from your seat to your bars.
Here is a pic from me at IMAZ to point out the difference in position and the saddle to bar drop:
I'm going to be brutally honest here... ditch the attempt at transforming the bike into an aero rig. That bike and your position would be better served riding it as a road bike.
Hopefully this works. I have been written and was fitted before buying this bike but just can't seem to get comfy. It looks like the seat is not in the right place.
Check out this Ubersense video and tell me what you think: http://www.ubersense.com/video/view/Dlrv4eOs/bike-fitting
What was the reason your fitter has you sitting up so high? There's not a lot of drop from your saddle to your bars. I'd recommend dropping some spacers from the stem. That will get you lower and flatten out your back. Comfort trumps aero though so make sure you're still comfy.
I was 13 pounds heavier and really bound up. I'm not gumby by any stretch but much more flexible now. It does feel like in reaching and the saddle is chewing my bits. Will coming forward fix that ? (only one way to find out...)
EDIT: I noticed when I moved the seat that, to my surprise, all the numebrs had been worn off. That suggests that the seat was insufficiently torqued, and that the sliding of the railings rubbed the print off as the force of my pedaling pushed the seat back. So I may need to raise the seat up a little higher as well. But it definitely feels better in jeans; I'll put some shorts on later tonight and try again. Any additional suggestions would be most welcome.
It looks like you have your Adamo level. Try tilting the saddle down some. That should alleviate some of the pressure on your junk area. When tilting the saddle down you want to find the happy medium between alleviating pressure but not so much that you're sliding forward on the saddle as that will only add pressure to your arms, shoulders and neck.
Remember that titling the nose of the saddle down will in effect lower the height of the seat. Not by a lot but you might want to raise your seat a smidge to compensate for that.
WRT riding on the horns, that was OK. WRT aero, discomfort was as follows--first, middle of back, outside of arms. It was difficult to hold aero for long intervals. Don't know if that's just 'cause I'm not used to it and need to develop more fitness; (b) if I was trying to keep my arms too close together; or (3), I need more position tweaks. I have lowered the stem to the bottom of the steerer, but it's still on a 7 degree upward tilt. In order to get it lower, I'd have to flip it over. I think the key would be to get comfortable in this position first, and then maybe go lower?
Just got this bike from a TT a couple of weeks ago and my aero position looks, well, horrible. Any thoughts? My fit is pretty comfortable right now and I won't be aero much at Quassy but I may want to tweak afterwards as upcoming races are flatter so aero will be more important. Its a road bike so only so much I can do. I did have a fit done at LBS but this just don't look right....
[code]<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/J-oTToEsujtuV7_prGqzkZVCzXcwQZtaTs2SqLk4XkI?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-UoHD_6iY4_w/Ue6W792v-lI/AAAAAAAAE54/iL_w_G-WdjQ/s144/Racine%20Bike%20Fit.jpg" height="108" width="144" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/jeremy.behler/Racine703?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCJCH9Pv76tfC8gE&feat=embedwebsite">Racine 70.3</a></td></tr></table> [/code]
Trying to embed pic one more time...look forward to your input
Similar thoughts from me. Too stretched out? Move seat forward or bring elbow pads back.
Anyone have the link to a fitter that has a video out there comparing pros. Compact and powerful is his preference.
My last bike fit was in 2010 when I first too up triathlon. I'm thinking of doing a new fit prior to the OS. I realized I have both a good profile shot and a front shot from Vegas 2012. So do you there is a lot of opportunity in a re-fit for me? I think my aerobar extensions are pretty spread out compared to a lot of other guys but don't really know how relevant that is.
p.s. ignore the road ID and arm coolers hanging off my bike in the frontal pic...it was the beginning of the bike and I hadn't put them on just yet!!
My hobby horse about bike position is...most triathletes carry their heads too high. Look at the gap between the tail of your helmet and your back in the side view. Some time when you are out on a ride on a flat section, wind it up and work really hard. Then drop your head, trying to tuck your ears down below your shoulders. You should notice a few things:
To get really radical, aim your line of vision down further about 10 feet in front - dangerous to do without continually peeking up to see ahead, but a real eye opener in terms of how much impact the head/helmet, which is the biggest single thing in the frontal plane hitting the wind, has on aerodynamics.
Also, what's that damn bottle doing in your back pocket???!!!
Totally busted on the water in the back pocket. I had 2 gatorades and was feeling sick of it so wanted to pick up some water. But didn't want to toss the gatorade. I totally regretted it when I saw the pic!!!
Yeah, my comments apply no matter what position you are in on the bike. Take a look sometime at a slo-mo video of pro cyclists sprinting for the line, particular one with Cavendish in the picture. Almost always, you'll note that his head is lower than all the guys he's beating. Since they're going 45 mph @ that point, it probably is part of the reason he's a touch better than most everyone.
As to your fit/position, it's so hard to make comments based on static photos, especially if one is not a trained expert bike fitter. But just eyeballing, there might be a little bit of opportunity to get a smidge lower/flatter (but back flatness is not as important as just being lower). How to get there - the nunaces of cleat position, seat tube angle, saddle placement, aerobar position and angle, etc etc. is best left to guys who know what they are doing. That's why we pay them $200-300.
I'm like you; I last got fitted two years ago, and have been fiddling with my position ever since. I probably should go back after IM AZ and get an overhaul.
Yes consider getting the elbows closer together. As i understand it, that is not nothing.
And as Al mentions maybe getting the elbows down a bit. Which MAY involve getting the seat a bit more forward after you drop the armrests.
Here is me before and after a professional bike fit. Welcome any feedback.
This is my first time owning a proper tri bike. I trained/raced on a road bike up until about a month ago.
Notes from the fitter:
BEFORE
Shoulder angle should be between 90-95
Arm should feel like a stick, no shoulder muscle work.
Too scrunched. Will strain the shoulders and neck.
Saddle too low. More pressue on the front of the knee and less efficient.
AFTER
Good shoulder angle
Hips more open = more power
Skeleton will support the body, not the muscles.
Good saddle height. Less pressure on the front of the knee and more efficient.
Matt, try dropping a couple of spacers from your stem and see what that does. Your position is pretty good overall but you could get lower. Try narrowing your bars as well. Some wind tunnel data has shown a definite cut in frontal drag by narrowing the bars.
As for the helmet... one thing you could do is to push the front of the helmet higher up on your forehead which would then drop the tail. Will it stay there or constantly slide back down is another question. This is one of the reasons the new bobtail helmet designs are becoming more and more popular: the tail position has less of an impact on the aeroness of the helmet. I tried a bunch of aero helmets and found the Rudy worked best for me but as you can see in my pics above that there's still some separation between tail and shoulders and there wasn't anything more I could do about it. I switched to the Kask Bambino a couple of months ago. It's lighter, more comfortable and I didn't need to worry about my head position as much. I couldn't give you statistics on whether or not it tests better in a tunnel on me or not.