Been meaning to get around to it for a while, but I finally took some video of me on my bike. Only fitting I've had was when I got it 2 years and a few thousand miles ago. As a relatively new rider, I had no major feedback to give the person as to whether anything felt right or not.
Since the original fitting, I've replaced the saddle and at the time I lowered the seat a smidge to adjust for the extra height of the gel vs solid saddle. I recently raised the seat up about 3/4 inch though, because it felt a tad cramped, especially when in the bars. Another thing I've noticed - during FTP workouts when in the bars, my inner thighs get a tad uncomfortable. Not sure whether thats from the effort output and therefore considered normal, or whether it could be related to fit. Also, sometimes the toes of one foot go numb temporarily - but I think that is more cleat position than anything. And I can't remember which foot it is (so apparently it's not that big a deal). Other then that, no real major issues - so overall I'd say it's pretty darn close, but I'm just looking to see if there are any obvious tweaks that can be made.
(EDIT: With no front angle, you can't tell - but the width between the bars is 5.5". I suspect the bars might be a bit too far forward, and I set it up that way to avoid colliding with my knees. Never really toyed around with bar width to compensate so that the bars could be brought back).
I often avoid commenting on the road bike trying to be setup like a tri bike because my eye for a good fit is far better with a tri bike.
That stated... your seat is still too low. I'd probably go up another 1/2" at least. I'd also lower that stem some. I don't want to comment on your seat position because I don't know shit about road bike angles and positions. If that was a tri bike I'd say to slide the saddle forward to get steeper and open up the hip angle. I think the same theory applies I just don't know what collateral issues it causes with a road bike.
I often avoid commenting on the road bike trying to be setup like a tri bike because my eye for a good fit is far better with a tri bike.
That stated... your seat is still too low. I'd probably go up another 1/2" at least. I'd also lower that stem some. I don't want to comment on your seat position because I don't know shit about road bike angles and positions. If that was a tri bike I'd say to slide the saddle forward to get steeper and open up the hip angle. I think the same theory applies I just don't know what collateral issues it causes with a road bike.
Hey Bob -
Thanks for the feedback. I was thinking that I might be able to go a tad higher on the seat as well to get slightly longer leg extension, and maybe tilt the nose down just a tad, but that would be more to relieve pressure to avoid saddle neuropathy - the gel saddle with the cutout helped, but it still crops up if I don't slightly change positions around every so often.
The stem currently has two spacers, so it could be lowered - but I don't know the secondary effects (I like your phrase 'collateral issues'!) that would have.
I actually had the same thought to try and open the hip angle up, but to me that seems like it might get too aggressive for a road bike fitting, and based on the first couple posts in this thread, trying to set up a roadie for a tri position is kind of a no-no. So I'm not looking to get into a super-aggressive fitting, just looking to see what might be able to be done to minimize dead spots and so forth.
Hey Ryan — I am in the middle of a fit from Todd @ TTBikefit. I can't say enough good things about the experience. He makes a suggestion based on a short video I send him and he gets back to me the next day. IMO, it's a great service for $199, and I live in Australia. Just saying
Hey Ryan — I am in the middle of a fit from Todd @ TTBikefit. I can't say enough good things about the experience.
He makes a suggestion based on a short video I send him and he gets back to me the next day. IMO, it's a great service for $199, and I live in Australia.
Just saying
Thanks Peter! I'm considering going to TTbikefit (fortunately he lives relatively close to me), but thought I'd see what the masses had to say first. If I had been having major issues with my current fit, it'd be a no brainer - but whereas I'm generally fairly comfortable already - it's hard to say whether a whole new fit would be of major benefit. It could be - I just don't know.
A friend of mine actually got a fit from Todd last week and found out he has abnormal proportions (exceptionally long femur), so the list of bike frames that fit him is relatively short - like, 3 models, depending on the production year. Todd had to look low and high to find the right frame, but the bike is on order. I heard of Todd prior to joining EN, and everyone here has had nothing but exceptional experiences with him, so needless to say I'll be going there when I eventually get a Tri bike.
Ryan, I've been meaning to do the same thing--upload a video on my bike. I was professionally fit a few years ago, and I've tweaked my fit over time as I've changed saddles, cranks, bars, shifters, etc. I have the same difficulty that others have in seeing a good fit on a road bike converted to tri--I'm assuming that is what you have because of the drop bars and round tubes. And my first impression is that you could experiment with a higher seat, lower aerobars (do they call that the stack?--I don't remember), and you'll have to work out your fore/aft seat position because lowering the front will pull you forward on the saddle. I ride a fairly aggressive position with my bars a couple of inches below my seat height giving me a flat back and a nice aero profile. You have a fairly upright riding position even in your aerobars which is probably comfortable, but over time you may want to experiment with lower bars to gain more aero advantage. IMHO, you might be well served to pick up a lower-end, tri-specific bike at a dealer who will give you a fit along with the bike. You might be surprised at the difference a little frame geometry makes. Just my random thoughts.
Like others, I've been meaning to upload a short video of my riding position for a critique. Please let me know if you see anyting that I can tweak. FYI, I was professionally fit three years ago, although I have changed saddles and adjusted the seat height a little. I have to keep some tension in my shoulders to keep from pitching forward, so I wouldn't say my riding position is totally relaxed. I also have a little side to side rock that might be worked out. If you see anything, please let me know. The video is at http://youtu.be/wM-Kd8Wq5Kg
Well, you already know I know $#!^ about bike fitting, but the one thing that jumped out at me, especially because you called it out, is the hip rocking. It seems to me that part of the hip rock is to get the reach required for the low point of the pedal arc - like your body has to adjust (ie, lower the hip) in order for your foot to reach the bottom. When you adjusted the seat height, was it to raise it? Only reason it came to mind was that when I was getting fit (years ago), that was mentioned as a way to know when the seat was too high - when you have to lower your hip to reach. However, that was with a road bike.
Feel free to ignore this if it seems I'm full of crap, or if someone with real knowledge makes a comment
@Ryan, it's funny how after the question comes up, the answer seems obvious. I have raised my seat a little, and this may cause some of the rocking. I notice that my leg looks a little straight and I even point my toe a little at the bottom of my pedal stroke. I think that maybe I'll lower the seat 3/8" and see how that feels. Thanks for the feedback.
Steven — the only things I know about bike fit is what I am learning from Todd from TTbikefit (he is currently fitting me). As you and Ryan noted, the seat looks too high. The other thing Todd was changing in my set up was moving the seat forward so the nose of the seat was forward of the crank, and then the bars had to move forward with a longer extender. I can't say enough good things about Todd.
Thanks, Peter. The seat height issue seems almost obvious now, but I just didn't see it until I taped myself and posted the video. I would like to get a new bike fit as soon as the money tree grows a few new leaves. Right now I'm saving to fund IMTX entry.
I lowered my seat about 3/8" before my race this Saturday. I felt much less rocking in my hips. I think my back felt a little better too. Thanks for all your feedback. I included the link to my bike video in case anyone else has some feedback.
Steven, your seat is still too high. I'd drop it at least another 1/2 inch then take another video. Then I'll probably tell you to drop it some more. Your leg is extending too much which makes your hips rock more (you already knew that) but it's also causing an inefficient pedal stroke. Watch the video and pay attention to what your feet and ankles are doing.
I'd also move more forward on the saddle and lose some spacers. You also need to prop the aero helmet higher up on your forehead in order for the tail to sit closer to your back.
Now that tri season is over for me I'd like to get reacquainted with my road bike. I have never had my road bike set up to ride- I used to for two seasons as a pseudo tri bike, I have taken off the aero bars, put on the original seatpost and I think it's ready to go... except I can't seem to get comfy on it. My hands go numb within 15 minutes, and I feel too stretched out. Does anyone have a good resource they use for road bike setups? I'd like to do some Gran Fondo rides next summer so if I can get a head start on making this bike comfy (hoping this does not involve as much $$ as the tri bike to get fit properly!!).
@ Steve — as Bob has noted, you are way too high (watch your feet at the bottom of your stroke). Also, I would try and move the seat forward if you can and I would also tilt the nose of the seat down a bit.
Sorry, I should have specified, the video posted is pre-seat-lowering. After the first couple of posts I lowered it about 3/8 and it felt much better. I'm digesting the suggestions to move the seat forward and lose some spacers. Am too extended/spread out? Is this why I should move my seat forward? On losing some spacers, is that to give me a flatter back? I appreciate all the feedback (wish I could take you guys to the pool to watch my swim sessions).
@Becky - While I can't point you to a resource for a road bike setup, I can tell you that I've had the numb hand issue before. In my case, it came down to too much pressure on the hands - either because core strength was lacking to keep my torso up, or the bike was fit in such a way that I was 'leaning' into the handlebars. Your wording of feeling too spaced out reminds me of that. When I got an improved fit on my road bike when I purchased it a couple years ago, I was fit in a fairly upright position (as Steven mentioned in his post after mine where I posted by video link), which meant a somewhat low seat and two spacers on the handlebars. Not very aero, but at least I could feel my fingers at the end of the ride It wasn't a TTbikefit type of fit - just a normal fit from a local bike shop, so maybe that is a place to start, since they deal with road bikes quite a bit?
@ all. If you can scrape together $199 Us, then I really strongley suggest you get on to Todd @ TTbikefit, I thought my TT bike fit was close to perfect but DW (Dear Wife) said "why don't you use the guys EN suggest?". I ended up moving my seat forward 10 cm, at least ( and the bars forward 5 cms and lower by 4 cm (I have a P3 Cevelo) and it fells way more comfortable and I must be able to make much more power (given how much more open my hip angle is). Sorry to keep going back to how good Todd is but that's how I found him.
Sorry, I should have specified, the video posted is pre-seat-lowering. After the first couple of posts I lowered it about 3/8 and it felt much better. I'm digesting the suggestions to move the seat forward and lose some spacers. Am too extended/spread out? Is this why I should move my seat forward? On losing some spacers, is that to give me a flatter back? I appreciate all the feedback (wish I could take you guys to the pool to watch my swim sessions).
You need to drop the saddle more than 3/8" - probably another 5/8" to make an inch.
As to your other question - you're a little stretched out and moving forward will help. Getting lower will help flaaten out your back but dropping spacers will also stretch you out more so moving forward on the saddle is imperative either way.
I have been working with Todd from TTbike fit to determine the ideal NEW Bike and fit for me and there is one "major" change he suggests which is reducing my crank lenght from the current 172.5 to 165!!! .... Being completely ignorant on the subject I reach to the haus' wisdom for opinions!!!
There is a lot of opinions on this with extensive talks on slowtwitch and other sites but the basic theory is that opens up the hip angle a bit to allow more power to be produced in the aero position. Notice how you can always produce more power on a road bike versus a TT bike where you sit much more upright. Opening the hip angle allows you to recruit more muscles to push the bike just a little bit harder while also being easier on the knees.
I shortened my cranks from 175mm to 170mm and do find that I can spin easier. Also don't forget that if you shorten the cranks you will have to adjust your seat height the same distance, upward.
I went from 172.5 to 167.5 this year. The major diffrerence I've experienced is, I'm able to get my front end lower because, my knees are no longer so close to my chest when the pedal is at its high point. That 1 cm height difference means a lot - I raise the saddle by 5 mm to account for my foot being 5mm higher at the lowest point; the shorter crank at its highest point means my up leg is another 5 mm lower compared to my chest, total 1 cm more room to drop my chest down to stay out of the wind. That improved aero position may not increase my power at all, but will increase my speed at the same power (or, in my case, keep my speed the same while my power slowly declines with age.)
For me, raise saddle, lower front end, same hip angle. I only lowered the front end by 5 mm, the width of one spacer, I may try another spacer this winter. Also, the fore-aft position of the saddle has to be tweaked in all this.
looking for feedback...... my bike fit in 2011 felt great. legs felt strong, had my best time in Placid with a 5:42 on the bike and legs still felt great coming off the bike. this year, 2012 has been a set back. my legs(quads and hams) always feel fatigued/achy after 1.5 - 2 hrs. I have been re fitted twice this year by supposedly the best fitter in town. Athletes actually travel from other towns to fit with this guy, he has quite a reputation. I am training for bone island tri (iron distance) this january 2013 and did a RR yesterday and my legs felt terrible. I actually rode at a very low HR/pwer. My speed was 16-17 mph and my legs ached. I only biked 85 miles in 5:35 and had to stop. Any suggestions? I'm heading back to the fitter but would like to go with some ideas of my own. thanks everyone....
x Another. I am a very, very satisfied customer of Todd. In fact, I am planning on working with him this coming year to see if we can/should improve my fit now that I have a year and a half on my current bike.
@ all. If you can scrape together $199 Us, then I really strongley suggest you get on to Todd @ TTbikefit, I thought my TT bike fit was close to perfect but DW (Dear Wife) said "why don't you use the guys EN suggest?".
I ended up moving my seat forward 10 cm, at least ( and the bars forward 5 cms and lower by 4 cm (I have a P3 Cevelo) and it fells way more comfortable and I must be able to make much more power (given how much more open my hip angle is).
Sorry to keep going back to how good Todd is but that's how I found him.
I was going to ask if you went in person or did it remotely, then I saw your location.
How did that process work? A bunch of back and forth? Video, or just stills??
I just took some video of the bike from front and both sides without me, then me in those positions on the hoods, and finally in those positions on the TT bars. I then sent him the link to Dropbox (he uses another remote system but as I aleady had Dropbox, that's what we used).
Todd then gives you adjustments to try, then repeat until he is happy.
Todd moved my seat forward a heap and lowered the front a fair bit.
He checks the seat height and even the cleat position.
I have noticed that it is more comfortable and much more stable — and I assume faster.
Comments
Been meaning to get around to it for a while, but I finally took some video of me on my bike. Only fitting I've had was when I got it 2 years and a few thousand miles ago. As a relatively new rider, I had no major feedback to give the person as to whether anything felt right or not.
Since the original fitting, I've replaced the saddle and at the time I lowered the seat a smidge to adjust for the extra height of the gel vs solid saddle. I recently raised the seat up about 3/4 inch though, because it felt a tad cramped, especially when in the bars. Another thing I've noticed - during FTP workouts when in the bars, my inner thighs get a tad uncomfortable. Not sure whether thats from the effort output and therefore considered normal, or whether it could be related to fit. Also, sometimes the toes of one foot go numb temporarily - but I think that is more cleat position than anything. And I can't remember which foot it is (so apparently it's not that big a deal). Other then that, no real major issues - so overall I'd say it's pretty darn close, but I'm just looking to see if there are any obvious tweaks that can be made.
Here is it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRAUoIIrSe4&feature=autoplay&list=PL4CF85AB25E75E6E1&playnext=1
Thanks!
(EDIT: With no front angle, you can't tell - but the width between the bars is 5.5". I suspect the bars might be a bit too far forward, and I set it up that way to avoid colliding with my knees. Never really toyed around with bar width to compensate so that the bars could be brought back).
That stated... your seat is still too low. I'd probably go up another 1/2" at least. I'd also lower that stem some. I don't want to comment on your seat position because I don't know shit about road bike angles and positions. If that was a tri bike I'd say to slide the saddle forward to get steeper and open up the hip angle. I think the same theory applies I just don't know what collateral issues it causes with a road bike.
Hey Bob -
Thanks for the feedback. I was thinking that I might be able to go a tad higher on the seat as well to get slightly longer leg extension, and maybe tilt the nose down just a tad, but that would be more to relieve pressure to avoid saddle neuropathy - the gel saddle with the cutout helped, but it still crops up if I don't slightly change positions around every so often.
The stem currently has two spacers, so it could be lowered - but I don't know the secondary effects (I like your phrase 'collateral issues'!) that would have.
I actually had the same thought to try and open the hip angle up, but to me that seems like it might get too aggressive for a road bike fitting, and based on the first couple posts in this thread, trying to set up a roadie for a tri position is kind of a no-no. So I'm not looking to get into a super-aggressive fitting, just looking to see what might be able to be done to minimize dead spots and so forth.
He makes a suggestion based on a short video I send him and he gets back to me the next day. IMO, it's a great service for $199, and I live in Australia.
Just saying
Thanks Peter! I'm considering going to TTbikefit (fortunately he lives relatively close to me), but thought I'd see what the masses had to say first. If I had been having major issues with my current fit, it'd be a no brainer - but whereas I'm generally fairly comfortable already - it's hard to say whether a whole new fit would be of major benefit. It could be - I just don't know.
A friend of mine actually got a fit from Todd last week and found out he has abnormal proportions (exceptionally long femur), so the list of bike frames that fit him is relatively short - like, 3 models, depending on the production year. Todd had to look low and high to find the right frame, but the bike is on order. I heard of Todd prior to joining EN, and everyone here has had nothing but exceptional experiences with him, so needless to say I'll be going there when I eventually get a Tri bike.
Like others, I've been meaning to upload a short video of my riding position for a critique. Please let me know if you see anyting that I can tweak. FYI, I was professionally fit three years ago, although I have changed saddles and adjusted the seat height a little. I have to keep some tension in my shoulders to keep from pitching forward, so I wouldn't say my riding position is totally relaxed. I also have a little side to side rock that might be worked out. If you see anything, please let me know. The video is at http://youtu.be/wM-Kd8Wq5Kg
Well, you already know I know $#!^ about bike fitting, but the one thing that jumped out at me, especially because you called it out, is the hip rocking. It seems to me that part of the hip rock is to get the reach required for the low point of the pedal arc - like your body has to adjust (ie, lower the hip) in order for your foot to reach the bottom. When you adjusted the seat height, was it to raise it?
Only reason it came to mind was that when I was getting fit (years ago), that was mentioned as a way to know when the seat was too high - when you have to lower your hip to reach. However, that was with a road bike.
Feel free to ignore this if it seems I'm full of crap, or if someone with real knowledge makes a comment
As you and Ryan noted, the seat looks too high.
The other thing Todd was changing in my set up was moving the seat forward so the nose of the seat was forward of the crank, and then the bars had to move forward with a longer extender.
I can't say enough good things about Todd.
I lowered my seat about 3/8" before my race this Saturday. I felt much less rocking in my hips. I think my back felt a little better too. Thanks for all your feedback. I included the link to my bike video in case anyone else has some feedback.
http://youtu.be/wM-Kd8Wq5Kg
I'd also move more forward on the saddle and lose some spacers. You also need to prop the aero helmet higher up on your forehead in order for the tail to sit closer to your back.
I ended up moving my seat forward 10 cm, at least ( and the bars forward 5 cms and lower by 4 cm (I have a P3 Cevelo) and it fells way more comfortable and I must be able to make much more power (given how much more open my hip angle is).
Sorry to keep going back to how good Todd is but that's how I found him.
You need to drop the saddle more than 3/8" - probably another 5/8" to make an inch.
As to your other question - you're a little stretched out and moving forward will help. Getting lower will help flaaten out your back but dropping spacers will also stretch you out more so moving forward on the saddle is imperative either way.
I have been working with Todd from TTbike fit to determine the ideal NEW Bike and fit for me and there is one "major" change he suggests which is reducing my crank lenght from the current 172.5 to 165!!! .... Being completely ignorant on the subject I reach to the haus' wisdom for opinions!!!
I shortened my cranks from 175mm to 170mm and do find that I can spin easier. Also don't forget that if you shorten the cranks you will have to adjust your seat height the same distance, upward.
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/cgi-bin/gforum.cgi?do=search_results&search_forum=forum_1&search_type=AND&search_string=shorter+cranks&sb=post_time&x=0&y=0
http://velonews.competitor.com/search?q=shorter+crank
I went from 172.5 to 167.5 this year. The major diffrerence I've experienced is, I'm able to get my front end lower because, my knees are no longer so close to my chest when the pedal is at its high point. That 1 cm height difference means a lot - I raise the saddle by 5 mm to account for my foot being 5mm higher at the lowest point; the shorter crank at its highest point means my up leg is another 5 mm lower compared to my chest, total 1 cm more room to drop my chest down to stay out of the wind. That improved aero position may not increase my power at all, but will increase my speed at the same power (or, in my case, keep my speed the same while my power slowly declines with age.)
For me, raise saddle, lower front end, same hip angle. I only lowered the front end by 5 mm, the width of one spacer, I may try another spacer this winter. Also, the fore-aft position of the saddle has to be tweaked in all this.
joe
just saying
x Another. I am a very, very satisfied customer of Todd. In fact, I am planning on working with him this coming year to see if we can/should improve my fit now that I have a year and a half on my current bike.
I was going to ask if you went in person or did it remotely, then I saw your location.
How did that process work? A bunch of back and forth? Video, or just stills??
Todd then gives you adjustments to try, then repeat until he is happy.
Todd moved my seat forward a heap and lowered the front a fair bit.
He checks the seat height and even the cleat position.
I have noticed that it is more comfortable and much more stable — and I assume faster.
Amazing what we can do over the Internet. I may go down that route too. Thanks.
Arizona 2012. Getting closer with Todd Kenyon. 11 cm to 18 cm drop.