I am in- pink camo would be neat! I can also go with the black (seems to wear better in the SUPER chlorinated pool we have cooking). We'll all need to buy countless suits across the season so why not go whole hog. Gals- I'm not one to roll with the crowd and it's not often that I want to wear what everyone else is wearing- simply not my style. As Linda said, to me, this is also a once in a lifetime super cool event. If not for the lure of training and racing with some of my good friends, I'd be on the HIM trail this year. I for one, am def counting into tapping into each and every one of you to channel you on those long dark days and looking forward to celebrating the successes. You guys all help keep this real!
Girls?? what are you signing up for? the 12 or 20 week plan and beginner or intermed. I think the 20 week plan would start sometimes this month so was trying to update my plan and somehow I don't think I got it right! what's going on with y'all?? I was thinking 20 week intermediate... and since I don't have Excel never did get that spreadsheet. Leigh thanks for mailing poster.
Mirroring Gina. 20 week, April 26, Beg. The Int. nearly killed me last time. Too much recovery needed. I wouldn't mind sharing info with someone and do a week by week comparison of the Beg vs. Int. Good way to ramp up or back off depending on how you're feeling. It's more a curiosity thing, because I know the Beg will be enough for me, and get me to the line rockin'.
M- I am starting the 20 week plan on April 26th. Planning on the beginner version and NOT shamed of it!!
Ask Bill Russell if he's ashamed of doing the BEg plan that got him to his sub-12 PR--with extra recovery days and time off built in. He's my self-coached hero. Int. cooked him for CdA.
I was actually thinking of doing Half IM 12 weeks until late June (to get my ready for a half I'm doing July 18) and then switching to IM 12 weeks then...both intermediate.
Looking at first two weeks though of that Half IM, I might have to self hack. They have run workouts on Monday at TP...I pretty much either do a light a swim or take off Mondays.
I wish there was a way we could take a look at all the plans ...compare the first two weeks or see what some middle two weeks look like for all the plans to see what the difference is.
Right now I am in tranistion week # 2 and if you haven't noticed my loving it thread, well then IAMLOVINGIT So, Monday April 5th I am planning on starting the int. HIM plan for 10 weeks. I am doing Liberty HIM June 12 in Minneapolis. Then a week off with the horribly hilly hundreds thrown in there on sat. Monday morning June 21st I will start IM plan for 12 weeks. I was going to do int, but with the talk on this thread coming from the IM Vets like Linda, M. and Gina, I'm wondering if I should be doing beginner as well, since I am a beginner IM. I am with you Pam wish we could see both plans and compare. So does anyone know what the difference is between beg and int? Volume? Just more work in all areas?
Kathy you and I are on a similar schedule. Im in a transition period as well.
I'm not as concerned about the beginner vs intermediate of IM based on the changes they had said they were making.
I am rethinking doin the HIM plan. It's like OS on steriods. You have TP runs on Monday and as part of your Thursday long run. No days off and Monday is a run work out with intensity. I know my 47 year old body. I need either a light swim or rest on Mondays. Its heavy on running and for me personally I don't need that much as my run strength comes from the bike. (I'd rather have a 4th day of biking) So I will either hack that plan OR....
I'm thinking of doing general prep through June and then swithc to 12 week intermediate IM plan.
Anyone know the difference between doing the 20 week IM plan or doing general prep and then switching to 12 week plan.
Boy I'd really like to see a plan comparison for two weeks of each plan...and nothe first week where half the days are about be sure and read your docs (as they were in the old preview plan boxes.)
Pam, what is the difference between the general prep plans and the HIM plans? I have been under the assumption that general prep is also included in all the plans until further on in the plan when race prep kicks in? I am with you though on the intensity run stuff, just about did me in in OS, so I will most likely hack the run stuff in the plan or maybe go to beginner plan.
Not sure of difference as I can't find a way to get a peek into the general prep without having to reload plans again (which really isn't a big deal.) Looking at the first two weeks of HIM plan...nothing general to me. It's almost all hard stuff (except Tues and Friday.)
If I stick with the HIM I think I will move the Monday interval run to Tuesday (in place of the Tuesday normal run) so that on Monday I either swim or take day off.
I'm being naughty and instead of doing my work I'm poking around in my various EN manuals looking for some clues.
LOL. I better get to work otherwise I will then get behind and then have a stomach ache about that. Too funny.
Okay looking at the long course manual...the general prep and reace prep for IM seems more suited to my preferred schedule...day off or swim on Mondays, tues bike and Wed is an interval run, thu long run..etc. I don't know if that manual is current thinking but it works better. So now I just have to understand the difference between general prep 1 and 2...and doing IM 20 week vs. that or doing general prep and moving to IM 12 week.
Let's take a step back about the Beg plans. There is nothing "beginner" about them, if you ask me. Whether you do Beg, Int or Adv, IMO, it's all about how much you can ABSORB, and be CONSISTENTLY hitting the workouts without sliding backwards from getting overcooked. That's the entire key to this training. Mancona and DBoyle can do adv, and come out looking for more. Bill Russell knocks an IM out of the park on the "beg" plan with taking extra time off. I'm going to be like a broken record, but this is the self-coached part. The part where we have to stop seeing the plans as a straight line, and be willing to bob and weave, ratchet up and back down. That's why I want to see the Int at the same time. There are places and times when I can do a bit more, and times when I need to scale back. Although, from what I recall in past years, the difference between the two is not that great. I wish we could rename the plans to something like moderate, high moderate, Intense--it would change the mindset.
For instance, last time I trained with EN, I would scale back to a "beg" Sunday ride when I needed to (although I did not do that nearly enough). Then I went to the Adv long-run schedule and did an extra 2:30 because I felt good and thought I needed it (didn't need it in the final analysis). Just a gentle word not to get hung up on the labels. We'll share info and help each other work to the nth without going (too far) into that dark place. Cuz, you know, you have to go there a little.
Agree Linda. The labels aren't my issue as much as finding a plan that looks like it's best suited for me for all the reasons you mentioned as well the scheduled workouts.
Nemo -- you are not behind. No one is as this point. It really is about picking the best path to get to the key 12 weeks of race prep.
I think the bottom line is would be nice to compare a one or two week slice of each plan.
I did try loading in the general prep plans to eye ball those can't get those loaded at all no matter what end day I put down so now I'm plan naked. LOL.
Okay back to work. We'll figure it out and we'll all be great.
Good insights Pam and Linda. I am confused about General prep and race prep plans vs. straight up HIM and IM plans. Guess I missed something along the way, as I thought they were one and the same. Pam you mentioned you found that info in the Long Course Manual. Is that in the train map under downloads? I am with you Pam on swim mondays or day off. Those recovery days are a must for me. Yep, like Linda said, we need to self manage this stuff and do what works for each. I am so used to just getting a plan and doing what it says and not bothering to think much about it. Last year I used a 20wk HIM plan from Ironguides.com. Believe it or not they had no scheduled day off days, but the thought was take them when you need them. But, they also had the swim days structured to follow hard interval days and same day swim if workout was hard. There was alot of swimming in that plan. Anyhow, I really appreciate the help on here, it is so valuable.
Very interesting. I'm going back to the Intermediate OS next week, hacked with a long run and a long bike + swimming until High Cliff 1/2 in June. Then I'm switching to an IM plan. Rich thinks the intermediate ironman will be fine. I'm wondering if I should stick with that plan -- my single girl status gives me lots and lots of free time -- or scale back to beginner, especially since this is my first Ironman.
-- my single girl status gives me lots and lots of free time -- or scale back to beginner, especially since this is my first Ironman.
Rethink as you go along. It's not about how much time you have, but what you can handle physically, absorb, and build on. First or 10th IM, I do not believe it matters.
Very interesting. I'm going back to the Intermediate OS next week, hacked with a long run and a long bike + swimming until High Cliff 1/2 in June. Then I'm switching to an IM plan. Rich thinks the intermediate ironman will be fine. I'm wondering if I should stick with that plan -- my single girl status gives me lots and lots of free time -- or scale back to beginner, especially since this is my first Ironman.
Beth- I'd be interested in talking with you the details of executing this. You are I are in a similar place (HIM planned for June, not really very far through the OS) except of course my "long run" right now is just 2x20'!
Linda's dead on- it's not about how much time you have to do the WORK, it's how much ability you have to recover and ABSORB the work. Intermediate probably is find for you- but just keep a close eye on the signs of overtraining & fatigue. As Linda said- this is where we have to be aware of that self-coach thing and not follow the plans into a brick wall!
Very interesting. I'm going back to the Intermediate OS next week, hacked with a long run and a long bike + swimming until High Cliff 1/2 in June. Then I'm switching to an IM plan. Rich thinks the intermediate ironman will be fine. I'm wondering if I should stick with that plan -- my single girl status gives me lots and lots of free time -- or scale back to beginner, especially since this is my first Ironman.
Beth, question what made you decide on continuing with OS with some hacks vs. HIM training plan? Doesn't the HIM plan also have long run + long bike + swimming? What is the difference? Pam mentioned that HIM plan is OS on steroids....I'm getting the picture that the HIM plan is all race prep with no general prep. Sounds like then you are doing mostly general prep for your HIM then switiching to 12 week int IM plan in JUne....does that sound correct? Sorry for all the questions....kind of feel like I stumbled onto something this morning that I don't understand and am kind of freakin out
Nemo and Kathy - Here's my draft of a hacked OS. I'm thinking the main difference between this and prep is shorter, more intense workouts and, AND, this is the big brain saver for me -- one long ride on the weekend instead of two. And I still get an off day.
Linda -- I like the idea of calling the Beginner/Intermediate plan as I see it. Legs and head will surely make the call.
I jumped into the HIM Int plan heading toward Kansas first weekend in June. I was already doing the swimming so staying on the OS didn't make sense for me anymore. I am still winging it a bit, adding extra bike miles and power work. I'm squeezing 3 States, 3 Mtns century ride in first of May (hold the rain and lightening plse, this year. Had an extra serving last year )
I do find I need the mental break so Monday swims are optional for me pending what my body says (not my brain, it always says sleep in Mondays!) I am also keeping 1-2 sessions of yoga (30 mins) and 10 mins core 4-5X to stay strong and healthy. I am also rolling (foam roller and tennis ball) following the fabulous Leigh's instructions. Honestly gal- what would my poor legs do without you???
In an office hours call several weeks back, I discussed this with Patrick:
- Complete full OS through 3rd week of May
- Add swim hack in April
- hack through 10 days of HIM plan before 2 week vacation aka transition (6/2-6/16)
- HIM 6/19
- Begin 12 week IM training 6/21
Patrick's recent post about triathlon run training inside EN states that by the end of OS, you should be able to run a half mary. He makes no distinction between the plans.
This is basically what I did last year and PR'd at the HIM. (No vacation last year, which is why I was burned out after that point.)
20 week plans are for those beginning near zero. They ramp up to IM over 5 months. 12 week plans are meant for those that have done OS. We ramp up to IM over 3 months.
Think of this- last year, east coast folks went to ToC with JUST the OS under their belt, no outside riding. They STILL rocked that big bike week. The OS is getting the vast majority of us ready to hit the ground running for IM training.
Michele--he recommended that to me too. Thing is, I just can't (and do not want) to jump from OS rides to the 4.5 hour ones. That's what happens going from OS to race prep. I want to start at the beginning again, with a long slow climb. And like you, time to take a breather in mid-July in Maine, after Moo camp. Something to think about. It's a HUGE jump in volume, that I could not handle physically or mentally. At least I think I couldn't.
Comments
Very cool idea about the chica gear. if there's anything I can do just lemme know.
M- poster is en route! pics to follow tonight or tomorrow.
Girls?? what are you signing up for? the 12 or 20 week plan and beginner or intermed. I think the 20 week plan would start sometimes this month so was trying to update my plan and somehow I don't think I got it right! what's going on with y'all??
I was thinking 20 week intermediate... and since I don't have Excel never did get that spreadsheet. Leigh thanks for mailing poster.
M- I am starting the 20 week plan on April 26th. Planning on the beginner version and NOT shamed of it!!
Mirroring Gina. 20 week, April 26, Beg.
The Int. nearly killed me last time. Too much recovery needed. I wouldn't mind sharing info with someone and do a week by week comparison of the Beg vs. Int. Good way to ramp up or back off depending on how you're feeling. It's more a curiosity thing, because I know the Beg will be enough for me, and get me to the line rockin'.
Ask Bill Russell if he's ashamed of doing the BEg plan that got him to his sub-12 PR--with extra recovery days and time off built in.
He's my self-coached hero. Int. cooked him for CdA.
I was actually thinking of doing Half IM 12 weeks until late June (to get my ready for a half I'm doing July 18) and then switching to IM 12 weeks then...both intermediate.
Looking at first two weeks though of that Half IM, I might have to self hack. They have run workouts on Monday at TP...I pretty much either do a light a swim or take off Mondays.
I wish there was a way we could take a look at all the plans ...compare the first two weeks or see what some middle two weeks look like for all the plans to see what the difference is.
I haven't been on Forum in a while so behind...but I love idea of swim suit or decal or whatever. I'm in.
@Linda- I can help you compare with the int plan. I think Dave is going advanced, but that cooks me by week 8-9ish so int it is.
@ M- sorry...will mail today. It made it to my car though! that's half the battle.
Right now I am in tranistion week # 2 and if you haven't noticed my loving it thread, well then IAMLOVINGIT
So, Monday April 5th I am planning on starting the int. HIM plan for 10 weeks. I am doing Liberty HIM June 12 in Minneapolis. Then a week off with the horribly hilly hundreds thrown in there on sat. Monday morning June 21st I will start IM plan for 12 weeks. I was going to do int, but with the talk on this thread coming from the IM Vets like Linda, M. and Gina, I'm wondering if I should be doing beginner as well, since I am a beginner IM. I am with you Pam wish we could see both plans and compare. So does anyone know what the difference is between beg and int? Volume? Just more work in all areas?
Kathy you and I are on a similar schedule. Im in a transition period as well.
I'm not as concerned about the beginner vs intermediate of IM based on the changes they had said they were making.
I am rethinking doin the HIM plan. It's like OS on steriods. You have TP runs on Monday and as part of your Thursday long run. No days off and Monday is a run work out with intensity. I know my 47 year old body. I need either a light swim or rest on Mondays. Its heavy on running and for me personally I don't need that much as my run strength comes from the bike. (I'd rather have a 4th day of biking) So I will either hack that plan OR....
I'm thinking of doing general prep through June and then swithc to 12 week intermediate IM plan.
Anyone know the difference between doing the 20 week IM plan or doing general prep and then switching to 12 week plan.
Boy I'd really like to see a plan comparison for two weeks of each plan...and nothe first week where half the days are about be sure and read your docs (as they were in the old preview plan boxes.)
Pam, what is the difference between the general prep plans and the HIM plans? I have been under the assumption that general prep is also included in all the plans until further on in the plan when race prep kicks in? I am with you though on the intensity run stuff, just about did me in in OS, so I will most likely hack the run stuff in the plan or maybe go to beginner plan.
Not sure of difference as I can't find a way to get a peek into the general prep without having to reload plans again (which really isn't a big deal.) Looking at the first two weeks of HIM plan...nothing general to me. It's almost all hard stuff (except Tues and Friday.)
If I stick with the HIM I think I will move the Monday interval run to Tuesday (in place of the Tuesday normal run) so that on Monday I either swim or take day off.
I'm being naughty and instead of doing my work I'm poking around in my various EN manuals looking for some clues.
LOL. I better get to work otherwise I will then get behind and then have a stomach ache about that. Too funny.
Okay looking at the long course manual...the general prep and reace prep for IM seems more suited to my preferred schedule...day off or swim on Mondays, tues bike and Wed is an interval run, thu long run..etc. I don't know if that manual is current thinking but it works better. So now I just have to understand the difference between general prep 1 and 2...and doing IM 20 week vs. that or doing general prep and moving to IM 12 week.
Okay..must work.
Let's take a step back about the Beg plans. There is nothing "beginner" about them, if you ask me. Whether you do Beg, Int or Adv, IMO, it's all about how much you can ABSORB, and be CONSISTENTLY hitting the workouts without sliding backwards from getting overcooked. That's the entire key to this training. Mancona and DBoyle can do adv, and come out looking for more. Bill Russell knocks an IM out of the park on the "beg" plan with taking extra time off. I'm going to be like a broken record, but this is the self-coached part. The part where we have to stop seeing the plans as a straight line, and be willing to bob and weave, ratchet up and back down. That's why I want to see the Int at the same time. There are places and times when I can do a bit more, and times when I need to scale back. Although, from what I recall in past years, the difference between the two is not that great. I wish we could rename the plans to something like moderate, high moderate, Intense--it would change the mindset.
For instance, last time I trained with EN, I would scale back to a "beg" Sunday ride when I needed to (although I did not do that nearly enough). Then I went to the Adv long-run schedule and did an extra 2:30 because I felt good and thought I needed it (didn't need it in the final analysis). Just a gentle word not to get hung up on the labels. We'll share info and help each other work to the nth without going (too far) into that dark place. Cuz, you know, you have to go there a little.
Agree Linda. The labels aren't my issue as much as finding a plan that looks like it's best suited for me for all the reasons you mentioned as well the scheduled workouts.
Nemo -- you are not behind. No one is as this point. It really is about picking the best path to get to the key 12 weeks of race prep.
I think the bottom line is would be nice to compare a one or two week slice of each plan.
I did try loading in the general prep plans to eye ball those can't get those loaded at all no matter what end day I put down so now I'm plan naked. LOL.
Okay back to work. We'll figure it out and we'll all be great.
Good insights Pam and Linda. I am confused about General prep and race prep plans vs. straight up HIM and IM plans. Guess I missed something along the way, as I thought they were one and the same. Pam you mentioned you found that info in the Long Course Manual. Is that in the train map under downloads? I am with you Pam on swim mondays or day off. Those recovery days are a must for me. Yep, like Linda said, we need to self manage this stuff and do what works for each. I am so used to just getting a plan and doing what it says and not bothering to think much about it. Last year I used a 20wk HIM plan from Ironguides.com. Believe it or not they had no scheduled day off days, but the thought was take them when you need them. But, they also had the swim days structured to follow hard interval days and same day swim if workout was hard. There was alot of swimming in that plan. Anyhow, I really appreciate the help on here, it is so valuable.
Very interesting. I'm going back to the Intermediate OS next week, hacked with a long run and a long bike + swimming until High Cliff 1/2 in June. Then I'm switching to an IM plan. Rich thinks the intermediate ironman will be fine. I'm wondering if I should stick with that plan -- my single girl status gives me lots and lots of free time -- or scale back to beginner, especially since this is my first Ironman.
Rethink as you go along. It's not about how much time you have, but what you can handle physically, absorb, and build on. First or 10th IM, I do not believe it matters.
Beth- I'd be interested in talking with you the details of executing this. You are I are in a similar place (HIM planned for June, not really very far through the OS) except of course my "long run" right now is just 2x20'!
Linda's dead on- it's not about how much time you have to do the WORK, it's how much ability you have to recover and ABSORB the work. Intermediate probably is find for you- but just keep a close eye on the signs of overtraining & fatigue. As Linda said- this is where we have to be aware of that self-coach thing and not follow the plans into a brick wall!
Beth, question what made you decide on continuing with OS with some hacks vs. HIM training plan? Doesn't the HIM plan also have long run + long bike + swimming? What is the difference? Pam mentioned that HIM plan is OS on steroids....I'm getting the picture that the HIM plan is all race prep with no general prep. Sounds like then you are doing mostly general prep for your HIM then switiching to 12 week int IM plan in JUne....does that sound correct? Sorry for all the questions....kind of feel like I stumbled onto something this morning that I don't understand and am kind of freakin out
Nemo and Kathy - Here's my draft of a hacked OS. I'm thinking the main difference between this and prep is shorter, more intense workouts and, AND, this is the big brain saver for me -- one long ride on the weekend instead of two. And I still get an off day.
Linda -- I like the idea of calling the Beginner/Intermediate plan as I see it. Legs and head will surely make the call.
Swim patches, draft one. Thoughts, ladies?
Beth-
Love the second one- wayyyyy cool!
I jumped into the HIM Int plan heading toward Kansas first weekend in June. I was already doing the swimming so staying on the OS didn't make sense for me anymore. I am still winging it a bit, adding extra bike miles and power work. I'm squeezing 3 States, 3 Mtns century ride in first of May (hold the rain and lightening plse, this year. Had an extra serving last year
)
I do find I need the mental break so Monday swims are optional for me pending what my body says (not my brain, it always says sleep in Mondays!) I am also keeping 1-2 sessions of yoga (30 mins) and 10 mins core 4-5X to stay strong and healthy. I am also rolling (foam roller and tennis ball) following the fabulous Leigh's instructions. Honestly gal- what would my poor legs do without you???
In an office hours call several weeks back, I discussed this with Patrick:
- Complete full OS through 3rd week of May
- Add swim hack in April
- hack through 10 days of HIM plan before 2 week vacation aka transition (6/2-6/16)
- HIM 6/19
- Begin 12 week IM training 6/21
Patrick's recent post about triathlon run training inside EN states that by the end of OS, you should be able to run a half mary. He makes no distinction between the plans.
This is basically what I did last year and PR'd at the HIM. (No vacation last year, which is why I was burned out after that point.)
20 week plans are for those beginning near zero. They ramp up to IM over 5 months. 12 week plans are meant for those that have done OS. We ramp up to IM over 3 months.
Think of this- last year, east coast folks went to ToC with JUST the OS under their belt, no outside riding. They STILL rocked that big bike week. The OS is getting the vast majority of us ready to hit the ground running for IM training.
Michele--he recommended that to me too. Thing is, I just can't (and do not want) to jump from OS rides to the 4.5 hour ones. That's what happens going from OS to race prep. I want to start at the beginning again, with a long slow climb. And like you, time to take a breather in mid-July in Maine, after Moo camp. Something to think about. It's a HUGE jump in volume, that I could not handle physically or mentally. At least I think I couldn't.