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  • @Trish Marshall -  so proud! Please continue to take care of your other regions. We are close enough to raise that we don't want to have to deal with any issues there. You can check out Patricia Rosen's for some thoughts on that… Do your best to keep things dry! 

    And food luck luck this weekend!

    ~ Coach P 
  • RR update...made a small adjustment to seat (moved around less...yes!) and elbow pads (still hurt in neck/back -took tylenol to address) and nether regions are healing somewhat.  Much more comfy in the saddle yesterday.

    So, RR was good.  Steady, vi of 1.04, focus and nutrition were very good (hurrah!).  Slower than IMWI RR on same course, but like in FROZEN, just gonna let it go! ;)  We had perfect temps, but will write into race plan how to manage heat, as I know it can be steamy at LP.  

    This week I have family coming and a stacked saturday with zero room for the bike/brick.  I think I will adjust as follows unless you advise otherwise.  I'd don't want to skip the longer bike since a) I'm feeling pretty damn good, and b) I am not riding the 56-85 back up RR ride as you prescribed.  
    Monday: Swim/short brick
    Tuesday: Threshold bike
    Wednesday: 2:30 bike, 10' off just to run off bike-turn bike in for tune up
    Thursday: long run/ swim early - pick up bike, family arrives
    Friday: long swim...tube like a crazy lady with the kids
    Saturday: short strides run or zero...wedding shower and party/fireworks day
    Sunday: swim
    Hope this looks ok.  Trying to get in what I can, not run back to back and not lose my shit! :smiley:
  • @Trish Marshall -  I will take a good long ride any day over rides that beat past performances. Remember, it's the process on race day that sets you apart not passed speed. I feel like you've made some really good gains and dialing things in and that will all come into play on race day.

    I think your plan for this week is perfect. I can't think of a better way to taper than having family on hand and other events. My only added to your plan is maybe a 20 or 30 minutes spin with the bike from the tuneup just to help things loosen up and make sure it's all OK. As you know, sometimes cables stretch or things need to be adjusted better to know now then find out when you're packing your bike. :-)
  • Family is departing Monday a.m...I will do the bike spin on Monday early so if any issues pop up I can do the long slog to my (not so local anymore) bike shop, before my evening massage appt.  

    I know I have more questions, but yeah..can't think of it at the moment.  Will post back after second cup of joe. ;)

  • @Trish Marshall - sounds like a plan. I am sure there is plenty of stress associated with hosting your family, so maybe that counts as a workout? :-)

    Keep the questions coming, you know where to find me!
  • Now I remember!  So, if you could take a peek at my info in TP (you have my password) from my RR bike and run on saturday, should I be aiming for the avg/np power (hr on run) ?  A touch below?  Your thoughts would be appreciated.  I know my processes must be good for a good overall day.  Just don't want to under/over reach on the bike...aka screw up my run! 



  • @Trish Marshall - So a GREAT RIDE for you! NP 140 is the way to go (once you are settled) but you have to start the run as the bike AVG HR...so that means a 120-125 HR....not 140 that you ran at in your RR...the HR will come up, over the first 6 miles, but we want it to be gradual vs forcing it up early.

    Onwards!
  • Ok...truth time.  I can not run at that lower hr.  Like, I would be walking.  I looked at my IM runs, good bad and ugly and they all (except choo where I walked 13.1)  were in the 140's for avg hr over the whole run.  Low 140's for crappy runs where I walked more and mid 140's where I was running aid to aid.  I have had a few runs in the 130's on the treadmill (like yesterday which felt awesome) but only that low on the tready, never in real world conditions.  

    I also looked at my hr data for the bike it is usually avg 135-140 overall (yes, due to swim and terrain) 

    So, me thinks start the run in the 130's if at all possible still noting hr over last hour (should be able to with the downhill) and SLOWLY build from there.  I will angry walk the hills when my hr gets over 150-152.  I was thinking I *may* walk a bit longer at miles I eat (every 3), kind of like the long 3 hour run which was longer walks on even miles.  Will play that one by ear on the day.  I just need a solid plan so the brain has no OUTS. Seem reasonable? :smiley:
  • @Trish Marshall -  i'm willing to dig a little bit deeper with you, maybe you share some links with me? If your heart rate was an average of 140, then that implies some of the heart rate was below 140 and some of the heart rate was above 140. :smile:

    I bet if you can give me 6 miles of a relatively low heart rate (your choice of number) at the start of your run, the rest of your run will be much more successful.

     The other reason for the low HR at the start is so that you can eat. You should not be eating every 3 miles on the run. If that's what you doing training, that's great. But On race day you won't be able to eat beyond mile 12 -- and at 10' miles you are waiting an hour to eat your "second snack" which is way too long.  You will need to get a significant portion of your calories in during the first 6 miles when you have a lower heart rate.

    So whatever heart rate  you eventually do run out, we needed to be on the low-end for those for 6 miles so that you can eat. I personally eat something every 4 miles in Training (A gel). On race
    day I get the three gels I would normally have eaten during 13 miles consumed in the first six miles (one every 2 miles). Then it's clif bloks....and little stuff as I eventually switch to Coke etc. 


  • http://tpks.ws/RCtBT - 8 mile run last thursday on treadmill...pace is wrong...from my foot pod.  I ran 10' mile pace.

    http://tpks.ws/mfU94 - 40' brick run post RR with swim and bike

    http://tpks.ws/9namQ Last  "long" run on hot day, flat trail. 

    http://tpks.ws/u9xa7- 3 hour RR run with 2' walks vs regular walks on even miles.

    http://tpks.ws/b34gX - IMLP Camp long run

    http://tpks.ws/rA73T - IMWI run 2016

    http://tpks.ws/kaZYH - IMMT run 2014

    Recent running, and a couple IM's.  I can give you more IM if that is more relevant.  :D


  • @Trish Marshall  - thank you so much for the data! It makes such a difference.

    I went back and dug a little deeper. It turns out that in go bike's for Mont Tremblant in Wisconsin you averaged 136 HR and 134 HR respectively. So starting to run at 140 is not insane. In fact, it's exactly what you did at Mont Tremblant leading to a good run.... So not as low as I wanted, but not as high as you're thinking.  :D

    So there's two things to think about: training heart rate and racing heart rate. In training you're able to sustain a higher heart rate because you're rested. On race day by the time you get to the run you're pretty tired, that is reflected in the speed we see in the data.

    For example here is your race rehearsal run, which is a little peppy but overall well executed with an increasing heart rate, AHR 144



    And this is your heart rate file from Mont tremblant where you ran a 4:42 @ 143 AHR: 



    Every time you take a walking break, heart rate has a chance to reset and allow you to run better. We can see that in the top image where you were able to consistently get faster over those final miles despite the terrain.

    On race day however, we see your heart rate drop overtime. So while you are committed to"running" in the upper 140s / low 150s, you actually end up decreasing your heart rate overtime so that it averages out to what we're saying.

    Ideally we have you building your heart rate and not dropping. So we need more walk breaks earlier in the race strategically to keep your heart rate down see you can eat and drink. By definition it's apparent that you don't walk very much at the beginning, but you walk much more at the end.

    Since we know your average heart rate at the end of the bike will be between 135 and 138, I want you to commit to running that heart rate or 140 bpm for the first 6 miles. You should be able to do this in Lake Placid because it is net downhill. Then you will be able to stay on the gas all the way back into town at the end of lap two. 


  • Race report is up.  Things I need to work on in general: run durability, bike volume and consistency/ftp, body comp, nutrition on race day.  

    I have taken this week off from everything.  I leave Thursday for 11 days for a Maine vacation with hiking and some running.  I will schedule a call for when I return to plan attack of age up year, and marathon on 11/12 this fall.  I plan a full week off post marathon while visiting family.  I am at peace with the effort/result of IMLP.  I won't be at peace with a result like that next year.  Ready to work for the confidence I had going into IMAZ in 13, my first year with EN. Bring it. 
  • Also, food for thought.  
    Tools at my disposal: kickr, trainer road, zwift, bbs, treadmill, hilly mtb trails for runs. :smiley:
  • @Trish Marshall - can't wait to talk. Enjoy the rest, please keep me posted on what else your family destroys/crashes while On vacation.
  • Dude.  That's not funny! We are close to getting the boy back into a used car.  He is liking bright red, because no cop ever pulled over a 20 yo guy in a bright red car. :-/
  • @Trish Marshall - You live in a bad 80's movie right now!
  • @Trish Marshall - Sorry this took so long to get back to you. Here's what I am thinking for you to do into your 11/12 Marathon. You should use the balanced marathon plan as it's diverse enough to get you there with two bikes....I really want you to keep the bike work as a means of staying healthy. 

    Training
    You can modify the week there to look like this...our "sneaky" goal is to get you running up to six days a week...the "short run" are really just 2 miles, maybe 3 but no more!

    Mon - Short Run + Strength Day One
    Tue - Interval Run Day (from Thursday)
    Wed - Interval Bike Day + Steady Run
    Thu - Tempo Run (from Tuesday)
    Fri - Short Run + Strength Day (Two)
    Sat - Long Run Day
    Sun - Bike Day (No Brick Run)...optional day off or alternate aerobic day if you need it. 


    In terms of trails, you can do that on Saturday as much as you want...so fun! During the week the runs are pretty short, so not sure that will work for you...but if you want to trade out speed on Thurs for hills on a trail, I am okay with that!

    Nutrition

    I know you are thinking about it, but I'd like you to make sure the Weights Days have protein after those lift sessions...need to make sure that you have fuel for those muscles!

    Weight Lifting

    You "got a guy" I know, but here are my thoughts for you....should be 60% upper body, 20% core, maybe 20% lower body. Exercises that I love:

    The Warm Up:

    The Main Set:
    The Money Lift:
    • Trap Bar Deadlift: Article and Video here http://www.stack.com/a/how-your-deadlift-max-will-make-you-faster  
    • First two weeks are 3 sets of 10 reps w/ bar only to get the form, then two weeks of 3 sets of 10 reps w/ light weight. 
    • Then starting 9/25 you can do 2x a week with good weight. 3 sets as:
    • #1, light weight to warm up @ 10 reps
    • #2 and #3, pick weight to get 3 to 5 reps max.
    • Goal is to get you up to lifting (1) your Body Weight and if possible, (2) 1.5x Body Weight.
    • Remember we really want you to no have to lower the weight as you lift more. Maybe do it on pads, or put yoga mats next to you so you can let go. Do not let go if you are only using dumbbells...OUCH! 
    Once you are through the marathon (fuel those long runs!!!) we can talk about recovery, and the bike work...let me know what you think!
  • All looks good, but I don't think my cheapy community gym has the trap bar. :(   In fact, all the weights other than hand weights are machines if I recall.  Guessing I can attempt doing this with hand weights to some extent? Any alternate machine work (yeah I know, probably not) I could try?  And thank you, as I don't have a guy for weights, I have a gal for nutrition!  

    So, yes, I will be recovering with the proper protein and carbs.  She has also tailored my meal plan around when I work out as well aka hardly any carbs at night lol.  I gave her access to my TP account as I had the balanced plan already loaded in for that. I have the basics in there with swimming on Monday and Friday.  I will send her an update to see how the days change if at all.  

    As for trails, the Saturday runs are all for distance, so since I'm a lot slower on trail I may do the tempo workouts there instead.  I am all in for extra run time too.  The knee is feeling good so far and if I keep stuff zone 1 like prescribed I have been fine.  I dropped into the plan last week and  went from 4 to 29.5 miles!  My HR was very high for paces,  but I guess someone lost fitness chasing a lobster goal. :smiley:

    Recover hard from your great race in MT....we will be cheering come October!
  • @Trish Marshall -   Already zipping along I can see! I love it.

    If you cannot fashion a trap bar out of the recognition of one of your many vehicles, then using dumbbells is fine. I would make sure they were sitting on an aerobic step, ideally to stacked up on either side, so that you don't have to bend over to the floor. We don't need you going all the way Down. 

     Do your best to mimic the movement by, after warming up, grabbing the weeds and standing up fast and down quickly. Do not go down slowly. 

    Thanks for all the support and the chicken in another week to see how you're doing. If that knee starts to bark at you in a few days, as it might, just dial it back to some shorter sessions so it can process the load.
  • Damn, just picked up my car yesterday.  Could have asked for the front bumper to fashion a trap bar lol.  

    I do have steps I can do the lift with.  I've got a long ways to go.  Just picking up 40b dumbbells in each hand was um, challenging.  I'll start smart and get there eventually and have will do as advised above!  I'll check in next week. 
  • @Trish Marshall - perfect....baby steps. Remember you have those really long legs too and that could be something to get used to when lifting.
  • Hey boss.  Just checking in.  Been *mostly* doing the work.  My HR is still very high for paces outdoors.  Like, the 16 miler on 9/7 was not gonna see any TH miles at the end.  No way. My HR was low 160's the last couple miles and went to 167 in the final mile where I pushed a wee bit.  So, I have been adjusting the long run.  Last weekend (12 miles) was all z1 with walks.  Hot.  With the boys.  Was a therapy run for all three of us and it was just the right choice to stick together.  

    The big rub for me are my paces and HR.  When I run indoors on my treadmill my HR is about 10 beats lower for TH work and most paces vs. outdoors.  The 16 miler was very cool.  Like, perfect running weather.  HR was still up there.  I am trying very hard to be patient, adjust wo's (been splitting some TH miles into .5's like last week in the heat again!) and not caring or looking in the rear view mirror.  But I care.  And keep looking damn it.  ;) 

    So, yeah.  Just wanted to let you know I'm doing ok.  I'mnot hitting all the zones as prescribed for the runs, but getting the time and more mileage than I have in quite some time and plugging along.  I have no nagging knee or anything major so that is a bonus.  The lean up plan is going slowly and ok.  Trying to be very patient here as well.  

    And FYI, I see a PAVEMENT ENDS sign on my 10k  loop from home and unless I'm already doing a TH repeat, it makes me smile.  Every time. #gravelfun  :D

  • @Trish Marshall -  thank you for the update! The only thing I can think of regarding your heart rate and the difference experience indoors this is outdoors is how you run.

    Remember on the treadmill it's moving and you were just staying on top of it. Outside you need to push against the ground to move yourself. So your heart rate is, by definition, lower on the treadmill because you're technically doing less work.

     Assuming that your body composition is in a good place, it's possible that you're having some resistance due to flexibility issues or weakness in key run muscles like your glutes.

    If you aren't already, it might be worthwhile doing a little pre-minute warm-up before your next run and see if there's a difference: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YdenOdoz-MI
    have you made any dietary changes that was your higher heart rate? Like more caffeine?

    Regardless of the heart rate, I'm happy to see that you're still slogging along. The consistency and keeping you healthy will pay off big time in the future. Give the boys a shout out for me
  • edited November 8, 2017 12:07AM
    Hey boss, 

    Just checking in.  The foot is still meh.  

    I've been doing MAF hr spinning on the bike for 90' every other day, a little weight work, some pool running (oh yeah, I'm THAT chick in the deep end) which is harder than it looks lol, some core stuff, myrtles and did my first hike yesterday. Basically on week five of no running.  It was a 4 mile hike with 450 ft of gain and I had a little pain.  Just enough to know its not gone completely.  Woke up this am and it was a tad worse.  Kinda bummed as I had hoped to be hiking a lot more to get leg strength for when I CAN run.  Will go back to the pool this week before we head to Cali for a longish vaca.  Maybe some swimming and hiking there, but who knows. 

    In other news, I'm trying to zone in on the ketosis way of eating.  I've really been struggling with sugar and my weight, my nutritionist plan wasn't really working (aka I could not get into all the details of timing and macros-too overwhelming?) so I started researching LCHF.  I figured I am not able to exercise hard now anyways so why not explore.  I've lost some water weight and am feeling ok during the adjustment period and trying to learn as much as I can. I CAN say, I am already more invested mentally than I was in the nutritionist plan.  Don't know if its the lack of stress in training or simplicity of macros, but so far I'm enjoying learning and playing with my food. :D Being sugar free aint gonna be easy come the holidays, but whatever.  Gonna give it a whirl.  

    Can I say too, that I am quite impressed that you managed to cram another IM in your season while adhering to your family promise for 18? Masterful. I need these skills. ;)
  • @Trish Marshall -  super annoying thing about bone bruise is is that the older you get the longer they stick around. I don’t know if you’re taking any homeopathic supplements, but there are quite a few that repute to help with bones. There’s one out there known as “bone knit“ that I use when I cracked my hip.  Can’t hurt to check that out.

    I know it sucks not to run right now, but just take a look at your coach. I have spent the better part of the last 18 months not running and it didn’t stop me. I know you will be back. The team knows you will be back. You know, despite how you feel, that you will be back! 

     And now it’s more about what you’re going to do with this time that you have. I like the nutritional focus for sure. That approach may not necessarily be sustainable when you get active again, but figuring out the key to unlocking what makes your body happy and healthy is always worthwhile. And as you said, without the burden of training right now you have more flexibility… So go for it!

    PS – yes, you saw how I managed to sneak that race in and still keep everybody happy! Bonus points that I qualified for Kona again and now everybody is really happy that we’re going to Hawaii next year. :D
  • Just ordered up some bone knit.  Wish I'd known about it earlier!  I will start it when I get home next week.  Yeah, not running sucks.  No one likes to be on a diet, even a running diet!  I just need to be smart, and not impatient.  Racing KY is helpful in the patience department.  I hope I can start running again come December to get ramped up for OS.  If not, I will do what I can till I can.  

    Now we are off to a hell car ride (LA traffic is STUPID!) to get to see Jimmy Kimmel!  Wish me luck! 
  •  Somehow in retrospect this will all make sense. Take your time, and do it right. It’s all about taking it one day at a time, especially things like this that suck! Onwards! 
  • Happy 2018 to my favorite Irishman (besides my son)! Lots of crazy (as usual!!!) in my life but some is good crazy!  We bought a tiny place in the sun on kind of the spur of the moment (long story!) and have been busy beavers setting it up for habitation.  READ:husband will not divorce me and move to Cali now that he has digs for the winter, and I will be going back and forth quite a bit during OS.  

    So, when in St. Pete I will be riding my old trusty tri bike (already in residence!) on the Pinellas Trail which I have yet to see, but I know is about 38 miles end to end.  I have a former training partner 25' away and hope she can give me places to ride to do the wo's as best as can be,considering.  While home, I'll be on zwift and/or trainer road and the treadmill.  I already know that I'll be in FL for test week thru that Thursday (most likely).  I was planning on juggling the schedule to do the bike test when home on my trainer that weekend.  I feel like that would be most accurate vs. trying to test outdoors in unfamiliar territory.  Would love your thoughts on how to arrange that week considering I'm most likely flying Thursday or Saturday.  

    My run (December only) and bike have been all z1 and sporadic.  I am swagging my ftp (It is soooo low!  But I rather enjoyed going hard yesterday for the first time in forevah!) and vdot.  My legs seem fine but the lungs (elevated hr) seems to be my limiter at the moment.  I have put myself in the run focus OS, but you know me...I want it all.  Eventually. ;) If you think I should be bike focused vs run, let me know. 

    Also, is this where I give you my race schedule for the yearly plan?  If not, direct me please and thank you!  

    Excited to be "back" even at my current turtle speeds. It will come.  It WILL come.  IT WILL COME! :D

  • submitted the season plan today.  :)
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