clearly have been off-line for a while, as I dive into your Strava account and I see some incredible workouts! Nicely done.
starting early last year we started doing around the heart rate, and not by pace. It is much more effective tool attracting intensity in on you to run at the appropriate pace. This is true not only for out of transition but also across the entire run. You can learn more about that run execution strategy here: http://bit.ly/1MZIciR
Looking back on the trainoing I can see that all three of those runs are very steady. I love having built across the entire run, low to high straight line. You can ask for much better than that. I also see that you heard it is pretty consistently 135. Except for that one runway at our legs in a hurry was suppressed. So I went into your account and looked for some long rides and I found two of them:
#1 - June 30th bike to Berkshires… 130 for last hour. #2 - Friday July 8th, 130 AHR for last hour of 112.
In other words, there a great intersection between what you're doing at the end of the bike as well as what you do on the run. So this is how you going to race. will do normal smart right thing, finishing with your great ability in the 130 Average Pl. that final section of the climb back into placid. So come out of T1 and do your best to keep your heart rate at 132 you get to the run turn around. From there you can get to work and let the HR build up to 135 and even slightly above on the return trip. It will drop again on the way out and then it's your job to get back up there for the return. That approach will guarantee you will run the best possible price versus chasing a pace number. Does that make sense?
This way if it is hot, by following heart rate you will drop the pace accordingly to be able to sustain your effort all day.
Thanks P! Yes, I actually flagged the thread "defining a good race day run...." this morning to read up this weekend. Totally get it and totally makes sense. Knowing the LP course, completely understand the out being "easier" than the "back"
All makes sense and easy numbers for me to remember and lock in on... Thanks for the help see you in a couple of weeks!
thanks for the race saver bag, any difference between the one you lent me and the new one's your shipping? if so, we can work an exchange.
and thanks for the free pass out of the parking lot this AM!
Need to customize transition from LP to WI with a big bike day in the middle (Leadville MTB100)
Here is what I put together, wondering how off the reservation this is and how you would change?
Weeks beginning:
7/25 – 3 swims 2500-4500 yards, walk/ easy run if possible towards end of week, easy spin on bike weds or Thursday, Saturday bike to test what I have (50 miles roughly?)
8/1 – 3 swims again possibly right off the IM plan for WI? (week 15 roughly), longer runs with low intensity? Will be in Boulder for weekend of 8/6-7, thinking a 6hr ride on MTB, on road w P1 pedals at 65-70%IF, possible similar 3 hr ride on Sunday.
8/8 (Leadville race week) Monday swim if I can find a place, Run, drive to mountains(including drive to top of Mt Evans for Acclimatization), Tuesday, long high altitude hike for acclimatization. Weds/Thrs recon rides on LV course, Can be followed up with runs or swims. Friday rest, Saturday race. Note on race, I am treating this as a long as day in the saddle, basically a guided adventure ride, I won’t be “racing” Figure this would be the equal of a 175 mile road ride with 12k’ of climbing… Sunday recover/Travel day
8/15 (IMWI is 4 weeks from 8/14)
Thinking that legs will be trashy from long bike. Big swim week(14-15kyds), long run of 10-12 at MP, try to follow full plan structure, but keeping intensity low? could Legs handle an RR ride on Saturday 8/20?
8/22 Follow plan, doing 2x RRs on Fri/Sat whether plan has them scheduled or not…?
again, I lead with = "how off the reservation is this?!) remember I am returning to sea level with a big alternative altitude camp fitness behind me)
Scott, great race....can't wait to see the report and data.
I will still be shipping the new RS bags out...they are curing in my garage now...stay tuned....the new ones are better.
If you have any pictures of it or a testimonial, I'd love to see them!
Generally speaking Coach Rich is the season guy. I am happy to give you my two cents, but you are forewarned. Actually, let's not get too granular yet...
1. Your fitness is there and there's little extra work to do between now and Leadville / WI in terms of building. Only I see is time on the MTB (easily fixed between now and LV).
2. The run fatigue is the real killer...I honestly wouldn't run long until AFTER LV. By long I mean more than 1 hour....and there's no running this first week.
3. What are your goals for WI? What changes are you considering after LP?
As an FYI, I wrote and calendared that post PRE-LP. Clearly my Tri life has changed with that performance, and there were greater issues on the run than I alluded to. Possible nutritional issue and some cramping... discussing with Corediet people. That said there is a ST thread on the "heat" at LP and number of DNFs. That thread points to the number of early walkers, which even as a BOFOP athlete, I was consciously aware of. Saw some people that looked VERY fit walking ahead of me (before lap 2) and saw myself finish with people that looked much fitter than myself, but no faster than me on the run.
Goals - have a great fun day in Leadville, but not one that will have an effect on my IMWI performance. This is just a huge day in the saddle on that journey.
Body comp - have binged for a few days, time to get back on the wagon and keep it inline/ improve before WI.
Bike - Make sure I get enough big rides in to keep the volume up going into WI and not loosing too much, recognizing that there won't really be any performance gain
Run - trying to get moderate to high volume weeks in without injury between LV & WI to help ensure better run durability.
so, in one sentence, show up for IMWI without injuries, in at least the shape I was in for LP and mentally prepared to try to equal the performance I had in LP.
and more apros pos for the Micro Thread... curious what you think of this chart. Been following Rich Stanbaugh's Micro thread and wondering if I should be doing similarly RXd WKOs and where/ when we should stick them!
Scott...good to chat today...here are my notes for you!
Sami Inkinen link on the racing schedule…particularly Leadville. I am not saying you are going sub-9, but rather that given the work you’ve already done this year, smarter is better than just longer. http://bit.ly/2ail9SF
Riding Perspective for Weekends:
8/6 - IM Weekend = 6 hour ride into 2 x 3 hour tempo rides, with power in the z3 range for 25’ intervals with 5’ rest, etc.
8/13 Leadville — enjoy it!
8/20 - Another 2 x 3 hour ABP sessions, this time on tri bike.
8/27 - Your RR ride here, with a run. Sunday of that week OFF.
9/4 is taper weekend
Running / Body Comp:
Given your food goals, I’d rather you run for that vs run for better #IMWI #IMWisconsin fitness. Say we get you running frequently, like 30’ a day for 5 days the week of 8/1, then 40’ a day for 5 days the week of 8/8. You recover form Leadville with some swimming that week and back to the frequency — 50’ a day for 5 days (Tues to Sat). Then Week of 8/15 has two moderate long runs of 90’ each…say Tues / Thursday..other runs are 15 minutes that week. Then week of 8/22 you have one long run in the 2 hour range (no longer)…then it’s dial it down time.
Swim as much as you want…just keep up that good work!
How to hack vail nutrition?
See run frequency above. A short AM run of 30’ and a PM pre dinner run of 30-40 minutes will help keep the fires burning.
typo in the beginning that I can't decipher - "Sami Inkinen link" ???
Excellent stuff here! LOVE the idea of two short runs/day in vail to keep metabolism burning... Thanks again for the awesome support before/during/after LP!
Per instructions on modification to 8/27 above, 2 weekends before IM: Plan is now: ADV: Fri = 112/6, Sat = 85-100/6, Sun = 56-100. Thinking that I would do 112/6 on Friday and should I do 40-50 each of the other 2 days? perhaps do the 3 hr APB rides on those days? or maybe just Saturday? or maybe just do the 112 on Sat & a2-3 hr APB on Sunday?
Scott, good call to check in. I don't have any PMC charts in front of me, but after your year to LP and Leadville, my guess is that 112/6 then 3 hours Tempo (prob more 80% vs 85% is sufficient).
Your fatigue will be high so recovery between sessions is critical.
Checking in... Fatigue is very high.. I don't need a PMC to tell me it
did 5x25'@80% Saturday. Sunday went out for a pre-run in the HHH weather I am sure you were enjoying as well. Legs feel really trashed post leadville.
Sunday I went out on bike planning to do 1-2 25'@80% ended up doing a JRA ride of 1.5 hrs..
thoughts on upcoming week? Concern is getting one good week in before IMWI taper. I Know we are targeting a RR type of ride sat & a typical APB ride Sunday. My question is more what would you do as the lead up? a week 18 off the plan? or a week 17? I am a bit concerned on volume of run as I only have a 16 miler I did this week. I'd rather do a week 17 with the intention of getting (or trying to get) a solid 18-20 mile run in on Thursday.
Scott, it's time to think quality vs Quantity. Instead of "just" doing the LP + Wisco double, you included Leadville as well you monster.
Here's what I say.
+ Monday Swim + Tuesday Swim + Wednesday Spin it out in a 60 minute ride with a short run at TRP (2 miles). + Thursday = Long Run (by HR, not pace). You can do 18 if you swear to fuel it right and recover. + Friday = Swim only. + Saturday RR bike and run. + Sunday OFF.
It's hard when everyone else is putting up beastly numbers, but it's not worth trying to emulate them...they are all busy trying to be like you!!
ok, 18 miler done... not pretty at all, HR chart shows the # of walking interludes in the last 6 miles.. left leg had some pretty bad inner quad pain working. (the thing that I think has developed from nerve damage in the herniated disc injury last year)
I am guessing that doing a RR bike will hurt, but that the 2 week taper should actually get me back in shape?
OK P - IMWI is gonna be what it's gonna be... Starting to think about 2017 and I know people will read this, but the attempt at the KQ. I guess the 1st thing I have to do is get my head around the fact that I've done the work, put it together and can continue to climb the ladder into that zip code. I have to pinch myself realizing that we are having THIS conversation!
sooo to get there?
I am signed up for LP. As expounded in the race selection forum, I like hilly courses. A good place for smart people to work magic. OTH, there are the drag races and with the introduction of the highway in TX, that is a serious drag race.. .
Tim C got me thinking about TX, early season, work on the trainer (I'm fine w that, lots of stuff to binge watch and just got a kickr!) Thinking is probably 5 slots in my AG vs 3, many people can't race early season as they can't train indoors.. (I actually enjoy running w my headlamp early AM also in the cold). Negatives (for me) it's flat bike, potential for non wetsuit swim, adjusting to heat coming from NY
so the question is this(of many):
after IMWI, recover, build for NYC Mary... (run focus block) do 1-2 trainer sessions per week to maintain bike fitness, also starting 2x per week masters program a week after WI.
NYCM will take a couple of weeks of recovery to then roll into the NOS a little late. then build volume on that, then do a 12-16 week IM prep build...
vs
NYCM - trainer road block through the holidays, JOS w volume build for NC camp... and roll into LP prep..
for season planning, I am thinking TX & LP have a good 12-13 weeks between them (haven't counted yet) and then if needed, feeling i could.. KY is roughly 10 weeks after LP...
And i guess the obvious question... should I blow off NYCM?? it blows a hole in November... but it gives me a great run focus block...
Scott, great stuff here and in the other thread. I don't want to go too into details as its so early in the 2017 process and 2016 is still on like donkey kong.
1. I say not to the NYCM. I don't see the upside and if I told you to run a lot you just would. So you can do some runs with buddies but not worth it long haul regardless of OS start.
2. Best chances for first KQ happen on a well known course. Yes I went to TX and was fast, but I was already top 5 and KQing at LP. I basically owned that course and can still ride it almost blind folded. So I agree with Al T there.
3. I like TX as an early season stick (motivation) and test of fitness. If it doesn't workout, you won't be annihilated as you will after a similar effort at LP or hilly course.
Early outline is:
+ IM Moo...rip it up, RR, learn and write all that down. + Plan on two weeks off, HARD. You've earned it. Ice cream for breakfast is ok, etc. + Get into Masters 2x per week....make that just part of your reality. + Target Nov OS start on 10/31...so you can do full OS through 2/5, take a 1 to 2 week Swim Camp / break, and get in 10 to 9 weeks of IM prep to TX. + You need an early season volume pop on the bike...BRC helps a ton (just don't really run or swim that weekend) but you might want something in Jan / Feb...think on it. + After TX you'll want to plan on getting up to LP course a few weekends to just make it your own...
Big things...it's not about working too much harder intentionally, its keeping your trajectory which is, in and of itself, hard enough!!!!
Run durability and swim consistency will be key...more after IMWI!
all helpful thoughts - +IMTX is now 4/22 (week before BRC) I want to do BRC, but recognize will be in "recovery" Still want to go, ride easy, soak up the social aspect of the group and come up with a later camp(Al T CO Camp) for a volume pop to get me going hard on the LP cycle +I recognize where you came from in LP to TX... just thinking about climbing the ladder and rolling the KQ dice at another event spaced far enough ahead of LP with more slots due to the NA Championship aspect. (6 slots last year, and year before it rolled as deep as 7th when there were only 4 slots.. )
Scott...as you taper / plan to avoid eating at IMWI dinner...
+ Right, I forgot about the IMTX date change. It still works for you, and for BRC. And honestly, you would be fine at BRC except for the worst of the hills (we can work out a strategy for that).
+ I just want to be realistic in expectations re TX. And slots are good. The jury is still out on your best possible course (hilly like LP/WI/MT or super flat).
Have a great race, let me know if you have any other questions!!!
After hacking this out, the biggest issue for TX aside from it being flat & a possible non wetsuit swim is that I have ski plans for me and the kids all winter. This leads me to think of doing 2 hilly events next year, LP & WI... same as this year. I can always think about doing NC or a later season (FL, AZ or COZ) as well... But that's the thinking right now.
I have my IMWI recovery time for two weeks or so to change that, but I am thinking that I will just do the NYC Mary, JOS & move forward...
So, the Micro question.. what bike work would you have me do during the Mary build to maintain some bike form? I am looking at this from the perspective of watt maintenance along with cross training as a break from being a run-o-matic...
Scott, congrats on Wisco. Never easy, but I think you performed very well considering how epic your year has been!!! If you have lessons learned, let's capture those...
Yes to recovery, yes to NYC (for fun!) and then a nice active and fun weekend. I'd be okay with Mon - Fri OS stuff...then weekends as short runs + skiing or hard core skiing. Can't beat that agenda.
If you load the Balanced Marathon plan you will see some bike stuff there but you don't need a plan per se. Run it out, but I wouldn't run too long. I suggest a Sunday long ride MTB style to keep you loose and have it be fun...you can replace the week's interval work with some harder biking...but I'd rather you head to strava and search out some segments to improve your pacing on!
Works for me except the "for fun" part... not sure I can lay back and wouldn't mind the BQ with a Boston Race in '18...
We'll see how training goes.
Race selection Q for next year...
Thinking LP/ WI or LP/KY - obviously a longer break between LP & KY. That said, saw a number of people have great races in the LP / WI combo...
KY Advantages are:
+ Longer gap between the 2 races
+ Less opportunity for a hot & humid day
+ downhill swim compressing the time that the swimmers have to gain advantage on this non-swimmer
WI advantages are
+ shorter time frame to stay in the "focused training box" by ending season a month earlier
+ No autumn training blues from having to do long rides at a later hour (or start on trainer) on weekends due to daylight/ temperature issues
+ same issue as above for runs & swims in the dark
+ even though it's not a "focus" race, expect it will still have a strong EN vibe which makes the races more fun, more fun sometimes helps w execution..
as an FYI, I have done both courses..
love to have a phone chat about this if possible..
Scott, thanks for reaching out on this and happy to talk. There's no one right way, it's really a function of how well you can do on that timeline...and how well we prepare for it, etc. Things like "don't do Leadville before the second race" are low-hanging fruit.
Seriously though, I think that you will do well on either course. The short timeframe does mean you are limited with the work you can do (physically tough) but you avoid the temptation of more time (more training! more work! = mentally tougher).
Looking at IMWI 2016 results and IMKY 2015 results, your LP run / finish of 11:27 puts you at 17th in both races...IOW, at most recent glances they are equally competitive. My personal hedge is that you will do better at IMLOU...
Whichever you pick, we can make it work. But lets talk! My general EN schedule is here: http://meetme.so/patrickmccrann (Please remember to include your phone number.) If you need more windows, let me know!
P - thanks for the call a few weeks ago. Longer term conversation, with the debacle that coastal races have become this year, wondering if we should switch the target to IMKY from IMNC as my 2nd attempt in 2017. I think for now, I'll sign up for NC with the thought of tferring to KY.. Advantage is 2 week shorter season when there is less and less daylight to work with.
Still a longer term conversation, I am attracted to the idea of doing the PR 70.3 with team Mariah, that said, I am seeing this as interrupting the highest quality OS that I need to focus on the primary prize. I might just plan on going to IronFan that weekend and reduce the impact.
the Real point of THIS posting.
I am scheduled to run NYC Mary in 2.5 weeks. Pretty sure that is NOT happening:
Since IMWI I've:
+1 week - ran 18 miles "pacing" a friend who was doing his 200 mile ultra in Central Park, basically 3 separate "runs" of 6ish miles, at a net pace of 15+/mile, lots of walking was done on this. But I did feel it on lap three. Each lap was 1:45ish in time with a 15-30 minute break between them.
+2 weeks - Competed in a local OLY - ok swim, fastest bike in 50-54AG, held on for a 6th of 88 in AG
+3 weeks - went to Ironfan IMMD - went out to do a planned 16 mile run, quit after 12, struggled for the last 3.
+4 weeks - ran 14 miles in Rockefeller (pace is much lower than where I was 3 years ago when training there for the '13 NYCM)
+5 weeks - "ran" 17 miles this past weekend as a "test" for what I clearly don't have. did 8 miles too strong, 4 ish miles as a run/ walk, 2ish miles walk. FAIL
As a note, I've also did 2 strength training sessions a week for the last 2 weeks with a trainer, he clearly went to big with weights and while the concept is good (I read Heidi Ms micro this AM), this weight was too strong, particularly in trying to recover/ train for a mary..
So, that leaves me with the following moves going forward:
1-just roll into a pre-os run focused build, including my 2x a week masters, lighter weight training (moving to mostly body weight moves), run focus, 2x/week bike with some guys who ride the dirt/gravel roads around here with lights after work (some really strong riders and hard efforts in here on CX bikes) Current targeted OS start is Jan per coach R season plan
2-possibly load up the Mary plan for a Dec 10 attempt at the Tucson Mary w Cronk.
3-abandon mary attempt, do a pre-OS, start in Dec to be in a position for PR 70.3
4-go with Jan OS, but still abandon Mary attempt
yeah, lots of moving parts, thoughts? need for a conversation? thanks in advance! (did I forget anything?)
thanks for checking in! I agree that North Carolina is looking less and less positive as time goes on. So interesting to me that many of these new races are failures relative to the early races that they had picked. I don't think they had the foresight to pick the best possible locations early, but it's interesting that many of those plastic locations still remain good today. We will wait a little bit more to see what happens but the idea of pivoting is always out there.
Honestly, I think it's the best thing for you to take time off from the marathon. If you go back and look at all the events that you did this year and how well you did at them, at some point in time doing the marathon almost seems greedy. Your body is clearly telling you that it needs more rest. And I think it would be saying that even if you weren't doing weights etc. A good fall marathon after a beefy year is a very tall ask.
I love where you're at with your trainer now, and you are doing the strength work that is really going to pay dividends in six months. But we are back on that type of timeframe – small incremental steps that build to lead to peak performance. I don't see the advantage of going to Tucson for marathon in December other than hanging out with Tim.
I think your fall plan for weights, consistency, fund cycling on the bike is perfect. I can't think of a better way to get strong and to keep you focused. at some point we have to build into your plan options that stop you from overachieving, and I think this plan does just that. Popping out of the out season to do the 70.3 isn't the end of the world but we can discuss that in the future.
For right now I suggest you set some goals for this fall regarding consistency and frequency across your core disciplines (including strength). let's get those up on the whiteboard and knock them off across the next 8+ weeks with an eye towards the Holiday Run Challenge at the end of December.
Comments
clearly have been off-line for a while, as I dive into your Strava account and I see some incredible workouts! Nicely done.
starting early last year we started doing around the heart rate, and not by pace. It is much more effective tool attracting intensity in on you to run at the appropriate pace. This is true not only for out of transition but also across the entire run. You can learn more about that run execution strategy here: http://bit.ly/1MZIciR
Looking back on the trainoing I can see that all three of those runs are very steady. I love having built across the entire run, low to high straight line. You can ask for much better than that. I also see that you heard it is pretty consistently 135. Except for that one runway at our legs in a hurry was suppressed. So I went into your account and looked for some long rides and I found two of them:
#1 - June 30th bike to Berkshires… 130 for last hour.
#2 - Friday July 8th, 130 AHR for last hour of 112.
In other words, there a great intersection between what you're doing at the end of the bike as well as what you do on the run. So this is how you going to race. will do normal smart right thing, finishing with your great ability in the 130 Average Pl. that final section of the climb back into placid. So come out of T1 and do your best to keep your heart rate at 132 you get to the run turn around. From there you can get to work and let the HR build up to 135 and even slightly above on the return trip. It will drop again on the way out and then it's your job to get back up there for the return. That approach will guarantee you will run the best possible price versus chasing a pace number. Does that make sense?
This way if it is hot, by following heart rate you will drop the pace accordingly to be able to sustain your effort all day.
Yes, I actually flagged the thread "defining a good race day run...." this morning to read up this weekend. Totally get it and totally makes sense. Knowing the LP course, completely understand the out being "easier" than the "back"
All makes sense and easy numbers for me to remember and lock in on... Thanks for the help
see you in a couple of weeks!
thanks for the race saver bag, any difference between the one you lent me and the new one's your shipping? if so, we can work an exchange.
and thanks for the free pass out of the parking lot this AM!
Need to customize transition from LP to WI with a big bike day in the middle (Leadville MTB100)
Here is what I put together, wondering how off the reservation this is and how you would change?
Weeks beginning:
7/25 – 3 swims 2500-4500 yards, walk/ easy run if possible towards end of week, easy spin on bike weds or Thursday, Saturday bike to test what I have (50 miles roughly?)
8/1 – 3 swims again possibly right off the IM plan for WI? (week 15 roughly), longer runs with low intensity? Will be in Boulder for weekend of 8/6-7, thinking a 6hr ride on MTB, on road w P1 pedals at 65-70%IF, possible similar 3 hr ride on Sunday.
8/8 (Leadville race week) Monday swim if I can find a place, Run, drive to mountains(including drive to top of Mt Evans for Acclimatization), Tuesday, long high altitude hike for acclimatization. Weds/Thrs recon rides on LV course, Can be followed up with runs or swims. Friday rest, Saturday race. Note on race, I am treating this as a long as day in the saddle, basically a guided adventure ride, I won’t be “racing” Figure this would be the equal of a 175 mile road ride with 12k’ of climbing… Sunday recover/Travel day
8/15 (IMWI is 4 weeks from 8/14)
Thinking that legs will be trashy from long bike. Big swim week(14-15kyds), long run of 10-12 at MP, try to follow full plan structure, but keeping intensity low? could Legs handle an RR ride on Saturday 8/20?
8/22 Follow plan, doing 2x RRs on Fri/Sat whether plan has them scheduled or not…?
again, I lead with = "how off the reservation is this?!) remember I am returning to sea level with a big alternative altitude camp fitness behind me)
I will still be shipping the new RS bags out...they are curing in my garage now...stay tuned....the new ones are better.
If you have any pictures of it or a testimonial, I'd love to see them!
Generally speaking Coach Rich is the season guy. I am happy to give you my two cents, but you are forewarned. Actually, let's not get too granular yet...
1. Your fitness is there and there's little extra work to do between now and Leadville / WI in terms of building. Only I see is time on the MTB (easily fixed between now and LV).
2. The run fatigue is the real killer...I honestly wouldn't run long until AFTER LV. By long I mean more than 1 hour....and there's no running this first week.
3. What are your goals for WI? What changes are you considering after LP?
Give me some more info and we'll go from there!!
~ Coach P
As an FYI, I wrote and calendared that post PRE-LP. Clearly my Tri life has changed with that performance, and there were greater issues on the run than I alluded to. Possible nutritional issue and some cramping... discussing with Corediet people. That said there is a ST thread on the "heat" at LP and number of DNFs. That thread points to the number of early walkers, which even as a BOFOP athlete, I was consciously aware of. Saw some people that looked VERY fit walking ahead of me (before lap 2) and saw myself finish with people that looked much fitter than myself, but no faster than me on the run.
Goals - have a great fun day in Leadville, but not one that will have an effect on my IMWI performance. This is just a huge day in the saddle on that journey.
Body comp - have binged for a few days, time to get back on the wagon and keep it inline/ improve before WI.
Bike - Make sure I get enough big rides in to keep the volume up going into WI and not loosing too much, recognizing that there won't really be any performance gain
Run - trying to get moderate to high volume weeks in without injury between LV & WI to help ensure better run durability.
so, in one sentence, show up for IMWI without injuries, in at least the shape I was in for LP and mentally prepared to try to equal the performance I had in LP.
and more apros pos for the Micro Thread... curious what you think of this chart. Been following Rich Stanbaugh's Micro thread and wondering if I should be doing similarly RXd WKOs and where/ when we should stick them!
Scott...good to chat today...here are my notes for you!
Sami Inkinen link on the racing schedule…particularly Leadville. I am not saying you are going sub-9, but rather that given the work you’ve already done this year, smarter is better than just longer. http://bit.ly/2ail9SF
Riding Perspective for Weekends:
8/6 - IM Weekend = 6 hour ride into 2 x 3 hour tempo rides, with power in the z3 range for 25’ intervals with 5’ rest, etc.
8/13 Leadville — enjoy it!
8/20 - Another 2 x 3 hour ABP sessions, this time on tri bike.
8/27 - Your RR ride here, with a run. Sunday of that week OFF.
9/4 is taper weekend
Running / Body Comp:
Given your food goals, I’d rather you run for that vs run for better #IMWI #IMWisconsin fitness. Say we get you running frequently, like 30’ a day for 5 days the week of 8/1, then 40’ a day for 5 days the week of 8/8. You recover form Leadville with some swimming that week and back to the frequency — 50’ a day for 5 days (Tues to Sat). Then Week of 8/15 has two moderate long runs of 90’ each…say Tues / Thursday..other runs are 15 minutes that week. Then week of 8/22 you have one long run in the 2 hour range (no longer)…then it’s dial it down time.
Swim as much as you want…just keep up that good work!
How to hack vail nutrition?
See run frequency above. A short AM run of 30’ and a PM pre dinner run of 30-40 minutes will help keep the fires burning.
Excellent stuff here!
LOVE the idea of two short runs/day in vail to keep metabolism burning...
Thanks again for the awesome support before/during/after LP!
Plan is now: ADV: Fri = 112/6, Sat = 85-100/6, Sun = 56-100.
Thinking that I would do 112/6 on Friday and should I do 40-50 each of the other 2 days? perhaps do the 3 hr APB rides on those days? or maybe just Saturday? or maybe just do the 112 on Sat & a2-3 hr APB on Sunday?
Your fatigue will be high so recovery between sessions is critical.
did 5x25'@80% Saturday. Sunday went out for a pre-run in the HHH weather I am sure you were enjoying as well. Legs feel really trashed post leadville.
Sunday I went out on bike planning to do 1-2 25'@80% ended up doing a JRA ride of 1.5 hrs..
thoughts?thoughts on upcoming week? Concern is getting one good week in before IMWI taper. I Know we are targeting a RR type of ride sat & a typical APB ride Sunday. My question is more what would you do as the lead up? a week 18 off the plan? or a week 17? I am a bit concerned on volume of run as I only have a 16 miler I did this week. I'd rather do a week 17 with the intention of getting (or trying to get) a solid 18-20 mile run in on Thursday.
Here's what I say.
+ Monday Swim
+ Tuesday Swim
+ Wednesday Spin it out in a 60 minute ride with a short run at TRP (2 miles).
+ Thursday = Long Run (by HR, not pace). You can do 18 if you swear to fuel it right and recover.
+ Friday = Swim only.
+ Saturday RR bike and run.
+ Sunday OFF.
It's hard when everyone else is putting up beastly numbers, but it's not worth trying to emulate them...they are all busy trying to be like you!!
more swimming coming.. GREAT swim yesterday!
I am guessing that doing a RR bike will hurt, but that the 2 week taper should actually get me back in shape?
OK P - IMWI is gonna be what it's gonna be... Starting to think about 2017 and I know people will read this, but the attempt at the KQ. I guess the 1st thing I have to do is get my head around the fact that I've done the work, put it together and can continue to climb the ladder into that zip code. I have to pinch myself realizing that we are having THIS conversation!
sooo to get there?I am signed up for LP. As expounded in the race selection forum, I like hilly courses. A good place for smart people to work magic. OTH, there are the drag races and with the introduction of the highway in TX, that is a serious drag race.. .
Tim C got me thinking about TX, early season, work on the trainer (I'm fine w that, lots of stuff to binge watch and just got a kickr!) Thinking is probably 5 slots in my AG vs 3, many people can't race early season as they can't train indoors.. (I actually enjoy running w my headlamp early AM also in the cold). Negatives (for me) it's flat bike, potential for non wetsuit swim, adjusting to heat coming from NY
so the question is this(of many):
after IMWI, recover, build for NYC Mary... (run focus block) do 1-2 trainer sessions per week to maintain bike fitness, also starting 2x per week masters program a week after WI.
NYCM will take a couple of weeks of recovery to then roll into the NOS a little late. then build volume on that, then do a 12-16 week IM prep build...
vsNYCM - trainer road block through the holidays, JOS w volume build for NC camp... and roll into LP prep..
for season planning, I am thinking TX & LP have a good 12-13 weeks between them (haven't counted yet) and then if needed, feeling i could.. KY is roughly 10 weeks after LP...And i guess the obvious question... should I blow off NYCM?? it blows a hole in November... but it gives me a great run focus block...
btw, some groupthink on this here
http://members.endurancenation.us/Forums/tabid/57/aft/21447/Default.aspx#231453
1. I say not to the NYCM. I don't see the upside and if I told you to run a lot you just would. So you can do some runs with buddies but not worth it long haul regardless of OS start.
2. Best chances for first KQ happen on a well known course. Yes I went to TX and was fast, but I was already top 5 and KQing at LP. I basically owned that course and can still ride it almost blind folded. So I agree with Al T there.
3. I like TX as an early season stick (motivation) and test of fitness. If it doesn't workout, you won't be annihilated as you will after a similar effort at LP or hilly course.
Early outline is:
+ IM Moo...rip it up, RR, learn and write all that down.
+ Plan on two weeks off, HARD. You've earned it. Ice cream for breakfast is ok, etc.
+ Get into Masters 2x per week....make that just part of your reality.
+ Target Nov OS start on 10/31...so you can do full OS through 2/5, take a 1 to 2 week Swim Camp / break, and get in 10 to 9 weeks of IM prep to TX.
+ You need an early season volume pop on the bike...BRC helps a ton (just don't really run or swim that weekend) but you might want something in Jan / Feb...think on it.
+ After TX you'll want to plan on getting up to LP course a few weekends to just make it your own...
Big things...it's not about working too much harder intentionally, its keeping your trajectory which is, in and of itself, hard enough!!!!
Run durability and swim consistency will be key...more after IMWI!
thoughts -
+IMTX is now 4/22 (week before BRC) I want to do BRC, but recognize will be in "recovery" Still want to go, ride easy, soak up the social aspect of the group and come up with a later camp(Al T CO Camp) for a volume pop to get me going hard on the LP cycle
+I recognize where you came from in LP to TX... just thinking about climbing the ladder and rolling the KQ dice at another event spaced far enough ahead of LP with more slots due to the NA Championship aspect. (6 slots last year, and year before it rolled as deep as 7th when there were only 4 slots.. )
+ Right, I forgot about the IMTX date change. It still works for you, and for BRC. And honestly, you would be fine at BRC except for the worst of the hills (we can work out a strategy for that).
+ I just want to be realistic in expectations re TX. And slots are good. The jury is still out on your best possible course (hilly like LP/WI/MT or super flat).
Have a great race, let me know if you have any other questions!!!
~ Coach P
After hacking this out, the biggest issue for TX aside from it being flat & a possible non wetsuit swim is that I have ski plans for me and the kids all winter. This leads me to think of doing 2 hilly events next year, LP & WI... same as this year. I can always think about doing NC or a later season (FL, AZ or COZ) as well... But that's the thinking right now.
I have my IMWI recovery time for two weeks or so to change that, but I am thinking that I will just do the NYC Mary, JOS & move forward...
So, the Micro question.. what bike work would you have me do during the Mary build to maintain some bike form? I am looking at this from the perspective of watt maintenance along with cross training as a break from being a run-o-matic...Yes to recovery, yes to NYC (for fun!) and then a nice active and fun weekend. I'd be okay with Mon - Fri OS stuff...then weekends as short runs + skiing or hard core skiing. Can't beat that agenda.
If you load the Balanced Marathon plan you will see some bike stuff there but you don't need a plan per se. Run it out, but I wouldn't run too long. I suggest a Sunday long ride MTB style to keep you loose and have it be fun...you can replace the week's interval work with some harder biking...but I'd rather you head to strava and search out some segments to improve your pacing on!
Let me know what you think!
~ Patrick
Works for me except the "for fun" part... not sure I can lay back and wouldn't mind the BQ with a Boston Race in '18...
We'll see how training goes.
Race selection Q for next year...
Thinking LP/ WI or LP/KY - obviously a longer break between LP & KY. That said, saw a number of people have great races in the LP / WI combo...
KY Advantages are:
+ Longer gap between the 2 races
+ Less opportunity for a hot & humid day
+ downhill swim compressing the time that the swimmers have to gain advantage on this non-swimmer
WI advantages are
+ shorter time frame to stay in the "focused training box" by ending season a month earlier
+ No autumn training blues from having to do long rides at a later hour (or start on trainer) on weekends due to daylight/ temperature issues
+ same issue as above for runs & swims in the dark
+ even though it's not a "focus" race, expect it will still have a strong EN vibe which makes the races more fun, more fun sometimes helps w execution..
as an FYI, I have done both courses..
love to have a phone chat about this if possible..
Seriously though, I think that you will do well on either course. The short timeframe does mean you are limited with the work you can do (physically tough) but you avoid the temptation of more time (more training! more work! = mentally tougher).
Looking at IMWI 2016 results and IMKY 2015 results, your LP run / finish of 11:27 puts you at 17th in both races...IOW, at most recent glances they are equally competitive. My personal hedge is that you will do better at IMLOU...
Whichever you pick, we can make it work. But lets talk! My general EN schedule is here: http://meetme.so/patrickmccrann (Please remember to include your phone number.) If you need more windows, let me know!
P - thanks for the call a few weeks ago. Longer term conversation, with the debacle that coastal races have become this year, wondering if we should switch the target to IMKY from IMNC as my 2nd attempt in 2017. I think for now, I'll sign up for NC with the thought of tferring to KY.. Advantage is 2 week shorter season when there is less and less daylight to work with.
Still a longer term conversation, I am attracted to the idea of doing the PR 70.3 with team Mariah, that said, I am seeing this as interrupting the highest quality OS that I need to focus on the primary prize. I might just plan on going to IronFan that weekend and reduce the impact.the Real point of THIS posting.
I am scheduled to run NYC Mary in 2.5 weeks. Pretty sure that is NOT happening:
Since IMWI I've:
+1 week - ran 18 miles "pacing" a friend who was doing his 200 mile ultra in Central Park, basically 3 separate "runs" of 6ish miles, at a net pace of 15+/mile, lots of walking was done on this. But I did feel it on lap three. Each lap was 1:45ish in time with a 15-30 minute break between them.
+2 weeks - Competed in a local OLY - ok swim, fastest bike in 50-54AG, held on for a 6th of 88 in AG
+3 weeks - went to Ironfan IMMD - went out to do a planned 16 mile run, quit after 12, struggled for the last 3.
+4 weeks - ran 14 miles in Rockefeller (pace is much lower than where I was 3 years ago when training there for the '13 NYCM)
+5 weeks - "ran" 17 miles this past weekend as a "test" for what I clearly don't have. did 8 miles too strong, 4 ish miles as a run/ walk, 2ish miles walk. FAIL
As a note, I've also did 2 strength training sessions a week for the last 2 weeks with a trainer, he clearly went to big with weights and while the concept is good (I read Heidi Ms micro this AM), this weight was too strong, particularly in trying to recover/ train for a mary..
So, that leaves me with the following moves going forward:
1-just roll into a pre-os run focused build, including my 2x a week masters, lighter weight training (moving to mostly body weight moves), run focus, 2x/week bike with some guys who ride the dirt/gravel roads around here with lights after work (some really strong riders and hard efforts in here on CX bikes) Current targeted OS start is Jan per coach R season plan
2-possibly load up the Mary plan for a Dec 10 attempt at the Tucson Mary w Cronk.
3-abandon mary attempt, do a pre-OS, start in Dec to be in a position for PR 70.3
4-go with Jan OS, but still abandon Mary attempt
yeah, lots of moving parts, thoughts? need for a conversation? thanks in advance! (did I forget anything?)
thanks for checking in! I agree that North Carolina is looking less and less positive as time goes on. So interesting to me that many of these new races are failures relative to the early races that they had picked. I don't think they had the foresight to pick the best possible locations early, but it's interesting that many of those plastic locations still remain good today. We will wait a little bit more to see what happens but the idea of pivoting is always out there.
Honestly, I think it's the best thing for you to take time off from the marathon. If you go back and look at all the events that you did this year and how well you did at them, at some point in time doing the marathon almost seems greedy. Your body is clearly telling you that it needs more rest. And I think it would be saying that even if you weren't doing weights etc. A good fall marathon after a beefy year is a very tall ask.
I love where you're at with your trainer now, and you are doing the strength work that is really going to pay dividends in six months. But we are back on that type of timeframe – small incremental steps that build to lead to peak performance. I don't see the advantage of going to Tucson for marathon in December other than hanging out with Tim.
I think your fall plan for weights, consistency, fund cycling on the bike is perfect. I can't think of a better way to get strong and to keep you focused. at some point we have to build into your plan options that stop you from overachieving, and I think this plan does just that. Popping out of the out season to do the 70.3 isn't the end of the world but we can discuss that in the future.
For right now I suggest you set some goals for this fall regarding consistency and frequency across your core disciplines (including strength). let's get those up on the whiteboard and knock them off across the next 8+ weeks with an eye towards the Holiday Run Challenge at the end of December.
How does that sound?
~ Coach P