I seem to remember the constant reminder to "check the forums"
Alter G - Geez, where do I find one? "electrical time" - assuming you mean electrical stim? does the device out there do a good job vs going to PT? EG, i can hook it up and do at my desk?
@Scott Dinhofer - I am not sure you can find an alter G. We might just turn off of the Google search in your area or reach out to a Road Runner’s club. They’re pretty expensive machines but the decent physical therapist places seem to have them.
Do you have any updates/details from your journey?
so, interestingly, Alter G has a map on their website with pins for every place that has one of their machines. click on a pin and get the details. There is a PT place halfway between my home & office with one, and I just got a PT RX from the doc.
Update - got the cortisone shot on Tuesday. Wednesday... I ran! yes, ran! it was only 2.5 miles on a treddy, but it felt good! Right hammy is a bit tender still, so I am listening to my body and going ez... Weds - did the 2x15 Bike WKO, ran 2.5 miles later in day on treddy Thrs - did 2.5 miles on treddy, was planning on 3-4, but Lauren got back to school early from an away game... Fri - did 8x paul C Crush intervals, no time to run, on plane to secret Al Camp! Trying to do treddy runs of 2ish miles daily.
Only issue I've felt is that my right IT band felt a bit twingy this morning laying in bed.. weird.. got to get back to my disciplined every other day hip exercises and of course some of the 7 way hips!
That is great news! Remember, we don’t really know how your body is going to handle it and while you were paying attention to that signals on your hip that doesn’t mean there was nothing else going on. You are smart to continue listening to your body and keep the run short for now. 2 miles repeatedly for two weeks the day is perfect.
And of course, have a blast out there in the powder
OK, here we are an eternity from the last post in January. I've been doing PT for the hip. Have had moderate success. End of the day, I have a tendonitis that's been evident in my right Hammy for pretty much 2-4 years ongoing.. I also have some hot spots in my Piriformis. The result is that I am doing lots of "back of leg" strengthening. I've been trying to get a consistent run week going and last week was probably the first one. Ran 4x for a total of 18 miles. I am trying to run every day this week (except Monday) and run 2-6 miles per day. 6 would be a new high.
Sunday I ran in Vermont and when I started, for the first time, I felt like a runner again. Felt it again this AM.. During the JOS I've religiously done the workouts, with some Sunday APB group rides tossed in. My Swagged FTP is slightly higher than one year ago at this point. (252 vs 247)
Swimming - in theory getting on the VASA for the first time tomorrow.
Where this leaves me, Highly confident on my bike, though I will be sucking wind in Mallorca on the long rides. Confident that my swim will come back to exactly where it was, which is good. The run, We'll see. It will develop quickly, and I know from when i had the cardiac scare a few years ago, how quickly it can come back.
so, now i am fat and somewhat in shape. focusing on diet (hard to do when you are depressed about your body falling apart AND not running)
So, we've got Mallorca to kick start my season. I've got AL Camp & LP, I've got AmZof at the end of May. You and me, we've got work to do on planning the Hoff...
maybe instead of a reply to this thread now, I can buy you a private coffee on the island and we can hash out the thoughts and agree on how to get me from here to Kona! Yes, I wrote that.
I am pretty confident that it won't happen in LP, but you never know. I have a better certainty in saying, how do we structure a plan to make LP a big training day on the path to IMMT?
other note, I hit a mental slump after PR 70.3 last year. MY CTL on 4/4 was exactly where it is today... something to cheer about!
I agree that we should carve out some time in Mallorca (made it feels good to say that!) To talk about this in more detail in person.
How are bodies handle the training load is such an X factor and I understand how it can be very disconcerting. I say this to you as I walk around my house wearing an elastic band around my knees so I am constantly targeting my glutes at every opportunity. It is always an uphill battle, but I am confident that your fitness and focus will get you there. Just look at what I agree that we should carve out some time in Mallorca (made it feels good to say that!) To talk about this in more detail in person.
How our bodies handle the training load is such an X factor and I understand how it can be very disconcerting. I say this to you as I walk around my house wearing elastic band around my knees so I am constantly targeting my glutes at every opportunity.
It is always an uphill battle, but I am confident that your fitness and focus will get you there. Just look at what @“steve boer” was able to do in the last six months. I know that you will ramp up well, the real question is how can we review to be at your peak? I look forward to it.
Per discussion on Mallorca, Have scheduled a call with you for Thursday, just dropping this in for a agenda - 1-state of my recovery/hip issue 2-status of my run progress 3-starting swim from scratch from having taken 10 weeks off 4-status of my bike fitness 5-plan to get me to LP (only other event is AmZof on 5/21) (big training day in my eyes) 6-Denver - Aspen Camp Travel issues.
@Scott Dinhofer - sounds good and thanks for giving me family space at camp. Time to get back at it on your end..you've rested (smarter than your initial not resting plan) but now it's time to get back to work!!
Progress update and questions Run - didn't think it was coming along, but went back in Training Peaks (you have access) to update all my run subtitles with the pace/ mile and it's clear I've moved my runs from a cold start of 9min a mile, to an 8:15 - 8:35 range which is not far from where I was at this point last year. Working on building weekly run volume via daily runs of 2-6 miles, and hopefully when this weather breaks, split run days.
Hip - Edited to add this, the fact that it wasn't top of mind is a good thing. I guess I would say - I know it's there, but it's not getting worse and seems to be manageable. Ramp up in volume via small - medium doses should be revealing.
Swim - got the vasa start kinks worked out and am now doing 3x3000M / week. Now ready to start moving from sets that built my volume to some focused WKOs. Will be trying to get to pool 1x / week to work on stroke. Scheduling a swimlabs appointment to see if there is stroke work value to be had.
Bike - haven't gotten any huge volume since Mallorca, but solving for that on Memorial day weekend. This weekend we (Brad Marcus, Patrick Marsh and some others) have the AmZof. I've opted for the middle course as I just think that running 3x5 miles is going to be hard enough on me vs the long course runs of 5 + 15.
Body Comp - back on the wagon and focused, weight is coming off. Feel confident that I can show up at Al camp at my lightest ever at this point of the year.
THE question - I want to be a cool kid and jump on the Zwift racing bandwagon. I keep doing my FTP intervals and think that is the right answer for me. what will make my FTP stronger for IM racing purposes? Zwift or focused structured intervals. short answer here please + We Should discuss this in the car ride from DEN to Al Camp.
I like your progression on the run, and I like your strategy for the run. That’s the best way to go. Should you step over the line, it’s Easy for us to step back as needed. Anything in excess of what could be the problem.
I am a bigger fan of the steady swims. If you want to swing by the pool ool to put in a speed session there ok, but otherwise it was the Vasa for just that steady work and improving your cadence, especially at the end of those sets when things start to fade that upper body work will really help you with the body comp as well.
I’m not worried about your bike volume given what you have on the schedule. Your early-season work was a great investment. The key will be transitioning to a specific longer runs and still staying healthy as well as dialing in your nutrition plan while racing. We still have time to do that but that should be locked in after Al camp.
For me the Zwift racing is as much about the fun as it is about the effort. I think from an Iron Man specific build I would stick to your intervals. Actual racing is much better when you are far enough away from the big event or I have no volume expectations and other workouts. Like off-season time or early in the year. At least that’s a better time to start. More in the car!
@Coach Patrick - great riding and ragnaring in CO with you! will post run week results we discussed at end of week.
Race planning question - I am signed up for IMLP, IMMT & IMAZ (yes, three) Unexpected, but Ally wants me to drop her off at Case again this year and since she's greek, she has to be there a few days earlier than planned and now I conflict with IMMT...
thinking of a tfer... but to what? choices are - IMMD, IMChoo I've done neither, but I am thinking Choo... Moo is out as I have to Sherpa for Al at the SOS tri in NY that weekend. though I think that would have been fun with the crew going.
I think Chattanooga would be perfect. There’s no such thing as an easy race, but the swim there is very favorable and you are smart enough to ride that bike well. The key differentiator is Nutrition on that course as heat is the X factor.
The real kicker about that race is the run. You have to go into it with open eyes knowing that it’s going to be real challenging and that success there is determined by a good second Loop not a good first Loop.
I think your fitness will be in a good place by then, I just want to be honest with the change.
Bonus that you get another four weeks after Placid to recover and rebuild.
Man plans, God laughs Probably the best way to sum up this whole experience So here's where I sit:
2 broken vertebrae, Mine are attached structures like "transverses," as opposed to the actual Vertebrae, Al says that I still get to say that "I broke my back"
7 broken ribs
broken right scapula
there's definitely something going on I'm back of right hand that doesn't involve broken bone
Shockingly The bike only has a scratched up brake lever
I've had shockingly good headspace around this whole thing Which probably comes from the fact that I've lost 2 seasons in the past separately beyond my control. I also have seen Yourself, al truscott, tim cronk And many other great athletes on the team Come back From horrific crashes & go on to accomplish greatness.
my going forward
heal up - the next 7-10 days will be the most painful.
I expect to be on the trainer, at least doing EZ spins in 2-4 weeks.
spend August continuing to heal and strengthen where allowed,
September through December will involve designing a routine of overall body conditioning focused on body comp, strength training, upper hamstring strengthening and once allowed, building a run from zilch to 35 mpw by xmas
Enter the JOS in form never seen before, I have the side goal of doing some Ski-Mo races this winter, lean and strong is important.
here's the question, there is the negative of unforeseen issues in the recovery, particularly where my right shoulder is concerned. Assuming that things actually go smoothly(re-read Opening line of this post now), what IM courses should I be thinking about to do a focused build with the eyes on the KQ?
Thank you for the update. I have been following along I’m a text line and that picture of you getting into the ambulance says it all. Crazy. I guess you don’t do anything halfway do you? :-) I hope your recovery is speedy and his pain free as possible
As you noted, there is a Ton if real estate between now and next year. I like you’re in room goal of the January out season and division of the state you want to be in when you start. The best part about the outs season is that it is a starting point. Over the course of those 14 weeks he will build great fitness showing up healthy, fit, it is well-rounded as possible is the best thing.
Innoway, being able to take off time should allow a lot of other issues to resolve themselves like that hamstring. As you noted, physical therapy will be your new training plan. Done right, you could have incredible core strength and improve flexibility to go along with you arrested state. This could also be a great chance for you to get your diet in line and make some long-term changes that you can relentlessly focus on since you are in training. Continue to find the Silverlining in all the opportunities that exist given the situation.
I am hesitant to pick a fool for you this early, but I would encourage you to identify one or 2 70.3‘s. Assuming you start the out season in January you could do a half at the end of April early May just to get back in the game. I think a run streak would also be appropriate as you could easily start streaking even if your run speed‘s and distances are not impressive on paper. It’s all about creating those good habits. Please keep me posted and let me know what you are thinking about for a 70.3.
I'm flabbergasted by it. as for next season, I don't envision any 70.3s. Though I'll look. Could get swayed by AmZof or Quassy.
Focus is on quality & consistency of training, something I was really looking forward to in the next 4 weeks of what I had planned.
I could see getting sucked in for the Rattler Ultra run and being stupid enough to do the MTB the day before. Giving myself a week of living off the reservation before nailing down the good habits again..
I think something like the rattler would be perfect for you. Low-key, a good target, something you already have the skills and equipment for, and very social. Let’s pencil that one for sure.
My broader point is that we don’t have to come directly back to you and I are meant to be successful. There are probably some good intermediary Events and/or goals that will facilitate your long-term development.
If you recall correctly, when I came back From my most recent epic injury, I did my 40 miles on my 40th birthday challenge. It worked perfectly because I was so out of shape I couldn’t run fast enough to injure myself, but it helped me grow pretty quickly and lay the foundation for the next two years.
Saw doc today.. he's having me see a bunch of specialists, hand, spine, etc..
doc's view is once the rib pain is gone in a few weeks or so, no reason not to get back at the trainer.. so that's a good thing.. but even then he wants me to go very ez spin just to get the blood flowing.. Unfriggin believable how life changes in a moment, you go from fit in ironman prep to constant pain and cautious movement.
I can get through the days, but night time sucks, especially when you try to move in bed or even try to get up to pee. Last night I actually held it until morning and somehow fell back asleep so as to only deal with getting out of bed. SO much for my comment above about the next 7-10 days being the worst, I am 12 days out and this shizz keeps throwing new aches and pains at me.
Id like to be optimistic that i can start stoopid slow running in mid august. but then again, Man plans & G-d laughs!
I think your last bit sums it all up. The worst part about being injured is it’s a preview of what you’re very distant future will likely be. That said, your ability to plan and strive is what separates you from the masses. We set long-term goals so we could have interim steps. You can still have basic interim steps it’s just that you have a whole host of different problems to solve now. Wishing you speedy Healing!
Now in a place to write a reasonable update with a clearer path forward. Ribs are healing, slowly. My bones are healing, though the scapula break was pretty bad (see pic below 2 weeks ago). The rotator cuff is slightly torn, doesn't warrant surgery. So, it's heal up the bones and get to work as possible. Goal is that all of this rest is helping with my High Hamstring tendinitis issue, speaking of which, starting workouts on that this week.
Hoping that in a few weeks I can run again. I can Zwift, I can fast walk. Where I am is that I've been eating everything in sight, though I have had moments of discipline, that said the weight gain was high. August 1 is a line in the sand, getting back on a "plan." Plan to do a Zwift training plan that would involve biking only, unless there is one of your plans (tougher) that is bike focused where I can drop the runs and maybe toss in some extra bikes. I will introduce some active Zwift racing to get me motivated and August 1 is the line in the sand on diet. Though I am probably going to be more focused starting today, kinda disgusted with self.
I do best having a plan for an event.. so with that in mind.. help me pick my IM.. or IMs given where we are in the year, I could in theory target a 9/1 or 9/15 OS start date and roll into an IM Prep for Texas... never thought I'd say THAT. Not really what I want to do, but thought I should toss it out as an option.
The plan I'd like to do... Hard core pre OS training with a NOS start date. Roll into hard bike/ long run program with goal of doing the Rattler MTB AND ultra run 3/31. Then will do Al Camp, Camp Hoff, possibly BRC, look for HIM effort events in Vermont.
I think that I am a better athlete with the longer prep with the plan to show up at LP incredibly fit, I've defined what that is and what the body comp goal for Jan 1 is (147-150) with an IM race goal of 138-142.
so, choices Early solo OS with a plan to go to IMTX with a follow up at LP possible. or get fit, NOS, long prep to IMLP with rattler as a pre-cursor and can follow up with IM-Choo if needed (IMMT won't work with college dropoffs)
lots of permutations, perhaps we should do a call?
Here's a new update. We did a call based on the update above. Decided that I am doing a buildup to a NOS, goal of doing the Austin Rattler end of March.
Health update - most everything "feels" better except, ribs still hurt a bit. Shoulder can sometimes hurt and I further damaged my left shoulder (not hurt in THIS accident) when I used my left arm to throw a ball to Tucker.. 🐕️ 😮🐕️
In the last 6 weeks I;ve sputtered and finally gained some consistency. I am now training 5-6 days per week. Goal is to do 3x Bike, trying to engage in some Zwift racing. I did one MTB ride on Cat4 roads in VT. Probably not the best idea given the downhill on one was really a pretty crazy descent and a crash would have been catastrophic. Sticking to Zwift for now. I am focused on nutrition and lbs are slowly coming off. We've established a goal of 150-152 by xmas.
I am targeting a dirt fondo (42 mile Vermont Forest Fondo) at end of October, so that gives me a focus on both training and weight discipline.
Running I focused on building to 20MPW which is where I am now. I will try to pause here and run 20-25 over the next four weeks and Reintroduce speedwork. I did a few strides in one run last week and 4x 1.4mi Z4+ intervals another.
Bike - doing mostly Zwift workouts pulled from FTP builder plans and trying to mix in races when I am up early enough.
Swim - going to try some light Vasa this weekend.
Fitness Planning - THE goal is to show up at LP with a huge run foundation and a super strong bike. If i pull bike together it should be FTP=275-280 and a weight of 138-142. This should yield 4.25 - 4.4 w/kg. That's not enough, ideally i have a 5 hr power that represents .74 of that number in watts. Not sure of the Vdot Goal, I think 51-52 would be reaching, 51, should certainly be possible. I'd ideally be executing all runs at a sub 8min/mi pace by April/ May. Long runs at sub 8:10. Swim - going to rely on Vasa for fitness, but plan on going to a new local swimlabs and working on locking in new good technique habits.
EDIT - this was supposed to be a race selection thread to try and get a 70.3WC slot, but just realized there is ONE slot in each AG at the 70.3s. Having never raced one outside of PR when I wasn't ready, have no sense of whether I can fight for a top 2 slot. Thus the thread is now update info. Any guidance as to what you would alter from above over the next 60 days pre-OS would be appreciated.
@scott dinhofer - Great to hear from you and this is the Time of year to really be focused. "Where the work happens!" If you will. 😜
Here's the focus now:
4 weeks of 20mpw, 4 weeks at 24mpw, 4 weeks at 28mpw. I know that puts you into the OS but I don't care about the runs there...we continue "building" consistency.
FTP builder is fine, but so to is just riding. Not all rides need to be hard. The Fondo is a great option...you could just get out and explore trails and have fun. There's plenty of time to crush yourself later on!
I wouldn't worry about swimming YET. I think that you might want to stick with more of the PT exercises for a while. Better to make sure you are flexible and functional before we get worried about moving through the water. If I had to put a date on it, then I would call it early November.
hopefully @Coach Patrick is still answering questions before his surrogates take over for Kona Week.
I am rebuilding and have now achieved a place where I am running 20-22MPW for a month. I am now running every day, anywhere from 1.5 - 5.5 miles. Run Frequency Rules!
I am Zwifting Tuesday/Thursday/ Saturday. MY Zwifting has been mostly pulling up a good looking FTP focused workout from their library of 1 - 1.5 hrs good for 55-85 TSS. I have now ventured on some 2 hr outdoor rides on gravel roads in VT on MTB, working some insane hills pretty hard. I have also gotten in a couple of Zwift races, I need to schedule better and do more of those instead of the WKOs.
THE question.. how many days per week should I be trying to ride? what days? Thinking Tues/Thrs/Sat as focused training rides, Sunday can be an MTB, etc...
the goal is to continue a "pre-OS" buildup leading me to a NOV 1 OS start...(Please comment on OS timing as I think there is no NOV OS group this year? )
note that the NOV 1 timing is to have me done with OS by mid - late Feb when I can start building volume for the 3/31 Rattler events. Will schedule a call with you after Kona to discuss the long term approach to IMLP...
I need to come up with ideas for A/B weeks in the OS, B weeks to be inserted on weekends I will be skiing.
question @Coach Patrick - am I doing bike focused or run focused OS? we did not discuss. I am thinking that since I am going to be working on a run streak and running quite a bit no matter what, that I should do the bike focus to ensure I am not neglecting that work, especially given that there will be a number of weeks where I do SkiMo and just ski in place of some bikes.
THen again, I may be over thinking it and you as the designer of the plans and coach may have other thoughts?
I would go with the bike focus plan as your run is more about consistency than flash right now. Once you upgrade to coach EN we can get a little more fancy but for now the bike focus plan with a commitment to run frequency is the way to go!
Race selections question - As we discussed the primary objective is IMLP KQ attempt. EVERYTHING I do is framed in that statement. I've been doing good on diet, down 8 lbs from peak of post crash food pity party, Monday in concurrence with the start of the OS - is game on for dieting, so hard (is there any other way?)
sooo we need to pick my races, here's what's going on and my options, the question is if I really need a HIM to validate fitness or if we can do that simply by doing good tests.
Thanksgiving - 5k Turkey Trot, done it 2x before. have been 5th in AG, going in healthy, goal is to make this a truly valid run test and aim for the podium.. (80ish guys in my AG usually)
3/31 Rattler MTB 100k Saturday / run Sunday... we can discuss later, but need to do choose run, 10k/30k or 60k - pro is getting the big group vibe and a big goal on the calendar with big training weekend.
5/19 NY Gran Fondo - yes, I can ride these roads any time I want, it would be a serious effort with friends hammering the course. way more intense than riding this my normal ways.
5/31-6/6(Thrs) Al Camp & planning on doing Withrow's crazy ride, getting back for twins Pre-prom on Thursday (more on that below)
7/11-14 - small group weekend in LP doing final volume push 2 weeks before IMLP on course camp
so the question/ options - do we want an HIM to validate or practice racing before IMLP, ordering these in rank of ease to get to / do.
Options - Gran fondo weekend is also AmZof as well as the HarryMan that takes place in Bear Mtn park. The HarryMan often has a cancelled swim. it's a 30 min drive from my house.
Eagleman - I could drive down and arrive around 10:30 PM Friday night after twins Pre-prom. disadvantage is coming off of Al week, this will not be a great performance and create doubt in capabilities.
Patriot Half, 6/14; 6/15 is twins HS Graduation. Could do Patriot half and get back Saturday night for graduation Sunday
Other events - Not really looking to travel that far for a HIM, so that rules out all the IM Brand stuff. There are a fair number of sprint & OLY events I can pick that will fit in. So should we consider sticking one in and what's preferred? Sprint or OLY? I am sure you are familiar with the Pat Griskus series that operates out of Quassy amusement park, that's my likely locale. 1 hr from my house.
so... if we should discuss on a call, do rattler or something else?
if something else, what?
what's your view for me, of what racing I need to do before IMLP. Keep in mind that I did not race at all in 2017 due to the bike crash. Happy to have a call if you think we should discuss pros/ cons of stuff.
did a 2+ hr gravel ride last night with the guys. It was only a group of three. Felt sore from the first mile, they were hammering me on the 1+ mile road entry section. As soon as we hit the first hill, i was climbing stronger. Partially due to where my bottom gear is on the gravel bike. I also throughout the ride, hit the short hills 2-4' at a 280-350 effort, highest HRs I saw were hi 150s. I did try to make it harder on the hills and in fact was always passing the other two for the first 90+ minutes, one for sure is a stronger rider than me, both probably are.
so the question is how does this work for building fitness vs the RXd intervals I did this in place of?
I am planning on doing Thursday intervals. The sat/ sun rides, particularly the Cruise & Crush, appear that I could do a strong group ride while there is still decent weather and get the same training load. Agree/ disagree? precautions? prescriptions?
I like the overall vibe of what you have laid out. To be macro, it's a year of bike volume and run durability to get your mojo back. We can do "the work" in June / July to get sharp for LP, but we don't need to "hustle now" to do race specific work. Hope that makes sense. So...
Yes to Turkey trot.
Rattler I say the 30k. Enough to be legit but no so much that it could be a problem (building up for it or after).
Al Camp, yes!
Patriot Half - a total go. Great run test due to one loop run. Plus accessible and home in time = a win!
Hoff Camp, gonna be epic.
Placid Prep, we'll need to dial this in.
Between all your camps, I can't see how an OLY would fit in. I say no to that unless it's the ONLY race option you have pre LP. I'd rather see you get in a 13.1.
As or your training ride, it's perfect. That's a ton of TSS in a short time...like .84 IF. I am guessing you'll need a bit more recovery afterwards from a session like that. I would still do it as it's fun and outside and challenging; just dial back the next day's effort so you don't dig too much of a hole!
@Coach Patrick - yes a .84 IF on a FTP of 251. what FTP would you swag off of that? I am guessing that my indoor FTP is in the 235-240ish range.. more on that when I do FTP intervals on Tuesday if I don't do the gravel ride...
Comments
Alter G - Geez, where do I find one?
"electrical time" - assuming you mean electrical stim? does the device out there do a good job vs going to PT? EG, i can hook it up and do at my desk?
Do you have any updates/details from your journey?
Update -
got the cortisone shot on Tuesday. Wednesday... I ran! yes, ran! it was only 2.5 miles on a treddy, but it felt good! Right hammy is a bit tender still, so I am listening to my body and going ez...
Weds - did the 2x15 Bike WKO, ran 2.5 miles later in day on treddy
Thrs - did 2.5 miles on treddy, was planning on 3-4, but Lauren got back to school early from an away game...
Fri - did 8x paul C Crush intervals, no time to run, on plane to secret Al Camp! Trying to do treddy runs of 2ish miles daily.
Only issue I've felt is that my right IT band felt a bit twingy this morning laying in bed.. weird..
got to get back to my disciplined every other day hip exercises and of course some of the 7 way hips!
I've been doing PT for the hip. Have had moderate success. End of the day, I have a tendonitis that's been evident in my right Hammy for pretty much 2-4 years ongoing.. I also have some hot spots in my Piriformis. The result is that I am doing lots of "back of leg" strengthening. I've been trying to get a consistent run week going and last week was probably the first one. Ran 4x for a total of 18 miles. I am trying to run every day this week (except Monday) and run 2-6 miles per day. 6 would be a new high.
Sunday I ran in Vermont and when I started, for the first time, I felt like a runner again. Felt it again this AM..
During the JOS I've religiously done the workouts, with some Sunday APB group rides tossed in. My Swagged FTP is slightly higher than one year ago at this point. (252 vs 247)
Swimming - in theory getting on the VASA for the first time tomorrow.
Where this leaves me, Highly confident on my bike, though I will be sucking wind in Mallorca on the long rides. Confident that my swim will come back to exactly where it was, which is good. The run, We'll see. It will develop quickly, and I know from when i had the cardiac scare a few years ago, how quickly it can come back.
so, now i am fat and somewhat in shape. focusing on diet (hard to do when you are depressed about your body falling apart AND not running)
So, we've got Mallorca to kick start my season. I've got AL Camp & LP, I've got AmZof at the end of May. You and me, we've got work to do on planning the Hoff...
maybe instead of a reply to this thread now, I can buy you a private coffee on the island and we can hash out the thoughts and agree on how to get me from here to Kona! Yes, I wrote that.
I am pretty confident that it won't happen in LP, but you never know. I have a better certainty in saying, how do we structure a plan to make LP a big training day on the path to IMMT?
other note, I hit a mental slump after PR 70.3 last year. MY CTL on 4/4 was exactly where it is today... something to cheer about!
Let's talk, then we can get specific.
It is always an uphill battle, but I am confident that your fitness and focus will get you there. Just look at what @“steve boer” was able to do in the last six months. I know that you will ramp up well, the real question is how can we review to be at your peak? I look forward to it.
1-state of my recovery/hip issue
2-status of my run progress
3-starting swim from scratch from having taken 10 weeks off
4-status of my bike fitness
5-plan to get me to LP (only other event is AmZof on 5/21) (big training day in my eyes)
6-Denver - Aspen Camp Travel issues.
Run - didn't think it was coming along, but went back in Training Peaks (you have access) to update all my run subtitles with the pace/ mile and it's clear I've moved my runs from a cold start of 9min a mile, to an 8:15 - 8:35 range which is not far from where I was at this point last year. Working on building weekly run volume via daily runs of 2-6 miles, and hopefully when this weather breaks, split run days.
Hip - Edited to add this, the fact that it wasn't top of mind is a good thing. I guess I would say - I know it's there, but it's not getting worse and seems to be manageable. Ramp up in volume via small - medium doses should be revealing.
Swim - got the vasa start kinks worked out and am now doing 3x3000M / week. Now ready to start moving from sets that built my volume to some focused WKOs. Will be trying to get to pool 1x / week to work on stroke. Scheduling a swimlabs appointment to see if there is stroke work value to be had.
Bike - haven't gotten any huge volume since Mallorca, but solving for that on Memorial day weekend. This weekend we (Brad Marcus, Patrick Marsh and some others) have the AmZof. I've opted for the middle course as I just think that running 3x5 miles is going to be hard enough on me vs the long course runs of 5 + 15.
Body Comp - back on the wagon and focused, weight is coming off. Feel confident that I can show up at Al camp at my lightest ever at this point of the year.
THE question - I want to be a cool kid and jump on the Zwift racing bandwagon. I keep doing my FTP intervals and think that is the right answer for me. what will make my FTP stronger for IM racing purposes? Zwift or focused structured intervals. short answer here please + We Should discuss this in the car ride from DEN to Al Camp.
For me the Zwift racing is as much about the fun as it is about the effort. I think from an Iron Man specific build I would stick to your intervals. Actual racing is much better when you are far enough away from the big event or I have no volume expectations and other workouts. Like off-season time or early in the year. At least that’s a better time to start. More in the car!
"BBC = Ez?
"Studies" = ????
we need to work on your speech to text program!
will post run week results we discussed at end of week.
Race planning question -
I am signed up for IMLP, IMMT & IMAZ (yes, three)
Unexpected, but Ally wants me to drop her off at Case again this year and since she's greek, she has to be there a few days earlier than planned and now I conflict with IMMT...
thinking of a tfer... but to what?
choices are - IMMD, IMChoo
I've done neither, but I am thinking Choo...
Moo is out as I have to Sherpa for Al at the SOS tri in NY that weekend. though I think that would have been fun with the crew going.
what say you Yoda?
The real kicker about that race is the run. You have to go into it with open eyes knowing that it’s going to be real challenging and that success there is determined by a good second Loop not a good first Loop.
I think your fitness will be in a good place by then, I just want to be honest with the change.
Bonus that you get another four weeks after Placid to recover and rebuild.
Probably the best way to sum up this whole experience
So here's where I sit:
Shockingly The bike only has a scratched up brake lever
I've had shockingly good headspace around this whole thing Which probably comes from the fact that I've lost 2 seasons in the past separately beyond my control. I also have seen Yourself, al truscott, tim cronk And many other great athletes on the team Come back From horrific crashes & go on to accomplish greatness.
my going forward
- heal up - the next 7-10 days will be the most painful.
- I expect to be on the trainer, at least doing EZ spins in 2-4 weeks.
- spend August continuing to heal and strengthen where allowed,
- September through December will involve designing a routine of overall body conditioning focused on body comp, strength training, upper hamstring strengthening and once allowed, building a run from zilch to 35 mpw by xmas
Enter the JOS in form never seen before, I have the side goal of doing some Ski-Mo races this winter, lean and strong is important.here's the question, there is the negative of unforeseen issues in the recovery, particularly where my right shoulder is concerned. Assuming that things actually go smoothly(re-read Opening line of this post now), what IM courses should I be thinking about to do a focused build with the eyes on the KQ?
As you noted, there is a Ton if real estate between now and next year. I like you’re in room goal of the January out season and division of the state you want to be in when you start. The best part about the outs season is that it is a starting point. Over the course of those 14 weeks he will build great fitness showing up healthy, fit, it is well-rounded as possible is the best thing.
Focus is on quality & consistency of training, something I was really looking forward to in the next 4 weeks of what I had planned.
I could see getting sucked in for the Rattler Ultra run and being stupid enough to do the MTB the day before. Giving myself a week of living off the reservation before nailing down the good habits again..
Agree on the run streak as well..
doc's view is once the rib pain is gone in a few weeks or so, no reason not to get back at the trainer.. so that's a good thing.. but even then he wants me to go very ez spin just to get the blood flowing.. Unfriggin believable how life changes in a moment, you go from fit in ironman prep to constant pain and cautious movement.
I can get through the days, but night time sucks, especially when you try to move in bed or even try to get up to pee. Last night I actually held it until morning and somehow fell back asleep so as to only deal with getting out of bed. SO much for my comment above about the next 7-10 days being the worst, I am 12 days out and this shizz keeps throwing new aches and pains at me.
Id like to be optimistic that i can start stoopid slow running in mid august. but then again, Man plans & G-d laughs!
Ribs are healing, slowly. My bones are healing, though the scapula break was pretty bad (see pic below 2 weeks ago). The rotator cuff is slightly torn, doesn't warrant surgery. So, it's heal up the bones and get to work as possible. Goal is that all of this rest is helping with my High Hamstring tendinitis issue, speaking of which, starting workouts on that this week.
Hoping that in a few weeks I can run again. I can Zwift, I can fast walk. Where I am is that I've been eating everything in sight, though I have had moments of discipline, that said the weight gain was high. August 1 is a line in the sand, getting back on a "plan." Plan to do a Zwift training plan that would involve biking only, unless there is one of your plans (tougher) that is bike focused where I can drop the runs and maybe toss in some extra bikes. I will introduce some active Zwift racing to get me motivated and August 1 is the line in the sand on diet. Though I am probably going to be more focused starting today, kinda disgusted with self.
I do best having a plan for an event.. so with that in mind.. help me pick my IM.. or IMs
given where we are in the year, I could in theory target a 9/1 or 9/15 OS start date and roll into an IM Prep for Texas... never thought I'd say THAT. Not really what I want to do, but thought I should toss it out as an option.
The plan I'd like to do...
Hard core pre OS training with a NOS start date. Roll into hard bike/ long run program with goal of doing the Rattler MTB AND ultra run 3/31. Then will do Al Camp, Camp Hoff, possibly BRC, look for HIM effort events in Vermont.
I think that I am a better athlete with the longer prep with the plan to show up at LP incredibly fit, I've defined what that is and what the body comp goal for Jan 1 is (147-150) with an IM race goal of 138-142.
so, choices
Early solo OS with a plan to go to IMTX with a follow up at LP possible.
or
get fit, NOS, long prep to IMLP with rattler as a pre-cursor and can follow up with IM-Choo if needed (IMMT won't work with college dropoffs)
lots of permutations, perhaps we should do a call?
Here's a new update. We did a call based on the update above. Decided that I am doing a buildup to a NOS, goal of doing the Austin Rattler end of March.
Health update - most everything "feels" better except, ribs still hurt a bit. Shoulder can sometimes hurt and I further damaged my left shoulder (not hurt in THIS accident) when I used my left arm to throw a ball to Tucker.. 🐕️ 😮🐕️
In the last 6 weeks I;ve sputtered and finally gained some consistency. I am now training 5-6 days per week. Goal is to do 3x Bike, trying to engage in some Zwift racing. I did one MTB ride on Cat4 roads in VT. Probably not the best idea given the downhill on one was really a pretty crazy descent and a crash would have been catastrophic. Sticking to Zwift for now. I am focused on nutrition and lbs are slowly coming off. We've established a goal of 150-152 by xmas.
I am targeting a dirt fondo (42 mile Vermont Forest Fondo) at end of October, so that gives me a focus on both training and weight discipline.
Running I focused on building to 20MPW which is where I am now. I will try to pause here and run 20-25 over the next four weeks and Reintroduce speedwork. I did a few strides in one run last week and 4x 1.4mi Z4+ intervals another.
Bike - doing mostly Zwift workouts pulled from FTP builder plans and trying to mix in races when I am up early enough.
Swim - going to try some light Vasa this weekend.
Fitness Planning - THE goal is to show up at LP with a huge run foundation and a super strong bike. If i pull bike together it should be FTP=275-280 and a weight of 138-142. This should yield 4.25 - 4.4 w/kg. That's not enough, ideally i have a 5 hr power that represents .74 of that number in watts. Not sure of the Vdot Goal, I think 51-52 would be reaching, 51, should certainly be possible. I'd ideally be executing all runs at a sub 8min/mi pace by April/ May. Long runs at sub 8:10. Swim - going to rely on Vasa for fitness, but plan on going to a new local swimlabs and working on locking in new good technique habits.
EDIT - this was supposed to be a race selection thread to try and get a 70.3WC slot, but just realized there is ONE slot in each AG at the 70.3s. Having never raced one outside of PR when I wasn't ready, have no sense of whether I can fight for a top 2 slot. Thus the thread is now update info. Any guidance as to what you would alter from above over the next 60 days pre-OS would be appreciated.
@scott dinhofer - Great to hear from you and this is the Time of year to really be focused. "Where the work happens!" If you will. 😜
Here's the focus now:
Sounds good?
~ Coach P
hopefully @Coach Patrick is still answering questions before his surrogates take over for Kona Week.
I am rebuilding and have now achieved a place where I am running 20-22MPW for a month. I am now running every day, anywhere from 1.5 - 5.5 miles. Run Frequency Rules!
I am Zwifting Tuesday/Thursday/ Saturday. MY Zwifting has been mostly pulling up a good looking FTP focused workout from their library of 1 - 1.5 hrs good for 55-85 TSS. I have now ventured on some 2 hr outdoor rides on gravel roads in VT on MTB, working some insane hills pretty hard. I have also gotten in a couple of Zwift races, I need to schedule better and do more of those instead of the WKOs.
THE question.. how many days per week should I be trying to ride? what days? Thinking Tues/Thrs/Sat as focused training rides, Sunday can be an MTB, etc...
the goal is to continue a "pre-OS" buildup leading me to a NOV 1 OS start...(Please comment on OS timing as I think there is no NOV OS group this year? )
note that the NOV 1 timing is to have me done with OS by mid - late Feb when I can start building volume for the 3/31 Rattler events. Will schedule a call with you after Kona to discuss the long term approach to IMLP...
per our chat yesterday..
I need to come up with ideas for A/B weeks in the OS, B weeks to be inserted on weekends I will be skiing.
question @Coach Patrick - am I doing bike focused or run focused OS? we did not discuss. I am thinking that since I am going to be working on a run streak and running quite a bit no matter what, that I should do the bike focus to ensure I am not neglecting that work, especially given that there will be a number of weeks where I do SkiMo and just ski in place of some bikes.
THen again, I may be over thinking it and you as the designer of the plans and coach may have other thoughts?
I would go with the bike focus plan as your run is more about consistency than flash right now. Once you upgrade to coach EN we can get a little more fancy but for now the bike focus plan with a commitment to run frequency is the way to go!
Race selections question - As we discussed the primary objective is IMLP KQ attempt. EVERYTHING I do is framed in that statement. I've been doing good on diet, down 8 lbs from peak of post crash food pity party, Monday in concurrence with the start of the OS - is game on for dieting, so hard (is there any other way?)
sooo we need to pick my races, here's what's going on and my options, the question is if I really need a HIM to validate fitness or if we can do that simply by doing good tests.
Thanksgiving - 5k Turkey Trot, done it 2x before. have been 5th in AG, going in healthy, goal is to make this a truly valid run test and aim for the podium.. (80ish guys in my AG usually)
3/31 Rattler MTB 100k Saturday / run Sunday... we can discuss later, but need to do choose run, 10k/30k or 60k - pro is getting the big group vibe and a big goal on the calendar with big training weekend.
5/19 NY Gran Fondo - yes, I can ride these roads any time I want, it would be a serious effort with friends hammering the course. way more intense than riding this my normal ways.
5/31-6/6(Thrs) Al Camp & planning on doing Withrow's crazy ride, getting back for twins Pre-prom on Thursday (more on that below)
6/19-23 - Camp Hoff - Vermont - Six Gaps & Beyond!
7/11-14 - small group weekend in LP doing final volume push 2 weeks before IMLP on course camp
so the question/ options - do we want an HIM to validate or practice racing before IMLP, ordering these in rank of ease to get to / do.
Options - Gran fondo weekend is also AmZof as well as the HarryMan that takes place in Bear Mtn park. The HarryMan often has a cancelled swim. it's a 30 min drive from my house.
Eagleman - I could drive down and arrive around 10:30 PM Friday night after twins Pre-prom. disadvantage is coming off of Al week, this will not be a great performance and create doubt in capabilities.
Patriot Half, 6/14; 6/15 is twins HS Graduation. Could do Patriot half and get back Saturday night for graduation Sunday
Other events - Not really looking to travel that far for a HIM, so that rules out all the IM Brand stuff. There are a fair number of sprint & OLY events I can pick that will fit in. So should we consider sticking one in and what's preferred? Sprint or OLY? I am sure you are familiar with the Pat Griskus series that operates out of Quassy amusement park, that's my likely locale. 1 hr from my house.
so... if we should discuss on a call, do rattler or something else?
if something else, what?
what's your view for me, of what racing I need to do before IMLP. Keep in mind that I did not race at all in 2017 due to the bike crash. Happy to have a call if you think we should discuss pros/ cons of stuff.
separate from race planning above. @Coach Patrick
did a 2+ hr gravel ride last night with the guys. It was only a group of three. Felt sore from the first mile, they were hammering me on the 1+ mile road entry section. As soon as we hit the first hill, i was climbing stronger. Partially due to where my bottom gear is on the gravel bike. I also throughout the ride, hit the short hills 2-4' at a 280-350 effort, highest HRs I saw were hi 150s. I did try to make it harder on the hills and in fact was always passing the other two for the first 90+ minutes, one for sure is a stronger rider than me, both probably are.
so the question is how does this work for building fitness vs the RXd intervals I did this in place of?
I am planning on doing Thursday intervals. The sat/ sun rides, particularly the Cruise & Crush, appear that I could do a strong group ride while there is still decent weather and get the same training load. Agree/ disagree? precautions? prescriptions?
@scott dinhofer --
I like the overall vibe of what you have laid out. To be macro, it's a year of bike volume and run durability to get your mojo back. We can do "the work" in June / July to get sharp for LP, but we don't need to "hustle now" to do race specific work. Hope that makes sense. So...
Between all your camps, I can't see how an OLY would fit in. I say no to that unless it's the ONLY race option you have pre LP. I'd rather see you get in a 13.1.
As or your training ride, it's perfect. That's a ton of TSS in a short time...like .84 IF. I am guessing you'll need a bit more recovery afterwards from a session like that. I would still do it as it's fun and outside and challenging; just dial back the next day's effort so you don't dig too much of a hole!
~ Coach P
@Coach Patrick - yes a .84 IF on a FTP of 251. what FTP would you swag off of that? I am guessing that my indoor FTP is in the 235-240ish range.. more on that when I do FTP intervals on Tuesday if I don't do the gravel ride...