Well, you can't imagine it, but you did add much more.. I think your assessment of ability to run that soon after LP on a hard course creates an interesting dynamic. I have different reasons for wanting to choose each, I do need to choose one!
I think the issue on the back half of the run, was grit.. plain and simple, but that's another conversation
I modified the data tracker - can you have a look and modify columns as you see fit.
I am looking at the tracker and realize there is as much time between now & LV as there was between BRC & LP.. that's a very long stretch
now a bigger question if you have time to review power, I am trying to figure out how I went 2 mins slower while riding 20 watts more power than last year. We can say "there was wind on lap 2" and that accounted for a bit, but my lap one time was a minute off with 17 Watts higher NP. I am reviewing this with the PowerTap/Saris people as well. Bike was theoretically faster, ceramic speed upgrades, new tires, right pressure, full drivetrain clean and lube days before the race. Disc wheel vs 808 last year. Bike fit by todd last year, only change was a 2cm drop from last year to this year in cockpit. Giro Aerohead this year.
also, w/kG for some of the fast guys this year TC w/kg is 2.98 for a 5:32 vs. est of 5.46hrs PL w/kg is 2.71 for a 5:36 vs. est of 5.72hrs MR w/kg is 2.45 for a
5:45 vs. est of 5.99hrs SD w/kg is 2.72 for a
5:49 vs. est of 5.71hrs
1) The run fade...I don't think it was 100% a grit issue. Your AHR for the first 6 miles was supposed to be 130...but it was 135 (high) and on a downhill as well. I think you just got a bit hot early....tried to push both hills back in and after that you were pretty cooked. In fact, I think GRIT is what got you that run PR despite those early miles. Just one man's opinion....
2) More time isn't bad. It's more time to rest after what you did, and to get back into it. I support you no matter which you choose...less time might be better for your brain, but likely not for your legs.
3) Aside from a rubbing brake or a funky PM that had your FTP higher than it really was (all this year) then the only other option I can think of is you rode hard in all the wrong places? As in harder up (this year) vs last year, which only netted you a few seconds at a much greater cost? Ideally you are smoother up on higher watts and work harder down and "through" the next hill. I am thinking #2 with the PM as your TSS was 320 which is insanely high for that IF that you rode. No way the math is supposed to work out like that....or rather, no way you can run a 20' PR after earning 40 TSS points too many...
4) I updated the data sheet with my notes...hope they make sense!!!
1) The run fade...I don't think it was 100% a grit issue. Your AHR for the first 6 miles was supposed to be 130...but it was 135 (high) and on a downhill as well. I think you just got a bit hot early....tried to push both hills back in and after that you were pretty cooked. In fact, I think GRIT is what got you that run PR despite those early miles. Just one man's opinion....
well, that in a way is good to hear, meaning I am a better executor than I give self credit for! it may have been too much, but the goal was to take risks, maybe that was beyond the calculations.. we will have to talk more about specific execution before Louisville!
2) More time isn't bad. It's more time to rest after what you did, and to get back into it. I support you no matter which you choose...less time might be better for your brain, but likely not for your legs.
pulled the trigger on the Louisville entry this afternoon prior to reading this!
3) Aside from a rubbing brake or a funky PM that had your FTP higher than it really was (all this year) then the only other option I can think of is you rode hard in all the wrong places? As in harder up (this year) vs last year, which only netted you a few seconds at a much greater cost? Ideally you are smoother up on higher watts and work harder down and "through" the next hill. I am thinking #2 with the PM as your TSS was 320 which is insanely high for that IF that you rode. No way the math is supposed to work out like that....or rather, no way you can run a 20' PR after earning 40 TSS points too many...
there was a very slight rub of one of the P5 brake fairings.. I damn near broke my finger trying to clear what I thought was a stuck leaf. Not sure if that accounts for 17 watts, or the fact that my finger is still swollen! I am likely sending the Pedals back to Saris as soon as I get my hand on Brad Marcus's as they will test them for me and turn em back around in a week. the only thing that tells me that they weren't wrong for a while is that I've picked up a few KOMs after trying for over a year.. that's pure speed on a segment, right?
More thoughts on this - (not sure any response from you is required except maybe a "like" or agree" so I know you read it
there was a moment where "something went wrong with my PM" Berky camp, I rode up to Mass, 86 miles, mostly on roads I never rode on b4 and pulled 8 achievements including a 16' KOM. So while that weekend I came out with great power numbers, I had correlation with Strava pointy end to back it up. Plus Brad telling me I was much stronger than a year ago.
so the answer is until saris checks em out and I ride brad's, i have zero confidence in my P1 Pedals due to the power dropout they showed on those two days.. meantime, I just went out and did 4x8@75% and they felt fine, but again, sometimes I am riding really good power and I question if it's right...
@Scott Dinhofer - Lou baby! Going to be a blast. Only a bit more light stuff left now, so enjoy it.
I hate it when the PM goes bad. Then it's all self doubt afterwards. Let's hope they get dialed in. In the meantime ride Old Skool and do the hard work until it hurts.
Finally stepped away from the fridge and opened the tracker
through 8/27 you have me doing 2x 90' hard rides during the week. how would you structure a training week? thus far I've been doing... Mon/Tues/Fri - Swim & Run Weds - Hard bike, short run Thrs - Long Run Sat - Long Bike/ Short run Sun - 1.5-2hr APB B & 8-10 mi run Looks like i can roll into something similar post labor day after the big week? What's the two 90' hard ride look like to you? for the longer weekend ride? ok to do 3-5 hrs on the road bike with boyz? realize that's probalby not steady riding, but I tend to go steadier than the others.. (I attack on the flats & DH)
I am thinking for the 90' rides:
Ride 1 2x20 FTPish type of test I've been doing, followed by 20-30' of hill riding in the local area.
Ride 2 can make good local circuits, have one with a bunch of climbing that I used to use as a 1 hr TT, can make that longer.. (ok to do this one on road bike?)
surprised we are capping run volume at 40?
will ping you ahead of time, but doing a Snowmass camp with Al and a surprise EN pointy ender as my rabbit.. going to be focused on TT types of riding and not stoopid climbing.. 5 days... week of 9/17
@Scott Dinhofer - you haven't been that bad! I see you keep popping up with those work out alerts.
My bias after already training for in racing in the year is to shift the focus of little bit. So the emphasis point of these first few weeks should not be lots of volume on the bike. You just did that, and your body needs a change.
I like the ABP rides as a great counterpoint – it's hard enough to work but not so hard you can't achieve them.
I think your ride one and ride to options are perfect. And yes to the road bike for sure! When you ride with your buddies, the first couple weeks I want you sitting in the back almost exclusively. It's great to get miles and speed in without working 110%! For these early rides go easier but longer. Then you can start working harder efforts there and shorten the right time to like three hours.
I think heading to Snowmass is the perfect time to get back to some longer volume… I swear you will not lose anything if you aren't doing Iron Man long rides for the next six weeks!!!
As for the run, there is a certain point of diminishing returns. Sitting at 40 miles a week over extended period of time can be a super power in another itself… Keeping that fixed will allow you to adapt to the load and eventually put you in a place where we can push a little higher in those last few key weeks.
In both cases, continued nutritional excellence is key!!!
haven't put together a good week of training since LP. (4 weeks)
had a slight back issue 2 weeks ago, let it rest while tapering (from not much) to do the Lake George half mary (won my AG with a 1:36) so now I am recovering from THAT
tweaked back doing some weight machines day after the half, so that took me out of a good week after Lake George
got an ok week in last week
trying to get on focus THIS week.
Issue is that my legs just feel trashed. hammy's are tight, particularly right one which really bothered me in LP and during the 1/2. Feeling like my power isn't where it was. Run's definitely hurt though it is clear the speed is there. Hoping that just listening to my body and detuning wko's in response to how I feel would be enough.
I was planning on a big tri week next week since it's a holiday week. wanted to get your thoughts on that, thinking is that it would be volume vs intensity. Reminder that 2 or 3 weeks later I have a CO camp trip planned as well.
other considerations- local sprint (like 40 people total) that i might do for racing practice at end of next week local OLY (Westchester Tri) -1000+people; I'd like to really race this, basically the day after I get back from CO
Wanted to get your input on what I should do next week? follow "big tri week" plan? something else? should I reconsider the 2 races? EG, will they affect my training pre Louisville?
Also trying to get a day to come up and see Todd to check my bike fit, sent you an email about the lobster shack...
@Scott Dinhofer - thanks for the bump. I saw your email, you sort things out with Todd first then let me know what the timeframe is and I will make it work.
I am not surprised to hear about your legs especially the hamstrings. The rest you're taking is critical, so kudos to you for that. And your fitness is still high despite the discomfort, as evidence with your half marathon.
If you aren't already, I would find yourself in a RT professional who can beat you up twice a week for two weeks and then maybe once a week thereafter. This would be a good investment of your time and they can really get mobility back into those hamstrings.
I suggest you also take a good look at your watch set up. If you are sitting, time to start standing. No point in sitting down at the office as I think you spend enough time sitting in your race car. :-)
Also check out doing a pre-run dynamic warm-up to make sure the glutes are working so the hamstrings are overdoing it: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YdenOdoz-MI Finally I have one of those lacrosse balls I keep in my car that I will quite often put under my hamstring while driving in case I need some motivation.
I am all about you running consistently and putting in all the big volume you want. Road bike volume is OK and try bike when you get home. Drive by puts extra stress on the hamstrings which could be too much at this point. Feel free to also take your mountain bike out and just do an epic long ride on some easy trails.
I don't care so much about the long runs as your fitness clearly there. I want lots of short frequent runs at your target receipt for it. We do not want you to replicate that early mile mishap from Placid. There is no rolling of the dice and Louisville until the start of the second lap!
I promised myself to not address anything past Louisville until Monday 10/16 - but alas I must as travel arrangements to be made depending on answers.
With next season's focus on IMLP with AmZof Long course as my big tune up, what OS would you have me think about?
Also, I am thinking of a late season (Dec 3) Full Mary in Sacramento, its' flat & 350' net downhill, goal to BQ, is this too soon after IMKY? (7 weeks), I'd combine this with a business trip to SF for thrs/ fri before, so I'd be in the time zone for a few days.
Lastly, how soon does your phone consult time book up? Thinking we should have something scheduled for post LV, season Recap, laying the foundation for 2018, which will be a big year...
btw, crushed an OLY on Sunday, losing 1st place of 83 in my AG in the last 300 yards... See RR here
@Scott Dinhofer - giving you a big year, and the potential for a full marathon, I believe that a January I’ll season is best for you. We need to give you a little bit of downtime to stay fit but without pressure so your body can recover. Then we can ramp up into a year with Placid and all of those camps.
@Coach Patrick - OK - Louisville didn't go as planned - Race Report - at the end of the day, two years ago, I'd never have thought I'd write that I blew up in a race and still finished in the 10th%ile... That's not half bad.
I don't really think the overbiking was the culprit as much as perhaps the 7 weeks leading into the race were. I never felt right in those weeks.. seemed to be going from recovery to recovery.
curious on this. by the numbers, I overbiked the 1st 56 by 17 Watts NP and underbiked the 2nd 56 by 3watts, had I ridden target power for the full 112, what do you think the time differential would have been?
The bigger issues that I want to discuss, I scheduled a phone consult for next weds, but your times all seem to be at night, please let me know if we can move call to a daytime. thanks.
December Marathon - is this smart or not in context of setting up best possible OS & build for trying to really hit it in LP next year?: Thinking of the following from now through xmas
Running - I am planning on using the framework that Jeremy outlined in this thread
Biking - I will be doing a bunch of social riding in the next three months. Tuesday night gravel rides with my intense cycling buddies, weekend MTB rides, some road rides as conditions allow and of course the Sunday EN Zwift session
Swimming - ideally Vasa only 2x a week, this is at Jill's house, so I will problably do the pool 1x a week as well. Also commit to doing a 20 min cordz wko a few times a week
Strength Sessions - probably work with a biking buddy who is a trainer on full body conditioning focusing on core 2x / week. have to make sure he doesn't interfere with run training by beating me up too much.
Xmas - holiday run challenge rolling into JOS...
focus on getting body comp lower with the Hoff Holiday weight challenge beginning Nov 1
@Scott Dinhofer - Glad we could talk and thanks for all the info / perspective on what you think is next. Here's my feedback for you and we can go from there!
Kona is a Long Term Project: Body Comp + Execution -- IOW, we need to get your body comp down, and it's a lifestyle choice for getting and remaining healthy, not just an "8 weeks to race day so cut weight" kind of project. Goal: 140lb by April 2018
Bike Strength Remains Important: Get FTP up this OS using critical workouts, hard rides with buddies and Zwift Races. Participate in Sunday ABP rides, and 1x a month go long on the bike (4 to 5 hours steady, can be tri / road / mtb). FTP doesn't really fade so much until you are 60, but you need to keep working at it, there's no long term downtime.
Bike Endurance: Camps are good for the "pop" but you still need a good long ride at least 1x every 2 weeks.
How to Build 5-Hour Power: There are two options...you can do the "best last NP hour" idea from withrow; or you can do Paul Curtin's ABP+FTP rides from the weekend (think 3 hours of ABP work with short breaks, then some FTP work). Either way, you are riding pretty hard, and pushing that last hour!
Run Frequency: it rules...gotta keep it up, building to 35 mph by December in a comfortable way.
Racing: I like AmZo, #IMLP, and the next race is Wisco or Lou. The harder courses fit your racing style. When your FTP puts you in the 300 range (absolute watts not W/KG) then we can talk about a flat drag race scenario like FL, or AZ. I think you could be top ten at IMAZ for example but not top 3 right now. Maybe TX is an early 2019 race...
Swim Frequency: We just want to keep you in the 10,000 / week range...start up with 4,000, then 7,000...then by January have yourself in that 10k ish range to get used to the work!!!
other question - how can i be utilizing you/ this thread better than going to my WSM friends for advice... it's time to filter out the noise and get COACHED, by THE Coach Thinking I just make a note to self to:
post here every week or two with updates/ statuses
Here's your updated Season Plan, as promised. This is where you'll return to post all your "coach" questions as responses; I'll see them and reply. This first post is my best outline of how to proceed with your races, but you can ask any / all questions you want. So post away, know that I reply here usually M/W/F each week.
Power User Tip: Click the Star icon by the Title of this thread to subscribe, and you'll get email updates when I do reply.
Your Notes
Strong bike & Run than in the past Bike topped out at 4.0 w/kg. if i can get race weight to really happen, should be at 4.3 if I just lose weight, hoping for a few watts to get me up to 4.4. That would be an FTP of 280 vs this year's peak of 272. Concerned with lagging 5 hr power, which we will discuss on today's (10/25) call realize that EN elite plan may supercede all of this, but thought I should put it out there for you.
Your Races
04/17/18 - Mallorca Camp
05/20/18 - American Zofingen Long Course R5, B87, R15 (trail runs - hilly road bikes) this will be a big training day.
07/24/18 - Ironman Lake Placid
Season Update
These are your recommended training plans, including the date you should start each one (sometimes you won’t complete a full plan but transition to another one). You can change your plans on the Training Plan page by clicking the Move / Change button. Learn more about each plan on the Training Plan Central Page.
Last updated by Coach on 11/02/2017
On 10/30/2017 Load the -- Run Durability Plan 1 (9 months out) -- 4 weeks to end on 11/26/2017
On 11/27/2017 Load the -- Run Durability 2 (8 months out) -- 4 weeks to end on 12/24/2017
On 12/4/2017 Load the Advanced OutSeason Plan (Bike Focus), 14wks to end on 3/11/2018
On 3/12/2018 Load the Advanced EN*Half to end on 5/20/2018
On 5/21/2018 Load the Advanced EN*Full to end on 7/22/2018
On 7/23/2018 Load the -- Post Ironman Transition Plan, All Levels (4wks) to end on 8/19/2018
Coach Notes
Hey man...here's the basic template. RDP to start with some fun in Zwift...just chill and get to it. With Mallorca and AmZof on the board, I think it's better to have you do the Dec OS, and dialing that in. No real "Break" in this year, I assume you'll be smart enough to handle it.
As for the 5 hour power drop, I think more and more the key is harder 3 to 3.5 hour rides...earning IM TSS by adding ABP with some FTP or Best Effort intervals are best. AKA getting really good at kicking your own ass.
I want some flavor of Vasa to keep the body comp going, but you GOTTA START LIGHT so you don't blow up your shoulder. Like 20' a session 3-4 x a week for like 8 weeks....steady. Not hard, not an hour, etc.
Written - November 3 didn't see your plan ^^up there^^ before posting below which I wrote intermittently today... DOS? was planning on a Dec 3 Mary with a 4 week recovery/Break, BUT.. read on, then chime in, please. Also, only have access to Vasa 1-2x per week, so it will be a mix of Vasa/ pool I got up to a 3000m VASA WKO on Sunday, 4x250, 6x200, 150x 6 also with race schedule above - I do NOT view AmZof as a "race" it's a long catered training day" basically, think i'd rather do the JOS with the large group (and as bike captain) than DOS. Even if you tell me to NOT do the Dec 3 Mary, and start OS type of training on Dec1. Also, curious if I should be doing OS-Run vs OS bike, as i thought we previously said "run", or should we be doing Bike with an added running hack? (EN-Elite?) ------------------ Since Louisville, my hamstrings have been incredibly tight and sore, I don't recall having this problem after ANY previous IM. Additionally, I've had a pain in my hip that during the LV run (The small part I was running) made me say "what's that?it can't be good..."
Hamstring tightness/soreness is generally in the area where the hammies tie into the Glutes. But hip issues seems to be inside from the front outer quadrant if that makes any sense. Calling Ortho tomorrow. seems ok to run on flats, but on hills, even slight ones... hammies hurt. That said, last 7 days I ran 4/9/2/2/4.6/2/8@8:05 Thrs morning. (Nov 6 update, been only running 2 miles per day, some exceptions, ran 10 in CLE on Sunday, soreness now mostly only in Right hamstring.. trying to push mileage via volume, and be very aware of hammies, hoping to be able to push through on the Dec 3 Mary)
Then I listened to the beginning of Paul C's podcast about healing up after his LV 2016. Now I am thinking, am I nuts to be running or trying to run a marathon on Dec 6? Wondering if this is actually NOT the best course of action. I am thinking that I will continue to run the plan i have set (30-35 miles this week, which means a 12-14 mile run on saturday or sunday(likely sunday in Cleveland) then trying to roll into a 40 mile semi-normal week next week. Guessing that next week will see the soreness dissipate, or tell me I am doing too much?
thinking is that if i DO run the mary on 12/3(If i can seriously attempt a BQ), I have 4 weeks to do what Paul C suggested which is to just chill and workout when I want for the 4 weeks between the mary & JOS. I will be skiing(Stowe) 5-6 days over xmas vacation and can make an audible on the HRC.
I am looking on at You and your LC event wondering how you are in such great shape after racing the same weekend I did, same thought applyies to Cronk, Hagan, Picard & others are doing.
so the question really is this... should i be focusing differently than a big run/marathon block vs other balanced training in the next 4-8 weeks?
Bumping up to top of a long Micro forum & as THE big question; should i be laying off the running. Legs are feeling a bit better, but the right hammy still hurts. have an ortho appointment on Monday, but now think this is a fatigue issue(hip) using run streak to motivate me to run 2 miles per day most days. yesterday felt like i could do a bit more, but just did the 2. so, run? not run? how much? do a marathon? not do a marathon? go week by week? DOS/JOS? JOS with no mary and a "pre OS" in December? Bottom line on the Dec 3 Mary is that at some point I need to do 2 or 3; 14-18 mile runs and have total weekly volume in the mid to high 40s, THAT may not be a smart idea? as you can see my head is spinning (yeah, i know that's not the right emoji)
@Scott Dinhofer - the fatigue you describe sounds a lot like what I had 2 years ago. Not saying it's that bad, but saying that continuing to run right now is NOT GOIONG TO HELP.
I think the best course of action is:
Ortho for review of the situation.
Getting out of the Marathon...not part of your big goals, not worth it.
Dialing down the running, heading into run jail for minimum 4 weeks, potentially until New Year (8 weeks).
Plan for the January OS.
Basically if we can turn off the run to let your body heal, you could be good to go (after some massage, self care, etc) by January. But you ignore your body at your own peril.
Sometimes the hardest thing we do isn't training, it's DOING NOTHING.
okay.... got evaluated today... NOTHING wrong with me (from a physical perspective ) lots of stretching
sooo, what to do?? I had planned on JOS, jut like it better.., knowing I will have a volume ramp up in march to get ready for Mallorca...
I started to take our shared sheet from last year and start to build out the bi-weekly long Inside out rides but that is way off in the future.
Marathon is not my biggest goal, but would like to run BOS '19 wiht a friend, this is probably my one chance, but I am not even sure I can get there in the right shape... these are critical weeks and I am sure I can't pop out a 45 mile week with 2 days of speed work & one very long (16-18 mile run) next week, so I guess that answers that..? have given up the idea of ^^this^^
thinking... do balanced weeks, still working through the right leg hammie/groin/ glute issue swim as per schedule you gave me ^^up there^^ [on target] Bike - 3 rides per week outdoor gravel ride with the roadies, 2-2.5 hrs midweek midweek zwift race (or paul's crush intervals) long APB ride with the sunday AM EN gang possible MTB ride on weekend Run build up to 40 miles per week, I love running, I'm Forest Effing Gump, really!! once leg feels a bit better, some speedy work at least 1x a week 6x strides one time per week Z4 intervals Body Comp - on it, challenge is working, thus far! CORE CORE CORE - did I say I don't do enough Core?
goal is to spend the next 1-2 weeks listening to body and not going fully hard, yet use this two week time period to start a discplined 2x per week strength training regimen utilize 3rd week of Nov through xmas as a "pre-OS" - roll into the HRC (while skiing in STOWE!!) then roll into the JOS
thoughts? any shot of doing the marathon Dec 3 instead of above?
@Scott Dinhofer - OK I finally found your thread, thanks for your patience! I’m excited to hear that nothing is technically wrong with you, but clearly the feedback you’re getting from your body tells you that you’re under a lot of stress.
The trick here is to find a way to shed that stress and continue to make progress without compromising your total health.
I like the idea of a baseline level of training between now and January. The bike rides you have outlined a great and should have zero effect on your situation. The swimming will help the body composition so I hope you keep that up. The real issue here is the run.
I know you want to run 40 miles a week but you don’t have to. Why don’t we be a little more conservative and SuperTarget something like 64 mile runs this week. Then 65 mile runs the following week and see how it feels to sit at 30 miles a week for a little bit. We don’t need you at 40 miles a week until we are in season… And we definitely don’t need any right intensity at all until January. If you want intensity, just run up and down some hills at your steady pace.
Does that make sense? Our goal is to have you arrive at the start of January OS with good body comp, a solid foundation on the run and get Fitness on the bike.
Season Planning question July 22 IMLP (Signed up) then considering either: August 19 IMMT (4 weeks after LP) September 9 IMWI (7 weeks after LP)
IMAZ is Nov 18 - 11 weeks after IMWI or 15 weeks after IMMT, signed up already, this will be IM#12 for me! Fitting that if I get to Kona via legacy that the 12th is in AZ where #1 was.
Note that I have done both MT & WI 1x each, so both are "known" to me. I would not normally think of doing MT, but after your journey this year, I am thinking about it. That said, I know that barring any unforeseen circumstances, I intend to be pushing very hard at LP.
thought I should ask the coach, even though I think I "know" the right answer.
Given my experience in that of the other folks on the team, the four-week window is your best option for a peak performance.
It’s a tight window for a run recovery, but the odds of you running yourself directly into the ground and Placid are fairly slim.
By that I mean you would need to have the best possible race ever to start the run in a great position and then murder yourself for 26 miles. Most of us start to fade somewhere in there which bodes well for a turnaround. I say Tremblant, my friend.
here's the update... Hip feeling better, lots of ART & exercises at the hands of Dr Stu. MRI done, showed nothing... except for some old age. Getting a Cortisone shot next week, partially for relief of remaining pain & diagnostic tool, if it doesn't go away, then it's something else. time to get to work.. the single digit & negative temps have prevented me from running in Stowe i have not run since some sporadic running in November. I have biked 3-5 rides a week on Zwift, mostly doing the 4 week watt builder plan.
OS starts Monday! Assuming per a few posts above, that I am loading the Bike focus plan and working off our magical sheet. Should we have a call to discuss moving forward on the sheet?
oh, and as an aside, i severely bruised a rib coming out of the trees in Stowe... (no I did not hit a tree)
@Scott Dinhofer - I remember the cortisone shot strategy (and I like it)...so keep me posted on that. Funny how "process of elimination" still works WRT modern medicine. Keep me posted on that.
The Bike Focused OS it is, and do really really gradual return to running. I'd be okay with the treadmill for 2 to 2 miles EASY at a time. No need to be flashy while you are restarting.
How is the bike feeling on that program by the way?
ok, just checked the calendar and no shot scheduled, i will be there tomorrow AM to see shoulder guy and sort it out. per office hours, hamstring flared as soon as I ran 3 miles on TM at 9:30s on Monday. Did 2 miles yesterday. Planned on today, no run.. Dr Stu thinks hamstring tendinitis... we'll see if anything goes away after cortisone shot. does not bother me to bike or ski.
which TAB on the sheet did you update? if any? i created a 2018 sheet a few weeks/ months ago, but I don't see what you may have written there?
good news is after a bad xmas week, I am re-focused on BC and am now only 11 lbs over last years LP weight, goal is to be at last year;'s LP weight for mallorca... we just need the run to take shape.
question, and maybe we should speak? if I go into a month or so run jail, what extra should I be doing on vasa? on bike? oh, and now I have a 2nd VASA now one at my house, one at Jill's, EDIT: I developed a nasty Biceps Tendonosis when I swam like crazy after herniating my disc a few years ago, never really abated, have a Platelet injection on the calendar for late January and will have to take 6 weeks off swimming after & 1 before...
Any shot for a coffee/ beer late Saturday afternoon or Sunday right after team ride? I will not be riding Sunday, no room in car for trainer & bike in car, but will be in Taunton. Doing longish ride on Saturday...
UPDATE on Thursday AM, getting cortisone shot on Tuesday. hammy doesn't seem to bother me this AM, trainer seems fubared, so need to figure that out, will do crush intervals this afternoon .
Update - since we didn't get a response to above?!!?? slow start this past week, nailed biek wkos, runs well, read above.. this past weekend, did 1:45 of the planned 2:30 ride. Had to leave for Taunton. Sunday, in Taunton and just back home now (6:30) trying to motivate to do an hour or so on the trainer as an APB.. will do a mini APB for an hour & Vasa for an hour on Monday Tuesday is cortisone shot. if docs say ok to try running that night, I will. If not, will continue to build up biking on "off days."
the Q, as long as I am not doing run, how would you have me fill in on monday/Weds/ Fri with bike in a way that I can keep my effectiveness for FTP on Tuesday, VO2 (crush) on Thursday and for the weekend?
@Scott Dinhofer - since we were texting and discord in, I wasn’t sure I needed to reply to the actual thread. That’s the problem when you can talk to your coach in 16 different mediums!
If I recall correctly, they still made me not run for a couple days after the shot so that I have time to manifest itself. And I felt like shit the day I got the shot because my hip was full of fluid. That was quite possibly the worst I’ve felt the entire time!
If you are truly on a nonrunning protocol, then I might switch your workouts to be for bikes versus three. Same structure: Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday with a bonus session on Sunday in zone 2/steady.
On Monday Wednesday Friday I expect you to do some Vasa work and then you can do some easy spinning work on the bike if you also have time. I would give yourself a hard tap that you cannot exceed such as 2 W per kilo and do your best to either find events or other riders on that format. Given the sheer number of things going on inside Zwift I think you will be successful.
Before you start running you Should be doing some electrical time or, if possible, time on the alter G treadmill.
Comments
I think the issue on the back half of the run, was grit.. plain and simple, but that's another conversation
I modified the data tracker - can you have a look and modify columns as you see fit.
I am looking at the tracker and realize there is as much time between now & LV as there was between BRC & LP.. that's a very long stretch
TC w/kg is 2.98 for a 5:32 vs. est of 5.46hrs
PL w/kg is 2.71 for a 5:36 vs. est of 5.72hrs
MR w/kg is 2.45 for a 5:45 vs. est of 5.99hrs
SD w/kg is 2.72 for a 5:49 vs. est of 5.71hrs
SD 2016 w/kg 2.58 for a 5:47
1) The run fade...I don't think it was 100% a grit issue. Your AHR for the first 6 miles was supposed to be 130...but it was 135 (high) and on a downhill as well. I think you just got a bit hot early....tried to push both hills back in and after that you were pretty cooked. In fact, I think GRIT is what got you that run PR despite those early miles. Just one man's opinion....
2) More time isn't bad. It's more time to rest after what you did, and to get back into it. I support you no matter which you choose...less time might be better for your brain, but likely not for your legs.
3) Aside from a rubbing brake or a funky PM that had your FTP higher than it really was (all this year) then the only other option I can think of is you rode hard in all the wrong places? As in harder up (this year) vs last year, which only netted you a few seconds at a much greater cost? Ideally you are smoother up on higher watts and work harder down and "through" the next hill. I am thinking #2 with the PM as your TSS was 320 which is insanely high for that IF that you rode. No way the math is supposed to work out like that....or rather, no way you can run a 20' PR after earning 40 TSS points too many...
4) I updated the data sheet with my notes...hope they make sense!!!
pulled the trigger on the Louisville entry this afternoon prior to reading this!
there was a very slight rub of one of the P5 brake fairings.. I damn near broke my finger trying to clear what I thought was a stuck leaf. Not sure if that accounts for 17 watts, or the fact that my finger is still swollen! I am likely sending the Pedals back to Saris as soon as I get my hand on Brad Marcus's as they will test them for me and turn em back around in a week. the only thing that tells me that they weren't wrong for a while is that I've picked up a few KOMs after trying for over a year.. that's pure speed on a segment, right?
there was a moment where "something went wrong with my PM"
Berky camp, I rode up to Mass, 86 miles, mostly on roads I never rode on b4 and pulled 8 achievements including a 16' KOM. So while that weekend I came out with great power numbers, I had correlation with Strava pointy end to back it up. Plus Brad telling me I was much stronger than a year ago.
the "moment" was July 11, going out for ez intervals, power just dropped to stupid low levels as I am pedaling at 75% on flatish terrain. reset the garmin after a bit and same thing happened, it was clear my power output from an RPE perspective didn't drop by 40-50%
https://www.strava.com/activities/1078704831/analysis
https://www.strava.com/activities/1078756876/analysis
but then a week later I do my 2.5 hr last big ride a week before LP at 75/80% and pick up 2 good PRs, and everything felt "normal"
https://www.strava.com/activities/1084595459
then during taper week - do 4x8s, they felt incredibly easy (but they should, right?)
https://www.strava.com/activities/1090213482/analysis
the last one had wonky power readings again...
so the answer is until saris checks em out and I ride brad's, i have zero confidence in my P1 Pedals due to the power dropout they showed on those two days.. meantime, I just went out and did 4x8@75% and they felt fine, but again, sometimes I am riding really good power and I question if it's right...
I hate it when the PM goes bad. Then it's all self doubt afterwards. Let's hope they get dialed in. In the meantime ride Old Skool and do the hard work until it hurts.
Chat soon.
through 8/27 you have me doing 2x 90' hard rides during the week. how would you structure a training week? thus far I've been doing...
Mon/Tues/Fri - Swim & Run
Weds - Hard bike, short run
Thrs - Long Run
Sat - Long Bike/ Short run
Sun - 1.5-2hr APB B & 8-10 mi run
Looks like i can roll into something similar post labor day after the big week?
What's the two 90' hard ride look like to you?
for the longer weekend ride? ok to do 3-5 hrs on the road bike with boyz? realize that's probalby not steady riding, but I tend to go steadier than the others.. (I attack on the flats & DH)
I am thinking for the 90' rides:
- Ride 1 2x20 FTPish type of test I've been doing, followed by 20-30' of hill riding in the local area.
- Ride 2 can make good local circuits, have one with a bunch of climbing that I used to use as a 1 hr TT, can make that longer.. (ok to do this one on road bike?)
surprised we are capping run volume at 40?will ping you ahead of time, but doing a Snowmass camp with Al and a surprise EN pointy ender as my rabbit.. going to be focused on TT types of riding and not stoopid climbing.. 5 days... week of 9/17
I like the ABP rides as a great counterpoint – it's hard enough to work but not so hard you can't achieve them.
I think your ride one and ride to options are perfect. And yes to the road bike for sure! When you ride with your buddies, the first couple weeks I want you sitting in the back almost exclusively. It's great to get miles and speed in without working 110%! For these early rides go easier but longer. Then you can start working harder efforts there and shorten the right time to like three hours.
As for the run, there is a certain point of diminishing returns. Sitting at 40 miles a week over extended period of time can be a super power in another itself… Keeping that fixed will allow you to adapt to the load and eventually put you in a place where we can push a little higher in those last few key weeks.
In both cases, continued nutritional excellence is key!!!
- haven't put together a good week of training since LP. (4 weeks)
- had a slight back issue 2 weeks ago, let it rest while tapering (from not much) to do the Lake George half mary (won my AG with a 1:36) so now I am recovering from THAT
- tweaked back doing some weight machines day after the half, so that took me out of a good week after Lake George
- got an ok week in last week
- trying to get on focus THIS week.
Issue is that my legs just feel trashed. hammy's are tight, particularly right one which really bothered me in LP and during the 1/2. Feeling like my power isn't where it was. Run's definitely hurt though it is clear the speed is there.Hoping that just listening to my body and detuning wko's in response to how I feel would be enough.
I was planning on a big tri week next week since it's a holiday week. wanted to get your thoughts on that, thinking is that it would be volume vs intensity. Reminder that 2 or 3 weeks later I have a CO camp trip planned as well.
other considerations-
local sprint (like 40 people total) that i might do for racing practice at end of next week
local OLY (Westchester Tri) -1000+people; I'd like to really race this, basically the day after I get back from CO
Wanted to get your input on what I should do next week? follow "big tri week" plan? something else?
should I reconsider the 2 races? EG, will they affect my training pre Louisville?
Also trying to get a day to come up and see Todd to check my bike fit, sent you an email about the lobster shack...
Also check out doing a pre-run dynamic warm-up to make sure the glutes are working so the hamstrings are overdoing it:
Finally I have one of those lacrosse balls I keep in my car that I will quite often put under my hamstring while driving in case I need some motivation.
I don't care so much about the long runs as your fitness clearly there. I want lots of short frequent runs at your target receipt for it. We do not want you to replicate that early mile mishap from Placid. There is no rolling of the dice and Louisville until the start of the second lap!
- I promised myself to not address anything past Louisville until Monday 10/16 - but alas I must as travel arrangements to be made depending on answers.
- With next season's focus on IMLP with AmZof Long course as my big tune up, what OS would you have me think about?
- Also, I am thinking of a late season (Dec 3) Full Mary in Sacramento, its' flat & 350' net downhill, goal to BQ, is this too soon after IMKY? (7 weeks), I'd combine this with a business trip to SF for thrs/ fri before, so I'd be in the time zone for a few days.
- Lastly, how soon does your phone consult time book up? Thinking we should have something scheduled for post LV, season Recap, laying the foundation for 2018, which will be a big year...
btw, crushed an OLY on Sunday, losing 1st place of 83 in my AG in the last 300 yards... See RR hereI think that’s the best option given what you want to achieve! Happy taper!
OK - Louisville didn't go as planned - Race Report - at the end of the day, two years ago, I'd never have thought I'd write that I blew up in a race and still finished in the 10th%ile... That's not half bad.
I don't really think the overbiking was the culprit as much as perhaps the 7 weeks leading into the race were. I never felt right in those weeks.. seemed to be going from recovery to recovery.
curious on this. by the numbers, I overbiked the 1st 56 by 17 Watts NP and underbiked the 2nd 56 by 3watts, had I ridden target power for the full 112, what do you think the time differential would have been?
The bigger issues that I want to discuss, I scheduled a phone consult for next weds, but your times all seem to be at night, please let me know if we can move call to a daytime. thanks.
December Marathon - is this smart or not in context of setting up best possible OS & build for trying to really hit it in LP next year?:
Thinking of the following from now through xmas
- Running - I am planning on using the framework that Jeremy outlined in this thread
- Biking - I will be doing a bunch of social riding in the next three months. Tuesday night gravel rides with my intense cycling buddies, weekend MTB rides, some road rides as conditions allow and of course the Sunday EN Zwift session
- Swimming - ideally Vasa only 2x a week, this is at Jill's house, so I will problably do the pool 1x a week as well. Also commit to doing a 20 min cordz wko a few times a week
- Strength Sessions - probably work with a biking buddy who is a trainer on full body conditioning focusing on core 2x / week. have to make sure he doesn't interfere with run training by beating me up too much.
- Xmas - holiday run challenge rolling into JOS...
focus on getting body comp lower with the Hoff Holiday weight challenge beginning Nov 1I replied to your report thread...more of this stuff ^above^ in our call!!
Kona is a Long Term Project: Body Comp + Execution -- IOW, we need to get your body comp down, and it's a lifestyle choice for getting and remaining healthy, not just an "8 weeks to race day so cut weight" kind of project. Goal: 140lb by April 2018
Bike Strength Remains Important: Get FTP up this OS using critical workouts, hard rides with buddies and Zwift Races. Participate in Sunday ABP rides, and 1x a month go long on the bike (4 to 5 hours steady, can be tri / road / mtb). FTP doesn't really fade so much until you are 60, but you need to keep working at it, there's no long term downtime.
Bike Endurance: Camps are good for the "pop" but you still need a good long ride at least 1x every 2 weeks.
How to Build 5-Hour Power: There are two options...you can do the "best last NP hour" idea from withrow; or you can do Paul Curtin's ABP+FTP rides from the weekend (think 3 hours of ABP work with short breaks, then some FTP work). Either way, you are riding pretty hard, and pushing that last hour!
Run Frequency: it rules...gotta keep it up, building to 35 mph by December in a comfortable way.
Racing: I like AmZo, #IMLP, and the next race is Wisco or Lou. The harder courses fit your racing style. When your FTP puts you in the 300 range (absolute watts not W/KG) then we can talk about a flat drag race scenario like FL, or AZ. I think you could be top ten at IMAZ for example but not top 3 right now. Maybe TX is an early 2019 race...
Swim Frequency: We just want to keep you in the 10,000 / week range...start up with 4,000, then 7,000...then by January have yourself in that 10k ish range to get used to the work!!!
Thinking I just make a note to self to:
assuming ^^THAT^^ should be helpful?
Here's your updated Season Plan, as promised. This is where you'll return to post all your "coach" questions as responses; I'll see them and reply. This first post is my best outline of how to proceed with your races, but you can ask any / all questions you want. So post away, know that I reply here usually M/W/F each week.
Power User Tip: Click the Star icon by the Title of this thread to subscribe, and you'll get email updates when I do reply.
Your Notes
Strong bike & Run than in the past
Bike topped out at 4.0 w/kg.
if i can get race weight to really happen, should be at 4.3 if I just lose weight, hoping for a few watts to get me up to 4.4. That would be an FTP of 280 vs this year's peak of 272.
Concerned with lagging 5 hr power, which we will discuss on today's (10/25) call
realize that EN elite plan may supercede all of this, but thought I should put it out there for you.
Your Races
Season Update
These are your recommended training plans, including the date you should start each one (sometimes you won’t complete a full plan but transition to another one). You can change your plans on the Training Plan page by clicking the Move / Change button. Learn more about each plan on the Training Plan Central Page.
Coach Notes
Hey man...here's the basic template. RDP to start with some fun in Zwift...just chill and get to it. With Mallorca and AmZof on the board, I think it's better to have you do the Dec OS, and dialing that in. No real "Break" in this year, I assume you'll be smart enough to handle it.
As for the 5 hour power drop, I think more and more the key is harder 3 to 3.5 hour rides...earning IM TSS by adding ABP with some FTP or Best Effort intervals are best. AKA getting really good at kicking your own ass.
I want some flavor of Vasa to keep the body comp going, but you GOTTA START LIGHT so you don't blow up your shoulder. Like 20' a session 3-4 x a week for like 8 weeks....steady. Not hard, not an hour, etc.
Let me know what you think!
~ Patrick
didn't see your plan ^^up there^^ before posting below which I wrote intermittently today...
DOS? was planning on a Dec 3 Mary with a 4 week recovery/Break, BUT.. read on, then chime in, please.
Also, only have access to Vasa 1-2x per week, so it will be a mix of Vasa/ pool
I got up to a 3000m VASA WKO on Sunday, 4x250, 6x200, 150x 6
also with race schedule above - I do NOT view AmZof as a "race" it's a long catered training day"
basically, think i'd rather do the JOS with the large group (and as bike captain) than DOS. Even if you tell me to NOT do the Dec 3 Mary, and start OS type of training on Dec1.
Also, curious if I should be doing OS-Run vs OS bike, as i thought we previously said "run", or should we be doing Bike with an added running hack? (EN-Elite?)
------------------
Since Louisville, my hamstrings have been incredibly tight and sore, I don't recall having this problem after ANY previous IM. Additionally, I've had a pain in my hip that during the LV run (The small part I was running) made me say "what's that?it can't be good..."
Hamstring tightness/soreness is generally in the area where the hammies tie into the Glutes. But hip issues seems to be inside from the front outer quadrant if that makes any sense. Calling Ortho tomorrow.
seems ok to run on flats, but on hills, even slight ones... hammies hurt. That said, last 7 days I ran 4/9/2/2/4.6/2/8@8:05 Thrs morning.
(Nov 6 update, been only running 2 miles per day, some exceptions, ran 10 in CLE on Sunday, soreness now mostly only in Right hamstring.. trying to push mileage via volume, and be very aware of hammies, hoping to be able to push through on the Dec 3 Mary)
Then I listened to the beginning of Paul C's podcast about healing up after his LV 2016. Now I am thinking, am I nuts to be running or trying to run a marathon on Dec 6? Wondering if this is actually NOT the best course of action. I am thinking that I will continue to run the plan i have set (30-35 miles this week, which means a 12-14 mile run on saturday or sunday(likely sunday in Cleveland) then trying to roll into a 40 mile semi-normal week next week. Guessing that next week will see the soreness dissipate, or tell me I am doing too much?
thinking is that if i DO run the mary on 12/3(If i can seriously attempt a BQ), I have 4 weeks to do what Paul C suggested which is to just chill and workout when I want for the 4 weeks between the mary & JOS. I will be skiing(Stowe) 5-6 days over xmas vacation and can make an audible on the HRC.
I am looking on at You and your LC event wondering how you are in such great shape after racing the same weekend I did, same thought applyies to Cronk, Hagan, Picard & others are doing.
so the question really is this...
should i be focusing differently than a big run/marathon block vs other balanced training in the next 4-8 weeks?
Legs are feeling a bit better, but the right hammy still hurts.
have an ortho appointment on Monday, but now think this is a fatigue issue(hip)
using run streak to motivate me to run 2 miles per day most days. yesterday felt like i could do a bit more, but just did the 2.
so, run? not run? how much? do a marathon? not do a marathon? go week by week?
DOS/JOS?
JOS with no mary and a "pre OS" in December?
Bottom line on the Dec 3 Mary is that at some point I need to do 2 or 3; 14-18 mile runs and have total weekly volume in the mid to high 40s, THAT may not be a smart idea?
as you can see my head is spinning
I think the best course of action is:
- Ortho for review of the situation.
- Getting out of the Marathon...not part of your big goals, not worth it.
- Dialing down the running, heading into run jail for minimum 4 weeks, potentially until New Year (8 weeks).
- Plan for the January OS.
Basically if we can turn off the run to let your body heal, you could be good to go (after some massage, self care, etc) by January. But you ignore your body at your own peril.Sometimes the hardest thing we do isn't training, it's DOING NOTHING.
Please keep me posted!
~ Coach P
lots of stretching
sooo, what to do??
I had planned on JOS, jut like it better.., knowing I will have a volume ramp up in march to get ready for Mallorca...
I started to take our shared sheet from last year and start to build out the bi-weekly long Inside out rides
but that is way off in the future.
Marathon is not my biggest goal, but would like to run BOS '19 wiht a friend, this is probably my one chance, but I am not even sure I can get there in the right shape... these are critical weeks and I am sure I can't pop out a 45 mile week with 2 days of speed work & one very long (16-18 mile run) next week, so I guess that answers that..?
have given up the idea of ^^this^^
thinking...
do balanced weeks, still working through the right leg hammie/groin/ glute issue
swim as per schedule you gave me ^^up there^^ [on target]
Bike - 3 rides per week
outdoor gravel ride with the roadies, 2-2.5 hrs midweek
midweek zwift race (or paul's crush intervals)
long APB ride with the sunday AM EN gang
possible MTB ride on weekend
Run
build up to 40 miles per week, I love running, I'm Forest Effing Gump, really!!
once leg feels a bit better, some speedy work
at least 1x a week 6x strides
one time per week Z4 intervals
Body Comp - on it, challenge is working, thus far!
CORE CORE CORE - did I say I don't do enough Core?
goal is to spend the next 1-2 weeks listening to body and not going fully hard, yet
use this two week time period to start a discplined 2x per week strength training regimen
utilize 3rd week of Nov through xmas as a "pre-OS" - roll into the HRC (while skiing in STOWE!!) then roll into the JOS
thoughts?
any shot of doing the marathon Dec 3 instead of above?
July 22 IMLP (Signed up)
then considering either:
August 19 IMMT (4 weeks after LP)
September 9 IMWI (7 weeks after LP)
IMAZ is Nov 18 - 11 weeks after IMWI or 15 weeks after IMMT, signed up already, this will be IM#12 for me! Fitting that if I get to Kona via legacy that the 12th is in AZ where #1 was.
Note that I have done both MT & WI 1x each, so both are "known" to me.
I would not normally think of doing MT, but after your journey this year, I am thinking about it. That said, I know that barring any unforeseen circumstances, I intend to be pushing very hard at LP.
thought I should ask the coach, even though I think I "know" the right answer.
It’s a tight window for a run recovery, but the odds of you running yourself directly into the ground and Placid are fairly slim.
By that I mean you would need to have the best possible race ever to start the run in a great position and then murder yourself for 26 miles. Most of us start to fade somewhere in there which bodes well for a turnaround. I say Tremblant, my friend.
MRI done, showed nothing... except for some old age.
Getting a Cortisone shot next week, partially for relief of remaining pain & diagnostic tool, if it doesn't go away, then it's something else.
time to get to work.. the single digit & negative temps have prevented me from running in Stowe
i have not run since some sporadic running in November.
I have biked 3-5 rides a week on Zwift, mostly doing the 4 week watt builder plan.
OS starts Monday! Assuming per a few posts above, that I am loading the Bike focus plan and working off our magical sheet. Should we have a call to discuss moving forward on the sheet?
oh, and as an aside, i severely bruised a rib coming out of the trees in Stowe... (no I did not hit a tree)
The Bike Focused OS it is, and do really really gradual return to running. I'd be okay with the treadmill for 2 to 2 miles EASY at a time. No need to be flashy while you are restarting.
How is the bike feeling on that program by the way?
Please review the sheet. If you want to dive in deeper than what I've written, you can set up a consult here: http://members.endurancenation.us/Store/AdditionalServices.aspx
per office hours, hamstring flared as soon as I ran 3 miles on TM at 9:30s on Monday. Did 2 miles yesterday. Planned on today, no run.. Dr Stu thinks hamstring tendinitis... we'll see if anything goes away after cortisone shot. does not bother me to bike or ski.
which TAB on the sheet did you update? if any? i created a 2018 sheet a few weeks/ months ago, but I don't see what you may have written there?
good news is after a bad xmas week, I am re-focused on BC and am now only 11 lbs over last years LP weight, goal is to be at last year;'s LP weight for mallorca... we just need the run to take shape.
question, and maybe we should speak? if I go into a month or so run jail, what extra should I be doing on vasa? on bike?
oh, and now I have a 2nd VASA now one at my house, one at Jill's, EDIT: I developed a nasty Biceps Tendonosis when I swam like crazy after herniating my disc a few years ago, never really abated, have a Platelet injection on the calendar for late January and will have to take 6 weeks off swimming after & 1 before...
Any shot for a coffee/ beer late Saturday afternoon or Sunday right after team ride? I will not be riding Sunday, no room in car for trainer & bike in car, but will be in Taunton. Doing longish ride on Saturday...
UPDATE on Thursday AM, getting cortisone shot on Tuesday. hammy doesn't seem to bother me this AM, trainer seems fubared, so need to figure that out, will do crush intervals this afternoon .
slow start this past week, nailed biek wkos, runs well, read above..
this past weekend, did 1:45 of the planned 2:30 ride. Had to leave for Taunton. Sunday, in Taunton and just back home now (6:30) trying to motivate to do an hour or so on the trainer as an APB..
will do a mini APB for an hour & Vasa for an hour on Monday
Tuesday is cortisone shot. if docs say ok to try running that night, I will. If not, will continue to build up biking on "off days."
the Q, as long as I am not doing run, how would you have me fill in on monday/Weds/ Fri with bike in a way that I can keep my effectiveness for FTP on Tuesday, VO2 (crush) on Thursday and for the weekend?
On Monday Wednesday Friday I expect you to do some Vasa work and then you can do some easy spinning work on the bike if you also have time. I would give yourself a hard tap that you cannot exceed such as 2 W per kilo and do your best to either find events or other riders on that format. Given the sheer number of things going on inside Zwift I think you will be successful.
Before you start running you Should be doing some electrical time or, if possible, time on the alter G treadmill.