Had something new happen today - OSINTW1 - The 2x8 + 2x15 WKO
About halfway through each of the 15' intervals the "average dot" disappeared. At the end of each interval I get a power equal to the negative of the target (for me -174). The data graphed just fine.
Just came upstairs to look online and the WKO didn't upload (showed in my career on the laptop with TR installed).
My question is why does the tracing seem to jump around way more then the tracing in our WKO graph. TR made it look like I was all over the place and WKO was nice and steady for the most part as I felt through out the wko.
@Carl, I find when riding it seems to jump around a bit, but when done, it seems to post very smooth. Also, is it possible, the longer the ride, the smoother it appears. Just looked at some of my history and it seems a little mixed.
Had something new happen today - OSINTW1 - The 2x8 + 2x15 WKO
About halfway through each of the 15' intervals the "average dot" disappeared. At the end of each interval I get a power equal to the negative of the target (for me -174). The data graphed just fine.
Just came upstairs to look online and the WKO didn't upload (showed in my career on the laptop with TR installed).
Hopefully just a bug they can track down...
EDIT - was finally able to upload it.
Hey Jeff, I witnessed this same thing yesterday. I think the dot and the upload issue or two different things.
For the dot, did you happen to pause the workout by breaking before the 15 minute interval? That's where it happened to me.
Also, the dot will only show up if it's a defined interval in our workout structure, so if you can't see the interval online in the interval summary, then we just need to tweak the workout in the WC and that should fix it.
For the upload we sometimes experience transient errors. A refresh, or closing/opening TR fixes it usually. We're going to build in some retry logic in our server in the future.
My question is why does the tracing seem to jump around way more then the tracing in our WKO graph. TR made it look like I was all over the place and WKO was nice and steady for the most part as I felt through out the wko.
Thanks
In 1.3.9 power smoothing only affects your live display number and not your graph.
The desktop graph does smooth a bit, and so does the graph on the site.
In 1.2.6 we were doing a big no-no and recording smoothed data. This was then smoothed again and shown on the graphs. This got people used to viewing really smoothed data.
Now that we've fixed this problem, riders are seeing a better representation of their actual ride. I think WKO is also smoothing more than we are.
I personally think this is a nice thing. I don't think people should have any power smoothing on while riding on the trainer and should just work on getting a smoother stroke...but a lot of people disagree with me .
A lot of people just want to see smoothed data in the graph. So what we're going to do is make it so the graph smoothing stays consistent with the smoothing value you choose while working out. That should get people back to nice smooth graphs. This will bring it back to how it looked in 1.2.6 and everyone should be happy again.
My guess is I might have eased off the gas too much - reaching for water or the like and it registered a pause. I have seen that the dot is only there for work intervals and not recovery.
My guess is I might have eased off the gas too much - reaching for water or the like and it registered a pause. I have seen that the dot is only there for work intervals and not recovery.
The pause was not intentional during the 2x15 Sweet Spot intervals. At some point during the interval the dot was just gone. The only consistent theme between both events was it happened at roughly 7' into the 15' effort.
The pause was not intentional during the 2x15 Sweet Spot intervals. At some point during the interval the dot was just gone. The only consistent theme between both events was it happened at roughly 7' into the 15' effort.
Ah, I got it now. Okay, just went away DURING the interval. That helps. Thanks.
Had an interesting thing happen while doing my wk1 2x8 , TrainerRoad kept intermittently amusing on me. Was thinking it might be battery going bad in power tap but Joule wasn't picking up the pauses? Anyone else experience this?
@Scott- that happens to me every once in a while and it's worse with my HRM than it is with the Power. I assumed it was because my computer is reasonably far away from my bike while riding. I'm guessing those HRM straps were designed to only transmit about 5 feet since under most cases your strap is on your chest and your watch is on your wrist. You could try either new batteries in your Powertap or HRM strap or maybe try to get your computer a little closer. Even 1 foot will likely make a difference.
Had an interesting thing happen while doing my wk1 2x8 , TrainerRoad kept intermittently amusing on me. Was thinking it might be battery going bad in power tap but Joule wasn't picking up the pauses? Anyone else experience this?
Yes, as John said it's usually a battery issue. The older the battery, the smaller the effective field is. So a new battery goes about 20 feet...then as it gets older it goes to 19, then 18, then 17 feet, ect. The worst I've seen it is a Quarq that went 8 inches . This lady NEVER changed her battery .
So even if it works on your handle bars, it might not go the couple extra feet. You can mitigate the issue by making sure that the USB stick is free of obstructions and that it's as close as possible. You could also use a USB extension cord. I prefer just to change my battery every 4-5 months.
It could also be an interference issue, which could be a problem on a low battery too.
I did the Trainer Road FTP test yesterday (2x 8 minute test) I am using a Cycle Ops Magneto Pro & have it set to the mountain resistance (ie maximum resistance) The test came back with an FTP of 318, LTHR of 138. Now the LTHR is consistent with my 40 minute time trial a week ago, but people have suggested that a power of 318 is really good. How does this get calculated? I was averaging about 25kph during each of the 8 minute pushes, and maintaining a cadence of 85-100 across the whole hour.
Could this be VERY wrong? How can I know?
Thanks Sara
ps - Also I thought I was supposed to get a 30 day free trial with Trainer Road, instead it has charged my card already? Is this normal too?
Hey, Sara. Just my opinion, but those numbers sound way off. A FTP of 318 is like pro triathlete level and LTHR of 138 is somewhat low. Finally, why are you ignoring the EN protocol for power testing on the bike? I am not using Trainer Road, so I may be missing something, but speed and cadence are not important when doing a direct test using power or heart rate.
Couple things on the power. First, our curve for that could be off. I'm not sure if that's a verified one or if its just from the manufacturer. Since its a mag trainer, the curve should be flat and as long as the slope is right, the numbers should be good for training.
Your speed magnet could also be clipping. That could cause double speed readings in some cases and make your power really high. That's why I want to see your ride.
The 2x8 minute test is the CTS test. We take an average of your two intervals and multiply them by .9. You would have gotten a high result with the EN test too though.
Hi guys! I'm going to be starting w/ EN TR after I get my new laptop this weekend. Question re: ANT+.... I have a Powertap wheel w/ Joule, plus a Garmin 910xt w/ ANT+ stick. Do I need a separate stick, or can I use the Garmin 910 stick? Thanks! Looking forward to making some pretty charts.
I was thinking that the 25' w/u could be a separate workout, but you would have to make the main set...just that a main set without the 12' at the begining. Unless, maybe Nate and Co. can add a feature where we can jump ahead and skip the 12'.
You can jump ahead in workouts today. Just click on the graph for where you want to start.
Oh thank you for that I had no idea that you can skip ahead! I was wondering the same thing since the workouts do not match up to the warm ups.
Hi guys! I'm going to be starting w/ EN TR after I get my new laptop this weekend. Question re: ANT+.... I have a Powertap wheel w/ Joule, plus a Garmin 910xt w/ ANT+ stick. Do I need a separate stick, or can I use the Garmin 910 stick? Thanks! Looking forward to making some pretty charts.
You can use the ANT+ stick that came with your 910. You'll just have to open Garmin Ant Agent after a TrainerRoad ride if you want to upload data from your watch. We shut it down so we can take control of the ANT stick
I've had this happen not only in the OS, but also in sufferfest video. The result is that the "long" AP stays, but the short intervals disappear "Attack 1, Climb 2, etc.").
I did have a problem uploading to career again. Tried closing and opening TR app, then reset computer, then try again , actually gave me an error message, then closed and opened app again and it finally worked. Is this something in the new update?
Earlier in the thread, you had mentioned that TR automatically calculates the FTP based on the 20 minute test. Where can I see this? The number I see in the interval for the 20 min is my NP/AP for that interval and I can calculate .95 of that, but I was just curious where TR puts the calculated value (more curious about the software than anything else).
Also, I have my computer hooked up to the CT. When I tested in slope mode, the computer went to sleep about halfway through the test. It had never done that before, but this was also the first time I used slope vs. ERG mode with TR. Does this make a difference? I figured that, even in slope mode, the computer should still be getting information from the CT, but I guess it wasn't. How do I fix this?
Hey Richard, were you using the "20 minute test" from our stock workouts? After you finish a workout a little box will pop up with your new FTP.
could you link me to your workout?
for your computer going to sleep issue, we have a shift key press happen digitally every 30 seconds. The CT data alone won't turn off the screen saver. What version were you using? We had some problems in an earlier beta.
Okay, no worries. I actually thought that might be the case when I looked on the Support link on the website. I was just wondering if it was something I had missed. I like to figure those kinds of things out if I can. As far as the sleep mode, it was running on the power cord. It was just kind of strange because it hasn't happened to me before, but this was the first time I had run it in the CT slope mode (usually in ERG). I've done a workaround by changing the sleep settings on my computer. If you figure it out, I'll be interested to know what happened.
Comments
copy that! thanks
Had something new happen today - OSINTW1 - The 2x8 + 2x15 WKO
About halfway through each of the 15' intervals the "average dot" disappeared. At the end of each interval I get a power equal to the negative of the target (for me -174). The data graphed just fine.
Just came upstairs to look online and the WKO didn't upload (showed in my career on the laptop with TR installed).
Hopefully just a bug they can track down...
EDIT - was finally able to upload it.
Thanks
Mine is very "spikey" as well. My power smoothing is set to 3 sec (like the Garmin)
Hey Jeff, I witnessed this same thing yesterday. I think the dot and the upload issue or two different things.
For the dot, did you happen to pause the workout by breaking before the 15 minute interval? That's where it happened to me.
Also, the dot will only show up if it's a defined interval in our workout structure, so if you can't see the interval online in the interval summary, then we just need to tweak the workout in the WC and that should fix it.
For the upload we sometimes experience transient errors. A refresh, or closing/opening TR fixes it usually. We're going to build in some retry logic in our server in the future.
In 1.3.9 power smoothing only affects your live display number and not your graph.
The desktop graph does smooth a bit, and so does the graph on the site.
In 1.2.6 we were doing a big no-no and recording smoothed data. This was then smoothed again and shown on the graphs. This got people used to viewing really smoothed data.
Now that we've fixed this problem, riders are seeing a better representation of their actual ride. I think WKO is also smoothing more than we are.
I personally think this is a nice thing. I don't think people should have any power smoothing on while riding on the trainer and should just work on getting a smoother stroke...but a lot of people disagree with me
.
A lot of people just want to see smoothed data in the graph. So what we're going to do is make it so the graph smoothing stays consistent with the smoothing value you choose while working out. That should get people back to nice smooth graphs. This will bring it back to how it looked in 1.2.6 and everyone should be happy again.
My guess is I might have eased off the gas too much - reaching for water or the like and it registered a pause. I have seen that the dot is only there for work intervals and not recovery.
This is the ride in question FWIW - http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/157624
Okay, good to know. So there might be a bug where if you pause right before an interval the dot doesn't show. I'll put it on my list to check.
The pause was not intentional during the 2x15 Sweet Spot intervals. At some point during the interval the dot was just gone. The only consistent theme between both events was it happened at roughly 7' into the 15' effort.
Ah, I got it now. Okay, just went away DURING the interval. That helps. Thanks.
Yes, as John said it's usually a battery issue. The older the battery, the smaller the effective field is. So a new battery goes about 20 feet...then as it gets older it goes to 19, then 18, then 17 feet, ect. The worst I've seen it is a Quarq that went 8 inches
So even if it works on your handle bars, it might not go the couple extra feet. You can mitigate the issue by making sure that the USB stick is free of obstructions and that it's as close as possible. You could also use a USB extension cord. I prefer just to change my battery every 4-5 months.
It could also be an interference issue, which could be a problem on a low battery too.
Here's more info: http://support.trainerroad.com/entr...l-possible
I did the Trainer Road FTP test yesterday (2x 8 minute test) I am using a Cycle Ops Magneto Pro & have it set to the mountain resistance (ie maximum resistance)
The test came back with an FTP of 318, LTHR of 138. Now the LTHR is consistent with my 40 minute time trial a week ago, but people have suggested that a power of 318 is really good. How does this get calculated? I was averaging about 25kph during each of the 8 minute pushes, and maintaining a cadence of 85-100 across the whole hour.
Could this be VERY wrong? How can I know?
Thanks
Sara
ps - Also I thought I was supposed to get a 30 day free trial with Trainer Road, instead it has charged my card already? Is this normal too?
Hey Sara,
Whats your TR name? I'd like to look at the file.
Couple things on the power. First, our curve for that could be off. I'm not sure if that's a verified one or if its just from the manufacturer. Since its a mag trainer, the curve should be flat and as long as the slope is right, the numbers should be good for training.
Oh thank you for that I had no idea that you can skip ahead! I was wondering the same thing since the workouts do not match up to the warm ups.
You can use the ANT+ stick that came with your 910. You'll just have to open Garmin Ant Agent after a TrainerRoad ride if you want to upload data from your watch. We shut it down so we can take control of the ANT stick
I've had this happen not only in the OS, but also in sufferfest video. The result is that the "long" AP stays, but the short intervals disappear "Attack 1, Climb 2, etc.").
I did have a problem uploading to career again. Tried closing and opening TR app, then reset computer, then try again , actually gave me an error message, then closed and opened app again and it finally worked. Is this something in the new update?
We had some server issues yesterday so that could be related.
We occasionally get reports like this. I'm not sure if its server or client related. I think we might build in retry logic on the server and client.
I just finished my FTP test and I'm confused:
Earlier in the thread, you had mentioned that TR automatically calculates the FTP based on the 20 minute test. Where can I see this? The number I see in the interval for the 20 min is my NP/AP for that interval and I can calculate .95 of that, but I was just curious where TR puts the calculated value (more curious about the software than anything else).
Also, I have my computer hooked up to the CT. When I tested in slope mode, the computer went to sleep about halfway through the test. It had never done that before, but this was also the first time I used slope vs. ERG mode with TR. Does this make a difference? I figured that, even in slope mode, the computer should still be getting information from the CT, but I guess it wasn't. How do I fix this?
Thanks.
Hey Richard, were you using the "20 minute test" from our stock workouts? After you finish a workout a little box will pop up with your new FTP.
could you link me to your workout?
for your computer going to sleep issue, we have a shift key press happen digitally every 30 seconds. The CT data alone won't turn off the screen saver. What version were you using? We had some problems in an earlier beta.
I was using the OS FTP test. Here's the workout: http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/166275
As far as the version I am using, I just downloaded the most recent version prior to my workout, so it was 1.3.10
Thanks for the quick response.
Oh, the OS FTP test doesn't have the correct flag in it yet. We'll get that added.
ill have to look into the sleep problem. Could you have ran out of battery?
Thanks.