To access the EN workouts after being accepted as an EN member in TR, you have to open Trainerroad, click on the INFO tap, and then click the "Resync Workouts" tab. Once you do that, and it loads the workouts, you should have the EN workouts. I had this same problem and figured it out the other day. Good luck.
I have resynced TR, but I cannot get any access to any of the workouts? I back read this forum and I don't see how to be part of this? The wiki instructions no longer work either. Can anyone help? thanks
Do Nate/Reid still read this thread. This is probably a technical question for them...
Trouble with SRM numbers on Garmin not matching TrainerRoad...
I use an SRM Powermeter and had some problems in the past with readouts. This has been fine or months then this past weekend it started up again. A little background. I use Osymetric chainrings. They work great on my tri bike but shift like crap on my road bike. So this past weekend I swapped them out for my round ones and torqued the bolts to spec. (Changing chainrings usually changes the 'calibration' in a pretty major way.
My routine for using TR is always the same. Spin my crank to wake up the SRM, leave the crank in the 3 o'clock - 9 o'clock position. Turn my garmin 510 on. Then wake up my computer and turn TR on. I "calibrate" my 510 and check that against the initial calibration on TR (they both read 428). Then I do my workout. TR was consistently reading about 20W lower than my garmin. Doh. It "seems" like a bigger difference at higher power numbers but I haven't done detailed analysis on the actual files yet to see if it is linear or not. The ~20W was when doing sets around 300W.
I updated with the newest version of TR and got out my old Garmin 500. Redid all of the calibrations and the initial calibration numbers all matched. Then while pedaling my 510 and my 500 gave exactly the same readouts and TR was still much lower.
I understand that for Powertap or even Quarq they simply read the ANT+ signal, so they can't really be different. But I think the SRM produces some real time calibration numbers that are constantly changing (my simplification). This was a problem for me when TrainerRoad first came out, but it has been flawless for me for the past yr with my 'other' chainrings. Provided I am meticulous about the startup sequence.
1) Was this a coincidence that it happened when I changed my chainrings (my garmin calibration number changed from the mid-200s to the low-400s). 2) did something change in the TR software algorithm for reading SRM data? 3) am I doing something wrong? 4) any suggestion on how to fix it?
@John. My SRM NEVER agrees with TR. It seems at one time it was close but now is always off by 2 or three watts. Not the extreme variance that you are off though. I always just go by my SRM because I know it is calibrated correctly. You are right about the SRM power calculation. That's what makes it so accurate, It is processing the data much more frequently. I know Nate real well and will reach out to him.
Another thought. Does the SRM have to be factory recalibrated because you changed rings? I am not sure. Here is what SRM says and your OSos are solid right
q
Can I change chainrings without affecting the slope of my PowerMeter?
a
Yes, with the exception of solid TT rings. If you are changing to or from a solid TT ring, it is recommended that you have your PowerMeter re-calibrated.
Do not over-tighten chainring bolts. Please follow the correct torque specifications.
One more thing. I have had a big problem with the 810's not reading my SRM. I have two at any time (anal and like to have a back up) and I have gone through three units since they came out where the 810 will find the SRM yet never read the power numbers or lose the numbers every 20 seconds or so. I never ever had this problem with the 800.
Do you like the osos? I have q rings and was toying with putting the new Qxls on my new bike
Question for the group- Following up on John's question got me thinking. This is my second Out Season with Trainer Road and really enjoy it. I have a Computrainer sync with the TR but.I have a SRM powermeter on the bike. My power numbers are off by about 20 watts with the Computrainer/TR being much higher. I do the calibrations and let the tires warm up and then calibrate the Computrainer but still a big delta on the numbers. I sue 5 second averaging for both. I figured I use the TR numbers (because they were 20 watts higher but as long as the numbers were consistent then I would be OK. But I liked the Computrainer being sync with the TR program in the ERG mode because the resistance would change automatically with the program and I would just do the work. Simple. When the bar graph went up the resistance went up and so on.
I could sync the TR readouts with the SRM powermeter. If I did sync the TR program with the SRM, would I have to use the slope mode and manually adjust the resistance during the workouts? What would the group recommend?
Aaron - Just a shot in the dark here, but have you requested and been granted access to the EN team on TR? If not, you need to do that. If I recall correctly, you can click on the Teams button, search for EnsuranceNation, and then there is a "request to join" (or something like that) tab that you click on. Once you do that, the request goes into the ether and is (hopefully) granted by whomever has the power. It took a few days for me to get the request granted. Once granted, then try to do the resync workouts again and you should have them.
Not sure if this is truly a TR question or maybe a question for the EN coaches (if I have to tweak my FTP or workouts in some way).
I've been using TR for months now. riding the same tri bike, same trainer, same profile settings, etc. My problem is, based on what my heartrate zones are supposed to be and comparing that to "virtual power" on TR (because I only have a speed/cadence sensor and no actual powermeter), my heart rate never gets to the correct zone even when I'm hitting my numbers on the rides. So, if that doesn't make any sense, if I follow my target power, my heart rate doesn't seem to be getting high enough. Can anyone offer advice on this? Should I disregard heart rate and follow the target and actual power numbers (which honestly doesn't seem to be overly difficult for z4 and/or z5) or try and match my heart rate to the proper zones, in which case I'm uber exceeding my target power so my rides look like a mess if you look at my graphs.
Is my trainer possibly the problem? I have a CycleOps Fluid 2 and 650wheels.
@AR Not a coach but very intimate with TR. Did you do the FTP test on TR to establish your benchmark numbers? If so you should be using those virtual power numbers for your TR rides. Hear rate is a funny thing on the bike and while important the power numbers are the most important.
@Ray Yes, I did my FT test on TR with all the same equipment/settings I'm using now. I've been using it for a while now, but somehow the virtual power target just doesn't seem hard enough for what the training plan says. I know it's not that I'm just in that great of shape already because I don't even have to get into my big chain ring to hit my z4/z5 power. From my z1 to z5 is only a matter of 5 or 6 gears with cadence always 90-100. Don't get me wrong, the workouts are not EASY, but I would think Z5 intervals would be VERY difficult and I don't want to leave the OS thinking I did all the work and actually have been doing it all wrong (or not hard enough). THANKS.
@AR Do you have TR setup correctly. ie defined the trainer and proper tire pressure and resistance and all that good stuff. What are trainer are you using. If it is a resistance trainer you can spin and spin and spin and if you don't have the resistance up the power will not be there to he heart rate exertion.
Were you fried when you did the FTP test? Do you have Heart rate numbers from the test?
Glad to try and help you so let me know. These workouts are very important and it is a shame to waste them.
@Ray-- Thanks for the feedback. Would be great if you could ask Nate. Just weird that it matched for me for so long and now it doesn't. I really like the Osymetric Rings on my P5, but I have to be "delicate" with the up-shift (I have D/A Di2). I found that in Ironman, I shouldn't be doing hard or crazy shifts anyways and if I drop my chain to the outside that I simply pedal for a rotation, downshift then upshift it pops back on, so no big deal. I have Ultegra Di2 on my SuperSix Road bike And it will also upshift "okay" when I'm on my rollers, but not quite as good outside. I'm a big guy, so if I'm bike racing, I am always desperately trying to hold on to the group in the climbs, so at the crest of the hills I need to shift hard and fast and immediately be on the power to try to catch back onto the group of little scrawny guys as I crest and bomb back down the hill. This means I can't take the risk of a missed shift or dropped chain. I actually just ordered the Q-rings yesterday to see if they will get me "close" to the Osymetric ones but shift better I didn't go with QXL because I feared the bigger oval might be harder to shift. We'll see... when I originally bought the Osymetric chainrings, I called SRM to setup sending my unit back for re-calibration and they said it wasn't necessary. They actually said that Bradley Wiggins was recently at their lab and they swapped back and forth between the Osymetric and round rings dozens of times in testing and determined that re-calibration was NOT necessary... My "butt feel" is that it seems about right before and after, but I "think" I put out more power on the OS chainrings. Maybe it's mental, but it just feels better.
@Jim-- You could just change your FTP in TR by 20W and your Computrainer "should" give you the proper resistance for your workout. BUT, this will force you to look at the smaller number while you train, boo.
FWIW, I "Think" my Garmin is the right number from the "seat of my pants feel". I tried to do an ad-hoc FTP test on Monday morning (stupid because I forgot I had "just" changed to the round rings). I blew myself up spectacularly trying to hit the numbers on the TR screen. It wasn't until partway into my 20' set when I couldn't hold the numbers that I thought I should that I noticed my Garmin was reading way higher. The next time you want to blow yourself up on an FTP test, target ~20W higher than you should for the first 10 mins of your 20' interval...
@JW I emailed Nate. I will let you know. I love the q rings. I have had them on all my bikes for the last 10 years or even since they first came out. The Osys scare me because of all the derailing. It is hilly where I ride! Weird that SRM says no calibration needed yet the website says yes
If you are in the NOS and it "still" seems "easy, then retest. You can basically substitute the 5/10/20 FTP test on any tuesday bike workout. You will still be getting in a great workout and it will give you a new number.
Re: TR specifically, MAKE SURE you have the same tire pressure and trainer wheel settings exactly the same EVERY TIME since you are using Virtual Power. And like Ray said, the Power is way more important than the HR.
@Ray-- Thanks. Agree that it is weird about the calibration. I read the same thing on the website which is why I tried to send it back. Don't know why they would have told me that if they didn't mean it because I was perfectly willing to pay them decent $$ for the calibration process... But like I said, always "felt" about right for where I thought I should have been, so don't think it is an issue...
Not sure if this is truly a TR question or maybe a question for the EN coaches (if I have to tweak my FTP or workouts in some way).
I've been using TR for months now. riding the same tri bike, same trainer, same profile settings, etc. My problem is, based on what my heartrate zones are supposed to be and comparing that to "virtual power" on TR (because I only have a speed/cadence sensor and no actual powermeter), my heart rate never gets to the correct zone even when I'm hitting my numbers on the rides. So, if that doesn't make any sense, if I follow my target power, my heart rate doesn't seem to be getting high enough. Can anyone offer advice on this? Should I disregard heart rate and follow the target and actual power numbers (which honestly doesn't seem to be overly difficult for z4 and/or z5) or try and match my heart rate to the proper zones, in which case I'm uber exceeding my target power so my rides look like a mess if you look at my graphs.
Is my trainer possibly the problem? I have a CycleOps Fluid 2 and 650wheels.
Any suggestions would help. Thanks.
My 2 ¢: You should consider yourself an HR athlete, not a power athlete. The TR "Virtual Power" readings are fun, and another metric to focus on, but at the end of the day, when you get out onto the road, you are not going to have those numbers to work with, you are going to be training and racing with HR only. So IGNORE the power numbers when deciding how hard to work. Test and train following our coaches' advice to Heart Rate athletes. The power zones in EN assume that you are using an actual power meter, and will have one on race day, which you won't.
FWIW, those of us who are "Power" athletes on the bike are ignoring the HR numbers we see during workouts, that is, we are not using the HR numbers to adjust our effort level. And we probably notice a similar discrepancy between the EN "zones" for HR and power, if we have bothered to fill in the HR blank on the calculation page. For that reason, I leave HR blank when recording my test results; maybe you should consider leaving the power space blank when recording test results, than you wouldn't be confronted with the seeming discrepancy.
So you will appear to be exceeding your TR power targets, but that doesn't matter. You're trying to train to Rich and Patrick's expectations, not TR's.
Interesting observation. I have never seen the caveat in any EN talk about TR. Are you saying that anyone who does not have a power meter should ignore power and go with HR? It is one of the biggest selling points that TR espouses. Train with power without the cost of a power meter.
Even with power I will throw the numbers away when I go outside and retest. The virtual numbers are a number to train to for this purpose. I think the problem for her is her setup.
Interesting observation. I have never seen the caveat in any EN talk about TR. Are you saying that anyone who does not have a power meter should ignore power and go with HR? It is one of the biggest selling points that TR espouses. Train with power without the cost of a power meter.
Even with power I will throw the numbers away when I go outside and retest. The virtual numbers are a number to train to for this purpose. I think the problem for her is her setup.
What I'm really saying is look at the big picture. the purpose of the OS is to get ready to race long course tris on the road outdoors. Later on in the year, there will be training rides outside, and of course the races are outdoors. In those environments, there will be no TR or virtual power. So for someone without a PM, HR will be the metric used to train and race. My suggestion to ignore the virtual power is based on that line of thinking.
For aspiring roadies, and someone who is not needing to be very careful about effort level during the cycling portion of a long distance tri, then I can see that the virtual power could be a big selling point. For someone trying to get ready for HIM or IM , I worry it may be a distraction which detracts from both effective training, and learning how to execute well on race day. It's an effective way to train, for sure, but what happens when it disappears come April? Then you'd have to go through an adjustment phase to re-calibrate yourself to using HR, at a time when you just want to be focusing on 12 weeks of prepping for your HIM or IM.
Someone with a big cycling and/or racing background could probably make that adjustment without difficulty, but someone relatively new to disciplined, intensity based training might find it a delaying distraction.
<p>@Al</p> <p>Interesting observation. I have never seen the caveat in any EN talk about TR. Are you saying that anyone who does not have a power meter should ignore power and go with HR? It is one of the biggest selling points that TR espouses. Train with power without the cost of a power meter. </p> <p>Even with power I will throw the numbers away when I go outside and retest. The virtual numbers are a number to train to for this purpose. I think the problem for her is her setup.</p>
<p>What I'm really saying is look at the big picture. the purpose of the OS is to get ready to race long course tris on the road outdoors. Later on in the year, there will be training rides outside, and of course the races are outdoors. In those environments, there will be no TR or virtual power. So for someone without a PM, HR will be the metric used to train and race. My suggestion to ignore the virtual power is based on that line of thinking.</p> <p>For aspiring roadies, and someone who is not needing to be very careful about effort level during the cycling portion of a long distance tri, then I can see that the virtual power could be a big selling point. For someone trying to get ready for HIM or IM , I worry it may be a distraction which detracts from both effective training, and learning how to execute well on race day. It's an effective way to train, for sure, but what happens when it disappears come April? Then you'd have to go through an adjustment phase to re-calibrate yourself to using HR, at a time when you just want to be focusing on 12 weeks of prepping for your HIM or IM.</p> <p>Someone with a big cycling and/or racing background could probably make that adjustment without difficulty, but someone relatively new to disciplined, intensity based training might find it a delaying distraction.</p>
I actually agree with Ray on this one. I think having the benefit of Power training without the expense of a Powermeter is one of the great things about TR. And I know many people who started with TR then liked training with power so much that it convinced them to figure out a way to get a Powermeter for outside. I think the intense OS workouts are a disciplined approach to working very hard, measuring gains through testing to work hard some more. This helps us to quickly build power in the winter months. Then when we head outside in the winter, we layer some "far" underneath this fast. In the spring and summer is where we focus on dialing in race paces and execution. The more precise we can be keeping ourselves honest during the longer interval sets in the winter, the better chance we have of improving.
Now the caveat for the original poster is that if the tool (TR) in this case is holding you back more than it should (or not calibrated properly to the test, etc.), then we need to reconsider the effectiveness of the tool or of the setup or the environment it is being used.
Thanks so much for all the discussion, thoughts and feedback. To answer some of your questions, yes, I have all my settings in my profile defined properly. I used the 650 circ setting, the same tri bike, the same tension and the same tire pressure for my FTP test. I am in NOS Wk 11. I have been doing the TR rides and some rides with groups of friends and asked them for opinions too. It may be that my trainer is not suitable for 650 wheels b/c I can not get it any tighter on my wheel. I will have to play with a few of these (too many) factors and see what sense I can make of it all.
I guess the bottom line for me is I'm riding alot more than before and I'm getting stronger. Regardless of what the numbers say, it's working. I just don't know exactly to what degree. I will soon repeat my FTP test and see what happens there.
I do pay close attention to my HR and although I'm often exceeding my target FTP, I am getting a good understanding of what power and what HR go together. Maybe I just need to break down and buy a power meter. Most of my friends here don't have them and I know it's not absolutely necessary, but would be a nice bonus. I still have plenty of time to get outside and get my real world bike legs on. I plan to ride the course a few times prior and that is the only thing that will really give me the true feeling of how fit I am for that particular course.
Thanks again! I'll let you know if I figure out the exact science behind it all.
If you are serious about getting better a power meter is a big investment but it will really help you get better. It is the secret weapon on the bike. They are just so darn expensive. Some folks seem to be having good luck with several of the new pm's that recently came out like Stages or the Garmin vector.
What model cycleops trainer do you have? They all should accommodate 650 wheels. you should be around 1920 to 1940 depending on the tires size
I noticed on your device settings on TR you are using (Beta) 1Up USA CPR-A-2000 6 Pockets as the device. What is that? You should be using a Cycleops device. The drop down menu is weird and you may not realize there are more trainer choices. I bet that is your problem!!!!! Your Thursday workout shows an FTP of 225. You will be winning your AG if that is the case! TR creates the virtual power numbers from the specific trainer model so you have to tell it the one you are using. I bet this fixes your problem but if it doesn't reach out to this awesome guy from TR he might be able to help you nail down the issue from a TR setup standpoint. He will respond asap his name is Alex Kizisnotifications-support@trainerroad.zendesk.com
I just searched Trainer Road for the EN team and was not able to find it. Please let me know what to do so I can join the team.
Thanks!
You're right - the obivious route: on the main Trainer Road screen, click on your name. On your page, click on the "Teams" menu button, near the top in the middle. On that page, find the "Browse Teams" button towards the left, click on that? The search option and the list of teams does not offer Endurance Nation as an option, although the team exists, and we have 213 members. The TR guys need to fix this, it may be because our team was set up first as a "special relationship".
Comments
@John: Super awesome. That worked. Thanks!
Trouble with SRM numbers on Garmin not matching TrainerRoad...
I use an SRM Powermeter and had some problems in the past with readouts. This has been fine or months then this past weekend it started up again. A little background. I use Osymetric chainrings. They work great on my tri bike but shift like crap on my road bike. So this past weekend I swapped them out for my round ones and torqued the bolts to spec. (Changing chainrings usually changes the 'calibration' in a pretty major way.
My routine for using TR is always the same. Spin my crank to wake up the SRM, leave the crank in the 3 o'clock - 9 o'clock position. Turn my garmin 510 on. Then wake up my computer and turn TR on. I "calibrate" my 510 and check that against the initial calibration on TR (they both read 428). Then I do my workout. TR was consistently reading about 20W lower than my garmin. Doh. It "seems" like a bigger difference at higher power numbers but I haven't done detailed analysis on the actual files yet to see if it is linear or not. The ~20W was when doing sets around 300W.
I updated with the newest version of TR and got out my old Garmin 500. Redid all of the calibrations and the initial calibration numbers all matched. Then while pedaling my 510 and my 500 gave exactly the same readouts and TR was still much lower.
I understand that for Powertap or even Quarq they simply read the ANT+ signal, so they can't really be different. But I think the SRM produces some real time calibration numbers that are constantly changing (my simplification). This was a problem for me when TrainerRoad first came out, but it has been flawless for me for the past yr with my 'other' chainrings. Provided I am meticulous about the startup sequence.
1) Was this a coincidence that it happened when I changed my chainrings (my garmin calibration number changed from the mid-200s to the low-400s).
2) did something change in the TR software algorithm for reading SRM data?
3) am I doing something wrong?
4) any suggestion on how to fix it?
@John. My SRM NEVER agrees with TR. It seems at one time it was close but now is always off by 2 or three watts. Not the extreme variance that you are off though. I always just go by my SRM because I know it is calibrated correctly. You are right about the SRM power calculation. That's what makes it so accurate, It is processing the data much more frequently. I know Nate real well and will reach out to him.
Another thought. Does the SRM have to be factory recalibrated because you changed rings? I am not sure. Here is what SRM says and your OSos are solid right
q
Can I change chainrings without affecting the slope of my PowerMeter?
@John
One more thing. I have had a big problem with the 810's not reading my SRM. I have two at any time (anal and like to have a back up) and I have gone through three units since they came out where the 810 will find the SRM yet never read the power numbers or lose the numbers every 20 seconds or so. I never ever had this problem with the 800.
Do you like the osos? I have q rings and was toying with putting the new Qxls on my new bike
Question for the group- Following up on John's question got me thinking. This is my second Out Season with Trainer Road and really enjoy it. I have a Computrainer sync with the TR but.I have a SRM powermeter on the bike. My power numbers are off by about 20 watts with the Computrainer/TR being much higher. I do the calibrations and let the tires warm up and then calibrate the Computrainer but still a big delta on the numbers. I sue 5 second averaging for both. I figured I use the TR numbers (because they were 20 watts higher
but as long as the numbers were consistent then I would be OK. But I liked the Computrainer being sync with the TR program in the ERG mode because the resistance would change automatically with the program and I would just do the work. Simple. When the bar graph went up the resistance went up and so on.
I could sync the TR readouts with the SRM powermeter. If I did sync the TR program with the SRM, would I have to use the slope mode and manually adjust the resistance during the workouts? What would the group recommend?
Thanks.
Aaron - Just a shot in the dark here, but have you requested and been granted access to the EN team on TR? If not, you need to do that. If I recall correctly, you can click on the Teams button, search for EnsuranceNation, and then there is a "request to join" (or something like that) tab that you click on. Once you do that, the request goes into the ether and is (hopefully) granted by whomever has the power. It took a few days for me to get the request granted. Once granted, then try to do the resync workouts again and you should have them.
Good luck.
JFH
Not sure if this is truly a TR question or maybe a question for the EN coaches (if I have to tweak my FTP or workouts in some way).
I've been using TR for months now. riding the same tri bike, same trainer, same profile settings, etc. My problem is, based on what my heartrate zones are supposed to be and comparing that to "virtual power" on TR (because I only have a speed/cadence sensor and no actual powermeter), my heart rate never gets to the correct zone even when I'm hitting my numbers on the rides. So, if that doesn't make any sense, if I follow my target power, my heart rate doesn't seem to be getting high enough. Can anyone offer advice on this? Should I disregard heart rate and follow the target and actual power numbers (which honestly doesn't seem to be overly difficult for z4 and/or z5) or try and match my heart rate to the proper zones, in which case I'm uber exceeding my target power so my rides look like a mess if you look at my graphs.
Is my trainer possibly the problem? I have a CycleOps Fluid 2 and 650wheels.
Any suggestions would help. Thanks.
@Ray Yes, I did my FT test on TR with all the same equipment/settings I'm using now. I've been using it for a while now, but somehow the virtual power target just doesn't seem hard enough for what the training plan says. I know it's not that I'm just in that great of shape already because I don't even have to get into my big chain ring to hit my z4/z5 power. From my z1 to z5 is only a matter of 5 or 6 gears with cadence always 90-100. Don't get me wrong, the workouts are not EASY, but I would think Z5 intervals would be VERY difficult and I don't want to leave the OS thinking I did all the work and actually have been doing it all wrong (or not hard enough). THANKS.
@AR Do you have TR setup correctly. ie defined the trainer and proper tire pressure and resistance and all that good stuff. What are trainer are you using. If it is a resistance trainer you can spin and spin and spin and if you don't have the resistance up the power will not be there to he heart rate exertion.
Were you fried when you did the FTP test? Do you have Heart rate numbers from the test?
Glad to try and help you so let me know. These workouts are very important and it is a shame to waste them.
@Jim-- You could just change your FTP in TR by 20W and your Computrainer "should" give you the proper resistance for your workout. BUT, this will force you to look at the smaller number while you train, boo.
FWIW, I "Think" my Garmin is the right number from the "seat of my pants feel". I tried to do an ad-hoc FTP test on Monday morning (stupid because I forgot I had "just" changed to the round rings). I blew myself up spectacularly trying to hit the numbers on the TR screen. It wasn't until partway into my 20' set when I couldn't hold the numbers that I thought I should that I noticed my Garmin was reading way higher. The next time you want to blow yourself up on an FTP test, target ~20W higher than you should for the first 10 mins of your 20' interval...
If you are in the NOS and it "still" seems "easy, then retest. You can basically substitute the 5/10/20 FTP test on any tuesday bike workout. You will still be getting in a great workout and it will give you a new number.
Re: TR specifically, MAKE SURE you have the same tire pressure and trainer wheel settings exactly the same EVERY TIME since you are using Virtual Power. And like Ray said, the Power is way more important than the HR.
My 2 ¢: You should consider yourself an HR athlete, not a power athlete. The TR "Virtual Power" readings are fun, and another metric to focus on, but at the end of the day, when you get out onto the road, you are not going to have those numbers to work with, you are going to be training and racing with HR only. So IGNORE the power numbers when deciding how hard to work. Test and train following our coaches' advice to Heart Rate athletes. The power zones in EN assume that you are using an actual power meter, and will have one on race day, which you won't.
FWIW, those of us who are "Power" athletes on the bike are ignoring the HR numbers we see during workouts, that is, we are not using the HR numbers to adjust our effort level. And we probably notice a similar discrepancy between the EN "zones" for HR and power, if we have bothered to fill in the HR blank on the calculation page. For that reason, I leave HR blank when recording my test results; maybe you should consider leaving the power space blank when recording test results, than you wouldn't be confronted with the seeming discrepancy.
So you will appear to be exceeding your TR power targets, but that doesn't matter. You're trying to train to Rich and Patrick's expectations, not TR's.
@Al
Interesting observation. I have never seen the caveat in any EN talk about TR. Are you saying that anyone who does not have a power meter should ignore power and go with HR? It is one of the biggest selling points that TR espouses. Train with power without the cost of a power meter.
Even with power I will throw the numbers away when I go outside and retest. The virtual numbers are a number to train to for this purpose. I think the problem for her is her setup.
What I'm really saying is look at the big picture. the purpose of the OS is to get ready to race long course tris on the road outdoors. Later on in the year, there will be training rides outside, and of course the races are outdoors. In those environments, there will be no TR or virtual power. So for someone without a PM, HR will be the metric used to train and race. My suggestion to ignore the virtual power is based on that line of thinking.
For aspiring roadies, and someone who is not needing to be very careful about effort level during the cycling portion of a long distance tri, then I can see that the virtual power could be a big selling point. For someone trying to get ready for HIM or IM , I worry it may be a distraction which detracts from both effective training, and learning how to execute well on race day. It's an effective way to train, for sure, but what happens when it disappears come April? Then you'd have to go through an adjustment phase to re-calibrate yourself to using HR, at a time when you just want to be focusing on 12 weeks of prepping for your HIM or IM.
Someone with a big cycling and/or racing background could probably make that adjustment without difficulty, but someone relatively new to disciplined, intensity based training might find it a delaying distraction.
I actually agree with Ray on this one. I think having the benefit of Power training without the expense of a Powermeter is one of the great things about TR. And I know many people who started with TR then liked training with power so much that it convinced them to figure out a way to get a Powermeter for outside. I think the intense OS workouts are a disciplined approach to working very hard, measuring gains through testing to work hard some more. This helps us to quickly build power in the winter months. Then when we head outside in the winter, we layer some "far" underneath this fast. In the spring and summer is where we focus on dialing in race paces and execution. The more precise we can be keeping ourselves honest during the longer interval sets in the winter, the better chance we have of improving.
Now the caveat for the original poster is that if the tool (TR) in this case is holding you back more than it should (or not calibrated properly to the test, etc.), then we need to reconsider the effectiveness of the tool or of the setup or the environment it is being used.
@John, Ray, Al,
Thanks so much for all the discussion, thoughts and feedback. To answer some of your questions, yes, I have all my settings in my profile defined properly. I used the 650 circ setting, the same tri bike, the same tension and the same tire pressure for my FTP test. I am in NOS Wk 11. I have been doing the TR rides and some rides with groups of friends and asked them for opinions too. It may be that my trainer is not suitable for 650 wheels b/c I can not get it any tighter on my wheel. I will have to play with a few of these (too many) factors and see what sense I can make of it all.
I guess the bottom line for me is I'm riding alot more than before and I'm getting stronger. Regardless of what the numbers say, it's working. I just don't know exactly to what degree. I will soon repeat my FTP test and see what happens there.
I do pay close attention to my HR and although I'm often exceeding my target FTP, I am getting a good understanding of what power and what HR go together. Maybe I just need to break down and buy a power meter. Most of my friends here don't have them and I know it's not absolutely necessary, but would be a nice bonus. I still have plenty of time to get outside and get my real world bike legs on. I plan to ride the course a few times prior and that is the only thing that will really give me the true feeling of how fit I am for that particular course.
Thanks again! I'll let you know if I figure out the exact science behind it all.
@AR
If you are serious about getting better a power meter is a big investment but it will really help you get better. It is the secret weapon on the bike. They are just so darn expensive. Some folks seem to be having good luck with several of the new pm's that recently came out like Stages or the Garmin vector.
What model cycleops trainer do you have? They all should accommodate 650 wheels. you should be around 1920 to 1940 depending on the tires size
I noticed on your device settings on TR you are using (Beta) 1Up USA CPR-A-2000 6 Pockets as the device. What is that? You should be using a Cycleops device. The drop down menu is weird and you may not realize there are more trainer choices. I bet that is your problem!!!!! Your Thursday workout shows an FTP of 225. You will be winning your AG if that is the case! TR creates the virtual power numbers from the specific trainer model so you have to tell it the one you are using. I bet this fixes your problem but if it doesn't reach out to this awesome guy from TR he might be able to help you nail down the issue from a TR setup standpoint. He will respond asap his name is Alex Kizis notifications-support@trainerroad.zendesk.com
Thanks!